User Posts: admin

I've been in this industry for so long and seen so many crazy things. After talking with so many people who buy the wrong tub or pay too much for a one I ...

The ratings you see on a Rating site reviews can be anything from anyone and most of the time if it is really bad review or a really good review it's ...

The Base of a hot tub is what it sits on and there are a lot of options from basic vapor barrier to ABS bottom pans and Fiberglass trays. Scare tactics like ...

Circulation pumps also called "Hush Pumps", and "Silent Flow" pumps are sold as an advantage and often as an upgrade on Hot Tubs. The Pitch is that they are ...

Every manufacturer has a miracle system that will make owning a hot tub easier, and healthier and safer. In this Video, we take a quick look at the ...

Great Hot Tubs or great marketing. You can't have them both and you can't relax in a brochure. There are 2 business models for Hot Tub manufacturers and ...

How Regular Hot Tub Sessions Relieve Arthritis Symptoms   Arthritis affects upwards of 350 million people worldwide, around 40 million of which are ...

There does not seem to have been any major modifications to the shell designs in decades including the old pressure filter housings and even floor suctions ...

USA Swimming, the National Governing Body for the sport of swimming in the United States announced the renewal of its partnership with Master Spas as an ...

It's no secret that recently a large number of millennials have been purchasing a lot more hot tubs than thy have in recent history. With this recent trend, ...

Browsing All Comments By: admin
  1. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Sorry Eric,

    This site is getting away from me, it used to be my personal rant space but now it’s something entirely different πŸ™‚

    I need staff to help but I haven’t figured out how to monetize it and not loose the authentic real approach! if I sell my soul for the money (offers every week into the lower mid six digit frame) then the site is nothing but another discussion forum or other bullshit site, sometimes I just need a day or two off πŸ™‚

    Hydropool and arctic I don’t really like for the similar reasons. They both do a few thing good and a bunch of stuff cheaply and spend a scad on the spin marketing, branding and BS. like Hrdropool has a good parts list but insulation and old school filtration systems and floor suctions, reflective insulation systems??? inexpensive solutions that are not good tech.

    Arctic is even worse, the cheapest parts you can buy, one of the cheapest insulation systems out there, no clamps on the plumbing lines and loads and loads of spin pitches and brand marketing.

    let me see what you have out there.

  2. Reply
    admin July 4, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    The Hybrid is a trademark gimmick that has the pumps outside the spa and is bad tech…

    what you are refering to is actually a better definition of “Hybrid” but usually called full foam with the pumps under the spa which is the best.

    The heat reclamation is pretty straight forward.

    The Venturis present on every spa and the ozone system always draw in air and inject that into the water so if the intakes are in the motor area the heat from the pumps gets injected directly into the water. it’s funny because the guys selling the cheap Perimeter insulation systems never talk about this because it really destroys their whole pitch… On one hand they claim that all the “trapped heat” is helping but they ignore the fact that the air is always being circulated when the pump is running which by the laws of physics means it is pumped out of the perimieter and into the tub and then out under the cover. Meanwhile, the outside cold air has to be drawn in to replace the cavity air… it’s why the whole pitch about the air space being an insulator is so non-science… in a thermopane window the intentionally remove the air and or fill it space with nothing or a captive agent with a high R value and then it is sealed so the air can not move… once the air can move beteen the zones it becomes a mover of heat, not an insulator….

  3. Reply
    admin January 18, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

  4. Reply
    admin October 26, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

  5. Reply
    admin October 21, 2016 at 2:49 am

    Visitor Rating: 4 Stars

  6. Reply
    admin October 21, 2016 at 1:52 am

    Visitor Rating: 1 Stars

  7. Reply
    admin September 8, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Hi

    I am not aware of the brand Dr. Wellness.

    Ask the questions…

    Are the joints glued and clamped?
    What brand name are the jets, pumps and electronic controls? (you want ideally Balboa and waterways and you want threaded jets)
    Is the shell supported underneath by props and supports? (if there are props and supports it usually indicated a thin shell although they will pitch it as a bonus)

  8. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    Hi Andrew.

    Twilight standard lighting package is already enough, its way above most spas standard lighting and better than a lot fo upgraded lighting packages.

    I find the extra lighting upgrade on this line too much, it makes the spa just too damn bright. I actually had a customer insist on ordering it then had us disconnect it for him πŸ™‚

    see one at night with standard lighting… its already great

  9. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Dr. Welness is not a brand I would be seriously considering.

    A lot of gimmicks and an insulation system that would never meet code for a house in your area.

    They use a Goofy parts list, although I heard they might offer balboa control and heating systems, but then radiant barrier insulation systems were basically banned in the housing industry in the northern states int he 80’s and all of sudden 20 years later its the miracle insulation for hot tubs…

    Then those friction heaters, that tech is so ass backward it’s not even funny. first electrical immersion heaters are super efficient near to 100% of the energy that goes into those heaters get into the water as heat energy. friction heaters, on the other hand, are horribly inefficient… think about the progression…

    1. we take electricity and convert it to mechanical energy in the electric motor inefficient as hell
    2. We transfer that energy into water pressure with the pump and get big losses in the transfer
    3. then we transfer that energy back into mechanical energy of friction… again huge loss
    4. then we transfer the mechanical energy into heat… Bonkers… this is just bullshit science to try and create a unique selling feature.

  10. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:32 am

    The biggest end to satisfaction is timely and accurate information, unless these guys specialize in long distance customer care stay away the learning curve is too high…

  11. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:22 am

    Black pine in Edmonds does artesian, and Seattle hot tub company does marquis which are both good brands.

    the west coast is funny, no one is buying from brick and mortar retailers out there, there are dozens of independent service guy there because most of the tubs sold out there are from events, online, and out of state cause you can save a ton…

  12. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Hi Mark

    a dealer that has been selling these for a long time will not have any issues with service because they know the particular nuances of the brand.

    The bullfrog has a better parts list for sure than the other two.

    Typically HS has a lot of service requests, we did an evaluation of the discussion forums and in insanely high number of request for service are for this brand, way more than would be explained by market share for sure.

    We had about 20 hot springs around us from a defunct dealer, it was a nightmare…. the auxiliary control panel failed 100% and the customer just gave up and stopped putting them back in. the heater relay boards failed allot and we had leak issues, we literally had a customer cut one in half because they could not get it out to fix it and the insulation and lack of access made it nearly impossible to service.

    We stopped servicing them because it was a pain in the ass to get parts, had to charge a fortune for parts to the end user and frankly, the brand negatively impacted our customer care reputation so we dissociated ourselves from the brand entirely. Its critical with these goofy parts brands to have a solid long-term dealer or you are going to be in a world of hurt because almost no one will work on these except an HS dealer.

    There is one absolute here… I would never even consider a brand that did not use Balboa heating and control systems… they own some key patents that really set them in a class fo thier own… they are expensive but the failure rate is low and repair easy, reliable, and cheaper then the goofy parts…

    gravel compacted is fine, we typically do patio stone base, cheap cheerful and stable.

    Then there is the area you live in… dude, there are hardly and retailers on the ground there anymore, too high of a coat for brick and mortar locations it adds too much to the price and most of the west coast is not buying from retailers anymore its all from out of state, online and events. the good side of this is there are tons of independent service guys out there I have 14 registered to the site within 50 miles of you. these resources on the ground let you go to any brand using good OEM parts and get great service.

    if you insist on going retail try these guys, but remember man, proximity does nothing to help you… it’s about information… the actual on the ground service is easy and reliable in areas like this with so many service guys around.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.6View in Google Maps

  13. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:04 am

    Hi Robert

    I have a limelight arriving here Monday I’m going to rip it apart and have a look but everything I hear is Great marketing, mid-grade tub and it would be a no go for me just on the parts… I like the insulation system. I also do not like the low flow circ systems, they really limit the amount of water you can filter and because they run 24/7 they don’t last long.

    There is a nordic dealer in Elmira but its pretty entry level and I have a Master guy out in Albany that I know has service guys down near you.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  14. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 10:54 am

    Marquis is a good brand, but they can be lacking in dealer support.

    My big issue with Sundance is the proprietary parts.

    Being in Vegas the obvious would be Artesian but there are already 2 locations.

  15. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 10:51 am

    Hi Daniel

    None of the systems are easily hackable, but they are all to some extent but I need to issue the obligatory warning that hotter temperatures are dangerous and you void your warranty on the whole tub and it is not recommended πŸ™‚

    Lights can be too much, I find if you get too much light it’s no longer a nice ambient light but an in your face glaring light.

    While you can fit a transducer to the shell I find with a good sub base box you get lots of shell amplification anyway and you can always fit a transducer tot he shell.

    The factory for Marquis is there though you might get a second factory direct and htey are a good overall spa.

    Marquis Hot Tubs
    Details from Google Maps
    7170, 8775 SW Cascade Ave # A6, Beaverton, OR 97008
    http://www.marquishottubs.com
    +1 503-684-6110
    4.8View in Google Maps

  16. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    the haul away is likely around $500 with dumping charges, price wise the ts stuff anything under $12k would be good, and the LSX should be $2500 more… hard to say for sure in that market west coast is a pricey place to do business.

  17. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    Easy just start using it πŸ™‚

    Ill email you a tip sheet…

  18. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    Hi Marie

    The CSC tub and the Hydropool both suffer some pretty serious issues mainly insulation and shell on the Hydropool and insulation and jets on the CSC. here is a Hydropool review and I have to say I am not a fan of this line at all. the CSC would be a better bet.

    Go swim in the H2X, flow rates are great, depth is almost a foot more water depth. I train daily and will race in the Canadian nationals I swim my 20-minute workout at about 60% of the max flow in my trainer 15 deep and the build, parts, and insulation are better than those other two.

    Try this guy.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  19. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    Hi Elizabeth.

    The Master or the Marquis are good options, if therapy massage is important the Twilight definitely kills the marquis for performance, the 3.5″ neck jets flow crazy water and the diverter system for the big monster jets make it just a monster… I love those massive jets in the footwell, I use them for legs and lower back and float over them for shoulders the thing is just a massage monster.

    CSC is a mixed bag, the jetting is pretty pedestrian its certainly not a high-end therapy massage spa. the build is good and the electronics are good the jets a bad, they are an old style click in with the tabs that are notorious for failure. the insulation is pants.

    check out these guys:

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  20. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 9:53 am

    Of that group, the tidal fit is for sure a better Swim Spa. That being said there’s a massive difference between everything on the marketplace and the Master Spas h2x and Phelps lines. Not only is the jetting a lot better in the massage seating but also the flow rate through the swim area is a lot higher in both of these tubs.

    And again the depth is a big issue. Master deep lines get you up to your shoulders in water with an average of 15″ more water depth, most other brands get you up to your belly button it’s a big difference in the usability of the spa for resistance training, swimming, and general hacking around your pool.

    try these guys I know the have service guys in your area as well…

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  21. Reply
    admin July 17, 2018 at 11:12 am

    No problem and happy hot tubbing!

    hit me up if you have issues or need help

  22. Reply
    admin July 17, 2018 at 11:10 am

    Hi Andrew

    I don’t know the other two dealers, I do like PW I know the guy that runs it and some of the staff, it’s a safe buy. Also if your going hi end the Twilight is untouchable for performance by the other two brands

  23. Reply
    admin July 16, 2018 at 10:59 am

    Hi Mario

    Vap loc is cheap, get full foam or stay away and make sure the full foam is the type that does not harden. I would not spend the money on ozone, just use either spa marvel or aquafinesse.

    hit up this guy and look at the clarity and getaway hot tubs…

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  24. Reply
    admin July 16, 2018 at 10:53 am

    Rome pool and spas sell Marquis which is a decent build, I got a guy in Syracuse that sells tubs all across the state he has service guys in the area and he has been great, no issues and lots of customers he has helped.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  25. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:39 am

    Dude strong is just cheap .. this video is a strong spa…

    go see these guys, you are better off with a getaway hot tub.

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.1View in Google Maps

  26. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:36 am

    Hi Laura

    The Marquis for sure, the rest are not anywhere near as good build quality.

    But… you live in Fort Wayne that is the headquarters for master….

    I’ll put you in touch with the factory they might sell you a second direct…

  27. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:34 am

    Freestyle hot tubs are built by sunrise in Grimsby Ontario, run of the mill I would not shortlist it, Roxull insulation is approved for houses in 6″ thick batons in cold climates so why would 2″ be good in a hot tub??? if its not good enough in a highly regulated industry like home building than its simply not good enough for your house… plus steel frames are bad go timber it lasts longer and is as strong or stronger, has a higher thermal coefficient and is quieter…

    dude go see this guy he sells more hot tubs in Canada than anyone and he is right in your backyard…

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6, Canada
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  28. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:28 am

    Hi Michael

    Loungers are funny first-time buyers buy them second-time buyers don’t. in dryland they are great but when you are floating not so much…

    try these guys

    Home Innovations Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2001 NE-2, Lincoln, NE 68502
    spasonline.com
    +1 402-421-2922
    4.8View in Google Maps

  29. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 5:25 pm

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

    Rome Pool & Spas
    Approved: Marquis
    Not Approved: Saratoga
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1513 E Dominick St, Rome, NY 13440
    http://www.romepoolandspas.com
    +1 315-336-6900
    3.0View in Google Maps

  30. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    Hey Justin

    Coast is a good brand Im going to see the factory next week hopefully but they do all the right things.

    check these guys out as well they do master, one of my goto brands and i know the dealer…

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.1View in Google Maps

  31. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 5:21 pm

    Coast – CK Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    214 Rue Poirier, Saint-Eustache, QC J7R 6B1, Canada
    http://www.ckspas.com
    +1 514-701-4950
    4.1View in Google Maps

  32. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    Hi Robyn

    Sundance, Arctic, Hot Springs all have goofy proprietary parts that alone would make me run for the hills, watch this video for an explanation. personally I would not touch this spa with a 10-foot pole, esp the Arctic, cheap insulation, and no clamps on the plumbing on top of the goofy parts.

    Hydropool has good parts but a cradle supported shell and the insulation is a joke… this shit was basically banned in house construction in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulation in hot tubs πŸ™‚ read this review…

    The beachcomber is well built but overpriced and low performance, they don’t make anything in the hi-end massage spas so if this is something you want then it might not be a good fit… read this review…

    I have a person I know well personally in Calgary, she has service guys up in Edmonton and I know she sells a lot of spas up there. She carries the twilights they will be around the same price but super good build quality and stupid hi-end therapy massage. Wet test these spas and there is simply no comparison.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9, Canada
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  33. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 4:19 pm

    it’s a big deal… I never would carry a line that does not use a good parts list.

  34. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 4:18 pm

    Hi Holly

    The two pump systems are actually better performers, read this article about pumps.

    I’m not a fan of loungers, second-time buyers almost never buy them. The reason first-time buyers go to them is that we are dry land creatures and in the dry land a lounger is comfy, it supports our weight and is nice but when you are in the water you are floating… You don’t notice the lounger and it takes up a lot of space and yer if you are buoyant then it’s even worse.

    If it fits the 8.25 is the tub I sit in every day and I can have anything I want for free πŸ™‚

  35. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 11:46 am

    Hi Ian

    Hydropool is a mess… read this: It’s not a good deal on a great hot tub its just a cheap hot tub πŸ™‚

    let me see what I can find for you.

  36. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 9:31 am

    Hi Brian.

    I don’t have any dealers that I know there, there is an Artesian dealer and a Marquis dealer which are both solid brands, and there are 3 independent service guys registered there but I can’t speak for the quality of the dealer.

    there is a great dealer in Cleveland and I know they utilize the independents down there to service spas.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.6View in Google Maps

  37. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm

    Hi Tami

    Neither are on my good guy list for totally different reasons.

    Maxx because they just not well-built spas, cradle supported shells, no clamps on the plumbing and cheap insulation that would never meet code on a house…

    Hot springs because of so many reasons but especially the proprietary parts, you really need to stay away from the brand s that make parts that just fit their spas. especially in places like LA where almost all of the retailers are dead or dying and you will likely have just service centers soon, independent guys won’t fix these goofy brands.

  38. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    look at the H2x Line, well built reasonable money.

    try these guys

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  39. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    No good brands at all but the Calgary dealer have 3 or 4 independent service guys up there to choose from, she can take good care of you try:

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9, Canada
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  40. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:46 am

    cool jet but man I hate floor domes… you trip over the damn things they are a big hazard that’s why everyone ditched them 20 years ago, dangerous and makes the spa an annoyance i swear when i had a foot dome in my tub it drove me nuts and hurt me twice.

  41. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:40 am

    I like the brand in general, but the swimmers while built right are a little goofy. the available swim area is small with those big steps in the way and the water depth is shallow. flow rates are not great you will need a tether to swim in it. you need to wet test these things there are massive differences in performance. and get a deeper one, the water in that swimmer is up to your belly button, get a deep one its a huge difference.

    The upside is I have 10 independent service companies registered out there. so you can easily buy anything that uses good parts and builds standard and be assured good on the ground support.

    let me see if I can find you something…

  42. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Sundance was recently acquired by the jacuzzi group. It’s a total no go for me because it breaks the golden rule of staying with a good parts list and staying away from a proprietary parts list here is why…

  43. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:24 am

    try these guys, they have several lines with good small tubs

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU APPROVED RETAILER

    When you buy from a Hot Tub University approved retailer we will stand behind you if you ever need help.
    Ben and the guys at East Coast spas have helped out a ton of people coming to this site. They do it all, Great Spas, great price, good solid customer care and experience.

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    3.9View in Google Maps

  44. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:17 am

    Hey Larry.

    Ok so from a quality of build standpoint they are all good but… LSX is master highest of 5 lines, the Epic is marquis highest of 3 lines the South seas is entry level for Arteasian…

    these are not similar tubs, compare the Healthy Living or Clarity spas from Master with the Tropic seas, go to Artesians Platinum elite to compare with the other two.

    Side note of all the spas the LSX is the only one with a great neck and shoulder jet seat the other two use low flow jets they are useless for big muscle masses like shoulders/neck and again only the LSX has the big monster jets for feet… also stay away from foot domes, they are dangerous, most companies got rid of them a decade ago they are a major tripping hazard and are a bad idea.

    Sitting in a dry tub other than for sizing is a waste of time. comfort in dry land is the opposite of comfort in a water environment… you weight like 20lbs in the water you don’t notice any of the comfort things you notice in a dry tub…

  45. Reply
    admin July 11, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    Coast and beachcomber

  46. Reply
    admin July 11, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    Lol that is a company I co founded with a guy named Troy Labelle back in early 2000. Frankly it’s as good or better than half the stuff out there. The insulation is crap but so are most tubs and the jets are an older bad design with the little tabs on the side. But unless your going to coast, artesian, master, marquis then it’s as good as most

  47. Reply
    admin July 11, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    Get a spafrog. Same tech.

  48. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    The only guy I have is David’s, he is great and I’m sure can service you there.

    hit him up.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.1View in Google Maps

  49. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    we do them in about three hours i can send you a plumbing diagram, should be under $500

  50. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hey Alex

    NY is a mess I have a real hard time there I got a guy a ways from you but he has service guys all over he might be able to help you man…

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  51. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    that area is wack there is hardly any retailer there but on the plus side, there are literally 20 independent service companies within 50 miles of you πŸ™‚ pretty much guarantees you great service levels as long as you stay away from the brands with all the goofy proprietary parts…

    hit these guys up they rock…

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    View in Google Maps

  52. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    Hey, Chris, that’s great, information is power man!

    The base is fine especially if you are putting patio stones down… generally you want to remove the topsoil till you hit hard ground then put in crusher duat level it and tamp it and drop on patio stones. typically here we hit clay in 3-4″ so we put in 3-4″ of crusher, make sure the finished height is just above grade you do not want the pad to be the low spot…

  53. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Hi larry.

    its funny because we will in the more is a better world but I prefer the 8.25 here is why:

  54. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:11 pm

    Not really the jetting is a bit wack… sometimes they just throw jets in places to get the jet count up πŸ™‚

  55. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    refurbs depend entirely on the quality of the refurbisher a lot of possible issues but if done right they are fine.

    make sure they have a reputation, experience and a warranty

  56. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    They are adding it and I would order without it I am not a fan of the low flow circ systems.

  57. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    They are adding a circ pump I would order without it, circ pumps suck

  58. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    Hi Christine, check out the Therapool Deep… Built right insulated right great parts and there is a guy I know really well there called Griffin Ryan, he is a superstar, solid reliable and knowledgeable…

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  59. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    Man I got nothing for you up there, sorry

    the closest I have is this guy he might have service assets there ping him and see.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  60. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    I agree and 16k is batshit crazy, you are paying for their massive advertising and marketing and branding more than for any real quality…

    look at getaway spas Bar Harbour, 87×87″ 2 pump built well priced right…

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  61. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    No mass merchants are what they are, the product is too complex for them they screw it up again and again…

    South Seas is artesian, 3 years is standard, anyone offering you more than that has just built the extended warranty into the price, the guarantee is almost always more an indication of you paying for it than any quality issues Im pretty sure the south seas would sell you additional years for $200-$300 a year if you wanted it.

  62. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    sent a response by email let me know if you need anything else.

  63. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    Sometimes yes and sometimes know, I’m not a big fan of those brands though.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  64. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    The New York market is a mess, no good retailer and not a ton of independent service guys. I use these guys they have helped a lot of customers all over the state for me and we have had no issues.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  65. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 1:03 pm

    Hey Jim I really like all three of those brands for build quality but there is nothing out there with the 3.5″ neck jet system and diverter for really good neck and shoulder care, On the twilight you keep the jets just above the water line, it splashes a lot but man does it pound your shoulders and neck…

    There are a ton of independent service companies out there, the local dealers are dying on the west coast, most of the tubs are being bought online or through tent sales and expos but that has simply traded local business people retailing with local business people servicing… The net result is you are still dealing with locals…

  66. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    The local dealers I do not know but the brand is solid.

    I have a superstar down in Houston and I know he has serveice there as well hit him up and see what he can do for you, let him know you were talking to me

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    3.9View in Google Maps

  67. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    Hi Ashlee

    The tub cooling is not down to the brand I would guess it was a plugin model or it was set to low current mode.

    there isa guy down in Miami that I know and they have service guys in your area. there is also an Artesian dealer Splash pools and spas in Jacksonville.

    try these guys

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  68. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 11:24 am

    There is a lot of no-go brands around you but only 2 I would shortlist.

    I also have 2 good independent service companies there and could supply you master in that area and provide a good back up and support. we are in Halifax and we sell spas right across Canada because we have a massive database of great service centers we can utilize.

    Purewater Total Home Leisure
    Status Unverified: We don’t know anything about the dealer but the Artesian line s on our good guy list.

    Sells Artesian
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2070 Robertson Rd, Nepean, ON K2H 5Y8
    http://www.purewaterpool.com
    +1 613-726-0099
    4.5View in Google Maps

    Beachcomber Hot Tubs OrlΓ©ans
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1993 St Joseph Blvd, OrlΓ©ans, ON K1C 1E5
    beachcomberorleans.com
    +1 613-837-2929
    4.9View in Google Maps

  69. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 8:30 am

    pretty comparable, mostly a performance and warranty difference

  70. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 8:29 am

    Hi Brian

    Either will be efficient, they both use a full foam system and all spas reclaim motor heat effectively through the venturi or ozone system.

  71. Reply
    admin July 6, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    Hi Will

    Mainly a performance difference, they are built and insulated well they just don’t have the same massage performance.

  72. Reply
    admin July 5, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    20-years is not reasonable for pumps and heater, it is for plumbing if it is glued and clamped and for the shell if it is a hand-rolled self-supporting hull. you will burn a heater and or a pump every 3 to 5 years or so…

    There are kits available to reform the area, it is simple and environmentally safe

    15 vs 18 there is about 10″ of more usable space.

    Easy as hell we can drop ship it in year supplies are 4-month supplies. stay away from the salt and the other upgrades.

    get cover lifters they make cover removal easy.

    here are reviews on all three brands, the arctic is a swimmer, the twilight is the same build as the swimmer and the hydropool as well is the same build.

    Master review

  73. Reply
    admin July 5, 2018 at 11:00 am

    Yep good well built well insulated tubs, good job sorting the bullshit from the Bananas πŸ™‚

  74. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 5:35 pm

    Those guys have tons of bad rep. But in thier local market they are probably ok… you also have to consider they are the biggest seller of hot tubs in the world right now. They do expose all up and down the west coast. Most dealers do 100-300 tubs a year and if they had one complaint you would ignore it. These guys sell like thousands and thousands of hot tubs so I never can figure out how valid it is. Plus they do the expos so you get a lot of fake shit from pussed off dealers in the local markets the pound.

    The nearest other one is like Appleton or Des Moins… same with artesian and marquis… nothing close to you.

    You have to say 1-3ppm its health and safety and I dont recommend you ignore it. But in the real world I run my displays and personal tubs with eco pure, aquafinesse, and .5ppm and go 10-12 months and I’m a daily user.

  75. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    They’re all the same brand. They’re all part of the Watkins group. The biggest issue I have with this brand is the proprietary parts list, it’s never a good scenario. Here is an article and video on it

    Keep looking

  76. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    Not a big fan of Vita at all, thin shells that are cradle supported, an insulation system that would never meet code for a house, no clamps on the plumbing, and a steel frame which is nowhere near as good as a good timber frame. Keep looking

  77. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    To bring it underneath of a deck does definitely increase the longevity of the cover. But most of this is personal taste.

    I like to get under the stars but when the weather is crap I wouldn’t mind having something over top of it. I wish I could help you more on this one but this really is a personal taste issue.

    The only thing to really consider here is if you going to build it into a deck you want to be careful about how you do that. You really want to frame the deck at least 9 inches to a foot bigger on all sides and then make drop-in panels all the way around the hot tub so you do not restrict access.

    Also keep in mind safety, if your tub is sunk all the way into the deck it’s like stepping into a hole and if you’re drinking it is dangerous. I like my tub stick up 18 to 20 in, around deck chair height so you can sit on the edge get in and out easily

  78. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:24 pm

    Hit up Aqua Haven spas in Tulsa they can help you

  79. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    Yep it’s a good tub, it’s well built self-supporting shell with hand rolled fiberglass and a vinyl Ester resin core.

    The parts are good and the insulation is good, it’s all around a solid pick.

  80. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    Possibly call me at 902-576-5115 ask for Bill or Chris

  81. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    For sure go see Sean. at Valley Pool & Spa they are a little bit away from you but they carry the H2X line and there’s just nothing out there is built as well, don’t let him talk you into the Cal Spa line it is nowhere near as good.

  82. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    I would definitely go with the bullfrog before either of those other brands. Absolutely grind a deal. The low-hanging fruit in in negotiations is always the accessories. Hit them up for extended warranties cover lifters that kind of stuff

  83. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:09 pm

    Coast is doing all the right things from build quality standpoint. I would say those two tubs are on par so whatever your preference is. Coast has better engagement with the user though if you need support.

  84. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Bullfrog is a decent tub but even if it is a bit more Marquis a better product, I’ve been too busy to get the exact quotes but you should be able to call the dealer and ask yourself. Good luck on your hunt!

  85. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    I’m not a fan of vector 21 at all. There’s nothing special about it nothing unique and nothing different except for a bunch of words have been changed to fool people. And now all those parts are proprietary and impossible to get from anybody but them. With a small company like this is especially problematic if this line doesn’t pop you’re going to be screwed.

    The second thing is forget the stupid foot Jets. You need to flow so much f****** water through those things that unless you’ve got those monster Jets that can divert the entire pump to your feet you are never going to get anything from them other than a tickle they just don’t flow enough water period. Also, foot domes of the worst thing in the world every one trips on them and falls on them that’s why everyone got rid of them in the 90’s

    I like the Marquis from a build standpoint but there’s no good Neck Jet Systems on any of their tubs and there’s no good foot Jet Systems. The neck it’s got to be at least the three and a half inch mid flows, shoulder muscles are a big muscle mass those little tiny jets don’t do anything. A good foot jet is my best friend in the world, if you get a tub with the real massive jets in the floor I’ll sit down there and get my lower back done while using it for glutes, so using them for all those big muscle masses and feet awesome the rest are ticklers

  86. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Thought that quote was a little bit high at first but so Cal’s a very expensive area to do business in. It’s about right for the area.

  87. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Master Spas in this area are difficult. There’s a group out of Minnesota that does Expos there every month it’s basically decimated the on the ground retail.

    The upside to it is there’s tons of independent service centers on the ground they have grown over years and years of these expose tent sales and state fairs.

    Reality is the game is changing. And the Advent of these on the ground resources make it fairly safe to buy any brand that uses a compliant parts list.

    The problem is the most important thing for a customer care level is communication and information and lot of these guys just suck at that. Email me a Chris@hottubuniversity.com

  88. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    Man I’m totally with you on avoiding the American-made stuff from a patriotic standpoint and a damage to our economy standpoint. But…

    The only Canadian made swimspa I would even look at would be the coast. That being said the Master Spas are just so far above everybody else for flow rates, performance, for the massage jetting in the seats and for tons of other details, a 60 in depth is just such a big difference… It would be great if they were more comparable options but there really isn’t right now.

  89. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    I absolutely do not recommend the dynasty hot tub or Swim Spa. Go to the search bar and search Dynasty on my website. You’ll see the review of the one I tore apart here, then read the comments, you can hear about the nightmare guy who bought a swimmer that just fell apart. I verified everything to do with this, he absolutely does have that tub and he absolutely did get totally screwed with a tub that just fell apart

  90. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:46 pm

    Microsilk in my opinion is a gimmick. But everybody has their gimmicks πŸ™‚

    My biggest problem is that the parts are going to be problematic down the road. They’re not a big enough player to sell enough of these to afford to keep making those parts if that brand doesn’t catch on. It’s a big risk I would never put a brand on my floor that did not have a simple compliant parts list that I know I can get parts for ever. Plus I hate this proprietary Parts idea it’s all about Prophet down the road it’s all about making sure you have no options. Great for corporate profits bad for the guy with a hot tub in his backyard

  91. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    I think that UV sanitation is arguably one of the best solutions out there for an on board system. That being said I never advise buying any of the upgrades because the aftermarket stuff like aquafinesse is better than all of it. I’m running tubs with drinking water levels of chemicals using UV silver zinc ion and mineral salts, you just can’t beat that.

    You know I’ve never found proximity to be a huge factor on customer care. I know guys like me that sell tubs everywhere and have awesome customer care. And I know guys next door that simply don’t take care of customers.

    I have over 2,000 independent hot tub service companies registered with my site. That’s the only local thing that matters. The reality is great customer care is about communicating information and knowledge. You have enough independent guys in your local market that any dealer on the ball will be able to take good care of you. The actual on the ground service is such a small part of customer care the much more important part is all the little finicky things you need to know about on the way.

  92. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:41 pm

    I got to say I’m not a fan.

    Opened one up the other day in Atlanta and it had pet insulation with a couple inches of fiber? That would never pass code for a house in any Northern climate.

    It was a cradle supported shell which means it’s not thick enough to support its own weight, this is a short term Band-Aid and not a good long-term solution. The plumbing was not clamped and steel frames are not a good solution. They’re not as strong as a good wood support system and they rust and deteriorate and fall apart. Wood will last a lot longer, has a higher thermal value is a lot quieter, it is a better solution.

  93. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:38 pm

    I rarely find proximity to be an factor for good customer care. There are dealers that do great job taking care of customers and there are dealers that suck.

    Features that I like on the LSX Spa that you can’t get on the Artesian are the monster jets where you can divert the entire pump to them and the neck jet system which uses all mid-flow jetting whereas the Pelican uses low flow. For big muscle masses there’s no two ways about it, flowing that larger volume of water really helps for long-term Mobility.

    I really like the Artesian Spas. I did a factory tour there in the spring. For a small operation is doing a good job. But there is zero factory support for the end-user so you need to make sure you have local support options.

    The long and short of it is the LSX is a better Spa but not by any appreciable margin on the fabrication end just on the performance. But do not order the Circ pump low-flow system on either Spa

  94. Reply
    admin July 3, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    I would go Bullfrog over Sundance. Someone petite is never going to fit well because they are all made for around average πŸ™ a good booster seat is what you want.

  95. Reply
    admin July 3, 2018 at 7:41 pm

    email me your phone number ill call you.

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  96. Reply
    admin July 2, 2018 at 12:17 pm

    Hi David

    It’s funny I want to recommend Marquis more but I have zero transparency from them , they never answer or return calls and I’m a guy who sold them a couple hundred hot tubs πŸ™‚ the rest of the guys I endorse have given me full access to their factories for verification and have given us great transparency, once we have this we can say for sure that what they are doing is sold until then it always a big question how much is spin and bullshit.

    The thing I like about Twilight besides the build is the monster jets and the neck jet system, they are huge for the message. man, I sit in the bottom of mine and do my lower back on those crazy monster jets and they just pound the crap out of you, and most neck jet systems are the low flow jets the TS has four of the pulse 3.5″ jets that flow a pile more water… The Marquis just don’t have those two features and I really do not like the foot domes, they are a pain in the ass you trip over them all the time its why most guys got rid of them 15 years ago πŸ™‚ plus those little low flow jets aren’t gonna do anything for feet.

  97. Reply
    admin July 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    HI

    Yeah, I like how they build spas I also like marquis, Artesian Coast, and beachcomber because they basically build the same way.

    Not a fan of the Wtkins hot springs group, they are better at making corporate profits than hot tubs, the proprietary parts alone makes it a big no go for me.

    The price is right and the TSD series is very very good but make sure it does not have a circ pump (little black plastic pump for filtration) they are a pain in the ass although the system can be replumbed easily for a high flow filter system…

  98. Reply
    admin July 2, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Hi Rob

    lots of time the swim current is not a big issue, loads of people just want a year-round pool and you are right you can save a bunch with normal swim current systems.

    So ATV I would say is above the ones you are looking at but you also have three independent service companies within 50 miles of you so if you stick with any of the good brands you should be fine for service.

    There is an Artesian dealer down by Columbia LMR Pool And Spa LLC cant say anything about them.

    Have a Boo at the residential version of the Phelps as well, the H2X line flows better current is deep, has an awesome therapy massage system for the Twilight series hot tubs and should be competitively priced.

    try these guys:

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure Inc
    Owner Adam

    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6120 GA-400 b, Cumming, GA 30028
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-888-3636
    5.0View in Google Maps

  99. Reply
    admin June 29, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    Hey John

    I’m not up on these guys and I never talk much about pumps because they are not a big effector, most pumps are like everything designed to fail they used to last 10 years now they last 5 like your appliances nowadays.

    The big cost effectors are the shell. if you are splashing a chop of glass and then sticking some 2×4 under it its cheap. if you are hand rolling the glass and doing multiple layers hand rolled its expensive as hell.

    Likewise, plumbing, if you are clamping 100 odd joints its expensive. then if you are filling the cavity with insulation… expensive… then jets… little ones are a tenner big one $35 or more, then plumbing size and fittings, efficient sweep angles are pricy and 2″ or bigger gets really expensive.

    Then there are parts, jets can vary in price by 30% electronic control systems by $300 -$500 and even pump motor combos, look at waterways pumps and you think it all the same? nope, one price for an Emerson motor, one for a GE one for a US motor.

    All together from the bottom end to the top end it can add $1500 -$2k base cost.

    So my angle is always simple, I want the guys spending the money on the spa

  100. Reply
    admin June 29, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    Hi

    Most tubs pressure systems are the same. but what changes is the mix of jetting. now a lot of people think the little jets are awesome because they feel like they are really doing a lot but the big hi flow therapy jets which move a lot more water are actually more effective for long-term muscle therapy because they move the whole muscle mass instead of primarily assaulting the dermal layer where all your nerve endings are.

    I have a great guy near you I know him personally and have seen his operation.

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    4.9View in Google Maps

  101. Reply
    admin June 29, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    Of that group, I would only look seriously at the Marquis.

    Here is my review of the Hydropool, not really a fan at all a lot of old tech being pitched as new tech and mid-grade fabrication in my opinion.

  102. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    PDC looks like they use gecko electronic controls man I won’t sell anything that does not have Balboa control and heating systems, they are the best by a huge margin because of the patents they hold.

    Insulation is very little but I don’t know about shell construction or plumbing.

  103. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    First for a good price point spa look at the getaway hot tubs, for super low chems and something that is good for your skin stay with the standard eco pure system then use either Aqua Finesse mineral system its used in hospitals to treat eczema with the combo of the eco pure, the mineral and the ozone I run about.5ppm chlorine and shock after use. keep’s the water nice and as low chem as it gets.

    Aqua Haven
    11083 South Memorial Drive , Tulsa, OK, 74133
    Phone918-252-7727
    Fax
    Emailryan@aquahavenspas.com
    Websitewww.aquahavenspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    11083 S Memorial Dr, Tulsa, OK 74133
    View in Google Maps

  104. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Hey Neal

    I’ve got a guy down there I have sent a pile of people to.

    Never heard anything but good stuff back.

    If you want legs and calf but not a lounger you need to get something with the big monster jets in it then you can sit and hang your legs in front of them and they pound the hell out fo your calves.

    The tub I have is the TS 8.25 it hits all the things you want, for me its all about massage and this is literally the tub I sit in every morning. here is a video review of it

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  105. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    Thermo spas I’m, not a big fan of, it’s like most stuff, middle of the road.

    These cheap perimeter insulation systems are just nonsense, they talk about trapping motor heat but you don’t need all that empty spas to reuse the motor heat, the only reason not to fill the cavity is cost.

    The controls are good but the fact that they still use an air blower is a big warning sign. Air blowers are cheap systems that blow cold air into the tub (even the heated ones are too cool), they are noisy and are used because it ups the jet count and adds value when selling but the reality is no one really uses these anymore except usually mass merchants and online guys.

    The 10 year warranty is pro-rated which means you pay after the first year 100% coverage for the first (1) year, 75% for the next two (2) years, 50% for the following three (3) years and 25% for the remaining four (4) years

    Also, the labor aspect is only one year… You would be better with a 3-year parts and labor

  106. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    my goto brands down there are:

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    4.0View in Google Maps

    Premiere Hot Tubs
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the carry marquis which is a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Burnet Ln, Austin, TX 78757
    http://www.premierehottubs.com
    +1 512-458-4772
    4.8View in Google Maps

    Austin Spas and Pools
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the Carry Artesian which is on our good guy list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    13748 US-183, Austin, TX 78750
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com
    +1 512-335-5458
    4.9View in Google Maps

    Ocean Quest Pools by Lew Akins
    Status: Unverified

    Marquis and Nordic.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2606 N Interstate 35 Frontage Rd, Belton, TX 76513
    http://www.lewakins.com
    +1 254-933-8370
    4.8View in Google Maps

  107. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    foam board is cheap crap with about R4 and costs about $100 full Icynene foam is like R20 and cost $450

    The epic or the LSX the rest I would not personally buy.

    Of those two the neck jetting and monster jets make the LSX my favorite, those massive monsters are insane i sit in the footwell and get them hammering my lower back

  108. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    The only ones i would even look at are:

    High-end competitive swimmers:

    Michael Phelps Swim spas, they are the swimmers you would find in the USA Swimming national team training centers across the US
    Endless pool – a decent second but now that Watkins owns them who knows, these guys traditionally are strong on branding and marketing and mid-on build.

    great build and upper mid performance

    H2X, these flow 40% more water than any other swimmer I have seen with the exception of the two above, the official swim trainer of Iron man

    great build but mid-performance

    Artesian – built well but shallow and lackluster flow
    Marquis – built well but shallow and lackluster flow

    Above all else get depth… I have had swimmer for 15 years for personal use, the biggest difference ever for usability and enjoyment was the depth, the 60″ deep models rule

  109. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    There are 2 independent service companies listed in your area with us so service should not be an issue.

    Price wise Expos are the same as any good high volume dealer and in some cases more than a good warehouse direct guy.

    These guys carry artesian which is also a well-made brand.

    Spa & Pool Center
    Status: Unverified

    The dealer is an unknown but the brand Artesian is solid.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8403 W Fairview Ave, Boise, ID 83704
    spaandpoolcenter.com
    +1 208-376-1514
    4.6View in Google Maps

  110. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    So I am really not a fan of Hydropool, smoke and mirrors, old regurgitated tech that the industry moved away from decades ago and an absolutely abysmal insulation system, that reflective stuff was basically banned in home construction as a primary insulator, it is good at reflecting heat but has no thermal mass and is crap at containing Beta into a system. All the northern US states issued a formal warning against using this in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulation system in hot tubs LMFAO. read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/

    Freestyle is a no in my books, cheap insulation and cradle supported shell, its just like 90% of the stuff out there a bit of bad a bit of good and a bit of ugly πŸ™‚

  111. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:47 am

    The Marquis for sure.

    Caldera is ok but I’m not a fan of proprietary parts. you want a balboa heating and control system. im going to email you a link to a video I just shot 2 minutes ago explaining why. This is not a live video you will be the first to see it πŸ™‚ DO NOT SHARE IT!

  112. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Hi, Todd Whitby Ontario that’s old stomping grounds for me.

    I’m not a real big fan of the jacuzzi group. These large Equity investment companies tend to spend a lot of money on marketing and branding, that’s their Forte, it’s what they’re good at. They also tend to use a lot of proprietary parts and what this means is that they’ve gone over to usually China and had Parts made that just fit their hot tub. This puts you in a bad position. If you really want to build a great hot tub you want to make sure you got a Balbo electronic control and heating system it’s expensive but these guys own a lot of key patents that really make this product the number one position and it is miles above everything else that’s in the industry.

    When guys do this proprietary parts they’re not doing it to make a better hot tub. They’re doing it to cut the costs of production. And the worst part is they’re really doing it to trap you the consumer. If you’re using a good OEM parts list you have tons of options of where to buy it and it’s very competitively priced. When a guy builds a proprietary parts list he controls the pricing and you’ll find that typically you’ll spend 20 to 30% more for these cheaper parts that are failing more often.

    I’m really not a fan of this approach, I want to see a guy spending the money on the hot tub, not on The branding and the marketing and I want a good readily available at OEM parts list.

  113. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:14 am

    if its holding water sure fix it.

    these guys should be able to get you the parts

    Ajax Hot Tub Warehouse
    Marquis
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    322 Fairall St, Ajax, ON L1S 1R6
    http://www.ajaxhottubwarehouse.com
    +1 289-482-1203
    5.0View in Google Maps

  114. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:12 am

    Hi Dawn

    The postal code you gave me doesn’t match, it says somewhere near New Mexico.

    I’m not really sure about the Saratoga line I haven’t really had time to look into it. I’ll try and get it on my list.

    Saltwater Systems are old technology. About 20 years ago most companies moved away from this technology for a number of reasons.

    When it first came out it was good because what it did was take us from 3 to 5 parts per million of chlorine down to 1 to 3 parts per million. It was a big advantage. but there were a lot of issues it was difficult to keep your saltwater levels balanced pH was always trouble and the reality was it was still just a chlorine or bromine system. Now in a pool, this wasn’t such a big deal because the chlorine levels of 1 to 3 parts per million we’re only on your dermal layer and your dermal layer can handle that level chemical. But in a hot tub where you are inhaling the steam, these kinds of levels are terrible. The steam is carcinogenic and the medical community is saying that there’s a lot of medical issues within inhalation of chlorine gas and bromine gas. The modern systems can get you down to drinking water levels of chlorine your water stays super stable it’s very easy to manage and it’s less expensive. This is the big secret that the hot tub manufacturers don’t want you to know because they want to sell you the miracle systems. Then they make money on you instead of somebody else.

    This technology is making a comeback right now and is being hailed as the newest thing out there and it’s just not. It’s outdated Tech.

    There’s also a big corrosion issue with salt, everything around your hot tub decking concrete everything starts to deteriorate very quickly.

    In my opinion, there’s nothing better right now than the mineral systems like Aquafinesse I use that in conjunction with a silver zinc ion and ozone and I run my yearly and just have simple easy reliable water this is the best way. read this:

  115. Reply
    admin June 26, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    He does not pay me anything for that and I was only in touch to follow up, never talk pricing with him I just went off what I know they sell for.

    pricing is always very location specific it cost a lot more to do business in some areas and things like factory duration

  116. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:59 pm

    Artesian for sure by a long shot, the goofy proprietary parts on the jacuzzi are lesser quality and you are stuck with them only for parts, the artesian is better in all ways and has a great parts list you can source anywhere.

  117. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    The CSC line is the best mass merchant spa out there but that being said there are some issues.

    If we forget the fact that it is made in China, the insulation is pants, its R-8 ish, and those reflective insulation systems were basically banned in the home building industry 20 years ago, now all of a sudden they are the miracle insulation systems in hot tubs πŸ™‚ the shell is good, the Balboa control is good and the plumbing is glued and clamped but the jets are the old style click-ins with the little tabs on the sides and these are notorious for failing. the stereo sounds like your phone speakers.

    The use air blowers which no one but mass merchants uses anymore they are basically useless and cost almost nothing to put in and it lets you make you jet count go from the 50’s to the 70’s and your pump count go from two to 3 but its all smoke and mirrors, for 10k you can get better for sure.

    go see krevco the can get you into a clarity or Getaway for near the same money and its a much better built spa

    Krevco Swimming Pools & Hot Tubs
    Approved: Master, Twilight, Clarity, MP Legend, Healthy Living, Plug and Play
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    700 Berry St, Winnipeg, MB R3H 0S6
    http://www.krevco.com
    +1 204-786-6957
    3.5View in Google Maps

  118. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:48 pm

    Hi Susan

    american whirlpool is mid-grade in my opinion, cheap insulation that would never meet code in a northern state for a house so it’s not good enough for your hot tub. no clamps on the plumbing and pedestal supported shell.

    Bullfrog is good and the only thing keeping them out of my tier one stuff is the ABS plastic shell, old tech moistly abandoned a decade ago because it just was not strong enough, they have to put props and supports under it to keep it from falling apart.

  119. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:45 pm

    The Master guys should sell the Getaway and Clarity lines, great entry level spas built right.

    as for sales forget it… its all bullshit, its a sales tactic called “creating urgency” the idea is you put it out there that the price is only now because they are “getting a rebate from the factory” or “it’s an overrun” or “an and of the line” its all bullshit, the price you can sell a product for is the price you can sell it for any time anywhere, in fact all the sales and events are even worse, common sense says if you have an event you have big added costs so how does that play out to better pricing??? it doesn’t…

    you can never get a better deal than a high volume dealer that works from a low overhead environment, simple, honest…

  120. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:41 pm

    I looked but just cant find any info on them and never heard of them of Hudson bay.

    as for the others, the Bullfrog is the best of that lot but not in my top tier because of the ABS plastic shell, these shells are old tech that most of the industry abandoned a decade ago, they were supposed to be a cheap reliable way to make shells and they ended up being cheap and high failure rate. they cant support their own weight and need pedestal supports to keep them together.,

  121. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:38 pm

    not up on the brand ill look into it

  122. Reply
    admin June 30, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    Good parts list and a good insulation system.

    But the shell… These ABS plastic shells made a splash 20 years ago and most people have moved away from them, they are a less expensive way to build a shell and the failure rate is a lot higher than a hand-rolled fibreglass shell. Most companies have moved away from this tech.

  123. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    Sundance is now owned by the jacuzzi group and the big issue I have is the proprietary parts. If you want to build a great hot tub spend the money on the great parts like Balboa, these guys have been building heating and control systems for hot tubs for 30 years and they own key patents that stand them miles above the other systems. If you want big corporate profits then go to China and get a system built that will just fit your hot tub, then you can lock the customer into buying those crappy parts for life at overinflated prices because they have no other options… if you stick with good reliable OEM parts there is always a good competitive price structure and lots of options and the parts are better and last longer.

  124. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    Sundance is now owned by the jacuzzi group and the big issue I have is the proprietary parts. If you want to build a great hot tub spend the money on the great parts like Balboa, these guys have been building heating and control systems for hot tubs for 30 years and they own key patents that stand them miles above the other systems. If you want big corporate profits then go to China and get a system built that will just fit your hot tub, then you can lock the customer in to buying those crappy parts for life at overinflated prices because they have no other options… if you stick with good reliable OEM parts there is always a good competitive price structure and lots of options and the parts are better and last longer.

  125. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    So they are now part of the jacuzzi group and the big issue I have is the proprietary parts. If you want to build a great hot tub spend the money on the great parts like Balboa, these guys have been building heating and control systems for hot tubs for 30 years and they own key patents that stand them miles above the other systems. If you want big corporate profits then go to China and get a system built that will just fit your hot tub, then you can lock the customer in to buying those crappy parts for life at overinflated prices because they have no other options… if you stick with good reliable OEM parts there is always a good competitive price structure and lots of options and the parts are better and last longer.

  126. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    Seems like a reasonable price, it’s too bad they don’t have monster jets in that tub or a decent neck jet system it’s like the kitted it out as a high-end therapy massage spa but skipped the 2 most important bits…

  127. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hi Steven

    its a good reliable unit but overkill for a rental, but again that depoends on how high end the rental is…

    reheating quickly is not a big issue its only 12 hrs or so…

    you could but a second heater inline or a gas heater on any tub although it might void your warranty.

  128. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    Those are solid pricing.

    its started as just doing it because I had the info and was so annoyed at the marketing misinformation, its a passion for sure, but now we do make money off donations and we will be seeling buyers guides soon, and doing big product review comparisons. so now its still a passion but at least I get paid for some of my time πŸ™‚

    besides someone is going to buy this soon the offers are getting high enough that I won’t be able to hold out for much longer, half the buyers in North America come here now for information before they buy, the big equity investment owned manufacturers are losing millions because of this site and they wont let that go on for long πŸ™‚

  129. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 3:59 pm

    typical bait and switch. the American whirlpools(maxx, vita etc) are cheaper and nowhere near the build quality. if they can sell you the Maxx stuff they make more, disappointing that they are playing that game.

    I opened one up in January and was not impressed.

    Shell was thin and had props under it to keep it together, VS the master which is a hand-rolled self-supporting shell.. much more expensive to build the Master shell and way better.
    Plumbing had no clamps on it vs the Master with glued and Clamped plumbing
    Insulation was $100 worth of Roxul insulation (R-8) with a copper bi pet, dude reflective foils were basically banned in the housing industry in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulation in the totally unregulated hot tub industry:-) whereas the master is putting like $450 of Icynene foam in their which has an R-value of near to 20!!!

    There is not a single thing on the AW spas that is better than the Masters and lots that is a lot cheaper

  130. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    the nordic is a reliable build and easy to get parts for , not a fan of Hot Springs

  131. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    Yeah, Getaway is one of the best rotomoulded out there, reliable durable hand clamped plumbing its great.

    Soft tub is too expensive for a liner tub, no therapy massage and the low flow filtration means you cant use the really low chemical options. and goofy parts that are expensive.

  132. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:35 pm

    So, first of all, do not count on your hot tub being watertight, any tub at some point will leak usually from the pump seals but you never know so build a wet room with a floor drain.

    second the Beachcomber for sure, hand-rolled self-supporting shell and glued and hand clamped plumbing…

  133. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    American whirlpool is part of the Maxx Vita group out of Tennessee. I peeled open one in March and cant say I was overly impressed, thin cradle supported shell, low R-value, and reflective foil, and copper or mylar are all basically the same tech, this stuff was drummed out of the home building industry in the 80’s and now is the “miracle” insulation in hot tubs πŸ™‚ it’s cheap. even the plumbing was just dip glued, no clamps. it’s not a brand I can recommend its frankly what most tubs are… cheap and cheerful.

    Caldera is part of the Watkins group, Hot springs limelight etc and I like the insulation but not the proprietary parts! Man these guys who go and get parts that can only fit their spas don’t do it to help make a great hot tub, if they wanted that they would just spend the money on the good parts but they don’t want you to be able to cross shop the parts, they want to be able to control the parts and dictate the price and while that’s a great model for corporate profits its a crap option for the end user. I would never ever buy a spa that did not have at least a Balboa heating and control system in it, Balboa holds key patents that have kept them in the top position for decades.

    Canadian spa while being made in China is actually the best of the three, hand-rolled self-supporting shells, glued and hand clamped plumbing, and Balboa controls, but the jetting is the old click in style with the little tabs on the sides of the jet and the failure rate is epic on this type of jet and that can cost a fortune down the road and again the insulation is like the American whirlpool.

    These tubs are just like most of the stuff.. A bit of good a bit of bad and a bit of ugly…

  134. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Meh, not really a fan, a lot of really old outdated tech that they try and spin as new, and the insulation is simply the worst. in the 80’s when reflective foils came out, there were warnings issued by most of the northern US states. if you tried to build a house with this as your insulation it would never get a permit… the shell is a cradle supported shell and the only good thing is the Balboa control system, the old style floor suction (self-cleaning) and the old pressure filters are just nowhere near as good as the new tech… Read this:

  135. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    Meh, not really a fan, a lot of really old outdated tech that they try and spin as new, and the insulation is simply the worst. in the 80’s when reflective foils came out, there were warnings issued by most of the northern US states. if you tried to build a house with this as your insulation it would never get a permit… the shell is a cradle supported shell and the only good thing is the Balboa control system, the old style floor suction (self-cleaning) and the old pressure filters are just nowhere near as good as the new tech… Read this:

  136. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Hey Dude!

    I live there πŸ™‚

    I never get any local action on this site LMFAO

    The Arctic is all about the advertising, branding, and bullshit, too bad they aren’t about the build quality lol. its companies like this that made me start this site

    There is a Marquis dealer down in Fredericton, and A Beachcomber dealer in Halifax, and then me! all are good options but I dare say, I’m, the best lol

    Hot Tub Universe
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3 Holland Rd, Fletchers Lake, NS B2T 1J3
    wp.hottubuniverse.ca
    +1 902-576-5115
    5.0View in Google Maps

  137. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 11:24 am

    I got nothing for you down there other than the Artesian.

    You do have 2 independent service companies there if you want to call the guys down near Miami they might have an arrangement with these guys for service.

  138. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 10:13 am

    Ony one out there i recommend, they are solid people with good service and great spas

    They have a bunch of smaller spas in different prices starting with the Getaway Hot Hubs. The Healthy Living Spas, and the super high-end Twilight Series therapy massage spas.

    They are all super well-built Hand rolled self-supporting shells, Icynene insulation system (the most expensive system for a hot tub and the only one that would meet code for your house) top parts and hand clamped and glued plumbing system. The meet the Top 5 things you want in a hot tub.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  139. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 10:02 am

    Hi Tim

    Holy jumping man what a range of age for your kids… no flies on you dude πŸ™‚

    Pool guys are often not good choices for hot tubs, they make their money on pools and understand that they usually make bad decisions on hot tubs because its a bolt online they know little about, they also always screw up the chemicals because they think pool and hot tub water chems and priorities are similar and they are not. that’s why the usually carry the big heavily branded crap, they need the marketing and name recognition, these brands are never your best buys, or they carry cheap junk because they have no idea and again need an easy sell.

    Of the list, you provided I would look at the Nordic for entry level but for high-end therapy they really don’t build anything at the top end.
    Master specifically the Twilight is, in my opinion, the best therapeutic massage spa out there.
    The Marquis Signature series but they are seriously lacking and decent neck and shoulder jetting and man, as a 50-year-old broken guy I want monster jets with a diverter awesome for feet knees, glutes lower back etc. expensive option but critical.
    Just squeak through the BullFrog, again nothing in the crazy hi-end therapeutic massage but good all-around build with the exception of the ABS plastic shell, also their pods I think are gimmicky and have little or no advantage over standard well-built systems.

    The rest are either overpriced over marketed mid grade or just simply crapy cheap tubs

  140. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 9:44 am

    Bullfrog for sure.

    Shell – Tie -AW uses a cradle supported fiberglass shell, middle of the road, BF uses an ABS plastic shell, middle of the road
    parts – Tie Both Use balboa heating and control system – Great
    insulation – Bf Wins! full foam icynene, AW uses radiant barrier and 2″ of batt insulation, Fail… It would never come close to meeting code in any regulated industry like the building industry for a northern climate.
    Plumbing- BF Wins! glued and clamped, AW just dip glues.

    You have 3 great choices around you that beat them all.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
    Carry Master
    Details from Google Maps
    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

    Patio Pleasures Pools & Spas
    Marquis
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    634 Struck St, Madison, WI 53719
    http://www.patio-pleasures.com
    +1 608-288-8220
    4.6View in Google Maps

  141. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    The full form is installation isn’t an issue if you’re using Icynene. Girl D1 used to polybase foam in that stuff hardens up like a rocks when you got to leak it was a freaking nightmare.

    The really good expensive phones never heard not been if you ever get leaked all you do is touch the phone find the wet spot pull all the way out form of the middle of the wet spot is the leak fix the leaking refoam.

  142. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    I never thought about that installation issue but you’re totally right. Initially as you added insulation around the piping you
    increase the surface area but you would not yet have enough R-value so you you would lose more heat but that would very quickly stop as you kept increasing the thickness he insulation R-value would far exceed the surface area issue

  143. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Hit up my buddy Dan Henry I sent this guy a pile of business and he takes good care of people and I know him personally.

    Dhenry@eastcoastspas.com

  144. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    What is a Castle Rock do a good job I sent you a few customers and haven’t had anything but good results so far. The Healthy Living wine is good for massaging matched up nicely with the top Nikes and Artisans Twilight series is kind of a unique animal there’s not too many tubs in the marketplace didn’t have the kind of performance this tub has and the reality is for a lot of people it’s Overkill.

    Have a look at the clarity’s or the healthy living on offer from the guys at Castle Rock

  145. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    It’s crazy how everybody else shoots everybody down. The Clearwater Spas are middle of the road, again some of the good some of the bad and they absolutely should be trying to tell you that Marquis line it’s a much better quality tub. A lot of times what happens is guys carry two lines like this and then they play one line off on the other one typically trying to sell you the one that they buy for least which therefore has better profit.

    You can’t go wrong with the clarity line their hand rolled shells self-supporting their full foam icynene foam insulation glued and clamped Plumbing and Balboa Control Systems. that’s all the magic and I’ve never heard any bad things back from that company to that sells them there in fact I have sent several customers there and have had nothing but good responses back

  146. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    The biggest problem I have with that brand is that they use an inexpensive Installation System. And I do not think the shells are hand-rolled or self-supporting. I’d have to look into it more.

  147. Reply
    admin June 19, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    one of my top rated tubs, with the flow control system and the neck jets and those monster jets ion the footwell its just a performance machine, and they build right.

  148. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    Hey Lisa!

    Hamilton!!! my old stomping grounds kind of πŸ™‚ went to orchard park secondary!

    try these guys, great people and im sure they can help you there.

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie said in the last 2 years we have sent them a few leads that were 100 percent sold tubs. She mentioned in the last few months maybe 1 or 2. interested in knowing more about the program. Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
    Remove
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  149. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    Yeah the overinflated heavily branded lines… lmfao 19k forget it… you don’t need to spend that much and can get a better tub…

    Bahama I agree, and Strong is the brand from the viral video I shot I like the covers but unfortunately, the rest is a shit show. check this out…

    The Bullfrog is far and away the better of the lot. the issues I have with it are shell construction, it uses an ABS plastic shell. these were all the rage 20 years ago and most guys have gone away from them unless their factory is located in an area with super high environmental laws like CA. they need supports under the shell to keep them together and it’s just not the best way to do it. that being said most guys use cradles to support there is only a handful of guys doing hand-rolled self-supporting shells.

  150. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    Dude Marquis by a mile they are not even in the same universe. here is the review I shot on the strong…

  151. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    very cool I would not have thought there would have been issues at any size. crazy! thanks for the nugget

  152. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    very cool I would not have thought there would have been issues at any size. crazy! thanks for the nuggett

  153. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:47 pm

    beachcomber of that group for sure.. they are a whole step above the other two you mention.

    check these guys out they carry getaway and clarity, great entry level spas

    Valley Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Approved brands: Master, H2X, MPL, Twilight, Phelps swim spas

    I spent 3 days with the wonderful folks from valley Pool and spa. These guys are in a class of their own and carry my goto brand Master.

    info@valleypoolandspa.com Sean, Sonya
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1659 Cary Rd, Kelowna, BC V1X 2C1
    http://www.valleypoolandspa.com
    +1 250-860-2266
    3.9View in Google Maps

  154. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:45 pm

    Hi Tom the shells on roto molds are damn near indestructible but you are right… most of the rotomold market is cheap parts and thin shells…

    look for Getaway hot tubs or Nordic spas… good reliable rotomolds.

  155. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:44 pm

    i would build a frame of wood or metal fill it with crusher dust or type one driveway and set the tub on it.

  156. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    its s hit show, everyone has their own song and slags the competition:-)

    My recommendations are consistently specific. – hand rolled self-supporting shell, full foam icynene, Balboa controls, glued and clamped plumbing, this is the most expensive way to build a spa the rest is bullshit marketing.

    Clearwater is middle of the road, Just the insulation is enough to make me run for the hills. there are no shortcuts or miracles… it’s crazy… we would never have this conversation in a regulated industry like the home building industry because we have codes to adhere to, these radiant barriers and batton type insulation systems used in hot tubs would never, ever, qualify anywhere in the northern hemisphere for home building so why should it be good enough for your hot tub which has a much higher heat loss due to the larger temperature difference? You want R-value!!! full foam Ivcynene if possible.

    It also uses a less expensive cradel supported shell

  157. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:39 pm

    Balboa is so far out there it’s not even a race, they own key patents that make it a fundamentally better system.

    as a retailer that sells 300+ tubs a year, there is no way I would carry anything without it.

    Il email you a list of the guys I have registered.

  158. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    I don’t have concerns with the parts list on this spa. I might have misspoken… its a good tub

  159. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Wow an area I didn’t have data on πŸ™‚

    So I went through the local guys and you have the usual run of the mill stuff, and the big branded mid-range stuff, and one goofy operation that carries such a bizarre juxpostiton of brands that it makes me wonder… But they do carry the Artesian and the Nordic brands. Artesian is a great mid to upper end and the Nordics are great entry level. I’m not sure about the dealer Aurora Pools & Spas, they seem to be all over the place and sell tons of different products, sometimes these catch-all guys are not as good on the back end as a dedicated hot tub professional, and pool guys are often pool-centric as it is their main business and hot tubs and pools have nothing at all in common, even the water chemistry between pools and hot water are vastly different.

    There are 2 local service companies that just fix hot tubs, and a ton in Louisville, I assume you must have some big event sales out there we usually see these independents popping up in markets where these sales hor state fairs are selling a lot of tubs. Likely a lot fo the tubs there are being bought from out of the market.

  160. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    There is an artesian dealer near you Purewater Total Home Leisure and you have an awesome independent service guy 20k away called Sonshine, I’ve used him down there and he knows his stuff.

  161. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 8:09 pm

    I like the Artesian over the Marquis and if its all about the Hi-performance massage then the master kicks ass with the Twilight line, esp if you like the shoulder and neck jets, they splash a lot but man to they loosen up the neck area and the massive foot monster jets are great for glutes knees, feet, and the big tough muscle masses, I sit in the footwell and do my lower back and my hip after war canoe practice and it just mashes the hell out of you.

    There is also a gem on your doorstep, the guy at Sonshine hot tub service delivers and does good repair work so if you stick to good standard brand you should be ok.

  162. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:55 pm

    So I called and spoke to Mark the owner and here is the scoop.

    Gecko heating and control System, not my number one (Balboa) but better than the proprietary crap out there.

    Cavity insulation with Roxull R-22, Clear poly tubing on the entry level and nylon would flex on the higher end models not just glued not clamped, hand-rolled shells self-supporting.

    So it’s a mixed bag…

  163. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:30 pm

    Coast is good on paper but is dogged by a lot of bad PR, I spoke to 3 dealers here who used to sell Coast and dumped them one In Pei, one in Moncton and one in Halifax they all said the same, good spas but quality control issues, lots of stuff coming out with lots of little issues. The other side is I will not get 100% behind a line until I have visibility of the factory, if they are not willing to let me walk the production line then that is a big red flag for me. Its one of the reasons Marquis is only on my fringe and Master and Artesian are on my highly recommended list, both those guys were open and clear and gave me access to the factory and their people to talk to… Once I’ve done this then I can say with confidence what the reality is and what is spin and marketing BS. Its funny I toured Cal Spa factory this year they also do the steel angle iron in the shell the picture shows this massive thick chunk of metal the reality is it was tin and so thin that I doubt there was any real advantage and it was nothing more than spin… an excuse not to spend the money on a hand-rolled self-supporting shell… haven’t seen the coast shell production first hand but I wouldn’t be surprised if its the same…

    Coast I just can’t get behind them, I’m not saying they are bad I’m just saying there is not enough visibility and there are concerns with QC.

  164. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:08 pm

    Hey Jessie

    I have been to Golden when we skied kicking horse.

    The Beachcomber is the only one I would touch out there, I don’t even have any service guys there.

    get a leep (not hybrid) version. they are built well but unfortunately, BC does not do any real high-performance models but at least you have a good build and good parts list.

    If you had a local handyman we can deal with you could buy from out of market but its always tricky if there are not independent guys ont he ground for service.

  165. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:04 pm

    That area is a mess, just not any brands I like and hardly any dealers.

    These areas are primarily servic3ed by Expo sales, tent sales, state fairs and out of state purchases, it’s just too damn expensive for brick and mortar establishments so only the heavily branded overpriced crap has big enough margins to survive.

    In some markets buying local is key but in this market buying local is a mess and there are literally like 20 independent service companies that just deliver and fix spas registered with us right now. if you stick with a brand that is using the good standard reliable parts and the guys that sells it to you is solid and knows his shit you can have an excellent purchase and service experience.

    I just finished developing an application for the service industry and its just clearing beta testing, we have been using it here for a month and its solid as a rock, we are getting the local service guys onto it and it helps us control the back end of their business by giving us parts tracking and scheduling information and tracks all your history.

    Man Hot Springs and Jacuzzi are the 2 of the reasons I started this site, I was so tired of these mid-grade spas using all these crap proprietary parts and through branding and marketing selling them as high-end spas… I had the VP of Sales from the California office of both of these corps visit my tiny little store in rural NS this winter trying to get me on board cause our real information is costing them millions in sales right now. I would never get into bed with these big equity investment owned guys just too much smoke and mirrors bullshit, these guys are gurus at marketing and branding but pants at making spas.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store down near Anaheim carry Artesian its the only brand I would consider locally.

  166. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    Doing this in situ is expensive and awkward and you would need to strip the shell to the base and put all new fittings and plumbing in… Man if you’re a project DIY guy it might be viable but if not this could very well turn into a nightmare… getting a good shell to housing seal is really tricky and you need a specialist and some luck… I would not recommend this as a viable option unless you can get a job price paid when its running and not leaking for a week.

    The other side is there is a great brand new shell that’s open and just has tons of room and it’s not an expensive line… have a look at the Clarity precision 8

    you can email me directly if you need help chris@hottubuniversity.com

  167. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    Hi Stephen

    Most spas have a lot of jets now so you will likely have more jets than you need.

    Hot Tubs Of Rockville sells artesian the Garden Spa Wisteria from Artesian is ok if you want a lounger and it’s only a 7 footer and I’m not sure of the dealer there and with artesian dealer support is even more important because the factory will not take your calls.

    if you want really simple and reliable and inexpensive the Getaway bar Harbour is going to be the best-priced unit and if you want a little bigger and higher end and massive space nothing out there has more usable space than the Clarity Precision 8, brand new shell design and its roomy and open.

    check out these guys Iknow them and send them tons of business and they are on the ball…

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands. because these guys are a registered HTU Allstar if you buy any of our approved brands from them you get the added security of contacting us directly if you ever have an issue!
    Remove
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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  168. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 5:14 pm

    My buddy Christian at Premium wholesale has a brother Griffin who does GTA hit them up.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606

  169. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    That Grand cayman at 6k is a solid deal i would push for 5k but its not a bad option for you.

  170. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    Hi

    I ignored the heat recovery because we were just talking about heat retention R-value.

    The motor heat recovery is another conversation entirely. My argument here is simple… both insulation types recover heat effectively. The gimmick is this… the guys not spending the money on insulation say its so they can trap motor heat and it does to an extent but there are 2 other factors in play… one there is not much r value so we are bleeding more heat, no arguing this r value is directly related to heat loss. Second, they are inferring that you need all this open space to effectively trap motor heat and that’s just wrong… you should fill the back three sides and all you need is the little area in front. the heat from the motor will get pulled into the water through the ozone and venturis. In fact, one of the calls we get a lot is my tub will not heat above 85F or 90F this is almost always a burnt out heater that is not tripping the breaker and the tub stays at 85-90 just poff the waste heat from the pump and this is on a full foamed Master…

    The other one is wrong I believe, although the surface area increases the heat loss decreases… so basically it works like this… every R-10 basically traps about 70% of the heat loss, so you lose 30% adding another R-10 would take care of 70% of the loss from the first R-10 so now we are loosing about 10% of the heat, adding another R-10 means we are losing 3%… so the laws of diminishing returns say that much more than R-20-30 and we are wasting our time… but these meatheads putting 2″ of roxul with a radient barrier ??? foregt it thats like R-7 or 8… def not enough… perimiter systems with 2″ of expanding foam??? same… r-6 or 7

  171. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    Wow, great analysis.

    I don’t know the H20 im going to call them today!

    Coast is good on paper but is dogged by a lot of bad PR, I spoke to 3 dealers here who used to sell it one In Pei, one in Moncton and one in Halifax they all said the same, good spas but quality control issues, lots of stuff coming out with lots of little issues. The other side is I will not get 100% behind a line until I have visibility fo the factory, if they are not willing to let me walk the line then that is a big red flag for me. Its one of the reasons Marquis is only on my fringe and master and Artesian are on my highly recommended list, both those guys were open and clear and gave me access to the factory and their people to talk to… Once I’ve done this then I can say with confidence what the reality is and what is spin and marketing BS. Its funny I toured Cal Spa factory this year they also do the steel angle iron in the shell the picture shows this massive thick chunk of metal the reality is it was tin and so thin that I doubt there was any real advantage and it was nothing more than spin… an excuse not to spend the money on a hand-rolled self-supporting shell… haven’t seen the coast shell production first hand but I wouldn’t be surprised if its the same…

    so… H20 unknown I cant say but will call them and see what I can find.

    Beachcomber, nonhybrid great option but limited performance, they should do a high-performance model to add to their lines, and they are pricy.

    Coast I just can’t get behind them, I’m not saying they are bad I’m just saying there is not enough visibility and there are concerns with QC.

    – But I literally have 6 independent service guys within 30Km of you so you could go to any of the other brands and have a good reliable service level and if you have a good person to buy from it should be a no-brainer. I sell a fair bit direct into the west coast and maintain a 5 start google rating… Most of what you need form a dealer is information, knowledge, and advice, the actual on the ground service is pretty easy esp if you have the number of independents around like you do.

  172. Reply
    admin June 13, 2018 at 9:55 am

    Hi

    I have seen the Maxx and the Vita that they build (all the same factory) and was not overly impressed, cradle supported shell, batton type insulation, no clamps on the plumbing, steel frame… it’s middle of the road at best.

    You have a local marquis dealer and that the only one out there I would give a second look at.

    Marquis Hot Tubs – Beaverton
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    7170, 8775 SW Cascade Ave # A6, Beaverton, OR 97008
    http://www.marquishottubs.com
    +1 503-684-6110

  173. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:59 pm

    Yeah you have an artesian dealer and a Marquis dealer I would rate the Artesian slightly higher and I have visibility of them I toured the factory in January, small outfit but doing good things.

    Austin Spas and Pools
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the Carry Artesian which is on our good guy list.
    Remove
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    13748 US-183, Austin, TX 78750
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com
    +1 512-335-5458
    4.9View in Google Maps
    30.45985, -97.79438

    Premiere Hot Tubs
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the carry marquis which is a good brand.
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    6415 Burnet Ln, Austin, TX 78757
    http://www.premierehottubs.com
    +1 512-458-4772
    4.8View in Google Maps

  174. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    Yep I like Nordic.

    They are roto molds and I’m going to be doing a series on roto molds.

    like the control systems the design, The build quality of the glued and clamped plumbing and the insulation while not my top is better than most.

    The Getaway line is basically a copy of their spa with everything except it has full foam, both are good buys.

  175. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    Buying from a non-local can be great or a nightmare depending on the area and the brand. stick to a good brand using good easily sourced parts and you should be fine.

    You got a guy in Fort Collins that service spas called All Spa Services & Repair I talked to the guy today he knows what he is doing.

    call these guys and see if they can help, they are a bit far away but likely have a service guy there or talk to the guy i mentioned.

    Aqua Spas
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    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google Maps

  176. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    Great Input Jeff Thanks

  177. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Of that group Cal is likely the best, I reviewed their factory this winter but the shell and the control system are not up to par. and you need to pay to have the full foam upgrade.

    Try these guys

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.

    Owner: Gerald
    Dealers #1 931-455-2500
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    507 W Lincoln St, Tullahoma, TN 37388
    http://www.hicespool.com
    +1 931-455-2500
    5.0View in Google Maps

  178. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    man your area is a wreck, nothing there at all that I can recommend.

    You do have a solid guy that does refurbs and service and delivery. I have a deal with him there because there is no one around.

    let me send you some info.

  179. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    Hot Tub Store
    They were super rude and was not willing to let me chat to a sales rep.
    Remove
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    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.2View in Google Maps

  180. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:43 pm

    man if I was in the US and near the border, id go to Canada and buy the dollar is so strong right now you will make a killing. plus there is SFA around you there that I would touch try these guys… but do it quick before Trump builds a wall around us LMFAO

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie said in the last 2 years we have sent them a few leads that were 100 percent sold tubs. She mentioned in the last few months maybe 1 or 2. interested in knowing more about the program. Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  181. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    A bit but we took into account volume of sales but the numbers are still wack, and its on par with what have here, we had a bunch of hot springs and Jacuzzi and Sundance spas here then the dealers all dumped the lines and we serviced a bunch of them and eventually stopped altogether even offering service on the goof train brands because it was affecting our reputation, its hard to service these things because of the parts lists and the failure rates on the Hot springs here were epic… heater relay board frying all the time, the spa side controller failed so regularly that every one of the customers we had just given up replcing them even under warranty… its why they put the spa controller in the skirt, it cant take the hot tub environment πŸ™‚

  182. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    Yep that’s your nearest and I don’t even see any other good brands around you.

  183. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    OMG I need to set up a store there πŸ™‚ I have 10 independent service guys within 30 miles of Anaheim but only one brand I would recommend.

    There is a marquis dealer but the also carry Hot springs and caldera… lots of times when I guy lists a brand I recommend its just to get you in they try and sell you the other crap so be wary. With almost half the buyers in the US spending nearly a billion dollars coming to my site this year and around 5000 of you people spending around $50 million dollars asking me directly for advice we are seeing this more and more. I do not know this dealer they have never contacted us so I can’t speak for their service levels.

    if you want performance don’t look at the number of jets look at the size of the jets and the flow control systems.

    On small spas don’t go much below a 4 person there are loads of options but for the high-end therapy massage spas it gets pretty narrow.

    – If you want great neck and shoulder massage get a tub that has 4 of the middle sized jets shoulders need a good pounding and you need to flow a lot of water to get any kind of long-term improvement, most spas have 2 or 3 of the little jets. and be really careful because a lot of fo companies are putting big faces on the jets to make them look like hi flow jets but they are really just low flow with a big head… Ask them to take the jet out a low flow will be a hole the size of a big finger or small thumb the next one should be big enough o fit 3 fingers in.

    – For feet and glutes, hips and other big muscle masses you really need the big monster jets these are 10″ or bigger and typically have 14 or more nozzles in them and usually a diverter valve to allow you to put a whole pump on them…

    I just went through the lines from Artesian and they don’t do any high-end small spas, they only do them in their lower two lines and its all small jets, no neck system, and no monsters πŸ™

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling” you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.

    Remove
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    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.3View in Google Maps

  184. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 11:55 am

    Hi Danny

    Pricing is funny when we are talking about brick and mortar establishments the cost of doing business can vary dramatically from place to place. Things like taxes, rent and shipping can be big effectors.

    Those two tubs come from Fort Wayne and Las Vegas so shipping would much more on the south seas.

    I am assuming you are comparing to an HL 7.5 that would be very comparable performance and jetting wise these two tubs should be virtually the same price.

  185. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 7:17 pm

    Hi Michael.

    The Master is a bit ahead only on the shell. on all other fronts the tubs are dead equal, and yes the jetpacks are gimmicky AF, no advantage at all.

    The master uses a hand-rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell, its built like a boat hull and is robust enough to hold the weight of water and people with no support. very expensive to do this but it is the best. the BF is a plastic shell that requires pedestal supports.

  186. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 7:04 pm

    Both well built spas, But I know from your line of questioning that you have not wet tested them… performance wise fewer pumps are always better for a lot of reasons. first off basic pump efficiency says that a pug pump is 20%-30% more efficient than 2 smaller pumps and you need to understand that both of those tubs are using every amp of electrical current available so while we can do goofy marketing things like putting a 5hp pump head on a little 8 amp motor and then saying its a 5hp pump does not change the math… fewer big pumps is always more efficient and therefore more water flow read this article for more info:

    Diverters while a pain in the ass and noisy let you put more water to the jets. not only do you have more available power from the efficiency difference of fewer pumps with a diverter system but also the pumps are larger so now you can put significantly more water to the big monster jets and the main massage seats.

    But even if these two things were equal the jetting on the Pelican Bay is sporadic and kind of goofy… the only Hi flow therapy jets in the whole tub are all in the same position near your lower back… none in the upper back area and the neck jets are low flow.. the mid flow jets on the LSX neck jets seat blow them away and the way they set up the jetting with one seat having all hi-flow and one having all low flow Hi pressure is a way better arrangement.

    Then there are the foot jets… first off who the hell does foot domes anymore? these are throwbacks tot he 80’s and they were taken out of most spas years ago… they are a pain in the ass you will hate them, you are always tripping on the damn dome and it’s a big liability issue, The other reason why 95% of the industry has abandoned floor suctions is it causes a weakness in the floor both from a structural standpoint and especially from an insulation standpoint!!! Underneath the floor of a hot tub is very little room so we’ve only got a couple of inches of insulation under there, with a floor dome you need to put a fitting in the floor and then put a pipe running under the floor. There is no insulation now where that pipes running which means you are flowing all that hot water right across the cold ground and bleeding tons of heat through conduction. Most manufacturers have gotten away from putting any plumbing under the floor of the tub for that reason, also it’s the number one source of leaks because everyone is always stepping on the dome and it gets loose and starts to leak. The LSX has the monster jets and the ability to put a whole pump to them.. this is a $500 option and it is next level, I love the monster jets and use them for feet, thighs by kneeling in the footwell and even lower back.. you can put so much water through them its crazy.

    As much as I like the Artesians build and they really compete well in the mid and entry they do not perform like the really hi-end stuff.

    for me the LSX hands down.

  187. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Hi Mike

    My recommendations for swimmers are the same as hot tubs, they are the exact same build issues, same parts, and same concerns. The only thing that changes is the flow rates. now in the pro trainer section, the Phelps is the one for sure, this was not an endorsement deal this was a design and testing deal. I know Master worked with Michael and Bob Bowman his coach or years designing and perfecting the Phelps swim line to come up with a swim trainer able to be used by the competitive swimmers. The only other one anywhere near it would be Endless pools, but again its part of the Watkins group now and traditionally I have not been a fan of their business model from an end user standpoint, now from an investment standpoint they are likely one of the best but you’re buying a product, not shares πŸ™‚

    For the normal market again the H2X model is just in a class of its own, the flow rates are like 40% better than most swimmers out there and a lot fo the design features implemented in the Phelps trickled down to his line as well.

    The other big thing is the water depth. the shell height is 60″ but the big thing is it’s not a goofy scenario where they just raised the shell on a frame to make it look deep, the shell is the deepest out there by a lot, I get over 4′ of actual water depth and for resistance training and swimming that extra depth and hi flow rate is critical.

    There are literally 7 brands around you and none of them would make my recommended list with the exception of Pioneer with the Endless line.

    I have a personal friend not far from you and he is also the biggest seller of swim spas in the country.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.4View in Google Maps

  188. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 12:01 pm

    Hey Tami

    That west coast is a wacky market.

    Hardly any dealers on the ground, I suspect the property costs have driven their prices so high that most people buy from out of state and event sales.

    I got a service guy registered in Los Gatos about 12 miles from you but no good brands in the area.

    There is an Artesian dealer in Santa Cruze but I don’t know him Artesian is a good line if and only if you have a good dealer because the factory will not deal directly with end users.

    I also have a great guy up in Sacremento and I know he does a lot in the Bay area but not sure if you are too far away from him or not, he won’t swell into a market unless he has coverage but it’s worth asking him the question.

    I’ll poke him and see if this is an area he can help in.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
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    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    View in Google Maps

  189. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 11:49 am

    Hey Arthur

    man you got like 8 local dealers but the only brand I would short list would be the Marquis from B & M Pool, Spa & Patio in Rincon, I cant speak for the dealer though I dont know him and with marquis im always a little iffy because the factory support end is pretty much non existant from my experience, we have left a load of messages both as customers wanting care and as me saying I have a custyomer for them and they never ever returned even a single call so you really need to have a good dealer. I got a great Guy In Atlanta but I’m not sure if he has a service guy down there or not, I know he will not sell into an area he does not have good backup in but it’s worth giving him a ring, I was down there in March and went to both hios locations, spent hours with his service teams, his parts guys and his staff. they have a great operation and really care.

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
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    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    5.0View in Google Maps

  190. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 8:01 pm

    Hi Mike

    It’s a screwy market down there.

    One trend we are seeing is where these big shows have been running for years and years there are hardly any dealers left and tons of independent service companies.

    I literally have 7 independent service guys listed with the site in the area, the whole west coast is a very different market.

    It seems like most of the tubs sold around there are from out of state.

    The good news is you can buy any of the good brands and as long as you stay away from the brands with the screwy parts yer fine.

  191. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 7:56 pm

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys and spent a few days with them, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps

  192. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 7:56 pm

    Yeah thats about the right price, its a crazy tub.

  193. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 7:55 pm

    ok so my goto guy is in Sacramento you also have a coast dealer near you not quite as good but a close second.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    http://www.sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.7View in Google Maps

  194. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    Hi Sam and thanks.

    I never hide the brand I carry in my local market, obviously, it would be one of the 5 I recommend πŸ™‚ for Me I would sell Marquis, Artesian, or Master, from a factory standpoint I use master because they have the infrastructure and range of lines and their swimmers.

    In fact 2 of the other brands I like and publically endorse are in my local market which kind of sucks…

    I am not a big fan of some expos, tent sales, and state fairs but that does not change the fact that 20-30% of the spas sold are from these venues and in some markets it’s way higher, so cal is like 50%-60%.

    The reality is the pricing at these events is similar to a good high volume retailer and better than the average retailer.

    My argument was with the false reports, and I agree that consumer affairs are questionable but so are all the others… You also can’t say a guy has more complaints than a local retailer (I know some local guys that have worse records) when a local guy is doing 200 spas and those guys in Minnesota are doing like 5000… I’m not commenting on them, in particular, I don’t really know them but if a local retailer doing 200 tubs had one complaint every 5 years that would equate to five complaints a year for a guy doing 5000 spas.

    The truth is in some markets (west coast esp) there are hundreds of independent service guys now that have been created by these sales and events, in So Cal, for instance, I would say that with real estate values there the out for town sales are better value, and with all the service guys around the service levels are pretty good I literally have 20 service companies in LA listed with us.

    I also have an issue with the idea that local means good, I know tons of shitty local businesses. The reality is 90% of what a customer needs is timely information and knowledge and that has nothing to do with proximity. If we have an area where there are lots of independent service guys from years of these out of market sales then the reality is there are a lot of people having good experiences buying from out of the market.

    I get it, man, I’m a small retailer and there are 3 events here a year, Hydropool does one and Dynasty and Master. I take these guys on and service them and get referral business from the customers and you are right, the price I see coming through my door is about the same as they could buy directly from me for but I’m low overhead warehouse direct and fairly high volume. because I take on the service for these events the truth is buying from the event (on the good brands) is as good as buying from me, but don’t tell anyone πŸ™‚

  195. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    Hi Matthew

    all the lines from top to bottom have the fundamental 5 things so yes. what really changes is the jetting and features.

  196. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    Hi Mike

    The guys at precision are primarily a service company, that’s where you saw the Arctics, the service all brands, its too bad they carry the Arctic. The Arctic and Hot Springs and brands like this are why I started this whole site. here is an arctic review

    I really think that guys using these proprietary parts and spending so much on marketing are just often not building great tubs, You really cheaper balboas heating and control system, way easier and cheaper to get parts for and much much better quality than the Invensys and no name systems.

    if you were going to go local go hot springs I guess.

  197. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    forget the garden leisure stuff its nowhere near the same quality.

    check out these guys.

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google

  198. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    Hi Sean

    good dealers in the right area can very successfully handle this distance. The truth is if you live somewhere that has a lot fo independent service guys then its nothing. The reality is most of what you need from a dealer is timely information and knowledge, only for the actual boots on the ground service do you care about proximity and frankly local does not guarantee you anything at all.

    Now this is critical because you need to have a brand that has a good standard parts list or you do need a really strong local dealer so any of the brand doing proprietary parts (which I don’t recommend anyway) would be a nightmare on a long distance deal.

    I like any brand that builds the way I know is the most expensive and reliable way to build. so master artesian marquis beachcomber are all good choices, I use master just because they have so much more choice than the other ones.

    you got nothing around you man I have a lot of if issues down there finding good choices, the guys in Syracuse I threw a few customers to and they seem to be on the ball. we even did some test calls asking for service far anyway and both times they were like no problem can get someone out.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949

  199. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    Hi Nir.

    More jets means nothing, size matters the big hi flow jets are the expensive ones and if you have a lot fo them you need flow control to divert the water to the main seats. full foam for sure… but it has to be Icynene or something similar so you can get access to the spa if needed.

    if it’s about massage, as it is for me the twilight from Master, is the tub hands down. its the best build, parts, shell, and plumbing system and the performance is insane… check out the video of mine that i crawl into almost every day πŸ™‚

  200. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    Hi Sheila

    I know these guys and met them a few times. they are one of the most awarded pool guys in the world, these guys are literally in a class of their own.

    I literally have 8 independent service guys in Vancouver. I think there is a big expo that goes there every year so there are lots of independents. you should be fine there.

  201. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    Hey Bruce.

    The cal would have been good because it used the Balboa control system and the right parts list… it’s critical I would not even consider spas using proprietary parts like the Hot Springs and jacuzzi, pain to find service guys who will work on them if your local dealer shits the bed and you just can’t beat the reliability of the Balboa system. Viking and Thermo, on the other hand, are not in my top group because of the build and the insulation.

    I like to stay with the reliable proven tech… hand rolled shells, the right parts clamps on the plumbing and a good icynene insulation system, its the most expensive way to build and the best. so master, marquis, beachcomber, artesian.

    try these guys

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    5.0View in Google Maps

  202. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hi Tom.

    So the unit shuts the pumps off after 20 mins or so to remind you that you have been in for that long.

    At that time you should be able to turn them back on.

    now if you run a few cycles and its warm out it is possible that the motor is overheating and shutting down internally, its a protection system to stop the motor from overheating. It doesn’t come up much because most people use the high speed for a session then soak.

    so if this is happening on the first go through it might be an issue with the pump, but if we are talking about 2 or 3 sessions then its just the reality almost any tub will do this after a long session.

  203. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:43 pm

    Yeah, the UV tech is arguably the best onboard system but I don’t normally buy any of the upgrades for that because the truth is the standalone stuff is great, that tubs standard ozone and eco pure is good then just use an enzyme like spa marvel or a mineral system, like aqua finesse or Mineraluxe

  204. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    BF is not a nightmare brand, the only thing keeping them out of my tier one group is the shell. These ABS plastic shells need pedestal supports and are not nearly as expensive or as reliable as a hand-rolled shell. I do like the parts, insulation and plumbing system. I find it a little gimmicky, it’s very questionable whether the flow system is any more efficient, they do this thing where they say there is less pipe so therefore less restricting but they don’t mention that almost all the pipe they have reduced is in parallel so it really has zero difference there.

    Not much around you dude.

    You do have Marquis and master in Dallas. ping them and see if they have service in your area.

    Try these guys

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    tim@atlasspas.com
    Remove
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    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004
    4.8View in Google Maps

  205. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    So that’s part of the Fonteyn group I think my buddy Dolf is part of it. cant see much except that they have mylar insulation, cheap and not used in any regulated industries as a primary insulator, you could not use it in a house where you live because you would never get a building permit. Michigan requires R-20 I think and this stuff is like R 2 or3

    try these guys

    Master Spas of West Michigan
    Master Spas Of West Michigan
    2055 28th St Se, Grand Central Plaza, Grand Rapids, MI, 49508
    Phone: 616-475-7770
    mrspas01@aol.com
    Remove
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    2055 28th St SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49508
    http://www.masterspasgr.com
    +1 616-475-7770
    4.8View in Google Maps

  206. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    Hi Jane

    Go used and simple.

    if you find something open it and look at the equipment area, shoot a video of the interior and email me the video, shoot in between the pump and the motor and generally pan around inside and in the interior.

  207. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    hey jeff

    I do know it well only because I got a friend I have known for a long time there.

    It’s a funny Market Calgary, loads of retailers but only 2 brands I like. there is SML who do beachcomber and if you stay away from the hybrid option and if you are looking for middle fo the road performance its a good option but they don’t do any of the really high-end therapy massage spas, their top tub has 4-5 of the good jets, and mostly the little cheap pones and no flow control because you don’t need it when you don’t have a pile of the expensive therapy jets.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  208. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    usually, there is no warranty on a used spa, some manufacturers will let you transfer it but most won’t.

    Now used guys will often offer their own warranty but unless they are well established and have 5 years of trading history or more then that’s very questionable.

  209. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    Hi Rowan

    so first off the Cal spa is by far the better of those two I inspected the factory there this year and the only things keeping them out of our good guy list is the cradle supported shell and now on the spas, they are not using Balboa and the full foam is an upgrade.

    so… if you buy cal say you want the better control (Balboa) and the full foam upgrade. Jacuzzi I do not like at all.

    I also have 7 independent service guys registered there, most of the spas in So Cal are bought from out of the market, the retail costs are just too high, you pay a couple grand more from local retailers and with all the service guys there you can get better service buying from us.

    Here is an article on all the magick like ozone and UV. They are all ok but the aftermarket stuff beats them all so don’t buy and chemical reduction bullshit.

  210. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    Hey Kendal.

    Hard to say, man, they are a nightmare to work on from what I hear but man if its running go with it and see.

  211. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    this is an easy one πŸ™‚

    Sunteck down there has literally taken care of 20-30 customers for me this season and they do a great job.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
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    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  212. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    Hi Christopher

    So most tubs are pretty smart in so much as they will run themselves and the easiest systems are usually aftermarket stuff anyway πŸ™‚

    try these guys, its the best stuff around you by far.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
    Remove
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    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

  213. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Of that group, the Nordic is the best.

    There is an Artesian dealer not too far away fox hot tubs in Edwards.

    About 100 miles away there is a good Master dealer. and there are three independent service guys out there so if you stick with a good spa with standard parts you should be fine.

    I can hook you up with service guys down there as well.

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
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    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google Maps

  214. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    Hey dude

    Yeah I know sunrise well, they are from my hometown of Grimsby Ontario πŸ™‚ and jack the owner I know well.

    the shell is cradle supported and they use 2″ of batton insulation… house building code in your area say 6″ of that batton insulation is good if it’s not good enough for local building code it’s not good enough for your hot tub. … so no I cant get behind it.

    dude pop over the border πŸ™‚ your yankee bucks are worth a lot more.. hit these people up

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie said in the last 2 years we have sent them a few leads that were 100 percent sold tubs. She mentioned in the last few months maybe 1 or 2. interested in knowing more about the program. Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
    Remove
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  215. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    you can flip the spa on the side to go through the doorway πŸ™‚

    The problem with the little spas is if you put two people in them the water goes over the side… Get something wider (4 person) then just flip it on its side to get it in.

    Of the ones you mention only the Artesian garden, Azalia would I even consider.

    go look at the getaway spas, they have a lovely 4 person and you could look at the HL’s as well for comparison.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.4View in Google Maps

  216. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:31 pm

    Hey John

    When I toured the factory this winter my big concern was they were building the entry level lines to a lower spec. they seem to have a good build quality right across the board.

    I would have a look at the Clarity or getaway lines from these guys it will compare nicely.

    Leisure Works, LLC
    leisureworksaa@aol.com
    Remove
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    5204 Jackson Rd b, Ann Arbor, MI 48103
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 734-668-7665
    4.2View in Google Maps

  217. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:25 pm

    naw it will be the same spec the only difference will be the electrical will be for European.

  218. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:23 pm

    often not, some guys let you transfer the warranty most don’t. what kind of spa and how much?

    email me

  219. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    LOl no problem Bob!

    πŸ™‚

    have a great day and happy hot tubbing!

  220. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    depends on the area, if I have good service there I will sell direct.

    ill email you the details.

  221. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:20 pm

    Sure man il email you my number.

    depends where you are but at 8k the big mistake is tot ry and get to much… you need to stay simple and reliable at that price most of the stuff at that price is flashy crap.

  222. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    Hi Amanda

    Watkins is a big equity investment company, lot of goofy proprietary parts. Not a fan of the company at all. the Master, on the other hand, is in my tier, one group.

    the insulation is important but the bigger issue I would have with the Watkins stuff is the parts they use, they make them to just fit their tub instead of buying the good reliable parts in the market. good for corporate profits because they own your ass for ever for parts but bad for you… you want a spa with good reliable easy to source parts.

  223. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:15 pm

    yeah, that should be fine. it really does not matter when you set it up to run. typically the idea is 2-4 hrs a day spaced 12 hours apart.

  224. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:13 pm

    Hey Sheri

    So the rule of thumb is to ignore the sales bullshit and look at the code for a home in your area, for NL the code is Minimum R-20. the beachcomber would be there and the Masters but the Arctic would be around R-8 and the Candian spa co around R-6… just because some marketing meathead at a hot tub company says the insulation is revolutionary or new tech means squat.

  225. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:25 am

    Hi Calvin.

    You are so right, the marketing and branding is crazy good, even with the knowledge I have I still look at the really great marketing and feel all warm and fuzzy… these bastards prey on people by tricking, and taking little nuggets of truth and spinning them into monster messes…

    The Ladies down at Empress spa are my gogto down in Calgary.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
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    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  226. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:19 am

    HI Elizabeth.

    I have a super guy down there! YAY all morning I have had people in areas I didn’t have much help for but these guys have helped a lot fo, my customers, out and never have we had any issues.

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    tim@atlasspas.com
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    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004
    4.8View in Google Maps

  227. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:14 am

    Hi Warren.

    Pool guys don’t usually know much about hot tubs, their main business is pools and the fact that have good pool business doesn’t mean they are good at hot tubs. its funny pools and hot tubs are not even in the same galaxy, the parts, chemistry everything is vastly different. Vits is American whirlpool, who makes cal cooperage and Maxx. I opened up one recently and there is no way this brand will ever be on my recommended list, steel frame, cradle supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing, and cheap insulation make this an absolute no go for me. Jacuzzi, on the other hand, is the parts… never get your self into a position where you have only one source for parts, you really want a Balboa system its much much better quality and super competitive for parts.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people, by from them and get hot tub university approved on the invoice and then you can always fall back on us if need anything.

    Steve is the operation sales manager,

    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps
    26.70634, -80.09953

  228. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:01 am

    Hi Tracy

    so first lets look at the brand then the performance of the models. all of these spas are built well in theory but where guys like Master (TS and LSX) and Artesian have opened their whole operation to our inspection we have seen the factory end to end and had 100% visibility Marquis doesn’t even return calls and there is no visibility of the manufacturing so I cant say for sure.

    Performance. First of all more pumps does not mean better performance, in fact, the science says the opposite is true. Big motors and pumps have much higher efficiency and a 2 pump spa will outperform a 3 pump spa in most casesgetall those models I actually prefer the TS 8.2 and so does consumer diget the 8.2 wins the best buy award over the 8.3 every time.

    next look at jets… the little jets are cheap and flow low volumes of water, the big ones are expensive and flow high volumes and are the better massage jets for long-term therapy value. I want at least one seat with al high flow jets and the ability to put a whole big pump to just that seat. the Show only has 7 of these good therapy jets and the rest are the cheap low flows… the TS and the LSX have one main seat all with Hi flows and in the case of the TS almost all the jets are the high flow therapy jets, these jets don’t feel as harsh and because of the higher volume of water it moves the whole muscle mass and give better long-term effects. Then there are the big monster jets in the TS and LSX these are awesome! you can put a whole pump on them and for lower back feet legs etc they are insane..So in my yard, i have a TS 8.2 and in my opinion, its one of the best therapy massage spas out there.

    Expo pricing is on par with any good high volume dealer.

  229. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 10:47 am

    The only brand they carry that i can endorse is the Nordic and thats only in my tier 2 entry level class.

  230. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 10:39 am

    Hi Andy

    I had the chance to have a quick look at the inside of a Vita and I was not impressed thin metal frame, no clamps on the plumbing, a cradle supported shell and a goofy low-cost insulation system that would never meet code for a home. You know its madness, we would never be having this conversation about insulation in the housing industry because you simply would get a permit, and just because some meathead marketing group is selling this crap in hot tubs as the newest tech in no way changes the fact that in the 80’s and 90’s your state issued warnings about reflective foils.

    Hot Springs is overpriced, their marketing budget takes this tub from where it should be in the middle range to the high end, the control system alone makes it a no-go for me, thats invensys system has had massive heater relay board failures, ton sof spa side controller failures (its why they put the control on the outside its the only way they can get it to work reliably as it cant survive the harsh conditions inside πŸ™‚ I really really am adamant that in no way ia it a good idea for the end user to have a product that has gone and made parts to only fit thier hot tub instead of using the really good repliable redily available and competitvely priced top oEM parts. I want parts I can get anywhere are going to be reliable and competitively priced.

    Man, I can’t find anything close to you down there at all I got a guy 150 miles away and he does do a lot of business in and around the area ping him and see if he has service down there.

  231. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Hey Doug

    The Bullfrog is not a bad tub and a lot better than some, and that price is good. the insulation is good parts good, just the ABS shell I really am not a fan of, honestly the biggest issue I have with it is all the BS marketing about the efficiency of the plumbing and the goofy pads which add zero value and restrict where jets can go.

    Russos pools and spas do Marquis which is just in my top brand list but I don’t know anything about them, you also have Kelly and Michele down at the spa shop, they carry the Masters same insulation and parts as the BF but a much better shell.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle
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    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

  232. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 6:24 pm

    Hi Guys.

    That’s the old stomping grounds I got a good friend down there that can help you, his name is Griffin Ryan and he and his brother are the biggest dealers in Canada. Grif is a great guy and has great customer care.

    u also have AquaPRO Pools & Hot Tubs, in Newmarket that carry Artesian another good brand although I don’t know the dealer, the only thing with Artesian is there is zero factory support so it’s critical to get a great dealer. Ajax Hoit Tub warehouse also carries Marquis which is not quite as good as the master and Artesian.

  233. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    Hey Jon

    Tidal fit from a build standpoint is good. That 12-foot model is a funny layout, they wasted so much space with eh filters and the goofy little seat at the end then they put two full seats and steps… There is just no room in the damn thing. they should keep the smaller spas open more.

    So Cal is a very unique market, very few retailers on the ground for the population size, and literally dozens and dozens of independent service guys. let me have a look and see what I can find.

  234. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    Good advice and you are right a good dealer goes a long way.

    there is 0 difference in the water quality, all spas filter water very well and all it does is removes debris, I just don’t like the old pressure filter systems because they filter after the equipment and that just means all the debris goes through the pumps and heater before being cleaned.

  235. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    plus taxes.

  236. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Hi Mike

    Good selection the Wish is a nice spa, I have a Hot Springs coming here gonna do a video on it… Thinking I might cut it up with a chainsaw πŸ™‚

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands. because these guys are a registered HTU Allstar if you buy any of our approved brands from them you get the added security of contacting us directly if you ever have an issues!
    Remove
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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.6View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  237. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    OK

    So R-value is a measurement of heat loss (or resistance to heat loss), it’s a scientific standard which means it is real and not just marketing speak.

    The higher the R-value the better and its the only thing that really matters, the rest of the talk is marketing words, they talk about radiant heat, or thermopane, or any of the other stupid pseudoscience things. In the house building world, we don’t have these conversations because there are standards and if you do not have a high enough R-Value (R15-20 in northern states) you simply can’t get a building permit.

    It easy to figure out the R-value but for the layperson simply put you want as much insulation in the hot tub as possible, when they start talking about windows, and thermopane and radiant heat and trapping motor heat its all bullshit, you can effectively trap and reuse the motor heat with just the front area open, the rest of the spa should be full of insulation.

    By the way, the cheapest insulation to make is radiant foils, the second cheapest to make is perimeter insulation the most expensive by about 200-300% is full foam like Icynene.

  238. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    Hey Andy

    Sorry for the delay (and the delay for the next 4 posts) I had to research your area, just could not find anything I really liked down there. then I found these guys below, they carry artesian. I can’t speak to the reliability of the dealer and in this case dealer is important, I have almost no independent service guys down there.

    I tried calling these guys to gauge their knowledge and got a machine, the close Sat at 2 pm…

    And they don’t have their email posted on the website πŸ™‚ a form you have to fill out! OMG, they should hire me to fix their shop, maybe I should do a ho tub rescue show LMFAO.

    Parkway Pools & Spas
    http://parkwaypoolsspas.com/spas/
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1708 Vestal Pkwy E, Vestal, NY 13850
    parkwaypoolsspas.com
    +1 607-754-2500
    3.2View in Google Map

  239. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 11:44 am

    both are well-made spas, both are very small factories and both have really bad communication, it was 4-5 calls to actually get someone and no one returned calls. I stand behind the Artesian more so because of their openness. I went to Vegas and toured their factory and they were open and honest, Marquis won’t let me near the place, always a red flag for me when a guy that sells you 200+ spas a year doesn’t even get his calls returned πŸ™‚

    You also have 3 independent service guys around you that I have registered on the site, we see this a lot on the west coast, most of the spas out there are not bought from local shops they are bought from out of state and this has created a rich resource of independent service guys. as long as you stay away from the goofy brands like hot springs and Jacuzzi, arctic etc.. the guys using goofy parts that only for their spas, you can buy anything.

  240. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 11:29 am

    Tropic seas for sure, Artesian builds a good hot tub.

  241. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 10:49 am

    TS 7 in Canada anything under $12500 is good.
    8 footers add a grand.
    that should be delivered with a step a cover and a lifter

    don’t do concrete it’s overkill do a patio stone base, $800

    No by it stock standard and use aquafinesse or spa marvel.

    No generally the pricing at the shows is the same as a good high volume dealer.

  242. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 10:44 am

    ok so there is very little info available from a constructions standpoint but right off they have a goofy proprietary control and heating system and that’s a big issue, I want a Balboa system, they are expensive but super reliable and easy to source parts for.

    the insulation is 2 cm… that would never meet code where you live its like R4 you want like R-10 at least for your climate.

    Performance wise it looks ok, nice jetting and twin pumps but the two things above would be enpugh for me to take it off my possible list.

  243. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    I’m not a huge fan of either one of those two brands. In my head they’re kind of the reason I started this whole site, to point out where marketing trumps over reality. The truth is these companies are spending a lot of money on building brand awareness or marketing and the tub in my opinion is kind of middle of the road in quality and highly overpriced because of the added cost of all this marketing and advertising.

    I also am adamant about the parts list, the guys that are building parts to fit just their hot tubs are not doing it to give you a better tub or a better deal, the best built parts are things like Balboa and waterways CMP. When guys put proprietary parts on a hot tub it is so that they can capture you forever, so that you can never go anywhere else for parts and they can charge whatever they want. It’s a great corporate strategy for profit it’s a terrible situation for the end user.

    There is a company near you called Atlanta Spa and Leisure, they’re my first hot tub University approved All Star and these guys have literally taken care of 30 or 40 of our customers. They carry a couple of different brands, the Masters that they carry are absolutely their top-line and what I recommend.

  244. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Used tubs can be great or they can be a nightmare.

    The best thing to do if you’re looking at a used tub get the front taken off of it where the electronics in the pumps are. Set your phone for video and shoot a video of the whole area slowly pan look between the motors look at all the unions look at all that stuff and send us a copy of the video.

  245. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 11:49 am

    Hi Rick.

    It’s a bit of a desert out there πŸ™‚ pun intended…

    Sorry for the delay yer my first from the area and it takes a bit to have my team scrape all the info πŸ™‚

    You got the regular stuff like American whirlpools, CalSpa, Bullfrog, Hot Springs etc but you also have a few gems.

    You have an Artesian dealer Tucson Hot Tubs, and Marquis dealer Patio Pools and Spas, I don’t know anything about the dealers though they have not registered with us.

    You also have 3 independent service companies that specialize in hot tub service so if you have a brand with a readily available parts list you can buy anything.

    I got a super good guy up in Pheonix, reach out, 100 miles is not a lot for a good dealer if they have a service guy out near you.

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 star recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. Buy from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and make sure you get taken care of πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!

    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799

  246. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 11:24 am

    Man, I have no idea, they sell everything so it does not nail down the parts list. cant find a hot tub website, ask the guys for the contact and web info

  247. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 11:19 am

    There are so many possible answers to that question πŸ™‚ fortunately I have an app coming out for this πŸ™‚

    if you try the regular stuff like balance alkalinity and ph and you know you have lots fo sanitizer in it (chlorine, bromine or shock) then the cloud is likely detergent… common with kids… increase filter rate for a day or two and rinse filters well every 24 hrs for a day or two, get a spa ball… or change the water :-0

    reduce the soap getting in the tub by partying naked πŸ™‚ or not washing your sswim suits in with soap… also if you have kids get them to rinse beter when then shower, when guests come over risne thier suits really well…

  248. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 11:05 am

    Hey Mike

    Crazy, I grew up near there πŸ™‚

    I got a guy in Kitchener, and I kid you not this guy has taken care of at least 50 of my customers and is doing all the right stuff. I know the guy personally and he is just a nice straightforward guy that runs a good organization.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job.

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  249. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 11:05 pm

    You have a couple of artesian dealers and 3 Master dealers, Detroit is jackpot area πŸ™‚

    I have a goto guy there that has been reliable for me, check them out. the artesian guys I know the brand but not the dealers.

    Leisure Works, LLC
    leisureworksaa@aol.com
    Remove
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    5204 Jackson Rd b, Ann Arbor, MI 48103
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 734-668-7665
    4.2View in Google Maps

  250. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    email me your contact details and ill ring you tomorrow.

  251. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 7:58 pm

    There are 2 brands in Tulsa, Master and Artesian I don’t know the artesian dealer but i Know the guys down at Aqua Haven really well.

    Aqua Haven
    11083 South Memorial Drive , Tulsa, OK, 74133
    Phone918-252-7727
    Fax
    Emailryan@aquahavenspas.com
    Websitewww.aquahavenspas.com
    Remove
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    11083 S Memorial Dr, Tulsa, OK 74133
    View in Google Maps
    36.00324, -95.88555

  252. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 7:50 pm

    with as low leakage like that it is likely a jet to shell fitting,

    I would try Fix a Leak, it’s a soluble solution you put in the tub and it works well, sometimes it needs a few applications to totally seal but worth trying at like $30 a bottle…

  253. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 7:47 pm

    Wells? never heard of them, the European market has a lot fo Chinese made spas, we don’t get here because the shipping is too expensive email me any links you can find on the brochures for the manufacturer and ill look into it

  254. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 11:48 am

    Listen in the real world we do not have this stupid conversation about insulation, its a solved problem. Thermal mass is all about R-value these radiant systems were run out of the building industry back in the 80’s with the northern US states and the Canadian Mortgage housing authority all issuing formal warnings. and the motor waste heat is effectively recovered with a couple cubic feet of clean air, there is no reason to leave the other three sides under insulated except to cut costs, the expensive Icynen foams allow great access to leaks and offer three four or even five times more R-value… And that’s nothing against CSC, frankly, their spas are as good or better than 70% of the industry, certainly on par with the Hydro pools, dynasties, Hot Springs, and Jacuzzies available in your area…

    The only other choice would be the guy in Bracebridge Hot Tub Warehouse Muskoka that does Marquis.

  255. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 10:54 am

    Hey, matt my cousin lives there she is an electrician.

    let me look and see ill ping ya.

  256. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 10:48 am

    Hey John

    I haven’t really seen too much of Coast but have been hearing more about them lately, I had 2 or 3 dealers here on the east coast carry them and drop them and a year and a half or two years ago I did speak to 2 of the owners and they just said they had issues with the QC, On paper they have the right mix but I would need to see the factory, and have a unit here to tear apart before I could say more.

    60 miles is nothing, most guys send out chems and filters and for a service, an hour is not an issue for a reliable dealer.

  257. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 10:31 am

    Hey David.

    At that price the CSC tubs, not a bad buy.

    CSC is as good as most of the stuff out there, they hand roll the shells, they use good control and heating system and the insulation is on par with most tubs. it’s not in my top tier because of the insulation system but bang for the buck it’s not a bad spa. They also did a good job with the backup support, you can call them direct for general help which is rare on mass merchant spas.

    forget the horsepower crap… on the high power twin pumpers everyone is using as much of the available electrical current that is available and whether they call them by Bhp or rms, or Gph is not relevant, most of the units pump similar amounts. and everyone sets the sytem up to shut off the heater when you are running both pumps…

  258. Reply
    admin May 24, 2018 at 10:24 am

    Hi Mark

    I got some guys in Rocklyn, just signing them up we sent them a 15 or 20 customers in the past year and had good feedback. We haven’t flown out to see their setup yet but we should be soon. Meanwhile ill extend out help if you ever needed it I met these guys twice at events and had good conversations with them, they know their stuff and might have resources out there to help you.

    Any brand that does the main 4 things is at least spending the money on the tub so hand rolled self-supporting shells, Balboa controls and glued and clamped plumbing lines with an Icynene foam insulation system. This is the minimum, less than this and its off the table for me. so any of the brands Master does I like, the Artesians, the Marquis (not Vector series), the Beachcomber (non-hybrid models).

    On the high end the Twilights are my goto and my personal tub, but again I’m a busted up an old guy so it’s all about massage for me.

    check these guys out, they are good people.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    View in Google Maps

  259. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 9:26 pm

    no idea, they have been around for ages and I cant see them changing their stripes now… but I will look into it…

  260. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    Hi Dan

    Yeah, the big expo shows are pretty funny sometimes, and the hard sell can be a pain in the ass. These expos can be great or can be a nightmare it depends on the area, if there are lots of independents on the ground and a good dealer is running it then you can have a great experience, but with the wrong brand or the wrong dealer, yer screwed. The guys who run that one I think are out of Minnesota, we dug into these guys they do have a lot of these shows and are likely the biggest outfit in the US if not the world for hot tubs I would estimate these guys are doing near to 5000 spas a year (a local dealer will do 200-300) so yes lots of issues but proportionately not so much.

    The good news is the area is rich in resources so not likely that any of the complaints are coming from there, I have 20 registered independent service guys there, its crazy, one of the by-products o this little rant site of mine is the data accumulation in the industry, dealers, service guys etc and man there are hardly any dealers there compared to the population, I bet over half of all the sales there are from out of state, and with this many service guys on the ground as long as you have a good guy on this end to answer questions you should be fine.

    these guys can help you and they are not that far away.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    View in Google Maps

  261. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 8:32 pm

    Hi Jennifer

    we tried it here and the water had a slimy feel, we had to chlorinate and it did not seem very effective, I then gave it to a customer to try she returned it with the same issues, I then gave it to another and he returned it and I threw it away.

    I like a mineral system like eco pue or spa frog and a mineral system like aqua finesse or mineralux or an enzyme like spa marvel… this gets us to .5 ppm chlorine.

    email me and Ill get you instructions and tips

  262. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    I would go bullfrog, then caldera I guess… the American whirlpool I saw was not very impressive one you ripped it apart, the insulation isn’t such an issue down there but no clamps on the plumbing and cradle supported shell.

  263. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 8:25 pm

    Hi Max

    I like both brands but I am not a fan of the Vector series. I love when real innovation comes down the pip that really improves a product but from everything I can see this is not what vector 21 is.

    This is a regular tub and all they did was change the parts so you cant buy them anywhere but from them and then put a bunch of stupid names for the parts to try and fool the public into thinking it is something unique and new. I see nothing here except BS marketing and slight of hand and yer stuck with a goofy parts list that will only be available from one source at whatever price they dictate.

    now the comparison for Epic and TS 8.2, for the most part, they are very close. both tubs have twin pumps and dual diverters but the epic has a lot of the cheap small low flow jets 24 of them and only a few of the larger mid flow therapy jets whereas the TS only has 4 of the little jets and the rest are the bigger therapy jets. where the TS really walks away though is the monster jets. these are insane and if you are after massage they are the bomb, you can put a whole 6 hp pump to them and for big muscle groups they rock, I sit in the floor and do my lower back, glutes, thighs feet all the tough bits and they flow so much water that they work really well even on tough bits like feet. the epic has 3 cheap little low flow foot ticklers and no real effective foot jetting. I also find the epic cramped, where the big footwell int eh ts just makes it an open nice bathing area. The TS lighting is also on the next level. On all other areas like chemical reduction parts, build, insulation they are comparable.

    long island has a dealer:

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    Dealers # 1 631-249-7727
    https://www.suntekpoolsandspas.com
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    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  264. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 8:02 pm

    Hi Rob

    I was a founding partner and the director of operations for CSC for over a decade πŸ™‚

    I’ll be honest man for a mass merchant purchase it’s not a bad brand, good hand rolled shells, Balboa controls and glued and clamped plumbing and they have a robust back-end customer support. the only downside is the insulation system and the click in jets but frankly, that puts it in the class of 80% of the brands out there.

    That being said you can likely get as good a deal from a good high volume dealer with local support.

    Guelph is a good market have a conversation with my buddy Christian he has literally helped 30 or 40 of our customers and everything i hear back is good.

    if you took the CSC tub and added a full foam package (around $400) and a proper delivery (they curbside drop) at $250, and better jets ($300) you have a top tub, that will save you a ton on electrics, last and have better backup…

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  265. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 4:13 pm

    Ok so Dynasty and Master are vastly different spas, the Dynasty is a thin cradle supported shell vs the hand-rolled self-supporting shell on the master… Massive difference, the dynasty is gecko controls and heating Master is Balboa, Balboa is the most expensive but it is also the best by far. The insulation on the Master is 2 to 3 times more expensive and the build is way better on the master. One is a great spa one is a cheap copy.

    see these two videos on the master and dynasty

    I would not consider again like the dynasty just too many issues and Hot springs are all goofy proprietary parts and way too much spent on marketing, its an upper mid-end spa with a crazy high price tag.

  266. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    Hi Caroline

    any swimmer or hot tub can be used with solar, right now the cost of the solar will not be worth it on a well-insulated swimmer.

    unless you have an existing system with excess capacity its likely not cost effective.

  267. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    Hi Joe

    Marquis is on the edge of my recommended brand but not the vector 21 stuff. I love when real innovation comes down the pip that really improves a product but from everything, I can see this is not what vector 21 is.

    This is a regular tub and all they did was change the parts so you cant buy them anywhere but from them and then put a bunch of stupid names for the parts to try and fool the public into thinking it is something unique and new. I see nothing here except BS marketing and slight of hand and yer stuck with a goofy parts list that will only be available from one source at whatever price they dictate.

    Coyote is Arctic lower end and I am not a fan of their high end… goofy parts, no plumbing clamps, loads of marketing and gimmicks.. see the video I shot of one of their swimmers, they are the same build as their spas. that stupid spa boy thing they tout as making it automatic is BS and Salt? That’s 20-year-old tech there are way better chemical reduction systems now this is old tech being rebranded as innovation, it’s going to be 1-3 ppm of chlorine or bromine and you still need to test and dose weekly, you can only test chlorine and ph electrically and the alkalinity is the main one you need to test and adjust. its brands like this that got me pissed off enough to make this site πŸ™‚

    Dude you have way better options down there, you have artesian marquis and master. call griff he is a buddy and is the best around.

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  268. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    Hi, Ken

    Sorry or the delay in responding.

    Yeah for sure man I have a company down there that has taken care of a lot of my customers. I trust these guys and because I recommend them and the brand you can come to me if you ever have issues and we will help you out.

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
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    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google Maps

  269. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    This is easy…

    HL is like most of the top tubs, a couple pumps and a good mix of jets, for most people this is all they need.

    TS is, in my opinion, the best therapeutic massage spa out there, the massive flow rates and the huge number of high flow therapy jets and flow control and the massive monster jets put this tub in a class of its own… if it’s all about massage then TS is the tub

  270. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    Nope.

    the cost of the gas system will never be recouped on a good well insulated hot tub.

    You can convert any spa but it may affect your warranty.

  271. Reply
    admin May 23, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    Sorry for the late response, you guys are killing me here πŸ™‚

    go see these guys, I know them and the brand and it the best bang for the buck and they have a good backup and support system.

    Krevco Swimming Pools & Hot Tubs
    Approved: Master, Twilight, Clarity, MP Legend, Healthy Living, Plug and Play
    Remove
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    700 Berry St, Winnipeg, MB R3H 0S6
    http://www.krevco.com
    +1 204-786-6957
    3.3View in Google Maps

  272. Reply
    admin May 18, 2018 at 3:00 pm

    Hi Jason

    I have never been a fan of them, but I know lots of people have them. I have kids and my usage pattern is high, with a circ pump you can only filter x amount of water per day cause the pump runs 24-7 on a high flow system you can flow the same amount of water in about 6 hours or after a party can up it to filter 3 or 4 days with of water in 1 day. I also find you need to be diligent with water care and filter maintenance esp.

    its not a make or break thing and I don’t advise paying for the upgrade but if it was free… meh 50/50 πŸ™‚

  273. Reply
    admin May 18, 2018 at 2:43 pm

    HI Sam

    Yer a good child helping you parents πŸ™‚

    Sundance and Hot springs are big corporate players with 4 or5 brands each, and they are both the perfect model of the corporate branding gone mad. when you get to the nitty gritty they aren’t usually using the best parts or the best manufacturing techniques, they are rich in the marketing, brand awareness, brochures and they are expensive because of it and IMHO they are mid grade when it comes to the things I know makes a good reliable, easily service unit.

    There is a dealer I know and they carry master which is one of my top 5 picks.

    Leisure Works, LLC
    Remove
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    5204 Jackson Rd b, Ann Arbor, MI 48103
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 734-668-7665
    4.3View in Google Maps
    42.2885, -83.83164

  274. Reply
    admin May 17, 2018 at 7:21 pm

    Hi Paula

    I get so much action down there and there are just no great local options, not many dealers there because over the years the traveling sales have taken over in this area. there are a lot of good service guys around though and I got a guy a ways from you but its worth it, he has lots of spa in and around the area and has a good reputation and is an award-winning operation.

    The Caldera and jacuzzi are a goofy spa with goofy parts that are over branded middle range and overpriced, I really am not a fan of brands that spend more on branding than on building good tubs. these guys put goofy parts in so they can own you forever for parts πŸ™‚ you want a Balboa control and heating systems at least… the dynasty… well the video speaks for itself…

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
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    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  275. Reply
    admin May 17, 2018 at 7:11 pm

    You got a marquis dealer in Madison and a master dealer right there:

    Master Spas of Southern WI
    2242 W Bluemound Road Suite A, Waukesha, WI, 53186
    Phone 414-607-8827
    Fax :414-607-8826
    Email kwhueff@gmail.com
    Remove
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    2242 W Bluemound Rd Suite A, Waukesha, WI 53186
    masterspaswi.com
    +1 414-607-8827
    3.2View in Google Maps

  276. Reply
    admin May 17, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    Hi Dan

    hard to say because things like usage, and how sheltered the location is will have a massive factor.

    for average usage of 3 days, a week for 20 mins count on a buck a day averaged over the year. for any really well insulated spa

  277. Reply
    admin May 17, 2018 at 12:01 pm

    Hey Dan

    Sorry for the delay been a mad house around here. I would have to say the hydro pool or the dynasty would be in similar states and I would not put either in my showroom or my customers back yards.

    dude yer Philly, you have way better choices, the H2x Line is made by the guys who invented swim spas, its deeper flows way more water, has more features has 2-3x the r-value and I got a guy there that has literally helped out 30+ of my customers and I have heard nothing but good things back.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care and they need to be carrying a line we like. When you buy from an Approved All-Star you can use us if you ever have issues.

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    dhenry1201@gmail.com
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    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  278. Reply
    admin May 16, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    The Beachcomber is built better but performance wise it’s lackluster, the Bullfrog likely has slightly better performance but the shell is not great. I would go beachcomber out of those two but stay away from the hybrid system.

    I also have a guy I use a lot down there I know him well and have sent him at least 25 or 30 customers and have had nothing back but good stuff.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.

    Called twice left message.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  279. Reply
    admin May 16, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    Hi Lynn

    in some areas, it matters a lot if they are not local but in markets like yours, it’s not. I have literally have 13 independent service guys registered down there so you won’t have any issues with service if you ever get a stuck call or email me and I’ll get someone to help you.

    In these markets where the property values are too high, the local retailers are dying like flies, most of the tubs sold there are through events and tent sales, you just know when you see this many local service people that its a changed market.

  280. Reply
    admin May 16, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Hi Paula

    Syracuse is its own unique little enigma. We do not have very many retailers nor do I have tons of independent service guys on the ground (3 locally).

    Man, I can not recommend the dynasty, that video was pretty conclusive man that spa failed and failed and failed till the guy got pissed off enough to trade it for almost nothing, he took a hit of six of seven k on that tub. The caldera is def a better option, and I’m not really a fan of it either but if you have a good dealer you could be ok on that one. There are three classes of manufacturers. Run of the mill… this is most of the brands out there they will do one or two of the 4 important things than a few cut corners (shell, parts, insulation, plumbing) Then you have the sweet spot guys, very few of them but they do all of the top 5 things. then you have the expensive big corporate brands that are expensive and marketed really well and come across as high end, but these guys are usually very savvy at making a profit (corporate bottom line) and so they trap you with proprietary parts which in my opinion is the worst scenario, specialist service, and parts requirements really limits you, and you pay whatever they demand because they have a stranglehold on the parts. Jacuzzi, caldera, hot springs, arctic… these range from diabolically cheap spas being sold as the top end at stupidly high prices to upper middle spas being sold at the top end.

    I did find one brand on my good guy list over in Rome at Rome pools and spas the Marquis line is kind of on my preferred brand list but the lack of visibility (the only brand I endorse who won’t let us see their factory)

    I got a goto guy a little way away from you but they might have a service guy locally:

    Concord Pools & Spas
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    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  281. Reply
    admin May 15, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Hi Kathy.

    Either one but make the decision based on the local dealer. These spas run expensive but the biggest problem is the goofy parts, these tubs are a pain in the ass to get service for the independents often won’t touch them because getting parts is a pain and expensive, usually these guys carry the standard parts so they can service quickly but as soon as you hit the goofy mode your waiting for parts. You want a dealer with in-house service that has been carrying the line for years and stocks parts.

    I do on the other hand have 13 registered independent service guys down there… That’s crazy for the market size, You must have a bunch of big hot tub sales events there and they must have been going for a long time to have this many guys doing service.

    If you stick to a good easy to source parts list you can buy anything there and get a good backup service level.

  282. Reply
    admin May 15, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    Spas are not usually priced unless it’s the cheap stuff. There are a lot of options that can affect price and regionally the costs to sell and take care of customers varies drastically.

    Aspen eh? damn your gonna make me work for it today aren’t you?

    Ok that wasn’t so bad, right away the no-name electronic control system (make sure you get Balboa) and the high tech insulation from the 80’s πŸ™‚ that pitch about efficiency is wack, it’s like someone who knows nothing at all about heat retention, thermal drift, R-value wrote it πŸ™‚

    its what it appears to be a cheap spa. I assume its a cheap price?

    Dude, I got a goto guy down there that does a great job, he is a bit away from you but he has solid entry-level spas that are well built and good prices.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.

    Called twice left message.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Goo

  283. Reply
    admin May 15, 2018 at 3:03 pm

    hard to say but it is def past its life expectancy.

    I would not put 2k into it. but how did they get to 2k whats it need???

    email me

  284. Reply
    admin May 15, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    I generally like artesian, I went to the factory in Vegas this winter and although its a small operation they are building good hot tubs.

    Performance wise that’s an entry level there are only two of the expensive hi flow jets and the rest are the small low flow and mid flow, middle of the road all the way.

    The problem I have with these spas is the old foot domes. Man everyone got rid of these damn things decades ago. so many downsides and zero upsides. so first they are useless, those little 2″ high-pressure low flow jets do not move anywhere near enough water for a foot massage, feet are tough old dogs you need something like the big 10″ monsters and the ability to divert a whole pump to them… Now the downsides… First, the things are a serious tripping hazard, they are dangerous as hell the number of people who trip and fall over those stupid things is epic. Underneath the floor of a hot tub is very little room so we’ve only got a couple of inches of insulation under there, with a floor suction you need to put a fitting in the floor and then put a pipe running under the floor. There is no insulation now where that pipes running which means you are flowing all that hot water right across the cold ground and bleeding tons of heat through conduction! Most manufacturers have gotten away from putting any plumbing under the floor of the tub for that reason, also it’s the number one source of leaks because everyone is always stepping on the floor suction and it gets loose and starts to leak.

  285. Reply
    admin May 14, 2018 at 4:53 pm

    Hi, Pat, I don’t πŸ™

    but if you find a spa you like make them take the front off so you can see the motors and controls.

    take your camera and shoot a video slowly pan around the inside and look closely at the motors esp between the motor and the pump head, check the cover, it should be light and easy to open send me the video on chris@hottubuniversity.com and ill give you feedback.

  286. Reply
    admin May 14, 2018 at 4:33 pm

    Isabelle

    I like the deep option, it just gives you so much more water to move around in. the 60″ swimmer gives you a water depth of 4′ 4″ so you are up to your neck in water, its way better for both resistance training water yoga, water aerobics and weight training against the current.

    The Endless jetted spas usually come with a tether to augment the flow then the H2X version has great all-around performance for anybody except efficient swimmers who are competitive, then the endless water wheel system is good for pool and still water swimmers and then the Phelps is the one for pro athletes, triathletes, and open water swimmers. The Phelps is the one they use in USA swimming centers for the US national teams,

  287. Reply
    admin May 14, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    Hey Justin

    The only local brand I would look at would be the Artesian from Soakers, I don’t know the local dealer but the brand is good, have a good look at the dealer because the one weakness of the brand is no factory support, when we called posing as a customer they just referred us back to the dealer. As a fairly small manufacturer they just don’t have the infrastructure for customer direct care so you really need a good dealer, that being said you also have like 9 independent service guy out there so as long as you stay with a brand with good easily sourced parts you shouldn’t have any problems getting a tech out.

  288. Reply
    admin May 14, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    Hi Wendy

    Man, that west coast is coming up so much and its just a mess out there. I cant find a single one of my 4 or5 goto brands even my secondary ones.

    The problem is these areas have been hit really hard by tent sales, and expo sales. This used to be pretty risky and in some areas, it is but if you look at the raw data these areas can also be pretty good. what happened is after years of these guys selling hot tubs you start to see lots of small independent service guys popping up, in really mature markets these guys can be more common than dealers!

    If you have a good partner and they are good at dealing with long-distance customers it can be done right, Most of what you need from a dealer has nothing to do with proximity anymore, its got to do with timely information and knowledge, the only part that has t do with how close they are is the actual parts replacements and when you have so many of these independent guys around you that end is pretty easily handled.

  289. Reply
    admin May 14, 2018 at 12:08 pm

    Expos in some areas with some brands are a nightmare for sure.

    Imagine this scenario… You bought a brand at an event and there is no factory support. In fact, you just hit on one of my key points. if you are buying from an event make sure its a brand with factory support.

    The reality is these events in some markets are the main way tubs are being sold and the scenario you just put up could be the same with a local guy or with an event.

    I always look at problems in the field from a standpoint of how it was rectified, in your case, they got a tech out and fixed the issue and covered the cost and the reality is this was not really their fault…

    It was an issue that the electrician who connected the spa created by not reading the connection instructions, it’s clearly marked on all these dual voltage tubs from any manufacturer, the electrician needs to remove or connect a couple jumper wires and or a dip switch.

    Despite this, they covered the cost man… I have to be honest here while you posted this an example of a bad experience form a retailer and a manufacturer, the reality is this was handled right and they paid for your electrician’s error.

  290. Reply
    admin May 13, 2018 at 7:00 pm

    Hey Clayton.

    The West coast is goofy, one of the things we are noticing in some areas and Seattle is def one of them and that’s that there are not very many dealers per capita and that there are insane numbers of independent service guys in the area. every time we see this pattern it’s the same, there is an established big hot tub sale and or state fair and tent sale and a lot of the spas being both down there are being bought from out of the market. I know Hydropool did a show there a few weekends ago and the HS guy dows a few and then The dealer from Wisconsin does a big Master one there too.

    It’s funny because it is changing how hot tubs are being sold and in some cases for the better.

    The truth is most of what you need from a dealer is information and knowledge esp during the first few weeks and that has nothing to do with proximity it has to do with great communication, the actual on the ground service in these developed markets is actually easier and more reliable, I literally have seven independent service guys registered with the site there.

    It’s been funny as this site has evolved it has collected massive amounts of data on areas, and brands and we are seeing some crazy trends in some places like this.

    ill email you some info.

  291. Reply
    admin May 11, 2018 at 9:07 pm

    Yep, you can do this, you need to be diligent with the shock but I have several customers on this exact program but it’s expensive the shock is costly.

    We use a spa frog or eco pure filter and I usually keep about .5 ppm chlorine just cause you don’t notice it and it is more reliable. plus it’s risky to advise a customer to use no chlorine health and safety would frown on it

    Tip… always balance alkalinity first and take it to the high end of OK, then adjust the PH to the lower end of ok… aqua finesse like high alk low ph less foam…

  292. Reply
    admin May 11, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    Hey Alex

    I don’t know the dealers.

    SF is a strange animal, hardly any retailers for the pop size, most of that market is supplied by event sales and state fairs I literally have 24 registered independent service guys in SF area.

    Property values are so high on the coast that buying from a brick and mortar adds thousands to your costs and in these evolved markets and with that kind of support on the ground, all you really need is to stay with a good easy to source parts list and a guy like me for the teething issues.

  293. Reply
    admin May 11, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    Hi Jen

    The Artesian for sure out of that group, I toured their factory this year small but good, one thing though and it is critical… No factory support for customers, you really need to have a great dealer that knows what they are doing. While there are exceptions I like a specialty shop that just does hot tubs, these little big box stores have so many things going on that sometimes the specialist service end gets missed, even pool guys are bad sometimes because when a business allocates resources they do it based on revenue streams and if pools are making you 80% of your money then that’s where they are putting resources, when you get these places that do it all the most critical part of your customer dealer interface, mainly timely infromation can often be lacking, again on some brands its not so bad because you have factory back up but particularly with this line the dealer is critical.

    The downside is there is like nothing else out there πŸ™‚

    The biggest drawback with the swimmer itself is the depth unless you spend $10,000,000 and upgrade to the latest vacuum former you can only goto about 50″ shell depth so this means you have less than 4′ of water. A lot of times they will put a big space under the tub to make it seem deeper but get them to measure the actual depth of the shell from floor to water level, If you can get into a 60″ depth it makes a world of difference, now instead of your navel you are up to your neck in water, loads more room and 10x better for any training that you want to do or water yoga or core strengthening. If you are up to your neck then there is way more of your body being affected by the water, so for doing strength training against the flow. They also use a standard jet system so the flow volume is going to be ok but not like you can get with some of the new the new tech.

  294. Reply
    admin May 10, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    Hi Louise

    Wow yer in a great area.

    There are my top three brands out there. Master, Artesian, and marquis. all three build to a good standard with very similar parts, insulation and build standard, its why I like them, I try not to endorse brands so much as a way of building hot tubs and these three all build good solid hot tubs.

    My goto brand is Master mainly because they have 2 things the others don’t. 1st the have a customer direct line where they will help with issues both the other groups you really need to have a great local dealer because the factory won’t deal with end users. They also build a massage therapy line that is simply in a class of its own, if you really want great therapy massage nothing touches the twilight series, it has more of the expensive hi flow therapy jets and monster jets and total control over flow rates.. you can literally put anything from a trickle up to an entire 76 HP pump through the corner seat. We have toured the factory and dealt with these guys in our local market for almost a decade.

    Artesian is good and we saw the factory, and although it’s really small (like 1/10th the size of Master, they build to a good standard.

    Marquis is my third choice, not a fan of the vector line too much silliness, it seems like all they did was make the parts square so you cant buy them anywhere but from them and then change the standard names to goofy names to fool people into thinking its some radical new thing… I hate when people use gimmicks and make it sound like innovation. They are also ridiculously bad at communication, I sell them a couple hundred spas a year through and they barely return my calls, they are also the only one of my recommended brand that has not allowed us to see their production facilities which raise a lot of red flags and makes it hard to stand behind them because its all just say so until I see it first hand.

    Man, these guys are about 50 km away but worth the drive they are my goto in the area, I have great visibility of the product and I know these guys persoanlly i have sent literally dozens of customers this year and never had anything but positive come back.

    Hot Tubs Inc

    I have spent more than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands. because these guys are a registered HTU Allstar if you buy any of our approved brands from them you get the added security of contacting us directly if you ever have issues!

    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513

  295. Reply
    admin May 10, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    The Nordic and Getaway are by far way nicer looking and higher end.

    I like both Nordic and getaway, they are basically the same spas from a build and parts standpoint but if you are in a colder climate the getaway spends a lot more on insulation.

    The Nordic uses a 1/2″ of the less expensive Poly based foam and a liner of some goofy fiber material not even sealed in a vapor barrier whereas the Getaway fills the cavity with the more expensive Icynene foam the R-value is easily 2 -3 times higher R-value.

  296. Reply
    admin May 10, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    Hi Nancy

    I’m with you on Bullfrog. I love innovation that really makes an improvement but disdainful of marketing ploys with pseudoscience.

    I looked around and don’t have any local dealers there for that brand.

    You must have a big state fair there or a lot of tent sales and expos because there are like 9 independent service guys registered with us in the area.

    We’re seeing this in a few places and right down the west coast. The reality is these event sales while they were risky at first and still are with some brands and some areas in areas like this you can buy any brand that uses good standard parts and have great service. the truth is 95% or more of what you need from a dealer is information, and help with teething issues when the tubs new, the actual parts replacement in these areas is reliable.

    I’ll dig around and see what I can find.

  297. Reply
    admin May 10, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    I went through the area and I have 7 dealers and 3 independent service guys listed down there and none of my go-to brands πŸ™

    I have a guy up in Waynesville, NC 28785 I know that’s a bit far but he has helped out a few customers down there for me and with three independent service guys on the ground, you won’t have any issues getting reliable on-site service.

    These guys specialize in the long-distance care and have a great report with the local service guys. They are also almost certainly going on our all-star program because they have literally helped out about 20 of my customers and I have had nothing but rave reviews back.

    All stars are guys that we know personally, and we go to their operation and make sure the right systems are in place for great customer care before we invite them to the table. Here is a sneak pre-release of the explainer video.

    The long and short is this… If we refer you to a brand and a dealer and you buy if you have any issues you can fall back on us to help you out. With David ill never have to do that but as a consumer, it’s great to know you have the number one resource for hot tub information at your beck and call.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
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    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps
    35.511, -82.96723

  298. Reply
    admin May 9, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    Rhode Island!

    I’m coming there June 16th, to race “Ride The bull” it’s an 8-mile offshore kayak race πŸ™‚

    The 7k number is a tough one, you need to stay away from any bells and whistles and spend the money on the build, a lot of fo tubs in this range are just junk but there are a few gems.

    I would look at a roto mold the shells are good and durable and a lot less than hand-rolled glass, traditionally they have been ugly ducks and the finish and quality have been shit but Master bought one of the biggest roto mould machines in the world and took it to the next level, there is a great 2 pump model called the bar harbour that has all the right stuff, Balboa controls, CMP jets, Icynene foam and a good jetting package as well and with the enzyme system.

    I also have a great guy down there that has done a lot of work with us I trust him and he will take great care of you.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.4View in Google Maps

  299. Reply
    admin May 9, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    Man Pittsburgh is a goofy place for hot tubs, we get so much action down there and there was nothing really good available.

    I do a lot of work with a guy down in the general area and he has opened a warehouse to service that area.

    let me dig in and Ill find out some more info

  300. Reply
    admin May 9, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    Hi Eddie

    They are both equal from a build standpoint, but they differ a lot in the massage.

    Healthy living is like everybody else’s top tubs, a mix of high flow and regular jets, Twilight is a therapy monster with all high flow therapy jets and flow control systems that let you put 3 or 4 x more water through the main massage seat. its a monster watch this video…

  301. Reply
    admin May 9, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    Sunbelt is a standard run of the mill average spa.

    Like the hand-rolled shell, and the clamped joints on the pressure lines but…

    The parts list is less impressive, they use ACC heating and control systems which are mid grade at best and the jets and Safety fittings are Rising Dragon which is the cheapest Chinese stuff on the market.

    Insulation wise it is a 3β€³ closed cell foam of the shell which is fine in warmer climates.

    In some areas, we don’t have a lot of options but I got a guy I know down there Vince primo of primo spas, they have taken great care of all my customers so far and they carry master which is not only one of my top picks but its also really reasonably priced. these guys hand roll their shells and make whats called a self-supporting hull, its built like a boat hull where most guys are just slapping a layer of glass on and throwing props and supports under the shell to keep it from falling apart. The use the top parts list, and the glues and clamp the plumbing lines to prevent leaks and they use the most expensive insulation and waste heat reclaiming money can buy.

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
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    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    4.0View in Google Maps

  302. Reply
    admin May 9, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Hi John

    Probably one of the biggest changes to our market in the last decade has been water chemistry.

    I’m seeing salt systems back on the rise and while they are good for pools, in a hot tub they are pretty high chemical, unreliable, have huge failure rates, and only get you to about 1-3 ppm of chlorine, fine for a pool where it is mostly on your dermal layer which can take a lot more abuse but bad in a hot water environment where you are breathing this known carcinogen into your lungs which are way-way more susceptible to chemical damage. I’m really not a fan this is old tech, it’s unreliable, expensive, and by the standards of the newer systems high chemical.

    Hot tub manufacturers hate the new systems because they want to sell you the upgrade and capture the service and consumable revenue so a lot of times they will not even talk about the options, then you get pool guys and most of them do not have a clue about hot water chemistry, they deal with pools, it’s their main revenue stream and hot tubs are often an afterthought.

    I like an ion system (eco pure, or aftermarket like spa frog) and then ozone and either an enzyme (Spa Marvel is my goto) or a mineral salt system like Aquafinesse or Mineralux and then a good non-chlorine shock… I run my tub at .5ppm of chlorine 4-5 x lower than the salt systems and easily get a year of crystal clear nearly chemical free water. we can drop ship you year packages at a good rate.

    I’ll hunt through the area and see what I can find for you.

  303. Reply
    admin May 8, 2018 at 5:56 pm

    Hi

    Viking is not a brand I would would have on my short list, I don’t like the plastic shells and the insulation and they don’t even clamp the plumbing lines.

    Lazy boy last time I looked was just a private label built by again one of the mid-end lines.

    I have a great guy on the long island, he has helped out at least 20 or 30 of my customers over the last few years and they just carry a good solid brand at a reasonable price and have good service.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master

    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
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    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  304. Reply
    admin May 8, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    Neither are on my good guy list for various reasons, Sundance part knocks them off and the Vita doesn’t clamp the plumbing, steel frame, and the insulation while not as bad as some it is not as good as an Icynene system.

    Ill search your area and see what i can find

  305. Reply
    admin May 8, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    Hey Advocate:

    Thanks for the in-depth response and you bring up some good points, we are opening swim spa university soon πŸ™‚ We actually have done almost nothing here with swim spas yet this article you are commenting on was about a hot tub…

    Personally, I have owned and used swim spas for over 15 years for personal use and have installed literally hundreds of different swimmers all over the world. While you are right that there is a vast difference in performance you are wrong when you say they are very different beasts.

    The shells, parts, insulation, plumbing systems, filtration, framing and everything else are identical to hot tubs and frankly talking about this is the first step because if you are buying a swim spa unless it meets the standard for the build, parts, and insulation than it should be off your short list so talking about how it flows water which is really the only difference between hot tubs and swim spas is a moot point if its a crappy build…

    The swim current is a big thing and you are correct, there are massive differences between the various models and also a massive difference in the requirements for different customers.

    Regular people who want to burn a few calories and use it as a year-round pool can be satisfied even with basic systems which uses low water volumes under higher pressures, typically because they are not efficient swimmers and are not doing serious training they want smooth flat current because it’s easy to swim in so the endless is a good option for these people…

    However high-performance athletes don’t want this, this is especially true with triathletes and open water swimmers. Smooth current is easy to swim in and engages a certain muscle group, open water like a lake and higher current proper swim trainers that flow massive volumes of water under a lower pressure have more movement in the water and this engages up to 5 times more muscles that are required for stabilization, for core and high-end fitness you don’t want still or easy smooth water you want a serious workout that is going to prepare you for open water swimming which is turbulent as hell.

    Personally having swum in both of the top two swimmers I found the endless current too flat, I race competitively and train 5 days a week the workout I get in a Phelps is a lot better than what I got in the endless. I think the endless is great for general fitness but for serious training, the Phelps rules especially with its interval training that varies the current flow. Also, the 60″ depth allows for way-way more static resistance for working out against the current with resistors for weight training aerobics, water yoga, and strength training.

    I’m getting an endless in for evaluation soon because I could not tear the one I swam in apart πŸ™‚ we will see if it matches the build on the Phelps which I recently tore apart πŸ™‚

  306. Reply
    admin May 8, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    Hi Marshall

    My friend is flying down to Houston today, weird coincidence.

    I have 2 good brands down there and one of them is def my goto guy, I have sent dozens of customers to Vince down at primo and never heard a bad thing, he’s got good brands and great customer care levels.

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go-to brands.

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    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
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  307. Reply
    admin May 8, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    Hi Shaun

    The Watkins group and the like are one of the reasons I started this advice site, I was so tired of these companies tricking the public with slick marketing and high prices for what is really middle of the road products, things like proprietary parts are not put on spas to make them better, there are no better parts in the world for hot tubs than the top OEM parts out fo the states that have been around forever and are competitively priced. My golden rule is I would never buy or sell a brand that did not have a solid readily available OEM parts list.

    performance wise they are very entry level with twin 3hp (brake hp) pumps and very basic jetting, there are only three or four of the mid flow jets and none fo the high flow therapy jets and the rest are all the cheap little jets.

    I don’t know how they insulate but the last spa I saw from them had cheap poly foam and when it leaked the customer literally ended up cutting it in half to get it out the sides could not even come off.

    Vancouver has a lot of better brands available there is a beachcomber dealer out there the build is much better and the parts are top but again they don’t do anything in the high-end performance ranges again lots of little inexpensive jets and only a few of the high flow therapy massage jets.

    Van is a funny market, in some markets it is critical to have a local dealer but in these developing markets not so much.

    Property values are so high there that buying from a brick and mortar store adds a couple grand to your hot tub price.

    For that reason around half the hot tubs in the area are bought through event sales and fairs, home shows and online. This has created a rich pool of independent service guys if you stick with a brand that uses the good standard parts list you can get as good or better on the ground service.

  308. Reply
    admin May 3, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    Hi David

    I stayed away from the LSX because it used to come with a circ pump and you could not order it without one and I hate circ pumps… Biggest gimmick to hit hot tubs in 20 years next to insulation. for 2018 its standard with a high flow filtration system!

    I like the LSX it’s a great hot tub, but for overall performance, I love the Twilight spas. great jetting and great flow control.

  309. Reply
    admin May 2, 2018 at 10:48 pm

    Hey Eric.

    I like either the spa marvel or aquafitness, with an ion like spa frog or eco pure and small amount of chlorine.

    email me if you want tip sheets

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  310. Reply
    admin May 2, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    Yeah i got a goto guy there he has taken care of a pile of my customers and not had any issues, he is an old school hot tub guy and has a great reputation.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care and they need to be carrying a line we like. When you buy from an Approved All-Star you can use us if you every have an issues and we will wack them into compliance with our big stick πŸ™‚

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    dhenry1201@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106

  311. Reply
    admin May 2, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    Hi Paul

    CSC is frankly like most spas, some good some middle and some bad. I like the hand-rolled shell and the heating equipment is Balboa which s the best it gets, I don’t like the jets, they are the old style click-ins and they traditionally have been problematic. they do clamp the plumbing but the insulation is pants.

    ill see what else I can find near you

  312. Reply
    admin May 2, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    Hi Edward

    wow you did all my work for me πŸ™‚

    Marquis is a funny one, I like them on paper but they are the only one of the brands I like that have not allowed us to see their factory to verify, they are also almost impossible to get ahold of so you really need to have a good dealer and I don’t know those guys at all. Thier lines also dont go right up tot he super high-end therapy spas.

    personally if you are looking for a great spa go see the Twilight spas. These are built right and are monsters when it comes to performance, check out the video I shot of mine: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

    I also have a great guy down there that has been in this industry for ages and will 100% take great care of you, I have sent at least 20 customers there this year and have had nothing but great responses back from them.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care and they need to be carrying a line we like. When you buy from an Approved All-Star you can use us if you ever have issues you can fall back on us to help.

    John sales manager

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps
    40.20919, -75.13903

  313. Reply
    admin May 2, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    Hi Chandra.

    So 5-6 is tough for a compact, you really need a 7-foot spa for this, there are some really open seating arrangments look for big footwells! and open barrier-free seating.

    There is a great little spa called the Ochos Rios which should fit the bill, its compact deep and can fit 4-5 people and there are some really open 7 footers like the newly designed clarity line, great clean open space for really packing people in.

    These guys carry both lines give them a ring and see if they can help.

    Spas Factory Direct
    Emailspamanone@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3919 Grape Rd, Mishawaka, IN 46545
    +1 574-272-2160
    5.0View in Google Maps

  314. Reply
    admin May 2, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    Hi Karren

    You don’t have to sacrifice quality or longevity for a portable. while a lot of the stuff in that market is cheap and cheerful there are a couple of these that are great for reliability build, parts and insulation.

    The big difference in the higher end lines assuming you are buying a good brand is the massage therapy, as you get into the higher end lines you will find that the number of the large hi-flow therapy jets increases.

    These guys carry a few good lines, they have the getaway hot tub line that in my opinion is the best-made portable out there and they are priced right, they also have the super high-end therapy massage spas.

    I got a guy near you go see him he will be able to help you out.

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.

    Remove
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    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    4.1View in Google Maps

  315. Reply
    admin May 1, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    Hi Butch

    Fibromyalgia is helped a lot by the heat and because of the sensitivities the little high-pressure jets can be a little too much, I know my cousin’s wife likes the jets really low so something with lots of high flow jets and lots of flow control is good.

    isn’t there also sometimes sensitivities to chemicals with fibromyalgia?

    Also, the athlete thing is all about the big jets and flow control… The little cheap jets you see in spas feel like they do a lot but there is no water volume so they just don’t don’t move enough muscle mass to give you long-term advantages, they feel like they do a lot because they assault the dermal layer where all the never endings are but Hi flow low pressure is where you need to be for massage.

    There are 2 brands that I like down in Columbia or one I really like that does sell down there and has a service guy in the area.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

  316. Reply
    admin May 1, 2018 at 6:05 pm

    dude, there is a new store there they do masters

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
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    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

    there is also an Artesian dealer, good build and nice tubs but nothing quiote tot he level of the twilights if therapy massage is what yer after.

  317. Reply
    admin May 1, 2018 at 12:20 am

    Marquis is built right I wouldn’t have the Arctic on my list. there are a couple beachcomber guys as well, I am not a fan of the Hybrid system, its old school but the build is good.

    You could try my buddy Griff but I’m not sure if he goes out that far try him on griffryan@hotmail.com

    Ajax Hot Tub Warehouse
    Marquis
    Remove
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    322 Fairall St, Ajax, ON L1S 1R6
    http://www.ajaxhottubwarehouse.com
    +1 289-482-1203
    5.0View in Google Maps

    Beachcomber Durham
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    701 Brock St N, Whitby, ON L1N 8R3
    +1 905-665-1649
    View in Google Maps

  318. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    Hey Larry

    The Whole West coast is a twilight zone. So many expos, tent sales, state fairs, home shows, and hardly any dealers for the population size.

    I only have 6 or 7 decent sized retailers on record there and I have 8 Independent service guys registered! Wackadoodle

    Anyway, I don’t see any Master guys down there, there is an artesian guy and I’m not sure when the next sale comes through.

    I have personally used 2 of the Independent service guys and they were reliable and good and I can hook you up if you do ever need anything.

  319. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    Hi Tammy, the self-cleaning thing is the issue, it’s old school nobody does this anymore.

    The shell on the Hydropool is cradle supported vs hand rolled self-supporting on the Twilight

    The Twilight has way more of the expensive hi flow therapy jets.

    The insulation on the Hydropool would never meet code for your house so it’s not near good enough for your hot tub.

    Build, performance, insulation, for me the TS wins hands down, they are not in the same class.

  320. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    So I spent some time going over everyone out there-there are a couple tier 2 guys like Coast and Cal but none of my tier one guys anywhere around.

    I spoke to a guy Named Ryan Connoly down there and he has independent service in the area and is approved by like 5 different manufacturers. He says he installs a lot of fo tubs from guys doing home shows, fairs, and sales down there. it might open up your choices.

  321. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    I’m general they are good spas esp from build quality, make sure the dealer is sold because the factory is terrible with customer care you need a strong dealer. performance wise the TS series would have a lot more fo the high flow therapy jets so if massage is the big thing.

    Seattle is a funny market, like the rest of the west coast its serviced mostly by expos, tent sales, and state fairs, I have over 8 independent service guys registered and one is an all-star.

    Also these guys do artesian, the same build as the Twilight and the Marquis.

    Black Pine Hot Tubs, Swim Spas, Saunas, Billiards
    Status : Unverified

    We stand behind Artesian, island spa, South Spa, Garden Spa and Platinum Elite.
    Remove
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    7711 Lake Ballinger Way, Edmonds, WA 98026
    blackpinespas.com
    +1 425-771-5774
    4.2View in Google Maps

  322. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    Hi Darin

    I went through 20 options out there for you and there are all the usual suspects with the big branding and marketing and mid-grade spas and I would put Sundance into that group… goofy proprietary parts and big prices…
    There is a beachcomber dealer but again stay away from Hybrid models and they don’t do anything int he high-end therapy massage spas, the performance is middle of the road and the price is wackadoodle their suggested retail is twice what they are worth, and even their sales prices are expensive.

  323. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    You cant go too far wrong with the Nordic, well built good parts and clamped plumbing, the insulation is middle of the road.

  324. Reply
    admin April 30, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    Hey Jim

    I went through the 15 or so guys down here and man this is one of those goofy markets without a lot of good options on the ground, but its also an area with 5 independent service guys, I suspect you must have a regular parade of tent sale and expo events, and state fairs.

    There are 2 guys one in New Orleans and one in Batton rouge that do Artesian which is a good line, I don’t know about the dealer though.

    I spoke to a few of the independent service guys and the one especially really seemed to know his stuff.

    Try these guys, they list artesian and garden leisure:

    Billiot Pools & Spas LLC
    Status unverified:
    Garden leisure

    Remove
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    555 Lapalco Blvd, Gretna, LA 70056
    billiotpoolsandspas.com
    +1 504-433-5455
    4.2View in Google Maps

  325. Reply
    admin April 28, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    Nope. Pinnacle was or is part of premium leisure I think they were out of Florida but I remember hearing they were bought, maybe by the guys in Tennessee who have Maxx and Vita??? Not sure ill have to check.

    We had a guy sell a pile here and run away and we are servicing them.

    The ones here have very little insulation, cradle supported shells, and only some of them have Balboa controls.

  326. Reply
    admin April 27, 2018 at 2:19 pm

    HI

    There are a few choices there.

    there is a Marquis dealer but we don’t have visibility of their business so while we like the brand, Marquis is a brand that you need a top dealer for because if you call the factory they just send you back to the dealer.

    The other option is my personal goto brand Master, It’s what I sell in my local market out here in nowhere Nova Scotia πŸ™‚ I know them and know they are good with the back end and customer care.

    with these guys if you ever needed help you can call them, master, or me.

    Dougs Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Endorsed Brands: Master Spas

    Met these guys in Fla good bunch with a great brand –
    Remove
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    5121 S Campbell Ave, Springfield, MO 65810
    http://www.dougspoolandspa.com
    +1 417-882-7665
    4.6View in Google Maps

  327. Reply
    admin April 27, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    Hi Chris

    We drilled down into your area but there is little available near you. there is, however, a couple independent service guys around though so that opens up a few brands if you stick to brands with good readily available parts.

    These guys specialize in remote sales, and they do a great job for remote areas like yours and with the service guys out there you should be able to get a good level of support.

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Dealers # 1 215-420-7106
    https://www.eastcoastspas.com/

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care and they need to be carrying a line we like. When you buy from an Approved All-Star you can use us if you every have an issues and we will wack them into compliance with our big stick πŸ™‚

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  328. Reply
    admin April 27, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    yeah for your area its a good bet not much choice out there. Only other thing I could find was hydropool…

  329. Reply
    admin April 27, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    I like Marquis except you need to make sure you have a great dealer because the factory communication is nonexistent… I sell these arseholes like 100 tubs a year and they can’t even be bothered to return my calls… crazy disconnect…

  330. Reply
    admin April 27, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    I always like a good solid easy spa for these applications. you don’t need tons of flash and hype you need reliability and ease.

    Also more remote means more critters so the one-piece design of the rotomoulded spas makes a lot of sense.

    Nordic spas, or getaway spas or even the ugly little duckling from free flow.

    this is the unit I would get… its the best built and insulated of the group.

  331. Reply
    admin April 27, 2018 at 12:54 pm

    Hi Mark

    Not a fan of the hydro pool esp the insulations.. man if it does not meet code for your house then it’s not near good enough for a hot tub… In the 80 these reflective foils were all over the building industry with the same outrageous claims that the hot tub industry now uses… All the northern US states and the Canadian Mortgage Housing authority issues warning and the CMHA went so far as to say it was one of worst insulation systems ever tested. if you went and told a builder you were using this crap in your house as a primary insulator when he finished laughing he would simply say no you ar not… you will never get a BUILDING PERMIT… The fact that some marketing meathead as spun it up into pseudoscience BS in no way changes the really real world hard scientific data that says this stuff is not effective at containing heat in a system.

    So I went through the area and there is an established dealer in Windsor that carries master, its one of the best tubs out and I can’t find any beachcomber, marquis or artesian around you.

    Bluewater Pools & Spas
    Details from Google Maps
    2541 Dougall Ave, Windsor, ON N8X 1T5, Canada
    bluewaterpools.ca
    +1 519-969-8561

  332. Reply
    admin April 26, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Hey man

    there are some good options down there. but for really high-end performance stuff go see the Twilight or the MPL Legends at these guys

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. Buy from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice. You can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to whack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps
    33.34117, -111.96728

  333. Reply
    admin April 26, 2018 at 4:48 pm

    Hi Mo.

    You should be confused because there are just no code standards in hot tub insulation and the industry is awash in cheap crap with fancy marketing.

    We don’t have these stupid arguments in the building industry where you need to meet code for insulation standards… its easy if the insulation system would not meet code to build your house then it is simply not good enough for your hot tub. all this bullshit about free heat is goofy, all tubs reuse motor heat you don’t need all that empty airspace you just need a couple cubic feet of air around the motors and you can draw that heat off and inject it through the ozone system right into the water… good full foam spas will maintain 85 with the heater disconnected just off the waste heat from motors.

    If you told your builder you were going to use Mylar like the Hydropool he would laugh his ass off… that stuff was abandoned in the building industry decades ago after the Canadian Mortgage housing authority rated it as the worst performing insulation they had every tested and all the northern US states issued warnings about fraudulent claims of outrageous R values…. This stuff is cheap and nowhere near good enough.

    Similarly, if you told him you are going to use 2″ of cheap poly foam like the Arctic again he would say no you are not because it would never meet code… These companies that spend more on marketing and bullshit than on the hot tub do my head in, it’s a crazy world we live in when the reality and science is bulldozed over by flash marketing bullshit. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/arctic-spa/

    Only the bullfrog would meet code for insulation, and if wasn’t for the ABS plastic shell I would say go but these plastic shells are too weak to support their own weight and have to be held together with pedestals supports to keep them from falling apart… you want a hand-rolled vinal ester cored self-supporting shell…

    The only brand I would even look at out there would be the Beachcomber and that’s barely and only if you stay with the leep (stay away from hybrid it is old outdated tech) https://www.hottubuniversity.com/beachcomber/
    Beachcomber Hot Tubs OrlΓ©ans
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    1993 St Joseph Blvd, OrlΓ©ans, ON K1C 1E5
    beachcomberorleans.com
    +1 613-837-2929
    4.9View in Google Maps

  334. Reply
    admin April 26, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    Hi Mark.

    Pool guys are rarely great hot tub dealers, the problem is that 80% of their revenue is the pool business and they rarely know a lot about hot tubs… its why most of the big marketing brands with the mid-grade overpriced spas are always sold by pool guys… hot tub guys know better πŸ™‚ its clearly evident by the number of lines they carry and the fact that the lines are wildly diverse… The only one I would consider is the Artesian the rest are crap.

    Dude go see the guys at hot tubs Inc. the do hot tubs better than anyone out there, the masters they a=carry are built the same as the Artesians and they have Twilight that beats anything for performance.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands. because these guys are a registered HTU Allstar if you buy any of our approved brands from them you get the added security of contacting us directly if you ever have issues!

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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.6View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  335. Reply
    admin April 26, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    Acrylic spas in this price range are usually pretty dodgy, its almost impossible to put out a good spa with good insulation at this number, I really think the best bang for the buck in that price is the Getaway Hot Tubs. The CSC tub has a great shell good plumbing and good parts but cheap jets, and crap insulation, and the QCA is worse.

    The new shells and design on the Bar Harbour are amazing, the color is awesome and looks clean and rich, its built right has the top parts, and plumbing and they spend the money on a solid full foam Icynene system so it has 5x the r value fo these low-end perimeter insulation systems.

    Man go see Ben down at East coast he has these in stock and can help do this right for you.

    EAST COAST SPAS INC.
    Full Address1424 Easton Road, Suite 300, Horsham, PA, 19040
    Phone732-823-8606
    FaxFax:732-791-9570
    Emailben@eastcoastspas.com

    This new

  336. Reply
    admin April 26, 2018 at 2:46 pm

    Hi James

    The nearest guy is like 200 miles away.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

  337. Reply
    admin April 25, 2018 at 11:07 am

    Hi Mark

    It’s a shit show, isn’t it? I swear this world of bullshit marketing selling crap and saying anything with little or no scientific reality is maddening… It was the whole reason I started this site.

    Listen the guy that owns Best Buy Pools & Spas is a great guy, I know him spent a few days at a conference with him and he’s doing a good job up there, Ill get you in touch with him and have a look at the Masters, they are solid well built units priced reasonably.

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    +1 440-623-7554
    3.2View in Google Maps

  338. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 7:33 pm

    WOW, it’s a west coast bonanza!

    That’s 4 in a row in this goofy changing marketplace we are seeing out there.

    There is the usual suspect with big brand marketing budgets putting out overpriced mid grade spas.

    And you have one Gem… one of the most highly recognized pool guys out there and they have been doing spas for ages. These people are fanatical about customer care.

    Valley Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Approved brands: Master, H2X, MPL, Twilight, Phelps swim spas

    I spent 3 days with the wonderful folks from valley Pool and spa. These guys are in a class of their own and carry my goto brand Master.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1659 Cary Rd, Kelowna, BC V1X 2C1
    http://www.valleypoolandspa.com
    +1 250-860-2266
    4.1View in Google Maps

  339. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    Hi Joel

    Its funny the west coast has been a hot spot for us and it took a little while and a lot of data collection to see why but once we had all the dealers and independent service guys and State fairs, tent sales and expos mapped out a pattern is emerging and it’s showing a real change in how hot tubs are sold in these markets.

    There are hardly any retailers left out there and the ones that are specifically the big marketing guys with all the goofy parts.

    If you stick with a good brand with standard parts list you are golden, there is literally 10 independent service guys down there.

    There is literally not a brand at a retailer that I could recommend to you.

  340. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    Dealers # 1 631-249-7727
    https://www.suntekpoolsandspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.4View in Google Maps

  341. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    Hi Lindsay

    That video is a bit wack, They make a good shell but unfortunately for Arctic that is the only of the big 5 things they get right, the rest is no name parts, no clamps on the plumbing and an insulation system that would never meet code to build a house so just because they have some wackadoodle story about big air spaces being insulation and magic fairies that make free heat in no way changes the hard fact that its a cheap insulation system that would never even come close to meeting building code. I doubt they have the ability to do a full Icynene foam its a whole different system that they use to spray the less expensive poly based foam.

    They are using a lot of scare tactics that are based on misinformation.

    1. They say that because they build a good shell they don’t have to insulate, this is just crazy they are referring to 20 years ago when guys would build a thin shell and then use cheap poly foams that harden to give the shell strength, no one fills spas with poly foam anymore, they use the expensive Icynene foam and it never hardens and therefore does not support the shell, they know this but they make it sound like some innovation… the truth is guys that are building great tubs are building the same hand rolled shells then spending the money to fill the caivity.
    2. they talk about that big airspace being insulation and that’s just wrong.. the whole idea of insulation is to slow down heat transfer by breaking the air into tiny pockets. big air spaces are nothing and have no R-value.
    3. they talk about reusing motor heat but all tubs do this and you don’t need 4 sides with no insulation… you can effectively capture motor heat and reuse it with a couple cubic feet of free air and then properly insulate the rest of the spa.

    I’m not a fan at all of this brand, its a mid-grade spa that is over marketed and way overpriced for what it is.

    The whole west coast is a goofy market, there are loads of these tents sales, and expos and state fairs and the truth is most of the spas sold out there are bought from out of the market.

    I literally have 15 independent service guys in my system in the surrounding area, its crazy…

    I’m just doing a video about it, it’s really changing how hot tubs are being sold and serviced in some areas.

    It’s funny the reality is great dealers are great not because of proximity they are great because of communication and good timely information, 90% of your customer-dealer relationship is this and the reality is if you stay with a good easily sourced parts list these guys can make parts replacement a dawdle.

    In these areas, the only retailers I find on the ground are the big marketing meatheads with their mid-grade spas and goofy parts.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the marquis, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.3View in Google Maps

  342. Reply
    admin April 20, 2018 at 8:08 pm

    so that system is inexpensive and that pitch is wack πŸ™‚ I love the part where he points to the big space of nothing and tries to explain how big air spaces are insulation πŸ™‚

    it comes from a pitch in the olden days when guys would fill the cavity with old poly based foams that would turn into a rock. then they could use a weak shell and the foam would be a lot fo the support but leak detection and repair was a nightmare…

    They know damn well that the new expensive foams do not harden, offer support, or make leak detection harder to do.

    its cheap to put 2″ of low-end poly based foam on the skirt, it’s expensive to fill the cavity with Icynene foam… I doubt they even have the tech to offer this option and even if they did with the no-name proprietary parts and the fact that they don’t clamp the plumbing lines it would still be a no-go for me.

    The rule of thumb is easy… if the insulation system does not meet local building regulations then it’s not good enough for your hot tub.

    I also noticed you are in So Cal.

    That’s a wack market, there are so few retailers they have almost all be driven out by the constant Expo sales, state fairs sales and tent sales and this has created a massive resource of independent service guys. Most of the tubs in this market are now sold directly the reality is the game is changing a bit in these areas. With all these independents the dealer customer relation really comes down to good information and timely communication.

  343. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 11:42 am

    The whole west coast is a goofy market, there are loads of these tents sales, and expos and state fairs and the truth is most of the spas sold out there are bought from out of the market.

    I literally have 15 independent service guys in my system in the surrounding area, its crazy…

    I’m just doing a video about it, it’s really changing how hot tubs are being sold and serviced in some areas.

    It’s funny the reality is great dealers are great not because of proximity they are great because of communication and good timely information, 90% of your customer-dealer relationship is this and the reality is if you stay with a good easily sourced parts list these guys can make parts replacement a dawdle.

    In these areas, the only retailers I find on the ground are the big marketing meatheads with their mid-grade spas and goofy parts.

    There is one guy I would look at and I only just recommend them.

    Pacific Coast Sauna & Spa
    Status: Unverified.

    All we know is they say they carry Marquis which is on the edge of our recommended group. They seem to build a decent product but They refuse to give us access to their manufacturing to verify the build… Everyone else is bugging me to come see what they are doing we have done 3 factory tours already in 2018 and these guys wont even return calls…
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2176 S El Camino Real, San Mateo, CA 94403
    pcsaunaandspa.com
    +1 650-212-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  344. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 11:25 am

    Yeah, they are all good options, I like the Nordic but the insulation is not quite up to par, check out the Getaway hot tubs they should sell them at the Master dealers, they are basically the same as the Nordic but with full foam insulation, they spent a lot more on the insulation system.

  345. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 11:22 am

    The artesian for sure, its better built and the factory is there in Vegas…

  346. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 11:21 am

    I help you buy a hot tub πŸ™‚

  347. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 12:50 am

    Hi

    You wont find much its brand new.

    Master bought one of the biggest rotomold machines in the world, and they put good parts, clamped the plumbing lines and used Icynene foam insulation. The color and finish is nice and the shells are solid. one thing, in a cold northern climate its a really big tub for 100v so on cold days when you take the cover off they loose temp pretty quickly. But it’s also a dual voltage unit so you can just hard wire it and bingo the heater is 3 or 4 times bigger.

  348. Reply
    admin April 24, 2018 at 12:44 am

    Hi Stephanie.

    Colombus is one of these weird markets.

    I’ve been collecting a lot of data on sales trends and there are a few of these areas where there are few retailers and tons of independent service companies on the ground there are 8 I have registered there.

    I think these areas have had State Fairs and tent sales and expos for so long that the majority of the spas sold there are from away.

    The truth is this is a growing trend, and we are starting to work with these local service companies. the truth is in these markets great dealer customer relationships are more down to good communication and information and then using these local service guys for parts swap. If you get a spa with a standard parts list you can get a good level of care.

  349. Reply
    admin April 20, 2018 at 8:01 pm

    naw on a new tub if you’re just using chlorine you can move right over.

    her is what i do for my tub and it works awesome (not recommending you do)

    Tips for optimum Aquafinesse use
    Fill tub and heat it to desired temp
    Test the water.
    Balance the hardness to 150 (about Β½ bottle Cal Boost)
    Balance the water alkalinity level to 150.
    When alkalinity is adjusted, test and adjust the ph. to 7.
    Add Aquafinesse at recommended dosage (see bottle side).
    Fill dispenser with chlorine pucks and put in spa.
    Weekly:
    Balance Alkalinity and PH as above
    Add Aquafinesse
    Rinse filters – order this Handy cleaning wand for $32.95
    Shock spa one cap after every 4-5 bodies. Also shock with 6 caps if heavy bather load or if water is cloudy.
    Be sure to replace the chlorine puck when it dissolves. You should be burning 3 tablets a week.
    Periodic:
    Deep clean filters every 2-3 months with Aquafinesse filter cleaner tablets.

    Things to remember:
    The spas pumps should be running when balancing the water.
    Leave at least 5 minutes between all water tests to ensure the added elements have been fully mixed into the spa.

  350. Reply
    admin April 20, 2018 at 7:58 pm

    Both good solid brands, I think the Artesian eeks out the Marquis.

    They were open an allowed us access to the factory they build right. and Marquis never even returned calls…

  351. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    the grand Bahama and the phelps would be very close lots of people would put the Phelps higher than the TS they are very close

  352. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 8:19 pm

    Hey Rob

    Yer right it’s a mess how they rate pumps but it’s not master it’s how the industry does it they all quote break Hp cause it sounds good but it does not matter because for comparison purposes that’s how most everyone quotes it.

    I have seen guys put 6 Hp pump heads on 8 amp motors and call them 6 hp…

    You really can’t put anything much bigger than 2 x 12 amp motors… 2 motors are 24 amps the heater is 4-5kw so again 18-22 amps dude all spas run 50 amp supply any more and you blow the breaker and you need a percentage for surge so the most you can reliably run on any hot tub is right around 45 amps… it does not matter if you have 1 motor of 20 you still can’t draw any more power.

    and then it gets even messier because there are different performance curves form different pumps.. they might all draw 12 amps but there will be different flow rates and then the plumbing system will take that number and again effect how it affects the end flow out of the jets πŸ™‚

    I have never found a good solution… the only real way would be to evaluate flow rates and pressure in each finished with diverters and different jets, it would nigh on impossible to get a comparison that’s much better…

    I always find the cheap little jets feel like they are hitting harder because it’s nailing a tiny area and mainly mashing your dermal layer where all the nerves are so they “feel” awesome but for long-term muscle relaxation you need to move the whole muscle mass so the high flow jets which do flow much more water have much more force and move the whole muscle mass… Man sit in front of those seats full of the big therapy jets which a whole pump turned on to just that seat and long-term do way more for muscle tension.

    read this article below the video. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

  353. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    I would say the bullfrog, the shell isn’t my prefered system but the insulation and parts and plumbing are good. Its the best of the options you are mentioning. The Calderas insulation systems is interesting I would think the R value is very close to the foam systems. but the parts are goofy

  354. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Hi Dave.

    Having all this information and experience and its the brand I put out in my little local market where my kids go to school and my wife shops… It’s reliable and easy and gets me good referral business. I don’t endorse it because I sell it I sell it cause I endorse it πŸ™‚

    I literally went through everything out there and I wouldn’t buy any of it. There are a few options outside of your market area and there is a good independent service guy down here I use called Endless Summer Pool and Spa Service

    With this guy local you could go out Of market there is a Master dealer and an Artesian dealer in the 100+ mile rangE.

  355. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    Hey Dave.

    That’s a super weird list dude πŸ™‚

    I like Nordic but it’s entry-level plastic shell durable but a couple grand less to build. The Nordic would compare nicely to Getaway hot tubs. they would be basically the same but the Getaway has better insulation. but both are good tubs.

    the Montclair has only two of the expensive hi flow jets the rest are inexpensive low-performance low flow jets… should be mid-priced and mid-performance at best.

    Twilight is all performance jets… I would expect there to be a massive retail price difference between the 3 spas.

  356. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    My advice would be to stay away from The salt water systems. This is old Technology from the 80s being resold as innovation 10 years after everyone stopped using it. Most guys moved away from this stuff a long time ago. It’s high chemical between 1 to 3 parts per million of chlorine or bromine difficult to manage and unreliable. There’s much better technology on the market that can get you to 4 or 5 x lower chemical levels. read this article

    Ozone is standard on most tubs. and the reality is it doesn’t really do that much. To be effective Ozone systems would need to be a complex expensive system using p[re treated air, high output generators, multi-stage absorption chambers, and off-gas ozone destruct systems costing thousands of dollars… The reality is hot tubs use a cheap $150-$300 system that really has a marginal effect on overall water care and releases off-gas into the tub area which damages covers and pillows and can be a health risk.

    My buddy Griffin Ryan is out that way, I have known this guy personally for 5 or 6 years, he is a solid guy who stands behind what he sells.

  357. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    Hi Rob

    They are 6 Hp but that doesn’t mean much πŸ™‚ the hot tub industry uses HP and for water pumps, it really should be GPM or electrical motor amperage. That being said everyone typically uses the BHP rating so at least they are all reasonable comparable. πŸ™‚ They Use a solid 56 frame US motor too which I really like, I find them beefier and longer lasting than the less expensive magnetecks and GE ones. its got good flow, you will not want for power in that tub.

  358. Reply
    admin April 11, 2018 at 8:12 pm

    Jared I didn’t mean to scare anyone off, You got to understand I’m a bit of a fanatic, I want everything to be the best tech available.

    I get a lot of people out in Edmonton, I’m in Halifax!

    I scoured that area end to end, there is just nothing there I would buy but you have two solid independent service guys that are established there because I think they have a few big shows that have been going through there for a while and this has created a good solid service network on the ground, we are seeing this happening in some markets and it’s changing the way things have been.

    I literally sold two tubs there in the last couple weeks.

    you need r-value insulation out there dude. I use a simple rule of thumb. If it would not meet code in a house in a northern US state or Canada then it is simply not good enough. We don’t have silly arguments like this in the building industry… Why??? Because it’s regulated and has to meet scientific scrutiny. Mylar and other radiant barriers were all over the building industry in the 80’s with the same outrageous claims the hot tub industry uses today, no one uses this crap as a primary insulator in that industry anymore and most of the northern US states and the Canadian Mortgage Housing Authority all issued warnings about it back decades ago… This is old recycled technology and there are way-way better options out there.

  359. Reply
    admin April 10, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    That depends so much on what you are looking for…

    if its mainly about you and massage then the TS for sure, if it’s about space w good jetting the clarity 8 footer is roomy as hell but won’t perform like the Twilight.

  360. Reply
    admin April 10, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    The bottom pan is not an issue unless you have a really damp install sight the standard bottom has a heavy poly base.

  361. Reply
    admin April 10, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    Hey Geoff

    Sorry for the delay in answering just so busy on here now!

    I just did a bullfrog review finally, I’m going to get ahold of one soon and dig in deeper but have a boo at this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/bullfrog/

    Also look at the jetting, the top Bullfrog has a few of the good expensive hi flow jets and a lot fo little ones it is not going to perform like a tub that is full of the high flow therapy jets, Bullfrog does not a build a line like Twilight their top line would be more on par with the next one down health Living.

  362. Reply
    admin April 7, 2018 at 10:56 am

    There wasn’t much real information on the website but haven’t look at the videos with pretty Telltale.

    The obvious red flag is the insulation so if you’re not in the cold area maybe this isn’t such a concern but what they’re doing there is just inexpensive and very very low R-value.

    They didn’t say anything about the shell in the video but you can see the props and supports that they’ve mounted underneath the spa. This is typical of entry-level product they just splash some fiberglass on then just allowed to dry. When “finished” in the tubs not strong enough so they put props and supports under the seats to stop it from cracking. I want a hand-rolled self-supported fiberglass shell with vinyl Ester resin core. This is an expensive part of your purchase and it’s not a part to cut corners on. This spa is what it is… it’s what 80% of the industry is… some good some bad some ugly…

    I looked around the area, You have a lot of good options down there:

    Hot Tub Store – Master-
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    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.2View in Google Maps

    Allstate Home Leisure Sterling Heights
    Artesian is a good brand but they also carry some goofy brands like Jacuzzi and Sundance
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    44605 Schoenherr Rd, Sterling Heights, MI 48313
    http://www.homeleisure.com
    +1 586-932-5100
    4.7View in Google Maps

    and a good independent service guy:

    The Hot Tub Guy
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    Details from Google Maps
    4212 Greenfield Rd, Berkley, MI 48072
    +1 248-794-2478
    View in Google Maps

  363. Reply
    admin April 7, 2018 at 10:07 am

    Hi Shawn.

    I have seen the new 2018 and there are two things changed, first, they went to the CMP jet system after trialing it on another line for a couple years and seeing the result from guys like Artesian and many others that went to the system. Traditionally the click-in jets have been a pain in the ass, the problem with the click in Jet Systems was that they had two little springy tabs on the side of the jet that would click and lock into place and after time the chemicals would degrade the plastic and the plastic would no longer be flexible enough so those little tabs would snap off and the jets would Fall out.
    So everyone went to threaded Jets and that was awesome at least the Jets would stay in. The problem was they would stay in so good that after a while you couldn’t unthread them again because they’d be all stuck in place. The new system uses these two blades on either side of the Jet and when the jet goes into the fitting you turn it and the blades slide into two grooves and lock into place. They’re much more substantial tabs and because they’re not forced to flex every time they come in and out they’re going to last. I’ve been watching these for year-and-a-half 2 years now deciding whether I was going to put them on my endorsed list and the reality is these jets are holding up really really well and there have been very few problems with them, I don’t think it’s going to be an issue.

    The other change was the skirt system, nice clean quick click removable and super durable double walled vinyl.

    Performance wise it’s mad, I really believe it’s one of the best performance spas out there, I always have one running at my hose for my busted up and broken body.

  364. Reply
    admin April 7, 2018 at 9:51 am

    Hi Charles

    I’m personally not a fan of the jacuzzi, its one of the brands we won’t service even. I’m fanatical about a good parts list and the argument I have with a lot of these guys that are building a special parts list to just fit their hot tubs is this. They are not doing this for a better part, There are great reliable OEM parts Like Balboa that will simply work better and last they do it for two reasons the first is to save money because the really great parts are expensive, the second reason is to take you off the open market and ensure that all the revenue from these goofy parts goes right back through the manufacturer because they control the Parts… This is a great corporate profit structure but a crap deal for the end user.

    the rest I agree with I don’t like the “space blanket” foils, they are crap and cheap.

    Its no secret I’m a fan of the Master when I went back into retail as soon as I could afford a top brand its what I choose for my local market where my kids go to school and my wife shops. there were literally 4 or 5 brands on the list of possibles and they are the same brands I recommend on here… It’s not even brands that I endorse its a way of making hot tubs that is expensive and sustainable. people accuse me of doing this for nefarious reasons but 1 of the brands I endorse is my local competitors brand! I must be nuts πŸ™‚

  365. Reply
    admin April 4, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    On a 2009 you will be fine the parts I think are Balboa and the shell if it lasted this long will be fine. Look between the pump head and the motor for white buildup which will indicate a failing pump. I would suspect it has had a main pump replacement at least. Not much has changed in 10 years except the parts have gotten cheaper and poorer quality on a lot of things. the key to moving and storing is chlorinate and run a spa clean puck through before you empty then vac the lines and put it on its side or flat. Then just place it fill it and run it

  366. Reply
    admin April 4, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    Pricing varies a lot by region, its really expensive to do business in LA for instance and cheap as chips in rural areas but That’s a good price for that unit anywhere
    .

  367. Reply
    admin April 3, 2018 at 11:40 am

    So the Hot springs use a goofy parts list that you can only get from them, I am fanatical about one thing, get a good reliable easy to source parts list. For me, that makes it a no go brand. When something goes wrong I want an easy to source competitively priced part. You also want a removable skirt system, it’s more expensive to build but if you have any issues it will save you a ton. Building a hot tub with no access to the sides is insane.

    Clarity is a new shell like the open area with loads of room, the jetting is good and the build is right. It also uses a good reliable easy to source parts list.

  368. Reply
    admin April 2, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Hi Russell

    It hasn’t been much of an issue because almost everyone uses the same basic type of PSC (Permanent split capacitor) motors, there are small differences in the longevity and flow curves but they are basically the same machines with variances in the quality of build. The downside to these motors in some applications is that they generate excessive heat but in a hot tub where we reclaim the heat pretty efficiently that’s not such a big downside. While they are no super efficient (around 60% max) most of the inefficiency is lost to generated heat which again is reused so the actual efficiency overall is not bad in this application. And since there are few mechanical components, this design is very simple and reliable and low cost. The other big advantage is interchangeability, we can drop this motor into 90% of the spas out there.

    ECM motors are more efficient (around 80%) in motor current draw because they run cooler but in a hot tub where we are reclaiming the heat generated it’s not significant. They are quieter but in a hot tub we can first employ good anti-vibration pads and where the noise of the motor is drowned by the sound of the water anyway it’s again not that much of an advantage. They are a lot more expensive but most of the advantages would be in flow control systems and in a hot tub it’s not really much advantage, we can already effectively control flow easily and inexpensively.

    All in all, it is a better tech and worth moving to in applications where the heat generation and noise is an issue like an appliance or heating and cooling system but in a hot tub it’s borderline whether it is worth it or not. Just curious… what brand did you see this tech on?

  369. Reply
    admin April 1, 2018 at 11:25 pm

    I’m not really a big fan of the Watkins group. It’s typical of the equity investment companies that spend so much money on brand awareness marketing and advertising but there’s not enough left over to build a great hot tub with. Things like nonremovable sides goofy parts list that you can only get from the manufacturer and old school poly based foams makes this a no-go brand for me.

    go see these guys they do Master, much better build quality and a better price.

    http://www.thegrizzlybearhottubcompany.co.uk/hot-tubs/hot-tubs

  370. Reply
    admin March 28, 2018 at 9:38 am

    From a strictly build standpoint the only two I would have on my radar are the artesian or the Marquis. both are very similar in construction, insulation, and parts list.

    The artesian looks like it eeks it out on performance but hard to say without wet testing.

    The real issue is the shoulder jetting in both tubs, the Artesian has nothing for the big upper shoulder and neck muscles you need a good reverse moulded jet area and you cant have those little piss any jets you need the good hi flow jets to move enough water to really give you long-term upper shoulder and neck improvement.

  371. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    It’s a crazy expensive spa order it without a circ pump and no to the Masterpur $15k is a solid number on that tub

  372. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    Hey Jason sorry man I was so busy this week.

    I would not order the masterpur, go with an aftermarket system like aqua finesse or Spa Marvel.

  373. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    Dude for sure I would go either the Master or the Artesian.

    The parts are better and easier to source and competitively priced, I don’t like these brands that make parts to just fit their spa so they can hammer you forever for overpriced cheap parts. you want a good standard parts list you can get anywhere competitively priced. It’s a big issue.

  374. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Awesome guys Its a great spa and I know Jacqueline and the girls out there.

    if you need anything let me know

  375. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Sorry for the delay in responding. This place is going crazy I’m getting so many requests to help and referrals from past customers that we have had to hire staff just to manage it πŸ™

    Add to that the fact that I have been in Georgia chaperoning fifteen 15-year-olds for the past 3 weeks and I’m unraveling just a bit πŸ™‚

    There is not a lot of good options there for you except the Artesian, if it was a warmer climate we could go to something with a good build and parts list and not worry about the insulation but you need R-Value…

    Ill dug through all the locals but ill see if there is anything else.

  376. Reply
    admin March 25, 2018 at 11:22 pm

    Hey Susan. There’s a lot of brands I’m not a fan of, it seems the big built-up metropolises are mostly selling the big brands with the crazy advertising budgets and outrageous retail prices.

    It’s funny it seems like the good brands with, better backup support and better pricing are only in the burbs and beyond πŸ™‚

    For 10k there are loads of good buys especially if the jetting isn’t a big deal for you…

    I don’t really see anything around your post go that I like. but I got a good buddy out there that I know personally that might be able to take care of you.

  377. Reply
    admin March 25, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    It’s a really different area to work in. I looked around at all the shops are there and there’s a lot of Brands but none that are really on my top list especially in a cold climate.

    There’s also an incredible amount of independent service guys there you have five guys in that market that do nothing but fix hot tubs and pools.

    Usually, you find this in an area that is served mainly by Expo events tent sales state fairs or other large hot tub sales events.

    Independent service guys can be a very good resource and give you the option of buying outside of your Market as long as you stick to a standard parts list.

    check out these guys and look at Twilight, they are a bit out of the market

  378. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 6:43 pm

    No wonder your wife does not like hot tubs, commercial tubs are typically really high chemical and low performance it’s not a great environment.

    Generally, I like the Marquis hot tub build quality wise and Parts wise it’s good and insulation Wise It’s good.

    This model, in particular, has a couple issues 1 there’s almost no neck jet system which means upper shoulders and neck were most people carry their tension aren’t really going to be addressed. Those little low-flow Jets they’ve got for neck and shoulder are not going to do anything. You need a high volume of water to deal with those large muscle masses so 4 of the higher flow jets are critical and you need the power to make those bigger jets work.

    I’m also not a big fan of these goofy shapes, right now they’re in style but they’re going to date your purchase and it’s going to make your cover purchase down the road a lot more expensive.

    The Artesian is a good tub as well but again performance-wise it’s lacking a good neck jet system and again no monster Jets.

    If you really want to Performance massage tub in a smaller size you really should look at the Twilight series 67.25 fantastic massage therapy Great Neck and it has those huge for just the just do wonders for lower back and legs and feet. In my opinion, means nothing like that it really touches the Twilight series hot tubs for therapeutic massage.

    When it comes to service support the biggest thing is that you’ve got somebody to call that knows what they are talking about and answers their emails and phone calls because most of the issues with the hot tub can be addressed very simply over the phone. On the ground parts replacement, you have a really good selection of independent service guys out there and you shouldn’t have any problem getting parts replacements.

    I personally wouldn’t have the coast on my final list

  379. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas
    36.83632, -76.09677

  380. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:02 pm

    Hi and sorry for the delay in responding. I’m on “vacation” which is really chaperoning a house full of 14 15-year olds for a month… I need my head examined…

    I spent an hour going through everything out there and there is not a brand I would put into a cold climate like yours.

    as far as salt systems are concerned this is really old technology from the 80s that’s being regurgitated as a new innovation. The reality is all these systems really did was take sodium chloride or sodium bromide and make chlorine or bromine. The days when we were using three to five parts per million of chlorine or bromine in the system this allowed us to go down to1 to 3 parts per million so is this significant decrease. Since then the Technologies evolved a lot and this really is not a system I would recommend. It’s highly corrosive and will damage wood and Concrete and everything else around your area and is hard on your hot tub. It’s not easy to maintain there’s a lot of levels you need to balance like your salt levels as well as the regular stuff and all it does is get you the one to three parts per million chlorine these are not chemical-free systems.I would highly recommend looking at something like a quirkiness mineral salt system or spawn Marvel system that you can use in any tub after purchase. So will I do chlorine or bromine levels down to drinking water levels or around a half a part per million and there is simply nothing out there that is easier to balance?

  381. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:54 am

    dont know the brand but the science is sound, the enzymes work well at controlling biofilm and helping reduce chemical use.

  382. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:53 am

    i would go to the 8 footer for the money and no do not order a circ pump, it has nothing to do with heat and is not a good option.

    the 2017 and 18’s are almost identical only the skirt and the jet had changed

  383. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:18 am

    LA is a funny market it is supplied by a regular series for tent sales, expos, and fairs and as a result, there are free dealers and the only ones I can find are the big flash marketing brands.

    The good side is there are loads and load of independent service guys so you can buy almost anything that uses a good easy to source arts list and have a good reliable experience.

  384. Reply
    admin March 23, 2018 at 11:43 am

    solid price great spa good job

    Happy hot tubbing

  385. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 9:19 pm

    the shell the insulation and the filtration all put me off Hydropool.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6, Canada
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps
    43.41791, -80.4531

  386. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 9:18 pm

    Yep, they make a good spa man. I toured the factory this winter and they are doing a good job.

    With Artesian though you are wholly dependant on the dealer they will not deal with customers directly to make sure its a good dealer or you have a local service guy.

    I would check out Master they have their factory in ft Wayne and I think they sell direct through here:
    Master Spas Indianapolis (by Appointment Only)
    8070 Castleton Road , Indianapolis, IN, 46250
    Phone: 317-999-5922
    indysales@masterspas.com

  387. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    Man, you have so many better options out there.

    Sunrise is a small regional guy the shell is cradle supported and again the insulation is just substandard, the home building code in your area would not let you get away with this low r-value system so just because some hot tub companies spinning it as good in no way changes the fact that it is cheap and substandard.

    The Bullfrog is good except the pods to limit the area that can be reached and typically only goes to up the mid-upper end therapy massage wise, the pitch about the reduced amount of pipe reducing the friction is bullshit, 90% of the pipe is in parallel so the reality is the resistance and the pipe length between the pump and the jets are almost identical. Add to that the plastic ABS shell that’s so weak structurally that they have to prop it up with pedestals to stop it from falling apart makes this one a no go for me…

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6, Canada
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps
    43.41791, -80.4531

  388. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 12:40 am

    I always answer…

    I’m a one-man show, doing this for nothing, and in the middle of chaperoning 15 15year olds for the month πŸ™‚

    try these guys:

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    The folks at Dixon carry my top brand and they hung out with us at the show this year, we spend a few days together and they have taken great care of a number of my customers.
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.6View in Google Maps

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com
    +1 919-772-7745
    4.4View in Google Maps

  389. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 9:35 pm

    Dan, this is too much for me to figure out…

    So many possibilities.

    but in general look for any of the brands I recommend.

    I’ll do a video about buying used.

    meantime email me if you find anything or post specifics here and ill respond.

  390. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    We are friends πŸ™‚

    and call or email anytime!

  391. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    If you have issues with it you can retrofit it back to a high flow system.

    The reason they offer it as an option is that so many of the brands out there that sell on the strength of their marketing use these systems so most manufacturers offer them as an option to be competitive.

    Email me if you need any help

  392. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 7:16 pm

    Hydropool I am simply not a fan of at all.. this tub is full of old tech that they have rebranded as new… ts wack, IMHO it’s a mid-grade overpriced spa that they spent a ton on marketing…

    Beachcomber is good to build but stay away from the Hybrid line its old tech and don’t expect too much on the performance end, they are hyper-focused on efficiency and they seem to have confused efficient with performance. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/brand-reviews/

    I would go see these guy there is literally not a better dealer in the world than this for the Moncton area, they sell 2-3x more hot tubs other than the local guys and their service levels are insane they have… Not to mention they carry my number one brand!!!!
    e local emergency service and their main service is out there weekly.

    Hot Tub Universe
    Theresa Shea
    theresa@hottubuniverse.ca
    902-576-5115

  393. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    I went through the area you have a few options, there are a couple Artesian Dealers, these are good spas well made but I would go see these guys they do Twilight which is built the same as the Artesian but kick it on performance.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Status HTU All-Star

    I spent 4 days with these guys and talked a lot about tubs, and customer care, these guys have the right attitude and as a HTU All-Star if you by from these guys and Gt Hot Tub University Approved on your original invoice you can always fall back on us if you have any issues that the dealer cant solve for you.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.7View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  394. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    all right you’re about the 5th person is bugging me about this hot tub so I finally tried to figure it out something about it. I looked online but there wasn’t much information, basically fluff. I got on the phone to the factory and had a chat with a guy there and it’s exactly what you would expect from a cheap spa. if you look at it performance-wise there are lots of small Jets very few the high-flow therapy massage jets.

    Again typical of this kind of price point product we have a cradle supported shell that is too thin to support their load. We do have a good control and heating system which is great. But again the insulation is substandard with an inch of Styrofoam with some mylar this is simply not going to keep your tub running efficiently in any kind of cold climate. there is very little R-value here. pose.

    There are not a lot of great options in your area but there are 4 independent service guys so you could buy outside of the market.

    try these guys

    David’s Home Entertainment & Recreation
    2566 Asheville Road, Waynesville, NC, 28786
    Phone: 828-452-5534
    david@davidshomeentertainment.com
    davidshomeentertainment.com

  395. Reply
    admin March 19, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    Hi Clint

    My father in law is from Kindersley just south of you πŸ™‚

    I’m not a big fan of hydro pool.

    Mna i have been going over your area and there is just not a lot of options, Arctic and Hydropool, I really do not like either,

    Hydropool for the reasons above and the Arctic because it’s just full of cheap proprietary parts and almost nothing spent on insulation ad they don’t even clamp the plumbing line, these guys need to spend more on the tub and less on the bullshit branding and marketing.

  396. Reply
    admin March 18, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    Hi Patty

    1. Floor model/show model/warehouse model = why not often they have good prices and the stuff done to a demo spa is the same stuff you will do to yours in 6 months.
    2. Hydraulic lift vs. rock it lifts? stay away from hydraulic lifts, they are crap, they destroy your cover and are always lifting the center so you don’t get a good seal on the cover, try and get a simple top mount lift and try and get aluminum brackets, not the plastic ones, they are hard to find, let me know if you cant
    3. Clarity vs. Healthy Living? Clarity- roomy, great for really getting a lot of people in. open barrier-free seating. HL contoured seating good for tall people, smaller footwell better message (more high flow jets) other than that they are the same.
    4. High-end roto mould suggestions? rotomoulds are strong and reliable shells but typically they are lower end performance wise and a lot of them are simply cheap crap. I like Nordic and Getaway, getaway edges it out because they simply spend more on the insulation package.
    5. Recommended dealer(s) in our area?
    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620, Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    http://www.sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.3View in Google Maps
    6. Options after base price? What to add and/or stay away from…..I.e. Ozonator and circulating pump… None, they come with everything you want.
    7. Mostly used by 2 people/lounger… up to you try one wet and see if you like the lounger, first-time buyers often buy loungers second time often don’t.

    Happy Hot Tubbing

  397. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    I haven’t seen the Marquis 3 seater and I’m in the middle of a 4-week stint chaperoning fourteen 15-year-old boys and I’m losing it so you are getting the abridged version πŸ™‚

    Typically I love both brands from a build standpoint but the Twilight is the top therapy massage spa out there. just look at the jets… when it comes to massage bigger is better.. they cost more, flow more water, and move bigger masses of muscle…

  398. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    I’m really not a fan of the Hydro Pools Spas. There is a lot of old technology that they rebranded to try and make it sound like it’s Innovation like those self-cleaning floor suction, and pressure side filtration. I’m also really not a fan of the installation system Mylar is cheap and ineffective in this application. The fact that you cant use these radiant systems in home construction ( highly regulated industry) as a primary insulator really makes you need to reassess whether this is a good system. this is bad tech and just because some hot tub company says its a good insulation system in no way changes that.

    I also really recommend you rethink the Dual lounger unless you’re a previous hot tub owner and you’ve experienced this and you really like loungers I think you’ll find that this isn’t a great option. The reality is second-time buyers rarely buy a lounger, you’re floating you don’t notice whether you’re in a lounge chair or a seat and they just take up a lot of room and you tend to float out of them. Also, that second lounger looks really short in a tub that size I bet you’d be hard-pressed to have two comfortable loungers in there typically when you have a dual Laundry Tub it’s in the 96″ range.

  399. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    hey Allison.

    If you don’t mind spending the money the Phelps swim spa is in a class of its own. the swim number app system lets you turn it into an interval trainer because it will automatically allow you to program variable training where the flow increases and decreases throughout your workout for real interval training. Also the flow rates in that Swim Spa are just phenomenal I can’t swim anywhere near 40% for for for a 20-minute workout. for efficient swimmers that are competing or people that want to work out regularly and have that advantage of the flow control there simply isn’t a swimmer that will do a better job in the world.

    The deal Master Spas it with Michael Phelps was never just a simple endorsement deal it was a program with USA swimming to design Pro swim trainer that professional athletes can use. The extra depth the flow control the contoured sides that smooth of the current everything about this spa is a result of years of work with Michael Phelps and his coach Bob Bowman refining this product to what you see today.

    and I have one of these in my backyard and I use it 365 days in a year I do a swim and then I use all the workout gear and Float against the current. And then I jump over the hot tub side and turn on the main therapy seat, its the same seat as he twilight series and again its miles ahead of anything for a really high-end therapy massage seat.

  400. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    Hi, Michelle.

    Nothing against your contractor but I would not take advice on a specialized product like this from a general contractor, and almost always these “recommendations” have a referral fee attached to them, it’s not uncommon in fact it is the norm… I have 8 or 10 contractors that refer me business and I always throw them a referral fee, its an advertising expense… The fact that he is referring a brand like QCA and saying they tweak it for salt environments makes me roll my eyes… any of the top tubs are built to this standard already the fact that a dealer needs to tweak a brand to be able to operate in a salty environment speaks volumes about the original quality of the product.

    I had a look at the brand online and just from the surface there are issues. They are using an ABS plastic shell, these were all the rage 20 years ago they were supposed to be cheaper and reliable, they ended up just being cheaper but they had a lot of issues. they are not gluing and clamping plumbing instead they are using old internally glued fittings and again a less expensive insulation system.

    check out these guys they are the best in the area.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Status HTU All-Star

    I spent 4 days with these guys and talked a lot about tubs, and customer care, these guys have the right attitude and as a HTU All-Star if you by from these guys and Gt Hot Tub University Approved on your original invoice you can always fall back on us if you have any issues that the dealer cant solve for you.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.7View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  401. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 10:57 am

    So you really need to look at the jetting and flow control when you are looking for the massage. the big expensive hi flow jets really make a longterm difference to muscle mobility. but when you get more than 5 or 6 of the big jets you really need flow control to be able to steal all the pump for the main seat.

    I’m like you… broken and sore and for me, the monster jets in the floor with the ability to put a big 6 hp pump onto them are my best friend esp for lower back and glutes.

    Both those spas will be reliable and well built but the Upper end of the Masters (twilight, LSX)will outperform the Marquis.

  402. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:17 am

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    Dixon Pools & Spas
    122 Alamance Rd., Burlington, NC, 27215
    Phone: 336-221-0808
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.6View in Google Maps

  403. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:14 am

    I don’t usually do eco pur so I really don’t have a lot of advice email me what you are doing right now and what issues you are having or email yer phone and we can have a chat

  404. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:10 am

    Try these guys for a master and if you really want top neck and shoulder and massage in general look at the twilight.

    as for more pumps being better…not so much read this.

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personal met these guys a few times, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps
    40.5017, -88.95481

  405. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:04 am

    Hey David

    The hot water is one part and that can be good for the area but remember if you have inflammation in the area the hot water will aggravate it and increase the inflammation, you will want to be cautious to ice the area afterward if it’s inflamed. and definitely, need to consult with the doctor or surgeon with regards to when and for how long and what temp. DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE OF A MEATHEAD HOT TUB SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT (ME)…

    Similarly, the jet action needs to be highly controllable preferably a diverter valve and try and get a lot fo high flow jets.

    hydro pool and lazy boy are both made by hydro pool and Sundance was bought by jacuzzi, I don’t one for the crap parts and the other two for the old tech like self-cleaning nonsense and crap insulation.Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys a few times, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps
    40.5017, -88.95481

  406. Reply
    admin March 15, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    Performance wise the little neck jets don’t really do much I like to see some good mid flow jets (4) with the ability to divert a lot of fo water to them, neck, shoulders are a big mass and you need enough flow to really move that muscle mass to get good long-term improvement.

    all in all BF is a good spa but forget all the bullshit about higher flow rates, its a trick…. if all that pipe were in series (one long peice) then yes the reduction in the amount of pipe would make a difference to the efficiency and flow rate but its not… most of the pipe in in parallel (side by side) so the distance of the pipe from the motor to the jet is almost identical. I dislike the fact they are using duplicity and the reality is the jets packs offer zero improvements over the current model, no advantages at all and several disadvantages including a big restriction on where the jets can be located and 10x the price to customize the seats! if you buy a tub with mid and high flow jets you can change the jets for $30 instead of $700 for the stupid pack. I love real technological innovation that offers a real-world tangible benefit but in my opinion, this is fake innovation for a marketing ploy more than anything else. add to that the ABS plastic shell that is so weak they need to put pedestals under it to keep it from falling apart and it’s just not a brand I can get behind.

  407. Reply
    admin March 14, 2018 at 12:56 am

    Hey Jae

    that was USD down in Georgia

  408. Reply
    admin March 13, 2018 at 11:44 am

    try these guys

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    Dixon Pools & Spas
    122 Alamance Rd., Burlington, NC, 27215
    Phone: 336-221-0808
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.6View in Google Maps

  409. Reply
    admin March 13, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Wow Lou good shopping you have identifir=ed two great spas that are very very close from a performance standpoint and a build standpoint.

    First forget the jet bullshit, they are the same, and for the most part so is everything else.

    But there is one big issue and last your \i would have warned you off both of these spas for it.

    Its the circ pump. its bad tech and I never ever recommend a circ pump system for a ton of reasons. last year both units came with a circ pump so neither brands were on my recommended list. This year you can order the Phelps with the hi-flow filter system and that makes it a no-brainer, the circ pumps are crap, its bad tech that marketing has made it sound like a good option but the failure rate and customer satisfaction levels are way-way better with high flow filter system. read this…

  410. Reply
    admin March 13, 2018 at 11:20 am

    Hi Richard.

    Happy hot tubbing. and if you have any needs ping me we can help

  411. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    Yeah the price is right for that tub and I like the clarity a lot. brand new shell designs with loads of space in them and Clarity is a Master spa line so it’s all the right stuff from a build quality standpoint.

  412. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    That’s pretty funny that you mentioned Atlanta Georgia. I’m in Atlanta Georgia right now πŸ™‚

    I’m not sure if either of those two Brands dude, it wouldn’t be something I would be buying I would really want to look for one of the name brands that you know was doing the right stuff these smaller independent guys sometimes can be building good spas but very rarely are they doing all the right stuff.

    check out these guys they do master and the master factory is not far from you.

    Kasten, Inc.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    210 W Industrial Park Rd, Carbondale, IL 62901
    http://www.kasten.net
    +1 618-457-8721

  413. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 8:29 pm

    you have a couple options in Salt Lake City there is an Artesian dealer down there they make a great hot tub good shells, good Plumbing, good insulation, and good parts. There are also three independent subcontractors that just repair hot tubs in don’t sell anything they just fix hot tubs and that’s always a good resource to have in an area too. It allows you the option of going outside of your local market.

    Soakers
    Status: Unverified

    No idea what is up with the dealer but the brand is solid Artesian is one my goto brands
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6905 State St, Midvale, UT 84047
    soakers.biz
    +1 801-838-7727

  414. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    yeah, so it’s critical to have the thermal mass in these 110v units. you need all the help you can get.

    Marquis Hot Tubs – Clackamas
    Staus – Unrated
    link- are you the owner? click here to be HTU approved-
    Remove
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    10822 SE 82nd Ave J, Happy Valley, OR 97086
    http://www.marquishottubs.com
    +1 503-210-0077
    4.7View in Google Maps

  415. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Depends, you have a ton of independents there which can make a remote purchase a good thing, talk to the dealer see what they have on the ground for you.

  416. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004

  417. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Hi Lisa

    It’s not practical to raise and lower the temp on a daily basis.

    the costs would be astronimical in the $200+ a month mark and you just cant cool a spa quickly. a dual zone swims spa if your willing to spend the money is your solution.

  418. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:12 pm

    Hey Tim

    I know coast is not in my tier one group, would have to reference why and im on vacation so yer getting the cheap and easy answers πŸ™‚ never heard of Zenith.

    As for the base, dont get too caught up… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-base-whats-hot-tub/

    Austin Spas and Pools
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the Carry Artesian which is on our good guy list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    13748 Research Blvd, Austin, TX 78750
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com
    +1 512-335-5458

    or if you travel a bit:

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004

  419. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Hydropol is not a band I would go to. def the Marquis is a far better-built tub with much more current technology.

  420. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    yeah so the crazy pricing is everywhere now, hot springs and Beachcomber started quoting these stupidly inflated prices the idea is if the retail is really high it must be super good, and a great deal because wow we have 40% off… bullshit all of it but it does not matter look at the features and compare the price you can buy it for but ignore the bs retail number they throw out.

    The Beachcomber and the HL line should be the same price they both have 7 or 8 of the high flow jets and no diverters or monster foot jets. but beachcomber does not build a spa with all high flow jets and big pumps and the monster jets and the diverter systems, they only build to the mid-performance end the TS tub flows more water out for the corner seat than the whole beachcomber almost.

  421. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    A great dealer is great but HS prices are out to lunch, its a mid-grade spa, nonremovable sides, cheap proprietary parts… the only reason it costs twice what it should is the marketing and branding budget… Crazy.

    of the brands you mention def the Marquis or the Artesian

  422. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 10:28 pm

    depends on the dealer, 3 hours is not much and right around you there are 4 independent service guys, call the dealer and ask what support he has on the ground.

    a dealer with great communication can easily take great care of a customer 500 or even 1000 miles away and half the local guys can’t even take care of their local market.

  423. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    Both are good tub unless you are going for high-end therapy massage spas the Marquis only does to the mid-upper end.

    als0 after sales service is dealer not factory although if you call Master direct they will deal with you and Marquis will not.

    The bad press from Master is their expos not local dealers. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-ratings-sites-hot-tub-discussion-forums-sorting-bullshit-bananas/

  424. Reply
    admin March 9, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    GO DEEP!

    I’m telling you the biggest thing is depth I’ve had swimmers for almost 15 years and I never noticed a bigger difference than when I got into the 60″ deep models, it gives you so much more flexibility esp for crosstraining and hacking around with the kids πŸ™‚

    Neither of those brands are in my top list although of the two the Cal would be slightly better esp with the full foam upgrade.

    Seriously no one comes close on the swim spa scene to the guys who started it all. these guys spent so much time and money on the development of their swimmers that there is really not even a real close second.

    See the H2X or if you really want to swim at the competitive level the Michael Phelps line, these are not just paid for endorsements, they spend scads of time with Michael and his coach Bob Bowman developing their swim spa program and they are simply super well built really good hi flow swim spas with lots of great features and 60″ depth.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    3.8View in Google Maps

  425. Reply
    admin March 9, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    Hi Andrew.

    Not heard back from them. Every time I ask them anything they just ignore me πŸ™‚

    Not sure if it is and its a concern. Some guys make the quality a lot lower on the entry level lines.

    My advice in general is if you are going to the mid or lower price point always buy basic… stay away from bells and whistles and spend the money on the build quality

  426. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care and they need to be carrying a line we like. When you buy from an Approved All-Star you can use us if you every have an issues and we will wack them into compliance with our big stick πŸ™‚
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  427. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Hey Tess.

    any of my recommended brands used should still have the right stuff for reliability and ease of getting parts.

    Age wise depends on how much you want to spend. and the condition of the spa. this guy is an independent service guy in your area, you might want to pay him to go look at the spa for you first.

    Pool Guy of Mansfield
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    Mansfield, OH 44902
    http://www.thepoolguypro.com
    +1 419-544-2881
    5.0View in Google Maps

  428. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    Good choice.

    I spent three days at the cal spa factory this winter I was looking at bringing them into our recommended brands, They are ok-ish I really like some stuff like the parts and plumbing and you can order with the full foam upgrade but they went away from Balboa to a waterways pack on all but their top lines which is a big questionable move for me. The shells also I was not overly impressed by, I saw in the advertising this big steel re-enforcing angle iron and all this talk and it turns out the “steel” is a thin strip of metal like drywall edging, there was no strength there worth talking about and the shell is not hand-rolled, it is cradle supported which means it has 2″x3″ pieces of wood to prop it up… They also have a history of lack of back-end support but they really looked like they were making some strides towards fixing that. They also have way-way too many skews…

  429. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    The 240 is a really good performing massage spa, built well. the marquis will be well built but much lower performance and at 11 years old it’s expensive.

  430. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Funny enough I was wondering the same πŸ™‚

    So I flew to Vegas last month and had a look at the factory, they are doing a good job on that line. What I don’t like is the old style foot domes… those little jets are useless for feet you need the big monster jets for foot massage. Also, the domes are a major tripping hazard, and you need ot run plumbing under the floor which means big heat loss through conduction, also the jetting is pretty pedestrian so I would expect in the lower price range.

  431. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    Hot Tub Store
    Status: HTU Approved

    We met with these folks and they are doing a bang-up job in their local market. We approve these guys which means if you buy from them you can call us if you have issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.3View in Google Maps

  432. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    Hey Jonathon.

    Both of those are good brands, I just searched the area and those are the two best.

    I also got a hit on google for a big tent sale in Vancouver this weekend, I called the number and they said they do master and have a deal with a local hot tub company for service out there and there are literally 5 independent service guys within 40 km of you so that might be worth a look.

  433. Reply
    admin March 7, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    The likely reason for the better efficiency is BC uses the full foam Icynene insulation, the other guys have partial foam perimiter or mylar or it could be down to usage. With the hybrid option, you lose the ability to reclaim the motor heat and the equipment is at risk in power outages very quickly.

  434. Reply
    admin March 7, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Hi Chris

    Pricing is funny, it does change regionally as the cost of doing business goes up esp in big metro areas. Industry-wise there have been no major price effectors. Last years models are fine if they havent made any big improvements which I doubt they have.

    I hadn’t really looked at the spa from a performance standpoint because the brand is just not a tub I would buy for a lot of reasons not the least of which is proprietary parts. These guys that go get parts made to just fit their spas instead of spending more for the good reliable easy to source parts Like Balboa are not doing you any favors, they are just locking you into having to buy all your parts from them only at whatever price they dictate.. great corporate business model but bad for the end user, you want good proven reliable parts you can get everywhere at competitive prices. On the plus side, their fibercor insulation is on par with an Icynene foam system.

    So I spent some time looking at the Geneva and Cantabria models.

    First off look at the jetting, loads of the inexpensive little low flow jets and only a few of the big expensive Hi flow jets, also the neck jet seat again is all low flow, I want mid flow jets for the neck and shoulder and I want lots of high flow jets with diverters so I can really point the water to the big muscle areas. I also want the big monster jets again with a diverter or their own pump for really big muscle masses and tough bits like glutes, feet, legs. knees etc. These tubs are like most upper-end spas but nothing special there is no serious foot jet system and with low flow jets for the neck and back in a lot of seats its just not kitted out like I feel a good high end therapy massage spa should be kitted out.

    If you want a real high-end massage spa I really think the Twilight series 8.2 is the best tub out there right now and will blow the geneva out of the water from a performance standpoint. (see the video below I shot of mine.)

    If you want a bigger tub look at the LSX 1000 the guys below do them both.

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved!

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. Buy from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!

    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  435. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Tropic seas is not Artesian. I would not consider the tropic seas. and yes they totally are playing bullshit games with you… what dealer is it so I can notate the file?

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved!

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  436. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    jesus that’s 2 from the rock today πŸ™‚

    the beachcomber or marquis, but stay away from the beachcomber Hybrid.. they will try and upsell you but its bad tech stay with leep.

  437. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:54 pm

    Hi Michelle.

    If you get a hot tub with lots of the big high flow jets then you can update it easily and cheaply by just swapping jets for $30 each… and no one ever does this πŸ™‚ most Bullfrog dealers I know say no one ver buys the packs, there too expensive. as for the flow rates, it is negligible, there is a bit of resistance in a pipe. when they say they reduce the amount of pipe by 90% they are fooling you because most of that pipe is in parallel, so while it reduced the total amount of pipe by 90% the line from the pump to the jets is almost identical… both systems run a large 2″ pipe from the pump to the manifold once at the manifold it splits into 12 3/4″ hoses to the jets, well 12 3/4″ hoses is about 9″ of water carrying which is way less resistance than the original 2″ pipe… now if all that pipe was in a line (series) then there would be a big difference but when these pipes are in parallel it actually reduces the total resistance… https://www.augusta.k12.va.us/cms/lib01/VA01000173/Centricity/Domain/396/Resistance_in_the_Fluid_System.pdf

    these guys are a ways away but i think they told me they have a local service guy there…

    East Coast Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  438. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:33 pm

    Marquis or Master, the ABS shell on the Bullfrog makes it a no-go for me.

    The Marquis has twin diverters and about 19 of the high flow jets, but no real neck jet system and no real foot jet system (those little low flow jets do not move anywhere near enough water to really do any good on feet or any big muscle mass). and a lot of the little inexpensive low flow jets.

    The TS series performance wise is by far the winner it has a dozen of the High flow jets and all the rest are the mid flow and there are none of the cheap low flow jets. It has an amazing wrap around neck jet system using 4 mid flow therapy jets and those massive jets in the floor are insane, you can divert an entire 6 hp pump to those jets and for feet, hips, legs and lower back those monster jets are the best.

  439. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    Windsor! me old stomping grounds πŸ™‚ I grew up on the old Windsor Dragway πŸ™‚

    Both tubs are equal from a build standpoint but if you go to beachcomber don’t get the hybrid even though they say its better go tot he Lepp with the pumps inside.

    but… those are 2 very different spas.. the Beachcomber does not do anything near to the performance of the Twilight, it would better be compared to the HL from a ;performance standpoint, the jetting and flow rates are miles apart, that twilight can flow 4x more water through the main captains seat and the foot jets again can flow 4x times more than the BC… they are both solid spas but the BC’s don’t build anything in the super high-end therapy spas like the twilight.

  440. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    ow she cuttin dere by’e

    Marquis or beachcomber but stay away from the Hybrid models… Bad tech…

  441. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    Hi Joanne

    We have had an eye on the CMP jets and are just about to add them tot he recommended list, they have been in the field for a few years now and are performing well. in fact, all three of our top-rated brands have switched over to them over the past couple years. The biggest problem with the click in jets has always been the failure on the tabs that lock in because the older style had these tabs tath would flex and then click in place, over time as the plastic lost its flexibility they would break off. The CMP uses two blades that slot into a groove in the body and the plastic does not need to flex to lock and the plastic is less susceptible to stiffening.

    Warranty is always hard to figure out, lots of times they are pro-rated so you pay a portion. it’s arbitrary and you always pay for every year… If a guy is offering 5 years it does not mean the reliability is better it just means he has worked it into his price… if a guy offers 3 years he worked that into his price… Upgrade all the warranties to the same and look at the cost but don’t think that just because they have a 5-year warranty cost into the tub price that its any indication of quality.

    I like the twilights and all the pricing you have there is good.

    Shell colour… Always buy white (Silver marble) dark colours show all the finger marks and dirt… just look at cars in a parking lot the black cars always look dirty and the white always look clean.. plus the lighting it way better in a light spa and it does not date your purchase…

    A Twilight is a good spa and the price is right.

  442. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    The two other ones are better than the bullfrog for sure, I’m not a fan of the all the gimmicks and its a pedestal supported ABS shell.

    I have literally put 20 or 30 deals through the guys below, they are a little further out but have a boo at them as well.

    East Coast Spas
    Remove
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    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  443. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    Hi Stacey.

    I swear I am going to open a store there.

    I get so many requests for help out there and there are just no good options on the ground in So Cal.

    I think what happened in this:

    The state fair and the expo and the tent sales guys have hammered that area for so long that the local retailers have just dried up.

    There are as a result a ton of independent service guys and these guys are usually really good for on the ground service.

    There are few retailer and the ones that are there carry the Hot springs Caldera (same parent co) lines. In my opinion, they are mid grade spas at best and you get to pay twice what they are worth to cover the millions they spend on Brand awareness, fancy marketing and BS πŸ™‚

    There is one guy who does Marquis

    Pacific Coast Sauna & Spa
    Status: Unverified.

    All we know is they say they carry Marquis which is on the edge of our recommended group. They seem to build a decent product but They refuse to give us access to their manufacturing to verify the build… Everyone else is bugging me to come see what they are doing we have done 3 factory tours already in 2018 and these guys won’t even return calls…
    Remove
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    2176 S El Camino Real, San Mateo, CA 94403
    pcsaunaandspa.com
    +1 650-212-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  444. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Hey Anthony

    From a build standpoint, I like all these tubs, they are very similar construction if you order the marquis with the full foam (standard on the other 2). All these spas have moved over to the CMP jets system. I have to say Im being converted, this system is working reliably and while traditionally I would have been all over click in jets being a bad thing and I still am for the ones with the tabs on them these new blades lock in well and I am just finishing up some research and about to start endorsing them.

    performance wise look a the jetting…

    The HL is the entry one here, it has no diverter and about 11 of the high flow therapy jets.

    The next is the Epic which has twin diverters and about 19 of the high flow jets, but no real neck jet system and no real foot jet system (those little low flow jets do not move anywhere near enough water to really do any good on feet). and a lot of the little inexpensive low flow jets.

    The TS series performance wise is by far the winner it has a dozen of the High flow jets and all the rest are the mid flow and there are none of the cheap low flow jets. It has an amazing wrap around neck jet system using 4 mid flow therapy jets and those massive jets in the floor are insane, you can divert an entire 6 hp pump to those jets and for feet, hips, legs and lower back those monster jets are the best.

  445. Reply
    admin March 4, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    in a cold climate, the 100v has some big drawbacks.

    1. on a cold day with the cover off the temp drops quickly with a 110v
    2. 220v is more efficient
    3. very limited performance on 100v

  446. Reply
    admin March 4, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Middle of the road.

    I like the parts list and the insulation but don’t like ABS shells. these shells need to be supported with props and pedestals to keep them from breaking, I want a good hand rolled fibreglass shell.

  447. Reply
    admin March 4, 2018 at 6:38 pm

    the Dynasty and the Twilight have the best neck jets out there, good mid flow jets that are interchangeable and have loads of flow. Unfortunately, I could not with all good conscience recommend the dynasty, the one I reviewed wasn’t exactly stellar.

    The problem with most neck jets is they are the little low flow jets and they just do not move enough water to really work well.

  448. Reply
    admin March 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Hey Jason.

    God, I love what great marketing guys can come up with πŸ™‚ several brands pitch this “every drop filtered” or 100% filtration and its all bullshit.

    This is just using a buzzword to fool you… How all filter systems really work is the water goes through a filter which cleans all the debris out of the water, then that water gets dumped back into the tub so right away it gets mixed into the unfiltered water… over time more and more water is filtered and after a few hours, there is no debris left. The only way to really have 100% filtration is to pump the water through a filter into another container, then once it is all filtered you can put it back into the hot tub… This is simply dishonest and they should not be claiming it is 100% filtration it is marketing Spin all of it…

    So the Artesian is good but 100 miles might as well be 1000. Once you get past the 50-mile mark most dealers shit the bed unless they specialise in these long-distance arrangements. It can be workable but you don’t really have much in the area for independent service guys so I would be leary, some areas like so-cal have so many independents that you can buy anything with a good remote dealer and a standard OEM parts list and have great service.

    Dr wellness should not be on the shortlist.

    These guys have a few issues but they are probably the largest seller of hot tubs in the world. And in all fairness to them when you do remote sales in the volume they do you are going to have issues from time to time. if you were buying remote then we could have that discussion but with them right there where you can walk into their showroom I would think that’s not an issue.

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    3.9View in Google Maps

  449. Reply
    admin March 2, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    Hey mark

    No worries dude welcome!

    So let’s reform your list…

    (Sundance, Jacuzzi) (Caldera, Hot Springs) these are the same companies and the problem I have with both companies and all four brands are two things.

    1. These corporate meatheads are so smart that they figured out the most profitable business model for a hot tub company. In fact, if this was a blog about investing in the hot tub industry these guys would be my number one superstar pick! it’s funny what perspective does though because as an end user these are mid grade spas that cost twice as much as they should because of the money spent convincing people that they are great saps!
    2. Part of the profit model is to make goofy parts that just fit their hot tubs instead of spending the money on good readily available top end parts. This does two things for them. It lowers the cost of producing the product, and it lets them fix the price for parts at whatever they want to charge because you cant get the part anywhere but through them, and the parts are nowhere near as reliable as the good OEM stuff.

    I would personally never put myself in a position of having one source for parts. If you stick with the top OEM brands Like Balboa, Waterways, and even CMP then you will have better reliability and if you ever have an issue you will have lots of competitive places to buy the parts.

    Marquis has good parts good construction and is on my good guy list. curious where did you find marquis, I did a search of the area for you and only found a Master dealer and the other ones you mentioned. send me the details so I can update my database chris@hottubuniversity.com

    Nordic only does entry-level roto mould shells but the build a good entry level spa, the only thing keeping them out of my top list is the insulation which is a combo of old school down and dirty poly foam 3/4″ or so on the shell and some weird fibre batton stuff hanging inside the skirt.

    Passion spas. No idea, I have never heard of them but it’s very rare that these little regional guys build to the right standard, they do not do enough turnover to afford to innovate or indeed to implement innovation when it comes down the pipe.

    So that would leave me with the Marquis or there is a Master dealer here:

    Above & Beyond

    Details from Google Maps
    203 Armour Rd, North Kansas City, MO 64116
    http://www.aboveandbeyondkc.com
    +1 816-421-4011
    4.3View in Google Maps

  450. Reply
    admin March 1, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    Hey Ken

    The low R-value cheap batton style insulation on the Maxx would right away make it a no-go for me. This trend of trying to fool people into believing that a big air gap is an insulation is bonkers… insulation is all about cutting the air up into pockets so that the heat transfer is slowed dramatically. the pitch about trapping the heat in there is also bonkers because you do not need that big empty area to reclaim the motor waste heat, you should spend the money to fill the area, get a great r value then reclaim the heat through the ozone system which all spas do anyway…

    these are not much I like you, you have three master dealers about 200 miles away and there are 2 local independent service guys there. In areas like this where you have resources on the ground, you can buy out of the area and if the dealer is good at communication it can be a good scenario.

  451. Reply
    admin March 1, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    Hi Joe

    No man yer OK as long as you have a good dealer that is used to working with the goofy intricacies of that line.

    My argument about buying that line is that it is marketed as a top tub and then has all these goofy proprietary parts. Then the non-removable skirt it just nuts! I had a customer throw out a 5-year-old top of the line Hot Springs spa because of leaks. they cut the hell out of the sides and then spent ages digging out all that cheap poly foam that had turned to a rock and in the end, they literally cut the tub in half to get rid of it. a simple $200 repair on any tub with Icynene foam and removable sides.

    I guess in the end it’s the duplicity that bugs me… these spas should be the middle price but because of the scads of cash spent on branding and marketing it costs 1/3rd more and that’s a 1/3 they could have spent on building a great spa, using better parts, and improving the insane access issues.

  452. Reply
    admin February 28, 2018 at 2:25 pm

    No Bullfrog is definitely above jacuzzi on my scale, they actually build a pretty decent spa line with an upper mid performance on their top end spas and a good parts list but the shell is ABS which I don’t like, too many failures on those types of pedestal supported shells, they came out in the late 80’s and made a big splash but most people went away from them, they just were not that good.

    There is a Marquis spa dealer near the south bend, they are a decent build better than those ones for sure.

    There are also two master dealers but they are a ways away.

    let me see what I can find.

  453. Reply
    admin February 28, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    Def the Artesian or marquis over the coast. model wise comes down to what you want to use the spa for, talk tot he local sales guys. generally more of the big jets means more expensive and better perfromance.

  454. Reply
    admin February 27, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Price seems good. I like the brand did you see that at Coastal Spa and Patio Store?

    look at the Nordic here as well.

    Spa Tek
    Status: Unverified

    We know nothing about these guys but for entry level spas the Nordic brand is on our good guy list.

    Nordic does entry level well made spas.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    21401 Budlong Ave, Torrance, CA 90502
    spatek.com
    +1 310-539-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  455. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 8:31 pm

    Hi Patricia

    try these guys:

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Marquis, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.5View in Google Maps

    Or these guys:

    Spa Tek
    Status: Unverified

    We know nothing about these guys but for entry level spas the Nordic brand is on our good guy list.

    Nordic does entry level well made spas.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    21401 Budlong Ave, Torrance, CA 90502
    spatek.com
    +1 310-539-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  456. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    Hi Jim!

    I can see you are angry mate, anything I can do to help let me know…

    I’m in rural Canada dude, yes, of course, I sell one of the 5 brands I recommend… What kind of credibility would I have if I didn’t???

    I also recommend 2 brands that I compete against in my local market so there is that theory out the window πŸ™‚

    I helped thousands of people in the U.S. buy hot tubs last year, literally, for free for no good reason other than to help. And none of that helped me at all I already dominate the local market… I mean really… Can you imagine having me as a competitor???

    Trust me man, This was for fun so I could yell at the injustices of a messed up industry, now 18 months later its the hottest blog site in the world for hot tubs and I’m still doing it for nothing.

    But I am helping dealers too man. Get in touch and let me know what your local market is like and what brands you carry, I can help you make your business unstressful, profitable and with hundreds of happy customers yelling your praises just like my customers do for me.

    Don’t be a hater, be a changer man… Sell good, sustainable spas and take great care of your customers!

    Have a great day dude and I hope you have success!

  457. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    Hi Patricia!

    Good tub but I would not bother with the micro silk.

    for Psoriasis use aqua finesse, i swear they use in right out of the bottle for eczema

  458. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    So first off both these brands deserve your business they build good spas and are comparable performance wise.

    If you want to split hairs I would veer away from the vector 21 only because of the goofy parts which could be an issue to source down the road. they also renamed everything to confuse people but there does not seem to be any real innovation or anything dramatically different than current tech except the look…

  459. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    I would still say the Marquis is the better buy than the other two for sure as long as the dealer is good.

    You also have a local independent service guy there so you could buy out of the market from a fair or something.

    Reno Spa Co
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4050 S McCarran Blvd C, Reno, NV 89502
    http://www.renospa.com
    +1 775-826-3636

  460. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    Lounges are funny, you like the idea because in our dryland environment loungers are comfy… But when I put you in a water environment you are floating so a lounger really doesn’t do much and takes up a ton of room… 80% or so of second-time buyers go no lounger.

    Artesian then Marquis, I only put the Marquis back one because where Artesian and master, and Cal Spas, and several others have invited us to see their facilities to prove they are doing, these guys won’t even return my calls πŸ™‚

    ozone is usually standard and no not worth anything. to do ozone right and worthwhile you really need a complicated system for injection, absorption, and off-gas destruct and you just do not get that in hot tubs because it is a $1000 system instead of the $200 ozone system on hot tubs…

  461. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    So from a build standpoint, they are even.

    Performance wise the Grand Bahama is higher than the Healthy living and slightly lower than the Twilight spa which is the next line up from healthy living.

  462. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    i think they are one of the best if not the best all-round roto mould on the market.

    Good Balboa controls, glued and clamped plumbing, full foam, and really nice new colors.

    The only other one I would even consider is the Nordic, which is the same except the insulation is not as good.

  463. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    Hi Sue

    I had a look around the area.

    Hydropool I would not have on my short list, good parts but a thin cradle supported shell and the insulation is the cheapest available. man stay away from radiant insulation systems there is a good reason why this stuff is not used in regulated industries like primary insulation in construction…

    Not thermospas, Endless pool is good but was just bought by Hot Springs Watkins group so that puts a lot of unknowns out there, and the reality is the Phelps 60″ deep swimmer is just so far ahead of anything out there for build quality, water flow, programmability for interval training that if you are going to spend the money its the best out there by a mile. that whole Phelps thing wasn’t just a paid endorsement. It really was in the true sense of the word a collaboration to build a swim spa good enough to be of value to competitive swimmers. they did hours and hours of training and modifying with Phelps and Bob Bowman and that swimmer is truly in a call of its own.

    I get that seeing a dirty spa can put you off but 2 things… 1. if you run a retail store at some point your display spa will be cloudy the water off. I’ve had a group of people come swim in my swimmer and right after they are out its a mess for half a day while it cleans up because they were covered in sunscreen and lotions and wore t-shirts full of soap from the laundry… I know Ryan the owner of Aquahaven and they usually do a great job but they are also busy out fo market with fairs and stuff. Ryan said they are going to have a Phelps set up to swim in in the next week or so.

  464. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    Hi Myles

    Man Edmonton is just been busy as hell this week, you are the third guy I spoke to there.

    I’ll be honest there are just no brands in my top tier there, no Marquis, or Artesian or twilights, or masters. the best bet is beachcomber locally but man those guys are nuts on the price and the performance only goes ot the mid-upper level on my scale.

    I did a bunch of digging and spoke to three local companies and th a big sale comes through and these local independent service companies have sprung up to handle the delivery and on the ground, parts swapping and repairs.

    We are seeing this in some areas where state fairs, big tent sales and expo type events happen a lot and it can be a good thing for you the end user because these independents do one thing only… fix hot tubs and they are usually better than most retailers πŸ™‚

  465. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    Hi Angie

    We don’t really want to choose a manufacturer we support a way of building hot tubs that we know through experience is going to be sustainable for you the end user.

    Several brands fit the bill.

    check these guys out:

    Master Pool & Spa
    Master Pool And Spa
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St. Louis Park, MN, 55426
    Phone: 952-543-0220
    info@masterpoolandspa.com

  466. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 3:09 pm

    Hey Tracey

    I toured the Artesian factory this January.

    These guys are building right and making a great hot tub.

    That being said they are small and growing quickly in a large part due to this site and they do not have the back end to handle customers. So you are restricted to your local dealer. I have heard this both from existing, and past dealers and experienced it while trying to arrange to see their factory. That says a lot because through my recommendations about 170 people bought Artesian last year and they cant even return my calls πŸ™‚

    But that’s not all bad, just make sure you have a solid source for good information and there is on the ground service support.

    or go see these guys:

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

  467. Reply
    admin February 21, 2018 at 7:32 pm

    Hi Terri

    That’s a crazy claim. the soft tub does not have an onboard system that can account for this, alot of people use the spa frog with them but you cant use the enzyme or mineral salt system with them because the filtration rate is too low.

    it’s a lot of money for a vinyl liner spa with a control and heating system that is all proprietary with expensive replacement parts.

  468. Reply
    admin February 21, 2018 at 7:29 pm

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved!

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799

    Spa World
    Status: Unverified

    These guys carry Artesian spas, good solid well built spas, the retailer is unverified, have them contact us to become a hot tub University approved center and get extra back up from us on your hot tub purchase!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4357 E McDowell Rd, Phoenix, AZ 85008
    http://www.azspaworld.com
    +1 602-275-3036
    4.3View in Google Maps

  469. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    not sure what is good or bad with cedar tubs. i would assume aquafinesse or spa marvel would work but check with the tub maker.

  470. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Hi Naomi

    jacuzzi belongs to the group of guys that I feel spend too much on branding and marketing and not enough on the tub. These guys have parts made that only fit their hot tub which means you are now in the unfortunate circumstance of having only one source for parts and limited fall back on service. I would never personally buy or sell a brand that does not use the good NA OEM parts that you can buy easily and competitively.

    email me where you live and ill see what I can find out there πŸ™‚

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  471. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    You have loads of good options:

    our number one rec would be:

    Dougs Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Endorsed Brands: Master Spas

    Met these guys in Fla good bunch with a great brand –
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5121 S Campbell Ave, Springfield, MO 65810
    http://www.dougspoolandspa.com
    +1 417-882-7665
    5.0View in Google

    or these guys

    Le Dipping Parlor Spas
    Unknown dealer – Endorsed Brands: Nordic, Non-endorsed brands: Sunrise
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2461 S Campbell Ave, Springfield, MO 65807
    http://www.ledippingparlorspas.com
    +1 417-881-0898
    4.8View in Google Maps

    or these guys:

    American Pool & Spa
    Unknown dealer – Endorsed Brand: Marquis
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3237 E Sunshine St A, Springfield, MO 65804
    http://www.myamericanpool.com
    +1 417-887-0577
    4.4View in Google Maps

  472. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    Hi David

    WiFi – Dogy on tubs sometimes due to signal shielding from the water.
    Stereo – Make sure its blue tooth
    ABS pan – Here nor there, frankly as long as you have a decent base its really not an issue.
    a better cover for sure
    better warranty is your level of comfort, the average will always be lower than the cost fo the extension but its luck really.

    check out the Twilights and MPL’s here as well.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master

    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  473. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    Hi

    Caldera is owned by Watkins who owns Hot Springs, endless pool, limelight etc. ^Thesee guys don’t make my list because of the parts. Instead of using the really good reliable proven parts like Balboa heating and controls they get parts made to just fit their spas.. its a good ploy… cheaper parts, and you are locked in forever because you can only get the paRTS FROM THEM πŸ™‚

    I would never buy or sell a brand that does do not use the good OEM parts…

    go see these guys

    Sun Leisure Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified
    Approved Brand: Marquis

    We don’t know jack about the dealer but the brand is solid.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6323, 960 S McCarran Blvd, Sparks, NV 89431
    http://www.sunleisurepools.net
    +1 775-359-6073
    4.3View in Google Maps

  474. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    Hi David

    Sorry for the delay, My wife was hospitalised Friday and is sick as heck.

    Anyway… yer right if you have to buy out of the market than Costco seems like a safe bet because of the return policy but their spas are crap…

    Your market is a mess, loads of goofy brands and of course the big fancy marketing brands I don’t like the Hot Springs and Sundance Spas, these guys spend too much on the brand name bs and not enough on the hot tub.. goofy proprietary parts and in some cases even no removable skirts! these things are overpriced mid grade spas wrapped in beautiful marketing.

    I went through 15 different retailers and there is nothing on my top list at all.

    go see these guys, a bit out of the way but top brands.

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    507 W Lincoln St, Tullahoma, TN 37388
    http://www.facebook.com
    +1 931-455-2500
    5.0View in Google Maps
    35.35733, -86.21697

  475. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:36 pm

    not on my good guy list dude, mid grade.

    see these guys:

    Cedar Works Spa & Sauna
    Status: Unverified
    Brand: Marquis

    We don’t know these guys but they carry marquis wich is a good spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4065 W 11th Ave #16, Eugene, OR 97402
    http://www.cedarworksspas.com
    +1 541-485-6800
    4.3View in Google Maps

  476. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    Hi Egypt.

    Yeah the US has a lot more options.

    personally, i would not go salt, its old tech from the 90’s being reintroduced as the new thing. IOts ok-ish but highly corrosi9ve to the tub and decking and concrete, and all it does in make chlorine πŸ™‚ the levels are mid around 1-3 PPm but with newer tech, you can get down to half a part per million. see this video:

    go see H2X swim spas, these guys are deeper, flow more water, better built, better insulated and if you use the eco pure system they have with aqua finesse you can get the easiest lowest chemical levels of any hot tub or swim spa out there... 3x lower than the old salt systems.

    call grif...

    griffryan@hotmail.com>
    Griffin Ryan
    416 779 0563

  477. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    Hi Tim

    Sorry for the delay in responding, my wife was hospitalised Friday and I’ve been a little preoccupied.

    Man, I have a few guys in the area but none that do really high-end stuff, they all are entry levels brands. I do have a guy for service there though and we might be able to arrange something through him, Frankly, none of the brands near you I would have on my short list, the nearest marquis, Artesian or Master guy i can find is 56 miles which should be in the ok range for a good dealer

    check these guys out:

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    These guys have helped a pile of HTU customers and I have had nothing but good feedback from them
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.2View in Google Maps

  478. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hi Niel.

    Yeah, they had circ pump. its why you never hear me endorse the LSX line… They now have it available without a circ pump πŸ™‚

    Ill email you with some solutions.

    The eco pure is all about getting rid of chlorine and bromine. breathing in that steam is bad news. I like eco pure, or nature 2 or spa frog with an enzyme like spa marvel or a mineral salt like aquafitness. super easy to manage and reliable and super low chemical.

  479. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    You know its funny.

    I always say a great brand with a crap dealer is worse than a mid-grade brand with a good dealer.

    It sounds like all of your issues here were dealer related… no reason any new spa of any brand cant be fixed or replaced in a week.

    what was it that was wrong?

  480. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    Good Tub High price. But NY is pricey.

    Frog is a zinc copper or silver Ion, it works well with aqua finesse or an enzyme system. better cover yes lights are nice and inexpensive

  481. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    HOLY CRAP THATS DAMN NEAR WE OLD STOMPIN GROUNDS πŸ™‚

    go see these guys:

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL-STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

    or

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    Unknown Dealer – Carries Master Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    227 Bunting Rd, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com
    +1 905-684-0770
    5.0View in Google Maps

  482. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    Neither are great choices, the jacuzzi suffers from an abysmal goofy parts list that they make to just fit their tub so they can own your ass for parts forever, the Hydropppol has great parts but the thin cradle supported shell and the cheap insulation and the old self-cleaning floor systems make it a total no-go for me.

  483. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    Hi Greg.

    both brands are built very similarly.

    the master beast it out at the higher end of the Twilight line but in the mid-end stuff, it’s very similar.

    I toured the Master Factory and they opened their whole operation up so we could verify what they are doing but the Marquis guys won’t let me in which always makes me wonder what they are hiding πŸ™‚

    That is absolutely the most expensive and best insulation method and does not affect the maintenance issues because it is a special expensive foam that does not harden.

  484. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    Hi Ginger

    sorry for the late response, my wife was hospitalised Friday and its all been kind of flat out since then.

    Nothing right in your area but over near Raleigh…

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com
    +1 919-772-7745
    4.4View in Google Maps

  485. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    Hi Lisa.

    a sick wife, busy week here is the short of it πŸ™‚

    the only brand i like there is these guys :

    Splash Pools and Spas
    Status: Unverified

    Artesian is a good brand but we don’t know the dealer and have not reviewed them.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8030 Philips Hwy, Jacksonville, FL 32256
    splashpoolsandspas.com
    +1 904-737-9999
    3.7View in Google Maps

    But you have 3 local service guys, these independents mean you can buy any tub with a good compliant parts list and likely have a good service level.

  486. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    there are lots of the usual suspects out here.

    sorry for the lack of response, my wife is sick.

    I would check out the Masters here:

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends, personally viewed the operation and met the people.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

    Or I would go see the marquis spas here:\

    AquaPRO Pools & Hot Tubs
    Status: Unverified

    The dealer is unknown to us but the Brand Marquis is well built. They range from entry level to mid upper performance.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    18025 Yonge St #1, Newmarket, ON L3Y 8C9
    http://www.aquapropools.ca
    +1 855-905-7665
    4.2View in Google Maps

  487. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    Yeah, mixed results. I’m not going to endorse it right now. we found the tub’s water felt really oily and we needed to shock it and chlorinate it a bit.

  488. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    hi Greg

    Sorry for the delay in responding my wife was checked into the hospital a couple days going so It’s been a bit mad around here.

    Right off the bat, the jacuzzi in the Hot Springs wouldn’t be on my shortlist. The problem with these guys as they spend too much money on The Branding in the marketing and not enough money on building a hot tub. These are your mid-grade Spas wrapped and beautiful branding made to look like a high-end product. Goofy things like proprietary parts that you can’t Source easily, non-removable sides and other cost-cutting measures just take these guys out of my top range.

    The Master Spa range is one of my go-to Brands. Things like hand-rolled self-supporting shells glued and clamped Plumbing lines, good North American parts list and a full foam insulation package make it hard to compete against. If you can find a Marquis or Artesian dealer they’re also a good tub built very similarly.

  489. Reply
    admin February 16, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    Hi Carol

    The Arctics I don’t like for the same reason I don’t like the jacuzzi’s… lots of cheap goofy parts that they have made to just for their spas so they own you for life. I would never consider a brand without Balboa heating and control system. Hydropool has a good parts list but the shell is a thin cradle supported shell and that Mylar insulation is junk… I can’t believe after we finally got rid of that stuff in the home building industry it’s rearing its ugly head 20 years later as some new miracle tech… It’s cheap and low R-value.

    Beachcomber is a good tub but stay away from the goofy Hybrid option get it with the integrated pumps under the hot tub, but man they are so overpriced and the Performance is upper mid at best.

    Beachcomber Hot Tubs London
    Status: Unverified.

    These guys are an unknown to us but the carry Beachcomber which in the non Hybrid Model is in our good guy list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    754 Wharncliffe Rd S, London, ON N6J 2N4
    http://www.bht-london.com
    +1 519-681-0249
    4.9View in Google Maps

    for higher end go to these guys:

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  490. Reply
    admin February 16, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    Hey Nate.

    The Twilight or the Marquis for sure out of that lot. the Bullfrog has a thin ABS plastic shell with pedestal supports to keep it together and the other 2 brands have hand-rolled fibreglass self-supported hulls… Miles better and more expensive to build.

    The advantage of the Twilight is there is better jetting, and the twin diverters mean you can divert a whole 6 Hp pump tot he main captains seat and the same with the other pump to the foot monster jets. check out this video I shot of my Twilight.

  491. Reply
    admin February 15, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    Ahhh

    That’s why I’m getting so much action down there this week!

    Man, I searched that area large this week and it explains why the independent service market is so buoyant there are like 4 guys down there doing service.

    It depends on the brand at the expo if it’s a good brand there are lots of resources on the ground for getting service done and you are probably fine if it’s a crap brand then it’s a crap brand.

    Drop me an email on chris@hottubuniversity.com and let me know who is doing it and ill look into it.

  492. Reply
    admin February 15, 2018 at 8:24 pm

    Hey Jay

    man, that area of the country is downright dysfunctional when it comes to hot tubs. not many retailers and the ones that are left are all the big brand names like Hot Springs and Jacuzzi or low-end junk. the problem with the big heavily branded lines is a lot of fo times they are using goofy proprietary parts so they can screw you for life with crazy parts costs because no one can get you parts, I never look at brands that do not carry the top quality parts list. Not only will these parts be a lot more reliable but you will never have issues getting parts and the parts will be competitively priced because you can get them at loads of places online and in retail stores, plus when you stick with a good American made parts list you can get local service guys to fix it reliably.

    there is one gem down there… Nordic spas which do a great priced line that is built well. In cold climates like Canada, I would be hesitant because the insulation is not my number one rated system

  493. Reply
    admin February 15, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    Hi Danielle

    Its a labour of love but its starting to crush me πŸ™‚

    Of your list, I would recommend the Artesian I visited the factory this year and these guys although small are building a good solid hot tub. Again due to the size of the facility their range of products doesn’t get into crazy therapy massage spas where it is all about the massage but they do cover that other 90% really well.

    I saw Cal Spas this year and did the factory tour and they are really working at the quality control and back-end support for their customers which is great to see but it’s not going onto my number one list right now, we will revisit them for 2019 maybe. The shell was a bit of a letdown, it’s not a hand-rolled shell and they support it with 2×3’s to offset it and the metal which looks like angle iron in the marketing really was thin strips of metal similar in strength to the edging you use ion drywall and will make very little difference to the structure of the tub. They also went to Waterways control systems on all but their top stuff and although Waterways makes great plastic parts moving to this electronic control and heating system could be a big risk.

    For install have the finished tub about 18″ to 20″ (chair height) above the deck, then you can walk up to the tub sit on the edge of the spa and swing your legs over. If you mount it down into the deck you have to get on the floor to get in and then up from the floor when you get out…

    The booster seat is a good solution, you will find spas are built for the average size, short people always have an issue with the depth, some spas have one higher seat (cool down seat) but it is usually too shallow.

    In the 6k number try and find a good roto mould, the new ones look good and there are some that are really built well like Getaway Spas, and Nordic Spas. Rebuilds can be good or a freeking nightmare.. make sure you get a 2 year parts and labour even if you have to pay a couple hundred, if i have a great refurb Im willing to guarantee it

    For the water cleansing, you right ignore it all for now and ping me when you get going don’t order any of the upgraded chemical reduction systems, if they are standard then fine but don’t spend more money on this it’s already a solved problem.

    Maintenance is the basic stuff, rinse your filters, balance your water. unless there is an issue there is really not a lot to do. most customer “issues” are really just them not having the information in a timely fashion, the actual on the ground service is both easy and reliably done by any decent handyman with a good back up support staff for troubleshooting and you can always use us for that.

    I had a look around and there are not many good options for you. check out the artesian dealer here:

    Hot Tub Spa Store
    Status Unverified

    We know nothing about the local guy and he carries a weird mix of spas but the Artesian he sells is a good spa the rest are not brands I would buy or sell.

    Details from Google Maps
    10755 Scripps Poway Pkwy Ste 409, San Diego, CA 92131
    http://www.spastore.com
    +1 858-210-8062
    5.0View in Google Maps

  494. Reply
    admin February 14, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    They don’t clamp their plumbing lines and the insulation if you live in a cold area would be a no-go for me.

    I searched the Chesapeake area and there is a guy out a bit from you that does Master which is one of my goto brands.

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    155 S Rosemont Rd, Virginia Beach, VA 23452
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    +1 757-490-7727

  495. Reply
    admin February 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Hi Tommy

    Man, that’s a busy area this month, you are the fourth person out there and there is just not a lot of good choices unless you go to Cinci.

    There must be a big state fair or a big yearly hot tub sale in the area because there are 4 independent service guys right in your area.

    The only semi-local option I would have on my shortlist is these guys:

    Tim’s Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We do not know the dealer but they carry Artesian which is a good reliable spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1065 Reading Rd, Mason, OH 45040
    http://www.timshottubstoremasonoh.com
    +1 513-777-3833
    4.6View in Google Maps

  496. Reply
    admin February 13, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Nordic builds a good tub. It’s my number 2 on the Rotomould spas and the only reason it is isn’t number one is the insulation and even that’s not terrible, they use a bit of foam and then a blanket inside the skirt.

    It shows you in Manhatten if that right then checks out these two guys below if not email me on chris@hottubuniversity.com

    East Coast Spas
    Status HTU ALL STAR

    I met with these guys several times and they just do a great job they have helped out at least 15 or 20 HTU customers, they carry Getaway very similar to the Nordic with better insulation.

    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

    I don’t know these guys but they carry Marquis which is a good all-round hot tub brand.

  497. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    Sonja, I am assuming you mean Premium Leisure. I’m pretty sure these guys got bought by an outfit in Tenn recently.

    Last time I looked they were using gecko heating and control systems, I’m really hardline on having a Balboa system. I also think they use a radiant insulation system.

    for the pumps, I like the Waterways or the Balboa.

    I cant find much in the area to recommend to you I looked at all the dealers there and can’t find any of my goto brands πŸ™

    I also see 3 separate independent service guys, when a market has this many independents it usually means either there are some service issues from the retailers or a lot of people are buying from out of the market at tent sales or state fairs. if you look at those options email me chris@hottubuniversity.com and ill call the local service guys and see if they know what they are doing.

  498. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    Beachcomber hybrid is old tech and I would order it without this “Upgrade” its bad science… pumping all your water outside of the insulation envelope makes zero sense and you lose the ability to reclaim the motor waste heat and you have a higher risk of fast freeze up equipment damage in power outages… All this downside so you can stuff a little more insulation in an area that already has 3-4x more insulation than 80% of the hot tub! and they are out to lunch on pricing. read this review.

    110v means very limited usage in the winter for you there. these 110v heaters cant keep up with the heat loss, on a cold day you only get 10 to 15 mins on the best ones before its not a hot tub anymore.

  499. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    I’m not a fan of Premium in general, Not a brand I would sell or buy.

    go see these guys, they do Marquis spas, a good well built reliable spa with a good easy to source parts list. They also do some really dodgy brands, they might be using the Marquis to get you in and then “upgrade” you to the other stuff…

    https://uniquepsb.com/

  500. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    I Like beachcomber from the build quality standpoint if you stay away from the Hybrid models, but performance wise they really only build up to the mid-upper end for massage.

    For that usage time a plug is fine if you don’t care about the massage end that much, you just can’t flow enough water on a 110v system for the hi flow therapy jets.

    Kingston I know well, I grew up in southern Ontario and have friends there.

    In the are you have Maxx, Hydropool, Sundance all brands I would not have on my floor for one reason or another.

    There are two local pool shops that do service for hot tubs, likely because the expo is there a lot usually this generates a pretty robust independent service industry and that can be a good thing if they are on the ball.

  501. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hey Sonya!

    It’s a jungle out there!

    Definitely the Marquis over the Hot Springs. Marquis is one of my goto brands and HS i would never consider selling or buying, goofy proprietary parts and non-removable sides with old poly based foams are just three huge strikes in my book.

    these guys carry Artesian, they make a great spa.

    https://www.wacopoolstore.com/

    OR

    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com/

    these guys carry Marquis, and Nordic again solid well built spas.

    http://www.premierehottubs.com/Premiere-Hot-Tubs—Austin-v2-207.html

    or

    https://www.lewakins.com/

  502. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    Hi Steve.

    Other than regional differences (small rural areas vs massive city’s) prices are fairly similar across the most lines a good retailer can usually sell at the same price as the big tent sales and state fairs and expos.

    Everyone quotes the pie in the sky retail, then the middle price is where you typically sell it. Getting a floor model can be the way to go and $10k for that tub in any market is low.

  503. Reply
    admin February 11, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    Happy birthday to you! Happy… aww crap I’m on vacation and just can’t type the whole thing out on my phone!

    via GIPHY

    There! sorry for the delay… I had to find a girl who would have my baby then make the giff… exhausting…

    Nothing around you I would buy, but there is a guy a little away.

    you also have a pretty good independent service industry there so state fairs or out of area sales events might be a scenario as long as you stay away from the brands with goofy proprietary parts.

    check out these guys…

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com

  504. Reply
    admin February 11, 2018 at 2:01 pm

    Dr Welness is not a brand I would have anywhere near my short list.

    so many gimmicks and no real substance.

    Goofy parts, although I heard they might offer balboa control and heating systems which would at least get them out of the basement but then radiant barrier insulation? man, this stuff was basically banned in the housing industry in the northern states int he 80’s and all of sudden 20 years later its the miracle insulation for hot tubs and it cost 10x less πŸ™‚

    Then those friction heaters LMFAO… that tech is so bass backward it’s not even funny. first electrical immersion heaters are super efficient near to 100% of the energy that goes into those heaters get into the water as heat energy. friction heaters, on the other hand, are horribly inefficient… think about the progression…

    1. we take electricity and convert it to mechanical energy in the electric motor inefficient as hell
    2. We transfer that energy into water pressure with the pump and get big losses in the transfer
    3. then we transfer that energy back into mechanical energy of friction… again huge loss
    4. then we transfer the mechanical energy into heat… Bonkers… this is just bullshit science to try and create a unique selling feature.

    Colorado Custom Spas
    Status: Unverified

    These guys carry a couple brands but Artesian is the only one on my short list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5270 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216
    coloradocustomspas.com
    +1 303-468-8827

  505. Reply
    admin February 11, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hi eric

    San fran has a ton of small local service guys, you should be ok down there.

    I wouldn’t order with any extras, Masterpur is as good or better than most of the chem reduction systems but the lowest chem and easiest to maintain is the standard eco pure system and Aquafinesse… I get to 1/2 a part per million of chlorine. I also hate circ pumps… bad tech with loads of issues and no upside at all and you can only get masterpur with circ pump.

  506. Reply
    admin February 9, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Not big fan.

    dont like pressure side filtration, dont like floor suctions(self cleaning) and definately do not like the radient barrier insualation…

    shell is ok parts are good all in all not somthing I would recomend especially as its sold as a high end spa, for that kid of money you can get somthing built better with way better insuation.

  507. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    The lounge seats are funny first time buyers buy them second time don’t, they take up a lot of room and the reality is you are floating… things like loungers and countoured chairs matter very little in a water environment.

    coast with full foam is a not a nightmare, they are not in my recommended brands but certainly better than a Hot Springs Jacuzzi type set up with all the goofy parts lists.

    There is a dealer for Master about 76 km away im not sure if they service your area but they should have somthing in the price range.

    East Coast Spas Inc.
    1424 Easton Road, Suite 300, Horsham, PA, 19040
    Phone: 732-823-8606
    ben@eastcoastspas.com
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    Your local Master Spas dealer is 76.2 miles away.
    Dealer match type: assigned zip
    From Database: masterspas

  508. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Hey Jay

    there are a few good independent service guys around you so you should be fine. Ill call them when i get back in town and make sure they know thier stuff.

    email me wht you want and ill see what I can set up for you.

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  509. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    Hi Pam

    ground Pep wise simply put down a patio stone base. you basically remove the grass and top soil put in crusher dust, level and tamp and drop on patio stones… 16 24″ stones gives you a good 8′ base.

    Viking is not a brand I would buy sell or endorse, you need at least the 4 main things and they just don’t do them…

    I looked around the area and you have lots of the usual suspects… mid grade spas that are spending too much on branding and bullshit and not enough on building a great hot tub.

    On the other hand you have highly developed independent service network, there are 5 guys there specializing in just service, this is great because these guys are usually a lot better than retailers for the service and it lets you get anything you want as long as you stick with a good parts list.

  510. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    Hey Nick

    I’m on the beach so I’m gonna make this quick, i need some R&R πŸ™‚

    Vita is not a brand i would carry buy or sell :-0 You really want at a minimum the big 4 things and they fall down on two of them. I also hate those old school floor domes! omg we got rid of those in the 90’s because you trip on the damn things all the time, you bleed tons of heat through the floor because you have the hot water running under the foot well and the damn jets are useless for feet anyway… the only way those tough old feet of yours are going to get and real massage is with a dedicated 10″ monster jet with ta diverter system to allow a whole pump to power it up.

    Man i must have gone through 40 stores in your area and beyond and there is very little out there try these guys

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com
    +1 919-772-7745

  511. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    Hey JP

    I’m on the beach for a week of R&R so I’m gonna keep this short the 9 am daily special rum drink is calling from the pool bar :-0

    For you the parts are key, rental units take a bashing, also look at going to a rotomould shell… safer for slip and falls as its textured and always looks clean and its indestructible… for rental its perfect.

    I look around the area and there is not much to cheer about out there, but you do have a good local guy who does service for all brands.

    I’m not over the moon with either brand but the salinas would be the better of the two.

  512. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    Pam, I looked everywhere over to Lexington, down to Elizabeth town and around to Cinci and the only thing I found that I would shortlist is out in Bloomington Which funnily enough is where my lovely Wife was born πŸ™‚ and up near Hamilton north of Cinc πŸ™

    the 110v systems really limit how long you can use them in cold weather and you really need to make sure you get a really well-insulated spa. go 220v if you can.

    Indiana Pools & Spas, Inc.
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about these guys other than they carry Marquis which for this area is the best its gonna get.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1206 S Walnut St, Bloomington, IN 47401
    http://www.indianapoolsandspas.net
    +1 812-334-3900

    Tim’s Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We do not know the dealer but they carry Artesian which is a good reliable spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1065 Reading Rd, Mason, OH 45040
    http://www.timshottubstoremasonoh.com
    +1 513-777-3833

  513. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    Hi Richard

    Salt systems are an old technology from the 80’s being regurgitated as new miracle systems. My advice is to stay away from it… it just makes chlorine or bromine out of highly corrosive salts, it’s hard to manage, unreliable, and only gets you to around 1-3ppm of chlorine or bromine!!! You are breathing that into your lungs!!! the aftermarket stuff like Aquafinesse is what you want… gets you to around .5 ppm if used with an ion mineral cartridge like eco pure or spa frog or nature II. See this article

    Not a fan of the fancy brands with all the goofy proprietary parts. Hot Springs are not super high-end spas, they are mid grade spas with goofy parts, beautiful branding and marketing and you can’t even take the sides off when you have a failure… look the through the forums and count the number of people looking for help fixing Hot Springs spas… these things are not reliably working in the field and when you get a failure expect to pay through the nose because there is only one source for the parts!

    Clearwater tropic seas and Maxx are middle of the road, Just the insulation is enough to make me run for the hills. there are no shortcuts or miracles… it’s crazy… we would never have this conversation in a regulated industry like the home building industry because we have codes to adhere to, these radiant barriers and batton type insulation systems used in hot tubs would never, ever, qualify anywhere in the world for home building so why should it be good enough for your hot tub which has a much higher heat loss due to the larger temperature difference? You want R-value!!! full foam Ivcynene if possible.

    And forget the

    Go see these guys they do marquis, it covers all the right things.

    Seattle Hot Tub Company
    Details from Google Maps
    11435 120th Ave NE Suite C, Kirkland, WA 98033
    http://www.seattlehottub.com
    +1 425-869-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  514. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Hey Fred.

    Sorry about the crap interface I am not a computer guy and I made this mess myself, I have a guy fixing it and making it a bit more friendly πŸ™‚

    That Hot Springs would have goofy power to the site, it would have had 2 lines a 30 and a 20 (I think)

    The problem is you need a 50 amp for every other tub on the planet… Talk to a sparky and see if they can put the 30 and the 20 back together in a pony panel and then run a 50amp GFI from the pony tot he tub…

    I’m not impressed with the choices If we can get you to a good parts list and away from the goofy proprietary parts it would be good. The ones that do have good parts in that list have other issues like ABS pedestal supported shells or cheap batton style or reflective foil insulation… I always try and at least get the 4 main things in a tub.

    I went through like 30 places from Buffalo to Syracuse and there is just not any brands I would buy or sell. I guess if I had to it would be a Cal Spa from these guys. I toured the Cal Factory this month and while they are not in my tier one group, they really seem to be making strides towards a better customer care and quality control process, we declined to put them in my tier one group but if they can reduce their skews (they have a bizarrely high number of spas for their volume) and clean up the back end they might become a player again.

    Hearth & Homes, USA
    Details from Google Maps
    9844 River Rd, Utica, NY 13502
    hearthandhomeusa.net
    +1 315-798-8887

  515. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    The rotomoulded shells are usually pretty durable, but the parts are not great. The style of click in jet they use looks like the ones with the little tabs on them and they are notorious for breaking. Its also looks like they are moving from Balboa control and heating system to Gecko, I won’t buy anything without Balboa on board. I also am not a fan of Batt style insulating, it’s cheap and cheerful, better than reflective radiant barriers but nowhere near as good or as high of an Rvalue as a good full foam Icynene system.

    Go see the new Getaway Hot Tubs, better parts better insulation and similar price,

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!

    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  516. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Hi Janette

    Salt systems are an old technology from the 80’s being regurgitated as new miracle systems. My advice is to stay away from it… it just makes chlorine or bromine out of highly corrosive salts, it’s hard to manage, unreliable, and only gets you to around 1-3ppm of chlorine or bromine!!! You are breathing that into your lungs!!! the aftermarket stuff like Aquafinesse is what you want… gets you to around .5 ppm if used with an ion mineral cartridge like eco pure or spa frog or nature II. See this article

  517. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 4:45 pm

    Hey, paul. I haven’t done a review of the area but I spent a week at a conference with the guys from Nationwide Spas, they have a big operation and carry really good brands. I’ll try and look for any other options but these would be my goto guys down there.

    It funny they wanted me to fly down and see their operation, it’s great when we get active dealers letting us have full disclosure.

    1834 Ferguson Drive, Austin , TX, 78754
    Phone: 512-364-1472
    jason@nationwidespas.com
    http://www.nationwidespas.com

  518. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 4:41 pm

    Not sure the only thing i could find was the Coast spa curve…

  519. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    Hi Jacey

    Never heard of Mira so I did some digging. it uses a good parts list but I hate those ABS plastic shells with the polyurethane backings, cheap to build but not strong enough to support its own weight, they usually have to put props and supports under the shell to keep it from breaking. I want a good hand rolled self-supporting shell. And some goofy green tech insulation they allude to… likely radiant or cheap batton insulation.

    funny enough I just looked at the other one and Clearwater is doing the same kind of pedestal supported shell and radiant barrier insulation.

    I cant recommend either of these.

    I looked at at least 20 places around Philly and NJ and i see all the usual suspects but only 2 gems…

    -Click the square on the upper right corner of the map to view larger map
    -zoom in on the map to your area
    -click on the markers I dropped and read the info I put in
    – You can toggle on if you are looking for just service, or just a good brand or a Hot Tub University approved Retailer which means we know these guys and they are doing good work, we stand behind them by offering our help if you ever buy from one of our endorsed dealers and you need help. It’s a new system I’m trying out!

  520. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Hi William.

    I’m not a fan of that brand at all, their branding is awesome, their marketing is spot on and the tubs are full of goofy proprietary parts so they can lock you in forever at whatever price they dictate… and some of the models don’t even have removable skirts! it’s insane…

    Man get something with a good reliable easy to source parts list, they last longer, work better and are competitively priced because you have tons of sources to buy the parts.

    I looked around the Santa Cruze area but to be honest I don’t care for any of the brands out there.

    There is a crazy high number of independent service guys though (5 separate companies). Its a really developed market and sometimes we see this where a lot of the tubs in the area are coming form Expos or state fairs.

    It can be a good thing, these little independent guys are usually good, competitively priced, and if there is someone to handle your calls for the information and the back end of the parts end you can have a good level of care.

  521. Reply
    admin February 1, 2018 at 10:09 pm

    Hi Joni

    It really depends on a few things.

    I had a look in your area and not surprisingly there are 4 separate independent guys within 10 minutes of you… crazy, But either way you have a good fallback position.

    And if you need help just call me and ill wack them with my big stick πŸ™‚

    Check out the local service guys out there.

  522. Reply
    admin February 1, 2018 at 4:10 pm

    I had a quick boo and right away the control systems not a Balboa, frankly at that point I did not look any further.

    I had a look around the area and populated the map in your area but man there are not a lot of options… and you have like 3 independent guys who do service in the area which means you can buy from anyone around a likely have a good support network.

    My mom lives just North of you and She bought a swim spa from South East Spas in West Palm and They have taken good care of her with a local service guy.

  523. Reply
    admin February 1, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    Any of the first 3 are good buys. I do really like the new shell design on the Clarity, that’s a brand new mould and the foot room is epic, you can really pack a ton of people in it.

  524. Reply
    admin January 31, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Linda go back to them they also sell Artesian, it is a much better-built spa than the Bullfrog by a mile, better shell, better performance… they will try and sell you the bullfrog as a higher end only because they get a better margin on that line, its over priced and overhyped… too many goofy gimmicks.

  525. Reply
    admin January 31, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    I use it with the eco pure (spa frog, nature 2 are similar) and ozone this further cuts down the needed chlorine. I use tabs and a floating dispenser and dial it down to a trickle and go 9-12 months on a batch of water at .5ppm… (you can buy af with tabs or grans)

    I have hundreds and hundreds of customers on this system and it is the easiest lowest chem combo I have ever found, but it’s pricy…

  526. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Hey Ryan

    This group has bought a few mid-range retailers. Not on my go-to list this is mid to entry level and would not be something I would sell a customer.

    I’ve been goofing on this google map customization thing I found so I did your area.

    Have a boo… None of these pricks are paying me anything yet but they are doing good things πŸ™‚

    The dealer I know there sells Getaway spas, its a good roto with good parts and good efficiency.

  527. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Hi Connie!

    You are making me work πŸ™‚ never heard of them so I called the factory. This will not be on my recommended list, they recently moved to gecko heating and control system, and while at least it has a readily available parts list I won’t buy anything not using Balboa, These guys hold some key patents and have 30 years making heating and control systems for hot tubs and they work well, are reliable and its dead easy to get parts and service.

    They also use eco batt insulation, cheap and cheerful, I want to see a good Icynene full foam system.

    Last they use an old style click in jet, you need to go either waterway threaded or the new CMP blade lock, I don’t know what they call it but there are 2 blades that lock in and the failure rate has been almost non-existent according to the three factories I toured this year so far.

    I had a boo around the area have a look at the ones below.

  528. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 5:26 pm

    Hi Karl.

    I’m really off with the abysmal communication from these guys. I pinged them 8 to 10 times after I put about 200 tubs generating $600k into their tills and I can’t even get a callback… I posed as me, a perspective dealer, and a troubled customer and Natta… and I’m not even trying to sell them anything! I’m just trying to get real hard answers and visibility so I can recommend them with confidence. Its either doggy as hell, underserved like crazy, or simply disorganised as a flea market… no idea…

    I have a lot of questions about the vector 21… it all seems to be buzzwords and spin with nothing other than the look changed, and that change means more proprietary parts which is never a good thing.

    So you can help me πŸ™‚ email me any details you found… chris@hottubuniversity.com

    The cartridges are basically like Spa Frog, Eco Pure, and any of the other silver/zink/copper ion systems, they work ok but you will be nearer the 1+ ppm chlorine level which is better than the salt systems at 1-3 ppm but not as good as the Aquafinesse mineral system at .5 ppm. I would use the frog at ease with the Aquafinesse (or spa marvel if I want to keep costs down).

    I went through your area and man there is not much good news nearby, I even went out further… have a look below.

  529. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    Hi Steve.

    No one want you to have that info… you should see the massive pressure I am getting from brands out there asking me to go away LMFAO!!!

    The pricks want you dazed and confused because when it comes down to sales guys instead of product quality, spin and branding instead of real science, and half-truths and lies instead of reliability.

    Price is a different kettle of fish… it changes dramatically regionally because of distance from the factory, local costs like rent and taxes, the volume of sales and quality of after support…

    That’s what this site was all about… cutting through the bullshit and looking at the real science behind the spin and marketing… I’m so fed up with all the bullshit!!!

  530. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Hey BP

    Back 15 years ago everything was built reasonably well, its funny as our tech gets better or bullshit machine gets better too, it seems like we know how to make something last just long enough πŸ™‚ I liked D1 but Jacuzzi is on a bizarre buying binge buying up these goofy brands and D1 is one of them.

    So Jacuzzi and Hot Springs are a no go for me… goofy parts that are nowhere near as reliable as the good OEM stuff and you are held for ransom for ridiculous prices on replacements because they have you by the balls, they are the only guys who can get you parts… It’s the oldest trick in the book, build a mid-grade spa spend scads on branding and marketing and use a goofy proprietary parts list so you own the customer forever. access issues, and just overpriced for what it is… Never buy a hot tub without the Balboa heating and control system on it.

    Coast, the issue I have is pressure side filtration… old tech being reintroduced as innovation, there are a lot of downsides and no upsides… You absolutely want the water filtered on the suction side before it goes through the heater and pump… and crap insulation.

    Maxx the insulation is a joke… This Bluemaxx insulation competes with the best batton / celulose style insulation out there is around R-3.5 per inch or about a quarter less than 1″ of Icynene expanded foam… Now I always go back to the building code… in a house, this insulation type would need to be around 6″ think to meet code, so why is it ok suddenly in a hot tub to have 1.5 to 2″ of it???? It’s not… in fact a hot tub needs better insulation than your house because heat loss is all about tempo difference.. the bigger the difference the higher the heat loss so on a hot tub which is so much hotter than a house you need more than a house…

    Check out these guys:

  531. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    This negative review culture is sickening… Review sites are worse than useless because everyone abuses them…

    These guys carry a bizarre mix of brands which is always a bit worrying esp when they have these goofy parts brands like Hot Springs and Caldera… service nightmare but if they are a big player they might have it dialed in and they do say they carry Marquis which is the only one there I would look at. https://uniquepsb.com/

    that’s all I see…

    There is a Master Dealer in the south and there is an independent guy there doing service called

    http://www.spaserviceandsales.com/ so you might work out something there.

    phil@southeastspas.com
    http://www.southeastspas.com

  532. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:50 pm

    Hey LT

    I get the Island elite and tropical seas mixed up πŸ™‚ no idea why…

    I toured the Artesian factory (Island Elite) but just haven’t had time to write the review… too busy… all in all, it was good and they will remain on my recommended list, they do what they say…

  533. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    That’s a big number… You can go right to the top for that kind of money, and Bullfrog is pretty good but not the top… I hate that ABS plastic pedestal supported shells.

    These guys do Artesian:

    SUMMIT HOT TUBS
    P.O. BOX 906
    Dillon, CO. 80435 US

  534. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    I’m digging in and seeing if I can find anything out there for you.

  535. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    Hey

    I answered this but something must have happened, I might have clicked the next comment before it uploaded, word press is crap at keeping live, as soon as you move away from a window it cancels what you did πŸ™

    I haven’t found much real info on them, lots of fluff but no hard science I spent a good half hour trying to get tech data. They should reach out with shell construction, parts, insulation type, and fabrication points… I don’t endorse brands I endorse a way of building a hot tub. If you can prove you build a hot tub the way I like them built, and demonstrate a commitment to customers on the back end yer in.

    There are so many brands out there, they just do not come up much.

  536. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hey Pete.

    Coast is a mixed bag, the jetting on that tub is middle of the road, there are only 5 of the expensive hi flow therapy jets and a few mid flow and loads of the inexpensive low flow jets.

    I do not like the pressure side filtration, its old technology being recycled. 90% of the industry abandoned this tech 20 years ago to move over to suction side filtration.

    check out the M{legends or the therappol from these guys.

    Crocker Sales Co. Inc. (nh)
    672 Daniel Webster Highway, Merrimack, NH, 03054
    Phone: 603-423-9777
    hk@crockersales.com
    http://www.crockersales.com

  537. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    Bahama is ok except the control system, stick with Balboa… Def look at the Artesian over these guys.

  538. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    The Marquis is the only one that would make my short list

  539. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    In that mix it would be the Bullfrog I guess, but I really hate that ABS pedistal supported shells… Caldera is part of hot springs and not on my recommended list but sometimes in my old age, I get the name confused with Marquis, none of those brands are my tier one πŸ™‚

    Dude, I met this guy last week, he is opening up all over Texas and he is knocking it out of the park down there.

    He sells master.

    Primo Hot Tub & Swim Spas
    22315 Gosling Road, Spring , TX , 77389
    Phone: 281-466-2618
    vince.primo@yahoo.com
    primohottubsandswimspas.com

  540. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    Good attention to detail πŸ™‚

    You are correct the master pur must have the quiet flow, frankly even if you could get Master pur without it I would not bother… It’s a great system, as good or better than anything out there but none of the onboard systems are as good as the aftermarket stuff like aqua finesse… If you really want easy and clean just use Aqua finesse or Mineralux. Check out this article for a more in-depth look.

    I would not order any upgrades unless it was maybe the bottom pan… if you have a wet area it can be a good upgrade the tub out of the box standard is simply awesome…

  541. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    John helps me out in areas I don’t have anyone in he has been doing this forever and knows lots of people in the industry.

    I’m coming to Georgia for a month in march out at the Kayak training centre where they had the races for the Olympics.

    I have 15 15-year-olds to chaperone! Nightmare… I need my head examined πŸ™‚

    in Atlanta you have these guys doing master:

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    4305 Ne Expressway , Doraville, GA, 30340
    Phone: 770-939-8000
    hottub@bellsouth.net

    And these guys doing Artesian: (looks like they just might be service guys only…

    PREMIUM SPA SERVICE & MAINTENANCE
    3605 SANDY PLAINS RD 240-108
    Marietta, GA. 30066 US

    Telephone: 770-598-0559

  542. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Marquis, I like for now but if they don’t get in touch soon to verify what they are doing they are going to be on hold here. I need to be able to get into their factory and verify what they are doing and I just can’t get them to come to the table… always makes me worry, esp when every other manufacturer is begging me to endorse their lines.

  543. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Fak tough one dude, love the master stuff but a bad dealer can be an issue. but that price is nuts… it should be more than the artesian…

    The other side is why not just replace the whole control system for $800?

  544. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Of those three the tropical seas by a country mile… but get the full foam upgrade stay away from the radiant barrier systems…

  545. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    I have been bugging them to give me visibility of their process and this line and no one there answers any messages… meanwhile, the other brands I like are calling and giving me visibility of their factories and process

    The Vector 21 stuff is a big unknown for me. and frankly, if these meatheads don’t start giving me some visibility into their back end I’m not going to be recommending them for much longer, I can’t stand behind a factory that cant give us a better view of what they are doing.

    The price is certainly up there.

    I would normally not be a fan of the Hot Springs stuff, man I just learned that you cant take the sides off these things! on top of all the issues I already have with this brand this new info just reenforces my position… that’s crazy that alone makes me run away add the goofy parts list on to that and I just can’t even take the brands seriously… too much spent on the branding and not enough on the hot tub… but all that being said, a great dealer that has had the line for a long time will be aware of all the goofy shit and likely be able to make it a good experience. I always say for a lot of customers a great dealer with a mid-grade product is better than a crappy dealer with an awesome product…

    I would look at the Artesian or the master, I know the master dealer was just in Florida for the big master sing-along last week so likely that’s the delay.

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