User Posts: admin

I've been in this industry for so long and seen so many crazy things. After talking with so many people who buy the wrong tub or pay too much for a one I ...

The ratings you see on a Rating site reviews can be anything from anyone and most of the time if it is really bad review or a really good review it's ...

The Base of a hot tub is what it sits on and there are a lot of options from basic vapor barrier to ABS bottom pans and Fiberglass trays. Scare tactics like ...

Circulation pumps also called "Hush Pumps", and "Silent Flow" pumps are sold as an advantage and often as an upgrade on Hot Tubs. The Pitch is that they are ...

Every manufacturer has a miracle system that will make owning a hot tub easier, and healthier and safer. In this Video, we take a quick look at the ...

Great Hot Tubs or great marketing. You can't have them both and you can't relax in a brochure. There are 2 business models for Hot Tub manufacturers and ...

How Regular Hot Tub Sessions Relieve Arthritis Symptoms   Arthritis affects upwards of 350 million people worldwide, around 40 million of which are ...

There does not seem to have been any major modifications to the shell designs in decades including the old pressure filter housings and even floor suctions ...

USA Swimming, the National Governing Body for the sport of swimming in the United States announced the renewal of its partnership with Master Spas as an ...

It's no secret that recently a large number of millennials have been purchasing a lot more hot tubs than thy have in recent history. With this recent trend, ...

Browsing All Comments By: admin
  1. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Sorry Eric,

    This site is getting away from me, it used to be my personal rant space but now it’s something entirely different πŸ™‚

    I need staff to help but I haven’t figured out how to monetize it and not loose the authentic real approach! if I sell my soul for the money (offers every week into the lower mid six digit frame) then the site is nothing but another discussion forum or other bullshit site, sometimes I just need a day or two off πŸ™‚

    Hydropool and arctic I don’t really like for the similar reasons. They both do a few thing good and a bunch of stuff cheaply and spend a scad on the spin marketing, branding and BS. like Hrdropool has a good parts list but insulation and old school filtration systems and floor suctions, reflective insulation systems??? inexpensive solutions that are not good tech.

    Arctic is even worse, the cheapest parts you can buy, one of the cheapest insulation systems out there, no clamps on the plumbing lines and loads and loads of spin pitches and brand marketing.

    let me see what you have out there.

  2. Reply
    admin July 4, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    The Hybrid is a trademark gimmick that has the pumps outside the spa and is bad tech…

    what you are refering to is actually a better definition of “Hybrid” but usually called full foam with the pumps under the spa which is the best.

    The heat reclamation is pretty straight forward.

    The Venturis present on every spa and the ozone system always draw in air and inject that into the water so if the intakes are in the motor area the heat from the pumps gets injected directly into the water. it’s funny because the guys selling the cheap Perimeter insulation systems never talk about this because it really destroys their whole pitch… On one hand they claim that all the “trapped heat” is helping but they ignore the fact that the air is always being circulated when the pump is running which by the laws of physics means it is pumped out of the perimieter and into the tub and then out under the cover. Meanwhile, the outside cold air has to be drawn in to replace the cavity air… it’s why the whole pitch about the air space being an insulator is so non-science… in a thermopane window the intentionally remove the air and or fill it space with nothing or a captive agent with a high R value and then it is sealed so the air can not move… once the air can move beteen the zones it becomes a mover of heat, not an insulator….

  3. Reply
    admin January 18, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

  4. Reply
    admin October 26, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

  5. Reply
    admin October 21, 2016 at 2:49 am

    Visitor Rating: 4 Stars

  6. Reply
    admin October 21, 2016 at 1:52 am

    Visitor Rating: 1 Stars

  7. Reply
    admin September 8, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Hi

    I am not aware of the brand Dr. Wellness.

    Ask the questions…

    Are the joints glued and clamped?
    What brand name are the jets, pumps and electronic controls? (you want ideally Balboa and waterways and you want threaded jets)
    Is the shell supported underneath by props and supports? (if there are props and supports it usually indicated a thin shell although they will pitch it as a bonus)

  8. Reply
    admin September 26, 2018 at 10:14 am

    Yeah I really like the Twilight series but the nearest dealer to you is a ways away, there is, however, a lot of independant service guys in your area, both jeffs pools, and spa and Ken’s spa service are good. there is also an Artesian dealer not far called Tims they make a good therapy tub.

    try these guys they likely can help you as well…

    Tim’s Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We do not know the dealer but they carry Artesian which is a good reliable spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1065 Reading Rd, Mason, OH 45040
    http://www.timshottubstoremasonoh.com
    +1 513-777-3833
    4.8View in Google Maps

  9. Reply
    admin September 25, 2018 at 4:32 pm

    Yeah if you are handy its fixable for sure at 2k you cant go too far wrong

  10. Reply
    admin September 25, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    Hi Sara

    You can’t just dig a hole and pop it in πŸ™‚ you need to make a hole at least 3-4 feet bigger than the swim spa and it should be a concreted crypt with drainage in the bottom. It’s a big expensive job and you would want someone with experience in building foundations for houses or similar.

    the easier way to do this is is to pour a concrete pad on ground level, sit the swim spa on it and then deck up around the swimmer to make it look like its sunk.

    there is no limit to the size of a swim spa or hot tub that can be sunk its just critical that you leave access and have drainage either a floor drain or sump hole and pump to take care of any groundwater and over splash.

  11. Reply
    admin September 25, 2018 at 11:34 am

    Hi Tyler

    Both tubs are very similar in build quality but with the Beachcomber, first off stay away from the Hybrid option, Its old tech, and bad science you lose the waste heat from the motors and in a power outage you run a high risk of the equipment freezing up, also while both spas are very very similar in manufacturing quality and techniques beachcomber does not do anything above the mid-grade performance, the Marquis does to the mid-upper.

    Right down the road, you have Canadas largest seller of hot tubs… go see them, they do a great job!!!

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.6View in Google Maps

  12. Reply
    admin September 25, 2018 at 11:04 am

    Hi Narva

    For the lower back, I look for the big 10″ monster jets in the footwell with a diverter and a big open footwell I sit in the floor of mine and divert a whole 6 hp pump onto the two monster jets and let them pound my lower back. I also look for a good neck jet system preferably the 3″ mid-low jets and again a system with 2 big pumps and a diverter system so you can steal the whole pump for the main seat and monster jets.

    Champagne Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We can not vouch for the dealer but the Artesian brand is a good pick, I would not recommend the Sundance
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5710 Kearny Villa Rd c, San Diego, CA 92123
    http://www.champagnespas.com
    +1 858-571-9020
    4.6View in Google Maps

  13. Reply
    admin September 25, 2018 at 8:37 am

    Hi

    If we were talking hot tubs I would say sure, Artesian makes great hot tubs and they build good quality swim spas, but where performance and especially depth really make a massive difference in a swim spa there is simply no one in the residential market that can tough the H2X right now.

    The build is top of the line and the flow rates are easily 40% higher and the depth is a massive difference, the Tidal fit you are up to your stomach in water you are up to your chest in the H2x… go see these guys, its worth the trip.

    Phoenix Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    John Flanigan
    CEO Swim Spa International
    (423)-506-2913
    http://WWW.InternationalSwimSpa.Com
    Phoenix Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    1746 West Ruby Dr Suite 104
    Tempe, AZ 85284.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    Tempe, AZ 85284
    View in Google Maps

  14. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 12:36 pm

    Hey Chad, good brand much better than anything else around you.

  15. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    Hi Bonnie.

    warranty is rarely a reliable indication of quality, I know that sound wrong but consider…

    There is a cost to a year of warranty, some companies offer basic warranty and then you can buy extended years for usually around $200/year…

    Some companies just build it into the price! so what does it really tell you about the quality? nothing… it just means they built the extra 2 or 3 years into the price πŸ™‚

    a perfect example is brands like Master and Arytesian.. they offer 5 years on their top tubs and 1 or 2 on their entry level even though they are built the same with the same parts πŸ™‚

    I have not seen Bahama but I have seen enough Dynasty here from a dump and sale they did a few years back to say definitively that they were not well-built spas.

    On the other hand the South seas is built right.

  16. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    Hi Bobby

    I opened one up in January and I was less than impressed… they should not be expensive they typicaLLY lower mid-price pint and in my opinion that is where they should be.

    The shell was a thin cradel supported shell with wood props under the seats to keep it together, there were no clamps on the plumbing and the insulation would never pass code for a house in any cold state. in short its middle of the road. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

    The good news is you have two independent service guys there aaa and Brian’s so as long as you stick with a brand with good parts you can buy out of market because you dont have any great option locally πŸ™‚

  17. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 12:23 pm

    Hi Nicole

    AF can be used with either but some spas can not use bromine esp if they use Ion filtration.

    Bromine was big when we were dealing with high chem levels in the 80’s at 3-5ppm the chlorine was so harsh and bromine smelled milder and felt gentler… it was still a halogen-based oxidizer and bad for you but it felt better… it also was not as effective of a sanitizer and a lot more money!

    No that we can run systems at such low chem levels there is zero advantage to bromine unless you are sensitive to the chlorine.

    Frankly the only time i ever hear of Bromine anymore is from pool companies selling hot tubs because they have no idea about hot water chemistry πŸ™‚

  18. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    Hi Brian

    1. yes adjust hardness on any system.

    2. Absolutely on a swim spa goto the swim spa kit πŸ™‚

    3. Dichlor is milder but has to be in a granular form which makes it tiresome, trichlor is stronger and comes in a tablet so you can get a cheap dispenser load it up and not worry about it for weeks… easy and reliable… master does not recommend it because it breaches the black plastic and turns it grey.

    4. what explainer video πŸ™‚

  19. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 12:13 pm

    Hi Colleen

    So there is a big equity investment group that has bought up a lot of these brands, the group that owns D1 also owns jacuzzi, Sundance, Hydropool, and a few more. the biggest issue I have is these guys specialty is making profit and marketing… these brands tend to come out expensive for all the wrong reasons. I also am adamant about staying away from proprietary parts, for me it is a deal breaker read this for more information… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

  20. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 11:51 am

    Coast is on my pending good guy list πŸ™‚ flying out to see the factory next month and anticipate it will be a good spa, I have seen them over the years and they are good tubs, they have been hounded by issues of support from the factory end but a good dealer should be able to mitigate that.

  21. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 11:44 am

    Marquis is a solid brand and the price sounds good.

  22. Reply
    admin September 24, 2018 at 11:22 am

    I do not know what Bay tub is, i searched but found nothing.

  23. Reply
    admin September 21, 2018 at 8:52 am

    Hi Melinda

    I don’t but the guy down in west palm sells all over Fla, in Orlando you have loads of independant service guys so it should be easy to get service. There is not even a brand I recommend in the Orlando area πŸ™

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.5View in Google Maps

  24. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 2:46 pm

    Hi Nicole

    you can use any cleaner, I personally really like Ahhsome.

    here are some tips for Aquafinesse

    Tips for optimum Aquafinesse use
    Fill the tub and heat it to the desired temp
    Test the water.
    Balance the hardness to 150 (about Β½ bottle Cal Boost)
    Balance the water alkalinity level to 150.
    When alkalinity is adjusted, test and adjust the ph. to 7.
    Add Aquafinesse at recommended dosage (see bottle side).
    Fill dispenser with chlorine pucks and put in the spa.

    Weekly:
    Balance Alkalinity and PH as above
    Add Aquafinesse
    Rinse filters – order this Handy cleaning wand for $32.95
    Shock spa one cap after every 4-5 bodies. Also, shock with 6 caps if heavy bather load or if water is cloudy.
    Be sure to replace the chlorine puck when it dissolves. You should be burning 3 tablets a week.

    Periodic:
    Deep clean filters every 2-3 months with Aquafinesse filter cleaner tablets.

    Things to remember:
    The spas pumps should be running when balancing the water.
    Leave at least 5 minutes between all water tests to ensure the added elements have been fully mixed into the spa.

  25. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    The H2X unless you are a really efficent swimmer is a great spa, try swimming in it to see if its enough for you. then the endless and the top would be the Phelps.

    Frankly, the H2X is likely the best built best performance pump driven swimmer out there, and for most people more than they would ever need, the Phelps is really for people doing triathlons, iron man, kind of stuff or competitive swimmers.

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas

    Owner: Whitney Elliot
    Dealers # +1 757-490-7727
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    whitney@innovativespas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    155 S Rosemont Rd, Virginia Beach, VA 23452
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    +1 888-313-7727
    4.4View in Google Maps

  26. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 2:38 pm

    Hey Ernesto.

    I was at the cal spa factory this winter, good guys and they are building decent tubs but they didn’t make the cut for my tier one. the shells are not a self-supporting hull they are cradel supported, and on their good lines they have Balboa but their entry level stuff they have Waterways and that’s a newish system and until it has been out a while longer I’m not touching it. So on their high end if you order the full foam option then the Cal is better.

    Sundance was bought up by a big equity investment firm that owns jacuzzi, D1, Endless pool, Hydropool and what kills these brands for me is 2 things. First the proprietary parts. Read this https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/ The other thing is the price, these heavily branded and marketed tubs cost a lot more, not because of the quality of performance but because of the marketing budget…

    Hot Tubs Albuquerque sells Marquis. try them

  27. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 2:27 pm

    Hi Dial

    I’m not going to get into models because there is so much variance and a lot of it is just personal taste, the more expensive lines typically are better massage.

    both Artesian and Marquis are good builds.

    check these guys out, they probably have a local service guy

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

  28. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Hi Laurie

    The seals can be replaced if the motor is still quiet and running well, if it’s getting noisy then you can rebuild it at any number of local electric motor rebuild shops… just google it… It’s so hard to say if it’s worth rebuilding, depends on your luck, your financial position and whether you want a new tub.

    Artesian is a good tub for sure, you also have a Coast dealer they are pretty good

  29. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 2:19 pm

    Hi Brian

    We are in the middle of a development application that is going to make all this easy for you πŸ™‚ beta for the dealer end was a success and version 2.0 is coming soon, the customer end for water chemistry, and service help and tips will be out in about 2 months. πŸ™‚ here is the explainer video https://youtu.be/UcPJl33ULOI

    Brand of chems does not matter so much but make sure they are for hot tubs for the regular stuff I like the Spa Marvel brand Enzyme and the Aqua Finesse Mineral system

    Mid-Chem Level 3-4 month water changes

    Chlorine granules, (chem levels at around 2 ppm chlorine)

    3 x 1.5 kg Chlorine granules Dichlor (three tablespoons a week)
    1 x 3kg ph down
    3 x 2 kg Alka plus
    1 x 680g cal boost
    2 x 3kg Nonchlorine shock
    1 eco pure filter
    2 test kits

    Low chem 9-12 month between water changes Spa Marvel

    An enzyme system with near to drinking water levels of chlorine, (chem levels at around .5-1 ppm chlorine)

    2 x 2 kg Chlorine tabs TriChlor (three tabs a week)
    1 x 3kg ph down
    3 x 2 kg Alka plus
    1 x 680g cal boost
    2 x 3kg Non-chlorine shock
    1 eco pure filter
    2 test kits
    4 enzyme packs
    1 Floating dispenser

    Low chem 12-month between water changes – Aquafinesse European skin therapy system

    Mineral system with drinking water levels of chlorine, (chem levels at around .5-ppm chlorine)

    1 x 3kg ph down
    3 x 2 kg alka plus
    1 x 680g cal boost
    2 x 3kg Non chlorine shock
    1 eco pure filter
    2 test kits
    3 aqua finesse 3-4 month kits
    1 Floating dispenser

  30. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    Hey Sky

    That’s tons of money! again built well but you could have a tub built basically the same with way better performance for a lot less.

    Buying from Events in Seattle is fine, there are dozens of good independent guys there that can do service for you.

  31. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    Hi Sky

    Beachcomber is a good tub all in all. I do not like the Hybrid option, nor do I feel they build anything in the really high-end performance wise and they are expensive.

    That being said The non-hybrid option comes into my Tier 1 recommended criteria from a build standpoint. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/beachcomber/

  32. Reply
    admin September 20, 2018 at 8:41 am

    $5500 is about as low as you can get a well made hot tub for. Much less than that and you are generally getting a cheaply made hot tub.

  33. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 7:52 pm

    Round is hard to find man… Nordic makes one and they are pretty good, the insulation could be better but it is better than most…

    Anderson Pool Supply
    Nordic
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    301 W Etna Rd, Ottawa, IL 61350
    anderson-pools.com
    +1 815-434-7362
    4.6View in Google Maps

  34. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 7:49 pm

    go see the Nordic hot tubs, in your climate, they are perfect and should be close to your price point

    Paradise Valley Spas
    Jacuzzi, Sundance, Bullfrog, Nordic
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1872 Rollins Rd, Burlingame, CA 94010
    http://www.sfspas.com
    +1 650-651-7200
    5.0View in Google Maps

  35. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hi Sylvia

    Hot Tuns of Rockville carry Artesian, Hot Tubs & Pool Tables Outlet in Laurel carry marquis, both good brands but no idea of the dealer integrity and with both those brands they basically have zero factory support for end users so you really need a good dealer… my goto guy in the area is there guys, they carry my favorite brand and have great support.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.9View in Google Maps

  36. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    Of that group the Cal spa by a huge margin, its got all the right stuff. the Hot Springs is awesome at marketing as a good equity investment owned corporation should be πŸ™‚ But the proprietary parts are enough to make me run for the hills and you are paying a lot of money to help support that bloated marketing budget πŸ™‚ here is why I do not like proprietary parts: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    The American Whirlpool group build those, Vita, Maxx, the build quality on the one I saw was mid-grade at best, it had a cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing.

  37. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    Hi Christy

    I love the Twilight but the LSX has the same twilight main seat and loads of other types of seating, I used to not like the line because you could only get it with a circulation pump but now you can… I think TS is one of the best tubs for the money out there bu the LSX if you don’t mind spending the bread is lovely…

  38. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    yeah artesian is a great spa made right the Sundance is a great marketing company with goofy proprietary parts… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    go look at the TS240 here:

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.6View in Google Maps

  39. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    Hey James

    order it here and help me :https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

    I would not bother with the clean puck any more than once a year for normal circumstances.

    floating dispenser is the best, easiest, and the most reliable way to do it, and you just take it out when you use the spa… otherwise you are down to granular with adding every 3 days and if you miss it the water starts going off…

    Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

    1. Remove Filters
    2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
    3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
    4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
    5. Refill the tub

    Spa Marvel Startup

    1. Heat water to desired temp
    2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
    3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
    4. Use test strips to test water
    5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
    6. Run pumps for 5 min
    7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
    8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
    9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

    Weekly

    1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
    2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
    3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

    ** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

    **RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

    **EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

    **IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE

    ** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

    **IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.

  40. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:27 pm

    Tips for optimum Aquafinesse use

    Fill the tub and heat it to the desired temp
    Test the water.
    Balance the hardness to 150 (about Β½ bottle Cal Boost)
    Balance the water alkalinity level to 150.
    When alkalinity is adjusted, test and adjust the ph. to 7.
    Add Aquafinesse at recommended dosage (see bottle side).
    Fill dispenser with chlorine pucks and put in the spa.

    Weekly:
    Balance Alkalinity and PH as above
    Add Aquafinesse
    Rinse filters
    Shock spa with a non-chlorine shock one tablespoon after every 4-5 bodies. Also, shock with 6 tablespoons if there is a heavy bather load or if the water is cloudy.
    Be sure to replace the chlorine puck when it dissolves. You should be burning 3 tablets a week.

    Periodic:
    Deep clean filters every 2-3 months with Aquafinesse filter cleaner tablets.

    Things to remember:
    The spas pumps should be running when balancing the water.
    Leave at least 5 minutes between all water tests to ensure the added elements have been fully mixed into the spa.

  41. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    yeah, stick with the hot tub chemicals don’t go using baking soda and vinegar too hard to figure out strengths and therefore dosages. no idea why it’s not going down… keep hammering it until it drops at least into the ok range

  42. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:22 pm

    Hey Melinda

    You do not have to worry as much about the insulation as you would in a cold climate. its hard to find the small tubs on display because they are not a big seller πŸ™

  43. Reply
    admin September 18, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    Hey Kevin

    So of that group the Coast is first, the Beachcomber a close second for build quality wise but stay away from the Hybrid option its bad tech and performance wise it’s the lowest of the three review here: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/beachcomber/ . The bullfrog is ok except the thin cradle supported abs plastic shell and forget all the bullshit about efficient plumbing and no leaks… lol loads of marketing and spin around that tub but other than the shell its good review here: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/bullfrog/ . Arctic and Sundance I would not have on my short list, great marketing, and spin but nothing special and proprietary parts… read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

  44. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    hi sandy its ok if the alk dropped to 120 the reason for hammering it up to 180 is so that after it drops it’s still ok… every week work it back up and it will slowly rise.

  45. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    Nope. I would order it stock standard and use the spa marvel or Aquafinesse systems, you can order spa marvel here and help support the site! : https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

  46. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Hi John

    Definitely, the Island over the Vector mainly because the vector has all the weird parts that you can only get from them and if that line is not a success then the parts just might not be available at all for long.

    South Seas are not artesian, artesian lower end is called island spas or garden spas.

    ozonators are on all tubs and the reality is they do very little. A good ozone system needs a treated air supply and primary, secondary and tertiary absorption tanks and off-gas destruct systems and cost thousands, hot tub use $200 cheapo systems that really have little effect on water quality.

    Spa Marvel acts as a catalyst to speed up the process, it targets in-organics that chlorines have a hard time dealing with and breaks them down so that they are treated easily freeing up chlorine to tackle things it’s good at like bacteria and other organics. Here is a new video I just did about salt water hot tubs that talk about enzymes as well. https://youtu.be/q8KRKGZrMfE

  47. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Thanks, man!

    Uv, in my opinion, is the best of the upgrades but my argument is still the same, there is a better tech for less money. I like the three-pronged attack of an Enzyme to break down inorganics, a small amount of chlorine to deal with organics and the Ion filtration to kill bacteria on contact. we run our spas at .5ppm and go 9 -12 months between water changes (disclaimer I recommend you follow local state, federal or provincial guidelines for chemical levels)

    The ABS is an OK option but I would just put patio stones down… spreads the weight giving you better settling and provides insane protection for the bottom of the tub…

  48. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 10:47 am

    Go see these guys they carry master and have good service and care levels

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas

    Owner: Whitney Elliot
    Dealers # +1 757-490-7727
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    whitney@innovativespas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    155 S Rosemont Rd, Virginia Beach, VA 23452
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    +1 888-313-7727
    4.4View in Google Maps

  49. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 10:41 am

    man Roger I got almost nothing for you there πŸ™ the only brand we like in the area would be Marquis, a well-built line of tubs but zero factory direct support so it’s very dealer-centric if the dealer is good yer ok but if not yer kind of stuck πŸ™‚

    I don’t know these guys at all…

    B & M Pool, Spa & Patio
    Approved: Marquis
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6020 GA-21, Rincon, GA 31326
    http://www.bandmpools.com
    +1 912-826-1997
    4.0View in Google Maps

  50. Reply
    admin September 17, 2018 at 10:38 am

    Hi Michael

    I don’t have time for a discussion forum and there are good ones already and they are toxic, the information gets diluted, they just become a battleground for the marketing and bullshit and there are just too many hidden agendas. Although it might be fun to have a forum with a high level of security so it was clear who each person was and what their agenda would be πŸ™‚ have it exclusive more like a debate forum with only a dozen or so experts πŸ™‚

    Stay with the standard system, use the eco pure standard Ion filter with spa marvel or aquafitness. There is a link on the main page to buy Spa Marvell direct delivered for a good price and it helps support the site! here is a good video on water management systems including salt and enzymes- https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Um1Wu0uwDMDPq3eN6QMK0DnHjkOrM_j8

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-canada/

  51. Reply
    admin September 16, 2018 at 5:30 pm

    Hey Chris!

    Saskatoon! I sent 3 tubs there last year πŸ™‚

    Legends are good as long as it does not have a circ pump, the circ pumps are a pain in the ass.

    Coast and beachcomber are very similar. stay away from the Hybrid option on the Beachcomber and the beachcomber only does to the mid-scale on performance spas where the Coast hits up to the upper end.

  52. Reply
    admin September 16, 2018 at 9:17 am

    Yay!!! πŸ™‚

  53. Reply
    admin September 16, 2018 at 9:16 am

    Hi. The app back end for the spa shops is ready now. The customer side will be available on the site in a few months. Here is the intro video for retailers. https://drive.google.com/a/hottubuniverse.com/file/d/1j1mt1oTLZNpK-4TOpCdjF3Fu9X71nCyD/view?usp=drivesdk

    Badly built spas fail… often… I have customers who spent 10k on crap and 4 years later trade it in and get 3 or 4 k back after spending 2 or 3 k to repair it… there are a lot of little things we can argue about but you need at least the basic build quality.

    Salt water is old outdated tech here is a sneak peak at a new video about salt… needs edited but go on and have a gander. https://drive.google.com/a/hottubuniverse.com/file/d/1Um1Wu0uwDMDPq3eN6QMK0DnHjkOrM_j8/view?usp=drivesdk

  54. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 3:04 pm

    Hi Bill

    Either the Clarity or the Marquis will be well built efficient spas.

    The Marquis you need a good reliable dealer as there is no factory support for the end user, the Clarity has a super good customer hotline so if the dealer ends up being a dud you got a fallback. I also really like the new shell design on the clarity, loads of space…

  55. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    I carried them for a few years but man all the parts are goofy and super expensive, and the price they want for a liner pool made out of foam is wack… you can buy something like Getaway for the same money and its a proper spa with good east to source parts.

    Go see this guy he does the getaway spas bang for the buck one of my top entry level spas

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    3.1View in Google Maps

  56. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    Hi Adam

    that’s way too little info to help you man πŸ™‚ typically older tubs were better built this new world of planned obsolescence means most shit nowadays is designed to fail.

    look at a few things… the cover… should be light and in good shape its $600 to replace, the equipment should be clean and rust free, especially look at the heater terminals and the part between the motor and the pump where the shaft goes into the pump head, there should be no rust or white deposits.

    Make sure you see it running and test everything!!!

  57. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    The dealer for master is the biggest guy in Canada, he specializes in remote sales and sells spas coast to coast, the bastard sells 50 or 60 a year in my market even… But the reality is he is good at it, and if he is smart he will be running the new HTU service app soon which will make him even better πŸ™‚

    If you were here saying you were looking at a Coast or Artesian or Marquis I would say stay local but man those brands you are mentioning are not even in my Tier 2 group and miles away from the tier one stuff.

    Jacuzzi is now owned by a big equity investment group and the main issue I have is not only is it way expensive its expensive not because it’s great but because they spend so much money on branding and bullshit marketing! the proprietary parts alone would make me run for the hills. I’m the biggest service company in eastern Canada and we refuse to even work on jacuzzi and Arctic because of the parts… watch this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    The Arctic along with the parts nightmare also has a seriously underinsulated spa as does the Maxx… Neither of these inexpensive insulation systems would be anywhere near good enough for your house so they are not good enough for your hot tub… that Arctic comes in at around R-8 and the Maxx about the same, the minimum for a new home in your area is R-25! watch this for a better explanation, also neither of these spas clamp the plumbing lines and the Maxx is a cradle supported shell to boot!

    I grew up not far from you πŸ™‚ I got a very good trusted buddy that can help you hit griff up… griffryan@hotmail.com

  58. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:41 pm

    hard to say, but I have no dealers listed near you but there are 5 independent hot tub service companies in your area so I don’t think it will be an issue…

  59. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    Hi, Marcy, I hope that was a Typo and its supposed to be a Twilight… A Limelight is a hot springs spa and definitely not on my good guy list

  60. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:35 pm

    Hey Rick

    I’ll join you for that beer! Just cleared out all my pending requests for help last night to wake up to 15 more πŸ™

    Only the Marquis would I consider as a top spa, and some of that is speculation… They are a weird group, every other brand I like has made big efforts to contact me and get me out to see their factories and been open and clear and these guys don’t even return my calls and so far refuse to let me verify the build by seeing the production line!

    Im a toronto buy myslef πŸ™‚ and I got a really good buddy i know and trust that can absol;utely help you, Griff is a top guy griffryan@hotmail.com

  61. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    Totally right, Paul, they are a consumable… they tried different things but there is a weight issue… no real good solutions out there… 3-5 years is about it. I always try and concentrate on the quality of the outer vinyl, its the important part, then no matter what when you get it new open it up to take the cores out and go over every edge and seam with tuck tape! It will extend the life by 2 years if you take good care of it πŸ™‚ also get the 5″ with aluminum c channel and make sure it has a center baffle.

  62. Reply
    admin September 15, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    Hi JoAnn

    The PDC I really don’t know, so I had to sit through their factory video and there are definitely some concerns I have and I could not put this spa into my top recommended brands. The first this was even though they do a hand-rolled shell it looks like they only do a single layer and then adds pedestal supports to keep it from falling apart, these cradle supported shells are not nearly as good as a multilayer hand rolled self-supporting shell here is a video explainer on shells: https://youtu.be/_T9DY6am_E0

    They also use a Gecko pack and personally I won’t sell anything that does not have Balboa, they have some key patents that give them a massive technological advantage. The wood frame is well built but they absolutely should be using pressure treated for the bottom rail.

    The really big issue is the insulation… In PA the building code says R-20 or 25 is the minimum for a house insulation system you spa needs at least that and the styrofoam on that tub is about R-5 and the mylar around R3 for a total of R-8 this is just cheap and way underinsulated for a cold climate, this reflective foil technology was basically banned in any regulated industry in the 80’s and now is making a comeback in unregulated industries like the hot tub world… watch this video for an explainer on insulation. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

  63. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    Hi Robert

    The bullfrog, Viking, and Vita are not in the class of the Marquis or Twilight.

    the Marquis is much more reliant on a good dealer as there is little or no factory support for end users whereas master has a robust back-end customer care system. also when it comes to therapy massage the Twilight is pretty much in a class of its own…

  64. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 12:17 pm

    mike hit up my good buddy Griffin, he can help you, also coast is pretty good, they have some service issues it sounds like form the reviews and conversations with dealers but all in all build one of the better spas.

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  65. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 12:15 pm

    Hi Nick

    You wont find too many but in salt lake soakers sells artesian and there entry line garden spas is pretty plain jane and well built and insulated

  66. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 11:59 am

    Hi Janet

    I’m not a big fan of either for entirely different reasons, the strong spa because of the one I reviewed here: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/strong-spas/ The Hot Springs, because it is full of proprietary parts, see this for an explanation on why I do not like proprietary parts: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    go see Ted, he sells good stuff and does good service:

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    3.1View in Google Maps

  67. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 11:49 am

    I know… sometimes it’s like buying a used car πŸ™‚ the whole reason I started this site is that it drove me crazy the amount of utter bullshit and lies that float around in this totally unregulated industry.

  68. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 11:47 am

    I need to fix that πŸ™‚ I meant its a monster in terms of usable space, it has a great open seating and footwell area that is just awesome in a water environment πŸ™‚

    Its got good parts, good plumbing, and good insulation.

    the lighting looked goofy to me as well but its actually new diffuser lens and it seems to work pretty good, usually, you get these bright points of light these lenses make it a softer glow. I don’t love it or hate it

  69. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 11:20 am

    Hey Chad

    of those three the Bullfrog and there is a beachcomber dealer near you and they are good. The build quality is good on both, the only issue with the bullfrog is the but neither of those two brands does any really high-end therapy massage spas.

    I do have 2 good independent service guys registered with the site there I’m calling them to have a chat but if they are good which most of these independents are it means you can buy any tub with a good parts list and save a pile…

  70. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 10:55 am

    Yeah for sure, you can buy expanded foam kits at home depot for around $450, I also can get you the Icynene kits but they are more expensive

    Alternatively, you could get fiberglass pink and industrial garbage bags, take the batons and wrap them in the garbage bags like a present and seal the bags with tuck tape, then take the skirts off and pack them loosely around the shell try not to compress the fiber too much and remember to keep the front area around the motors open, if you get an overheating you might have to put vents in the skirt near the motors to get goo fresh air into the system.

  71. Reply
    admin September 14, 2018 at 10:35 am

    Hi Marcy

    The American Whirlpool is middle fo the road, its what most spas are built like but certainly not in my tier one group. I opened one up in January and the shell was a thinner cradle supported shell, the plumbing was not clamped and the insulation system would never meet approval in your state for a house so it’s not nearly good enough for your hot tub.

    If they are late on delivery you might have a chance on a refund but depends.. if I were you i would go at it not from the point that you have changed your mind but that the delay is unacceptable.

    if you manage to get it back go see these guys:

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  72. Reply
    admin September 13, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    Hi Kathleen

    that’s a great price. almost too good, is it a new model?

  73. Reply
    admin September 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    In the Jacksonville Fla area, there is only one brand locally I would even consider would be Splash Pools and Spas they sell Artesian which is a good brand, but I don’t know the dealer.

    These guys in West Palm do a big sale in Jacksonville every year and have a couple service guys down there so you might want to try them.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com

    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.5View in Google Maps

  74. Reply
    admin September 13, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    Hey, Tom

    Coast I like but they have been dogged by bad reviews specifically about back up support on the corporate end. jacuzzi, not so much I have a real issue with this proprietary parts game and these hot tub companies that have been bought out by equity investment firms tend to have a business model that centers on big brand campaigns and advertising and huge marketing budgets and that artificially increases the price of what are often mid-grade spas to the top end price… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

  75. Reply
    admin September 13, 2018 at 8:49 am

    Hey Darcy

    The bay area is a very special place, where there should be 100 dealers there are like 12, and where I would expect to have 5 independent service centers there are like 30!

    The dealer that are still there are almost exclusively the mid-grade heavily branded big margin overpriced spas that I don’t recommend… The reality is that area and a lot fo the west coast are very unique, The combination of insanely high property values and a lot of long-standing event sales, state fairs, and expos have killed off most of the brick and mortar locations.

    The good news is with so bloody many service guys down there you can safely buy from out of the market and be pretty much assured a good level of service.

    I have been sending tons of people to this guy in Sacremento, I know its a trip but worth it, the guy has great brands, prices, and service and he is one of those guys that takes good care of customers. There is a Marquis dealer called pacific coast but frankly, the brand is unconfirmed as they won’t let me in to inspect the factory and the dealer is an unknown, the problem with the brand is it has little or no factory level support for the end user so the local guy is important.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.6View in Google Maps

  76. Reply
    admin September 12, 2018 at 8:49 am

    Hi Chris! Great name by the way πŸ™‚

    The insulation, if you are in a cold climate, makes it a no go for me right away… That is bad tech in my opinion… Check out this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    For the rest, its hard to say, can’t see if the jet lines are clamped, can’t see if the shell is self-supporting… Sorry… But dude where you live you need thermal mass, the minimum for a house in your area is r-20 I think that radiant barrier is R3 plus maybe 2 or 3 for the little bit of foam πŸ™‚

    try these guys

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  77. Reply
    admin September 12, 2018 at 8:41 am

    Hi Jon

    The Legacy was a line Master did for years and still does in a limited release. the build is the same, although the 2018’s used the CMP jetting to trial it, the trial was good and they now use it on all lines.

    The warrant was 1 year but they might have bought an extension through Master or more likely through the dealer… Get the serial number and call master…

  78. Reply
    admin September 12, 2018 at 8:25 am

    I do!!!

    good tub, good insulation, mid-performance mid grade shell, good parts… read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/bullfrog/

  79. Reply
    admin September 12, 2018 at 8:24 am

    Hi Colleen

    you are right, its a messy shitty industry, commissioned sales guys that make more the more they get for the tub, cloudy hidden pricing and because it is unregulated loads and loads of spin, marketing, lies, and bullshit!!! It made me so damn angry I made this site and spend 4 hours a day helping people… I swear I need my head examined!

    first off there is a search bar at the top of the page! type in anything you want to know… try things like chemical, insulation, or the brand of spa you are looking at, jets, pumps, therapy, saltwater, etc πŸ™‚ that will help!

  80. Reply
    admin September 12, 2018 at 8:18 am

    Hi Ryan

    Don’t do salt… old tech that is finicky unreliable, corrosive to the decking and or concrete around the tub, and it only gets you to around 2ppm chlorine…

    Now I don’t advocate going below health and safety recommendations for your area but personally, I’m using Aquafinesse on one spa and Spa Marvel on one and I use them a lot and I’m staying around .5ppm chlorine on both with regular shocking.. beautiful… I like both the systems they both work great…

    Ok, I went away and shot a video for you… You get the first ever view of anyone πŸ™‚ Even before my editing guy gets to it and takes out the swear words and outtakes, ill email you a link but don’t share it!!! Ill also send you tip sheets for spa marvel and Aquafinesse. πŸ™‚

  81. Reply
    admin September 11, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    Lmfao! No idea!!!

    I meant to say that the Clarity is a monster in terms of space, its got a really wide open seating area, and tons of leg room, I love the open areas. when you think of being in a water environment where you are floating its not an advantage to have contoured seats because you are floating and don’t even notice the comfortable seating, having a lot of open space to move around, and a lot of leg room is great.

    i just looked at the video , good review πŸ™‚

    here is what I said in response:

    Hey, Rob good review! That MS30 pack was a nightmare! It was supposed to be an improvement because what Balboa did on that was extend the heater length by making it into a coil, it was supposed to be a never fail heater because on a longer core the heat per inch is less… great theory but it ended up being no better than a regular heater and the replacement was a lot more expensive, i think they only used it for a year on a limited range to trial it then went back to a standard pack… That shell is a self-supporting hand rolled shell, the frame does not support the shell like on cheaper shells it is only there to hold the skirt on. Notice the corrosion on the back of the pumps and the mold growing on the wood? that leak you found was an issue for a while and is why the paint is peeling there is evidence everywhere of a wet environment but I think its mold you are looking at not rot, and an ABS pan would have made that problem worse by trapping that moisture in. that damp environment also would have greatly accelerated the motor failure although yer totally right, there is too much foam in there, there is now a barrier between the motors and foam on the newer models.

    Another guys response was very good as well…

    Good observation. Which brand/model do you actually own? Doesn’t sound like this unit is your own.

    The foam work is better than most I have seen. I am a bit disappointed that Master doesn’t shield their pump motors and/or mechanical parts from being factory foam over-sprayed.

    Also, it appears the housing/internal bottom of the spa is actually open and exposed to the elements (e.g. ambient intrusion of the ground or floor/decking surface underneath). Is this actually good to allow the unit to breathe or a design flaw?

    Hot Tub Expert… I did some research….

    This model is Master Spa’s entry level. I also should point out the abs bottom is available as option. The abs bottom is design to keep uprising elements such as cold air, moisture, and bugs from getting in.

    I can’t say there’s anything wrong with painted 2x wood in the under carriage of this tub. White wood or pressure treated wood can withstand quite a bit when it comes to “rotting”. By the way, discoloration from water contact whether pressure treated or white is not the same as rot. And, discoloration doesn’t exactly mean the wood supportability is compromised.

    Having water leak is fixable like with anything. And if the leak is undetected, anything the water comes in contact can easily lead to discoloration.

    Lastly, Master Spa shells (the tub part you sit in) all have better shell production methods called hand-rolled. Sadly, this method of application can only be found in a handful of manufacturers on the market today.ο»Ώ

  82. Reply
    admin September 11, 2018 at 11:56 am

    Hi Mark

    The jacuzzi and Sundance are owned by the same equity investment group. the problem I have with these big corporate groups is they spend soo much on spin, branding, marketing, and crap that the tubs which in many cases are mid grade are priced like crazy super high end and they just are not… And the big issue I have with these two and the Caldera, hot springs arctics etc is the proprietary parts game, watch this video for an explanation. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    I would be extremely leery of the Costco tub, I have never ever seen a good quality tub at a mass merchant, they are what they are, cheap… and forget the reviews because Costco allows you to create an account to write a review with no membership attached to it anyone can go make 20 email accounts, write 20 reviews and influence a product and if you don’t think this happens think again… You can not trust any review that does not have a rigorous verification process and even those are only slightly better…

    Russo’s Pool & Spa In chicago carries marquis which would be ok or try these guys:

    Spas Factory Direct
    Emailspamanone@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3919 Grape Rd, Mishawaka, IN 46545
    +1 574-272-2160
    5.0View in Google Maps

  83. Reply
    admin September 11, 2018 at 11:24 am

    HI Satyen

    I opened up a Vita in January and there is no way I would recommend it to a customer. the one I saw looked great outside, but the shell was a cradle supported shell which usually indicates its not thick enough or hand rolled to support its own weight, the plumbing was just dip glued with no clamps and the insulation would never meet approval in a regulated industry like house building in any northern US state. It had a couple inches of blue max type batton insulation (about R-6) and a radiant barrier which is max R-3 so total about R-9, now I’m sure they are going to spout some bullshit about the copper foil being better than the silver foil but there is zero science behind this claim, all radiant barriers do is reflect radiant heat… Minimum for a house in upper half the US or Canada is r-20 to R-25… watch this video: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    Dynasty I will just say watch the video and make your own judgment, I can say the one I opened was poorly made. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/dynasty-spa/

    Viking very similar to the Vita, Plastic shell, no clamps on plumbing and outdated insulation systems.

    Jacuzzi the problem I have is the proprietary parts, this is happening a lot now, guys are going out an making parts that just fit their hot tubs so they can trap your business on the service and replacement parts forever, the reality is none of these guys doing proprietary parts are doing it to make better parts, you can’t beat the good OEM stuff like Balboa, they are just doing it for profits… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    I’m simple, I want 4 things at the minimum…. hand rolled fiberglass self-supporting shells with a vinyl ester resin core, good OEM parts, glued and clamped plumbing, and a good expensive high R-value easily removable insulation like Icynene…

    of that list, only the Clarity hits them all…

  84. Reply
    admin September 11, 2018 at 10:37 am

    Pricing is always tricky your area is expensive to do business in and the area is primarily supplied by local business so there is not the huge number of independents we see in places like LA which means buying from out of the market is not a great option for you.

    I would say you can get into an HL series or possibly a demo model of a twilight if you got really lucky.

    I do a lot with the guys on long Island, they simply do good work and take great care of customers, I have easily sent them 50 or 75 customers over the past 2 years and never heard anything but good feedback.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  85. Reply
    admin September 11, 2018 at 10:33 am

    Hi John

    I had to do some digging around on this one, haven’t really come across Thermospas too much πŸ™‚

    First off the shell designs made me smile, there are right out of the 80’s all the sharp angles and terrible use of space πŸ™‚ Water environments are all about space, and the footwells on most of the models make them no good for anything over 2 or 3 people.

    Jetting wise again this is right out fo the 80’s all the cheap low flow jets so you can quote mad numbers of jets! more is better!!!! and lots of little pumps, again to make it sound impressive. the reality is fewer pumps are better, and for massage the big expensive hi flow therapy jets are better than the little low flow bullet jets… hell 118 $10 jets is just over a grand where 40 of the high flow therapy jets with a big foot jet system and diverters could be $2k…

    Finally, the insulation, forget it these radiant barriers were basically banned in the 80’s in regulated industries, now in this unregulated industry they are the miracle insulator… laughable cheap outdated… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    local service can be great or crap, in some areas like LA where I have 30 independent service guys registered I would go ahead with an out of area purchase built in your area I have like 1…

  86. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    Hi Heather!

    swim spas! they are year-round pools they are not cheap but if ya want a pool for all year that’s the answer… if the price tag is too high look for a 94″ tub with a big open footwell like the Precision seven by Clarity spas.

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas

    Owner: Whitney Elliot
    Dealers # +1 757-490-7727
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    whitney@innovativespas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    155 S Rosemont Rd, Virginia Beach, VA 23452
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    +1 888-313-7727
    4.4View in Google Maps

  87. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    Hi Lise

    So Jacuzzi is one of the big corporate brands owned by equity investment groups… loads of fancy branding, marketing, tons spent on advertising and in my opinion a mid-grade spa. The same group owns, jacuzzi, Dimension one, Endless pool, Hydropool, and Sundance that I know of and again, in my opinion, there are way better options for your money. Part of this issue I have with these groups is they are all about profits and one of the things they all do is get goofy parts made that are not industry standard so that they only fit their hot tubs so they can own your ass for life on parts replacement… Great corporate profit strategy but a shitty situation for the end user. see this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    Costco and frankly all mass merchants carry mid grade to low-end spas, this is a video I did of an evolution spa… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/strong-spas/

    go see these guys

    Krevco Swimming Pools & Hot Tubs
    Approved: Master, Twilight, Clarity, MP Legend, Healthy Living, Plug and Play
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    700 Berry St, Winnipeg, MB R3H 0S6
    http://www.krevco.com
    +1 204-786-6957
    3.4View in Google Maps

  88. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 12:31 pm

    Hi Kathlene

    Pricing is tricky… depends a lot on the area, the cost fo doing business in a region can vary dramatically, also the distance from the factory.

    I’ll see what i can dig up and get back to you

  89. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 10:57 am

    Hey Sandy

    Use alkalinity increaser it cheaper… the trick is at the beginning of the cycle you really need to pound the shit out fo the alkalinity, its key sometimes it can take a KG to get there but once you do it the first time I find I only need a tiny bit every week and the ph stay perfect. I use chlorine because of its a lot less expensive. back when we were running 3-5ppm of halogen oxidizers then bromine was good because it did not smell as harsh but with the low levels you are running forget it…

  90. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 10:51 am

    Hi Jason

    I’m personally not a big fan of the Hot Springs, I’m really anti proprietary parts, and they spend so much on the branding and marketing that the tub ends up costing way more than better-built spas using good OEM parts and frankly better performing and quality… here is why I’m not a fan of these guys who make goofy parts to just fit their spas: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    The Bullfrog would be a better tub, the only thing I don’t like is the ABS plastic shell. All the rage in the 80’s these shells were supposed to be cheaper and stronger but the reality is there were a lot of issues and most of the industry moved away from them, now the guys that do them try and re-enforce them with pedestals to keep them from failing but man you really can’t beat a good hand rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell…

    The Clarity is a new design and I love the open seating and massive footwell… the problem with ho tubs is always there are more seats than legroom and the clarity is just a parts monster. plus water environments are not about contoured seating and all that crap, you are floating and don’t notice that stuff, water environments are all about space… Plus its got good parts, glued and clamped plumbing and a hand-rolled self-supporting shell.

  91. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 10:43 am

    Good price on the 748L

    I would not touch vector, I really don’t like the whole thing… they basically made special parts that just fit that tub, gave them different names to pretend they were something different, its all spin and the reality is having a spa with goofy parts in never good for the end user… watch this video… also if that line flops then it might be a nightmare down the road to get parts. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

  92. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 10:38 am

    Hi Cyndi

    There are a few really well-built swim spas, Artesian, Coast, H2x, Phelps.

    Then there are a few really crazy good performing swim spas for athletes, Phelps, Endless, H2X

    Then there are deep swim spas…

    I think the best overall for anything less than national team high-end competitive athletes is the H2X I race kayaks, train 5 days a week and just finished racing the Canadian nationals so I’m pretty fit for a 50-year-old and I swim 3 times a week in a trainer 15 deep and only run it at around 60% of max current, I also like to relax and drink a beer or two and entertain and the depth on that swimmer makes it just such a more enjoyable environment. they are built right, performance wise the patented VIP injector plate technology increased their flow rates by almost 40%, and they are well insulated.

    Check out these guys, they are a bit away from you but I know they have service in your area because we have sent them a pile of people, and they just do a great job.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

  93. Reply
    admin September 10, 2018 at 8:27 am

    Hi Belinda

    Sorry for the delayed response.

    Build quality wise the Artesian seem to be consistent through the lines as is the Clarity.

    I have seen a Clarity with the new diffuser lenses and they look great, instead of getting a pin of light these just spread out a wash of light and it also has an underwater big led.

  94. Reply
    admin September 8, 2018 at 7:26 pm

    No Tom I’m consistent saying that Marquis on paper is a great Spa I’m also consistent in saying they give me zero visibility. It always worries me when somebody won’t let me into their Factory to verify what they’re doing. All the other brands including the master that I recommended to you and the Artesian and Coast have all invited me to their factories flew me down let me see everything top to bottom so I have visibility I can therefore say with certainty that they are doing what they say.

    I also can never get a return call from.them even when we pretend to be a customer needing help,

    So while build quality wise on paper they are a great tub there are two many unknowns. The local dealer I sent you to I know, and the brand they sell I have seen first hand at the factory level…

  95. Reply
    admin September 8, 2018 at 7:22 pm

    Man tough call I’m a bug fan of the twilight but the LSX has the same main seat and foot jets and more of everything. I have to admit I like the 8 footers but it’s because I like to sit in the footwell and jet the monster jets on my back πŸ™‚

    Either way yer gonna have a great tub. But also thinking of this… we get caught up in this world of immediate desire fullfillment is 6-8 weeks really that long?

  96. Reply
    admin September 7, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    Great analogy. the Nordic is better built with better parts and inexpensive, the HS spends scads on branding and marketing, uses a lot of goofy proprietary parts which I really do not like and in my opinion is a mid-grade spa with a big price tag and a fancy marketing bundle πŸ™‚

  97. Reply
    admin September 7, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    koko beach carries Coast, they are not 100% into my recommended brand yet until we do the factory review later this month. I also have a super dealer down in Calgary that I know sells a lot to that market, there are a couple good service guys in that area. Try these guys:

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.5View in Google Maps
    51.06593, -113.99732

  98. Reply
    admin September 7, 2018 at 10:17 am

    HI Brian

    So I really like either the Aquafinesse or the spa marvel for hot tubs but for swim spas, it’s the Aquafiness, I don’t even think spa marvel does swim spa kits yet.

    I have great deals on the Aquafinesse year kit delivered right here, I’m trying to get a deal to supply Aquafinesse direct but not finalized it yet.

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

  99. Reply
    admin September 7, 2018 at 10:08 am

    Hi Austin

    I would try the guys down at Black Pine Hot Tubs in Edmonds look at the artisans, they are well built.

    There is also a load f good independent guys in and around the Seattle area doing service I think you must have some big traveling road shows up there because the retailers are dying and being replaced with these service companies. it does open it up for you, when you have this many indepenadt around you can buy anything with a good parts list and be covered.

  100. Reply
    admin September 7, 2018 at 9:33 am

    Hi Andrew.

    Thanks, man It’s funny some people infer that I pitch master as one of the top ones because I carry it the reality is I carry it because of its one of the top ones πŸ™‚ as the biggest dealer of any brand in eastern Canada I can have any line I want. I chose this line because of the range of products all built right and backed up.

  101. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    Hi Norm

    I like both from a build standpoint and they are fairly similar from a performance standpoint. both have a handful of the big expensive hi flow therapy massage jets and lots of the regular jets. If you goto the island elite line from Artesian you get the big master blasters that are great for feet legs, glutes lower back etc.

    If you ten goto a twilight you start to get lots more of the good hi flow jets and a super good neck jet system.

    In Seattle most of the dealers are gone, that area is hammered by big event sales, state fairs and out of state purchases I can always tell these areas right away because there are so few retailers and so very many independent service companies, I literally have 5 hot tub service companies there listed with the site πŸ™‚

  102. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 4:08 pm

    Hi John

    They went over to CMP jets this year and initially I was concerned but I did some research and several of the brands is like moved to them over the years and they seem to be performing well. I have a new one here as I rotate my unit every 6 months or so cause I’m in the industry and its solid, we have very little trouble with them.

  103. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Don’t know the dealer and the brand on paper is the right stuff but they won’t let me go through the factory so that always makes me wonder… everyone else flew us down let us go through everything to verify build I can’t even get these guys to return calls so if they build like they say then yeah but make sure the dealer is solid because there seems to be very little factory level support.

    Try these guys they are awesome I send literally dozens of customers to them and they rock.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  104. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    Aww sorry, dude and no the Vita is nowhere near the same build quality, I opened one up in March and it was a cradle supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing and a little batton insulation with radiant barrier… nowhere near to code in your area for a house so it’s not good enough for your hot tub… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

  105. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 3:50 pm

    Hi Mark!

    When looking at anything outside of 50 miles or so you really need to see what resources in your are for repair you have. I got a guy listed with us there called Spa Pool Equipment & Repair Yakima, WA 98902 +1 509-469-0552.

    As long as you stick with a brand that uses a good standard parts list you should be fine. and yes $12k is way over the top…

  106. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    Leisure Works LLC
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    41430 Grand River Avenue a, Novi, MI 48375
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 248-348-7727
    4.8View in Google Maps

  107. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    Yep, they build solid spas bottom to top. really just performance changes

  108. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    Both are good from a build quality and on the mid-end lines they are pretty similar for performance but if you are going to the higher ends the master esp the twilight series kicks its ass. Also, Marquis is terrible for communication, we called and called and never get an answer back and the master has a seriously robust customer care system… so on the Marquis you are uber dealer dependant on the masters you have the dealer then a great back-end support system.

  109. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Good parts, it uses balboa control and heating system, but the radiant barrier insulation is pants… Watch this video this might be ok in Florida but there is no way in hell a cheap insulation system like this should be bought or sold in a cold climate… Watch this video… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

    try these guys:

    Spa & Pool Center
    Status: Unverified

    The dealer is an unknown but the brand Artesian is solid.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8403 W Fairview Ave, Boise, ID 83704
    spaandpoolcenter.com
    +1 208-376-1514
    4.7View in Google Maps

  110. Reply
    admin September 6, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Hi Kevin

    All in all I like Coast there are a lot of bad reviews about backup support but on paper the build is good, we are going down there to see the factory this month.

    The filter system is a bit of a gimmick it’s not, in my opinion, a pro, in fact, it’s a bit of a negative.

    It is an older filter system and the β€œspin” is great!! People love the sound of a β€œpressure filter” housing, heck it’s filtered under pressure! It must be good! The reality is almost all of the industry has moved away from this filtration system and moved on to β€œsuction side” filtration.

    There is one big difference between the two systems: On older β€œpressure filter” systems the water is filtered on the pressure side of the pump and on suction side filtration it is filtered on the suction side of the pump! That means that on this older pressure filter system the water goes through the pumps and through the equipment before it gets filtered!!! The accumulation of debris in the pumps and in the heater elements can cause damage and it just makes sense to filter that water prior to it going through the equipment That is exactly why 95% of the industry abandoned these old pressure side filters decades ago and moved to suction side filtration, it filters the exact same amount of water but it does it before the debris goes through the heater and the pump.

    I love the scaremongering suggesting that the debris will float back into the tub πŸ™‚ the reality is all spas filter well and the bigger size offer little or no real advantage, all filters do is remove debris from the water, its the water purification that sanitizes the water not the filters and all spas even the crappiest cheapest ones effectively remove all the debris πŸ™‚

    hit my buddy Griffin up he does spas in your area, I know him well and he is awesome πŸ™‚

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  111. Reply
    admin September 5, 2018 at 9:55 am

    3k is a little rich for a 14-year-old tub… but if its working and has a good cover and in top shape meh…

    $10,500 is a solid price.

  112. Reply
    admin September 5, 2018 at 9:20 am

    Hi Kyle

    It really depends on the resources on the ground in the area. And some areas where a lot of tubs are bought from out of Market there’s a lot of independent service guys in this could be a good resource for you.have a conversation with the retailer ask him if he has independent service on the ground in your area. If he does ask for the details and contact them.

    In a lot of areas nobody buys from retailers any more and in some areas, you need to buy from a retailer but it is really area dependent.

  113. Reply
    admin September 5, 2018 at 9:11 am

    Hi Paul

    Both my It and Office manager are from the rock πŸ™‚

    I’ll send you some info through

  114. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 4:34 pm

    Hi guys.

    Swim spas and more like hot tubs then they are like pools especially from a construction standpoint water chemistry standpoint insulation standpoint excetera.

    Go to the search part on the site and search hydropool there is review of their Spa (same for the swim spas) the biggest problem I have with the line is the mylar insulation and again for more information on this search insulation systems there is a video I’ve recently put up about insulation. reflective barriers are not good at retaining Heat.

    The Michael Phelps is super expensive and it’s overkill for most people. It’s really a training line for competitive swimmers or Uber athletes. I would look at the H2X line deep well built and they flow a lot of water. Most swimmers you are up to your belly button in water and the flow rates are abysmal.

    Check out premium wholesale Home & Leisure in Kitchener they’re the biggest dealer in Canada of any brand and they’ve got service all over the place I know these guys to do a good job

  115. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    Definitely Artesian over those three brands and I would be a little leery about the Costco stuff Mass Merchants typically don’t do a great job at these tricky products.

    Check out Above & Beyond in Kansas City

    203 Armour Rd, North Kansas City, MO 64116, USA

  116. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 2:20 pm

    Hi Lori

    Not aware of the Granville and not a fan of the Hydropool, (review here https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/) they use mylar insulation for one, that shit was basically banned in the housing industry in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulator in this unregulated industry πŸ™‚ watch this video. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

  117. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    Hi Karen

    patio stones are fine, a concrete base is fine but make sure it is level usually when they do concrete they do it on an angle so the water runs off it πŸ™‚

    Funny I was down, right near you for a month in Gainsville at the paddling facility there πŸ™‚

    I went out and saw these guys, they are great check them out, they sell the master spas which are great they also sell Maxx and vita which I am not a big fan of…

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    4.9View in Google Maps

  118. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    Hi Nancy

    I like the Aquafinesse and the Spa Marvel systems, I was die-hard AF but to be honest we have sold a ton of Spa Marvel over the past 2 years and it works great and its a lot less expensive, I find it keeps your water balance and we run our tubs here at about a half a part per million of chlorine, now the health system says you need way higher levels and me always advise adhering to your local codes πŸ™‚

    we have a great deal on it here: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-canada/

  119. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    yeah for sure hit up Jaquiline she rocks.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.

    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774

  120. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    Hi Pete

    we had a pile of them in the local market and they were okish except the shells, we had 12 shell failures, they were using a spray on rigidizer and they just had a lot of issues, they also used to put a particle board base under it and then a 1×1 frame, we saw a lot of them sagging and really starting to fall apart. Now in all fairness, it was a few years ago and I have not seen one recently but I would not expect there is any great change, it was always a middle of the road tub.

    try these girls, they rock…

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004

  121. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    Hi Phoebe.

    Try these guys I would buy Nordic they are the best in the simple round tubs.

    The Soakhouse
    #102 – 2520 Bowen Road Nanaimo, BC V9T 3L3
    250-758-7155

  122. Reply
    chris wheatley September 4, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    Seattle area is very different, the whole west coast is leading a change in how tubs are bought and sold. very few retailers left and loads and loads of service companies taking their places.

    I think its a combination of expensive retail space, and there is a really aggressive marketing group that sells a high percentage of the spas on the west coast through event sales.

    I can’t recommend any of those brands, in fact, there are no great brands in that area, just the big fancy marketing ones, and the lower end ones, I love that sweet spot right in the middle, where they build great spas and don’t go too overboard on brand awareness bullshit.

    try these guys

    Black Pine Hot Tubs, Swim Spas, Saunas, Billiards
    Status : Unverified

    We stand behind Artesian, island spa, South Spa, Garden Spa and Platinum Elite.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7711 Lake Ballinger Way, Edmonds, WA 98026
    blackpinespas.com
    +1 425-771-5774
    4.1View in Google Maps

  123. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 12:17 pm

    Yeah for sure but also get a good filter for the end of your garden hose. It will tackle metals and minerals… I like the x-10. Hot scott up he can get you one. Scott@hottububuniversity.com

  124. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    The biggest issue I have with almost all of the Watkins products is these big equity investment owned corporate groups tend to spend too much on the brand awareness, marketing, and advertising, and not enough oh the actual product. They also use propritary parts which again is a great corporate profit model but rarely a great scenario for the end user… check this explanation out….

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

  125. Reply
    chris wheatley September 4, 2018 at 11:56 am

    So the Bahamas Spas built by Dynasty let’s go to the search bar and search Dynasty review. I got to see the one that I tore apart was a mess.

    I was at the Artesian Factory in January you guys are doing the right stuff right with the right parts right insulation systems. The Marquis is also built the same as the Artesian it should be comparable in price.

    As for dealer recommendations try David’s Home Entertainment down in Waynesville they rock and carry a good line

  126. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 11:52 am

    Someone comes to the chemical maintenance of a hot tub I’m not a big fan of any of the hot tub companies upgraded systems.

    It’s not that they’re bad Zion system is decent and the UV system is decent and yes they would stack.

    There are better aftermarket products that are less expensive do a better job than either of those systems your water last longer is lower chemical healthier and easier to manage.

    I’m a big fan of two different products aquafinesse or Spa Marvel and I got to say I used to sell more aquafinesse than Spa Marvel and now that’s reversing. Spa marble is an enzyme product and it really got the mix right on this. It keeps the water super easy to manage keeps the pH very stable I get nine months to a year out of the water and I’m running it at boat a half a part per million of chlorine in my tubs and that’s drinking water levels

    I really endorse this product and I’m not getting paid to do so. I endorse it because it works. Now you can even buy it on my site which helps you support my sight big πŸ™‚

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

  127. Reply
    admin September 4, 2018 at 10:51 am

    Hi Martin

    Sorry for the late response I was away for the week πŸ™‚

    I typically don’t buy any add on options, certainly not any of the chemical reduction upgrades, the aftermarket stuff like the Spa Marvel Enzyme or Aquafinesse is, in my opinion, offers the the lowest chemical levels, easiest to manage water as well as longest lasting and least expensive… and you can order the spa marvel direct from my site now at the guaranteed lowest price. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

    As for size, the biggest thing is the footwell size increases, which is key if you are tall or want a lot of people in it… tubs have 5 or 6 seats but unless you have friends with no legs the footwell fills up faster than the seats πŸ™‚

  128. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 8:42 am

    Hey Michael

    dude the factory is in fort Wayne… i would hit them up on tier 800 number ask about seconds or blems, they usually will have a local rep handling sales for them direct in their local market or at least can put you in touch with someone. πŸ™‚

    Customer Service
    800-860-7727
    customerservice@masterspas.com

    Sales
    sales@masterspas.com

  129. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 8:38 am

    nice happy hot tubbing and hit up my order page for the spa marvel system we sell it at a good price and it helps us support the site and stay out of the pockets of the manufacturers. or if you go Aqua finesse hit me up we can get you great deals and give you great advice

  130. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 8:35 am

    Hi Shane

    Why I like and use a twilight is the jetting, loads of high flow jets and diverters to steal all the water for my chair only πŸ™‚

    I specifically love the 3.5″ neck jets, they move enough water to really do good neck massage especially if they are just out of the water, they splash a lot but I don’t care, they really loosen up my neck. I then love the big 10″ floor jets, I sit down there for my lower back, glutes, calves, thighs, feet.

    From a build standpoint, they all are good spas, the artesian Island elite is the closest but again mostly small low flow jets and no real neck system but at least it has the floor jets… Twilight is a unique spa, I keep trying to find a comparable performance spa and the only one I have ever found is the Dynasty but I tore one apart and the build quality was just not up to spec.

  131. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 8:27 am

    Yeah i had a look at a couple at event sales, they opened them up and I had a look inside, didn’t look like anything was much different from this one.

    Don’t get me wrong these guys are not building terrible spas, just, in my opinion, there are companies whose strategy is marketing, and branding and they spend a lot on that and the spas are really expensive and often times its not a reflection of the build quality as much as its a reflection of the cost of the branding campaigns. Then there are brands that build to a really high standard and don’t blow so much cash on the branding end and build great tubs…

    one is a great corporate profit model but not as good for the end user and one is a good business model and is better for the end user.

    When I evaluate a spa line I ignore the branding I look at the cost to build the spa… Basically, how much money went into the actual tub. When I see a great shell like Arctic builds I go yay! good stuff. When I see no clamps on the plumbing, a small amount spent on insulation and proprietary parts I go Yuck!

    My goal isn’t to endorse brands but more to endorse a way of building spas that I know from 30 years is sustainable and good for the end user, frankly most brands fall into the category of doing one or two things great and 2 or 3 things cheaply… very few guys do all the expensive things…

  132. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 8:16 am

    Hey Andrew.

    I think micro silk is a bit gimmicky I asked them for some hard science on it and got a lot of mumbo-jumbo about little bubbles but all spas make little bubbles and I could not find any hard science to support their claims. Build wise they are good, but again they won’t let me near their factory to verify anything… strange…

    Coast is funny…

    On paper they do everything right, they are ISO 9000 and I’m going this month to tour the factory but you are right they are plagued by bad reviews, I intend to ask them about it and frankly, I think its just bad back-end management of their service and or parts department but again its all supposition, ill see later this month.

  133. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 8:08 am

    Hi Christine

    Never been a big fan, and less now that they threatened to sue me πŸ™‚ lol not that I care, they are just trying to bully scare me, I always stay very carefully in the lines of reality. here is the video they are threatening to sue me over πŸ™‚ https://www.hottubuniversity.com/arctic-spa/

    In general, I like the shell, its hand-rolled self-supporting with a vinyl ester resin core. but that’s all I can say I’m impressed with except of course their brochure, advertising, and marketing!!! that’s amazing!!!

    The control and heating system are mostly proprietary and here is why I don’t like that option: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    The insulation system is about 2″ of closed cell foam nowhere near what the building code would be in a cold climate, I like to see a lot more R-value and a lot less talk about magic fairies that make free heat πŸ™‚ here is an explainer of insulation systems. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    I also like to see clamps on the plumbing lines, and the plumbing to be supported, it seriously reduces leaks and that saves you a ton down the road.

    im just down the road from you at Sherbrooke at the Canadian National sprint kayak races πŸ™‚

    check out the Coast line here:

    Coast – CK Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    214 Rue Poirier, Saint-Eustache, QC J7R 6B1
    http://www.ckspas.com
    +1 514-701-4950
    4.2View in Google Maps

  134. Reply
    admin August 31, 2018 at 7:50 am

    Hi

    Man, I don’t have them listed, But the good thing with Master is there is an 800 number for end users with a robust backup support service. or hit me up if you ever have anything you need from any of the 5 brands I know and trust.

    And thanks for the nugget!! been trying to figure out the Bahamas spas!

  135. Reply
    admin August 30, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    Hi Mike

    The Marquis of that lot for sure and stay away from salt its old tech… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/chemical-free-hot-tubs/

    also stay away from the vector, goofy parts, and no real innovation just new words for the parts πŸ™‚ and if the line flops you might be screwed trying to find parts later

  136. Reply
    admin August 30, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    Man, that is a lot of money for a tub that really only has 7 of the expensive hi flow therapy massage jets. even the foot jets are only the 5″ ones I really prefer the big high flow 10″ jets like they have on their island elite spas or the twilights or LSX spas, these 5″ jets just don’t flow enough water for feet, glutes, thighs and lower back, I like to get down into the footwell and uses those monsters for massage… And again the neck jet system is pants, don’t get me wrong I love the build but first of the price is wack and second, if you are looking for performance this isn’t in my top group for massage.

    go see the twilight or lsx before you buy, 3.5″ high flow neck jets, and twin 10″ floor jets with the ability to put a whole 6hp pump on them… if you want performance they are built the same but the jetting is way better hell the twilight has like 20 of the hi flow jets twin flow diverters to power them up and the monsters and should be the same or less. the LSX is more like the dove but dude more motors do not make a better performance spa… read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/small-pumps-large-pumps/

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    3.7View in Google Maps

  137. Reply
    admin August 30, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    Man I don’t, there are not a lot of retailers left the west coast high property values in Canada and the US coupled with a lot fo event type sales, fairs and hoe shows have killed most of the retailers, most of the spas out there are being bought from these out fo town events the overhead is a lot lower making for attractive retail prices.

    The other thing is that as a result of a decade of this trend there are a lot of independent service companies out there so the reality is the scale has tipped and you can get as good or better service on with these companies that specialize in just service than you can with many local retailers. in fact, a lot fo the local retailers now use these same independents for their service πŸ™‚

    If local retail is your preference then Comox in Courtney sells artesian they are good, or Calais spas in Nanaimo sells coast again a good brand.

    I will send you some options on email as well.

  138. Reply
    admin August 29, 2018 at 11:49 am

    I really like the big 10-12″ monster jets for lower back, thighs, feet, glutes, hips, and calves but you need to be able to divert a whole big [ump to them to really get the effect, man I sit if the footwell and just let them hammer away at my lower body and they are insanely good.

  139. Reply
    admin August 29, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Hi Kathy

    its comes standard with ozone, and I would not upgrade it to the UV system, order in the enzyme system its easier and lower chem and cheaper… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

    patio stone base is fine a poured concrete base is overkill

  140. Reply
    admin August 29, 2018 at 11:38 am

    Meh, the Beachcomber is a much better build but the performance on them is lackluster. The Maxx I opened up was seriously down market, cradle supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing and an insulation system with 2″ of batton and reflective foil πŸ™‚ I would not take it seriously… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

    Bills electric does service on hot tubs so as long as you stay with good parts you should be good to buy in from the city at a better price.

    try these guys

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps
    51.06593, -113.99732

  141. Reply
    admin August 29, 2018 at 11:31 am

    No idea, but Jacuzzi is owned by the same company as Sundance and both use proprietary parts which would be enough to make me run for the hills. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    try these guys

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

  142. Reply
    admin August 29, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Performance wise it is going to be middle of the road, like most tubs it only has a few of the expensive hi flow therapy massage jets and lots of the inexpensive smaller jets, the neck jets system is pretty much non-existant you really need the mid flow jets at least for big muscle masses like shoulders. Again the “foot jets” are 5″ hi flows but for really tough bits i like to see a big 10″ monster down there with a diverter so you can put a whole pump to it, then you can really do feet, legs and even lower back by sitting in the footwell. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    build wise its got all goofy proprietary parts which makes it a no go for me, Jacuzzi was bought by corporate investors, great marketing, spin, brand awareness, but in my opinion middle of the road on what counts.

    try these guys

    Leisure Works, LLC
    leisureworksaa@aol.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5204 Jackson Rd b, Ann Arbor, MI 48103
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 734-668-7665
    4.3View in Google Maps

  143. Reply
    admin August 29, 2018 at 11:11 am

    Hi So if you mean therapy massage then that’s a big difference from hydrotherapy, all hot tubs will give you hydrotherapy but there is a very small group of really good massage spas.

    The only local brands from a great build quality standpoint are the two you mentioned, but beachcomber does not do any really high-end therapy massage spas, They build good tubs (if you stay away from the stupid Hybrid options) but their best tub only has a few of the high flow therapy jets and no really big high flow monster jets or even good mid flow neck and shoulder systems.

    The Coast goes a lot further towards that end but at 50 miles you are right on the edge, a great service company can do this but your average guy can’t do it reliably.

  144. Reply
    admin August 27, 2018 at 8:18 am

    Hi Tony, the HL or the Clarity or the Getaway hot tubs are all a lot more reasonable without sacrificing build quality. The Twilight is a high end therapy massage tub with a focus on performance which is the cause of that higher price tag.

  145. Reply
    admin August 27, 2018 at 6:57 am

    Hey Edgar

    Not on my good guy list dude but if you have issues email me and we will try and help you. its hit and miss, I have had some really bad ones and some that were fine…

    vinegar is only as a method of cleaning a contaminated spa environment and is used to strip and burn contaminates we only use it for detergent contamination for the most part.

    I’m going got get Scott to reach out to you and get you the spa marvel for this size of a unit.

  146. Reply
    admin August 27, 2018 at 6:53 am

    Hey Justin

    I sent you an email with information have a great day!

  147. Reply
    admin August 25, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    Oh no man i didn’t think you were complaining, Sundance looks ok except the proprietary parts, they are owned by jacuzzi and jacuzzi is owned by an equity investment group and they are all about the spin the marketing and locking you in on parts. great corporate business model, crap for the end user πŸ™‚

    The guy who sells twilight didn’t he have clarity, and getaway and healthy living lines as well? they do some good mid and entry level stuff.

    you likely saw the Sundance at perfection, dont they also carry marquis? that would be a much better buy or go to rocklyn and see the clairty or hetaway spas.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
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    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.6View in Google Maps

  148. Reply
    admin August 25, 2018 at 7:36 am

    Hi Brian

    Do a full base, you don’t need pavers but they are a good idea, the main thing is to take off the fluffy topsoil and put in crusher dust tamp and level. personally, I would do pavers but the whole underside or nothing… do not just do a perimeter because the center will settle differently than where the pavers are creating a mess.

    also, I have cut a great deal with Spa marvel, it’s a natural chemical reduction system that I have been using for years and love… its drop shipped to your house in year supplies and will let you go to super low super healthy chemical levels and is easy as hell. guaranteed price and ill send you my tip and trick sheet and help you with any chem issues down the road! it helps support the site to and that keeps the big guys trying to influence me at bay!

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

  149. Reply
    admin August 25, 2018 at 7:31 am

    The build is fine on the vector and I like the rest of the lines from marquis as well, but vector bugs me for so many reasons… I hate that they just change the shapes then changed the names and pretended it was innovation… nothing at all special or different and I’m telling you its a big risk… If that line flobs you will be screwed for parts. This marketing ploy of making proprietary parts is bad for the end user… read this… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    also, don’t compare the vector to twilight, they are nowhere near comparable twilight is a whole couple of levels above it, compare it with healthy living or artesian middle lines this is not a high-end therapy massage spa at all it.

  150. Reply
    admin August 25, 2018 at 7:27 am

    Hi Jeff

    I like the Balance, new shell design and big open area for the footwell.

    Big Quality differences between the two brands.

    Shell – Balance has a hand-rolled self-supporting shell, Dynasty is a thinner shell that needs props under it to keep it together.
    parts – Balance uses balboa, Dynasty gecko… balboa rules man.

    The build quality is way better on the Balance, I got one and reviewed it and it was a mess, the guy that traded it had nothing but trouble. check out the video on the dynasty here: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/dynasty-spa/

    For comparison, goto this video, its a twilight but same company same build skip tot he middle where we show you the build on both videos. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/master-spa/

    One I highly recommend, the other I highly do not recommend.

  151. Reply
    admin August 24, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    I got to say the big dual zone Trainer 19 Deep swim spa is my best friend.

    I’m 51 and I work out daily and race Kayaks and Surf Skis I’m off to Quebec for the Canadian Nationals Monday where I will race 3 races in the Canadian National sprint series and 5 or 6 in the Canadian Master’s Nationals and there is no way I could train like I do without it especially with 5 or 6 major orthopedic operations under my belt.

    I swim in it twice a week or so, I stretch out in it daily after workouts, and I uses the hot tub side which is a twilight series hot tub for my aching shoulders and the monster jet for my feet and legs, as a diabetic the foot jets are great, my feet feel way better with regular use and it pushes old blood that pools in my feet out.

    For just a hot tub I’m not sure… I don’t entertain much so it would be all about the massage so a twilight 8.25 not many tubs have the 3.5″ high flow jets but if I entertained more probably an LSX 900.

    I sell that line in my local market as the biggest dealer in eastern Canada I could have any line I chose, fortunately, I had a lot of tools in the box to make an informed buying decision and almost 10 years down the road it has proven too have been a good sustainable line.

  152. Reply
    admin August 24, 2018 at 10:20 am

    Covers and lifters vary a lot.

    I look for a nice heavy grade of vinyl on the cover and 5″ taper with sealed cores and aluminum c channels. When new take the cores out and tuck tape all around the edges and the seams. The vinyl chaffing on the vapor barrier wears holes in it and usually they use box tape which comes unstuck in the harsh environment… planned obsolescence…

    For lifters stay away from hydraulics. They are problematic and make sure the brackets or aluminum as well as the tubing the plastic ones fail. Email me I have a great lifter chris@hottubuniversity.com I also have great deals on yearly lots of chems with loads if support and advice on water care.

    Access depends on luck and the tub πŸ™‚ if the tub is well built and all the equipment is on one side then you might get away with one sided access but if you can have 4 sided access its always recomended. Email me for ideas on how to build access into your plan.

  153. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    I would man, it sucks but do it right and you will have no issues down the road πŸ™

  154. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    sorry dude πŸ™‚

    Leisure Works LLC
    Remove
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    41430 Grand River Ave a, Novi, MI 48375
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 248-348-7727
    4.8View in Google Maps

  155. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    Hi Ernie

    beachcomber has a good build standard, I’m not a fan of the pumps outside but its more an efficiency thing and the risk of damage in power outages.

    In fact, all the brands I endorse build to the same standard but with integrated equipment so that we can reclaim the motor heat and protect the equipment from freeze up in poser outages.

    Good thinking on the install I like to see a minimum of a foot all around but 18′ to 2′ is even better.

    go see Jacqueline she can get you several good brands.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  156. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    I opened one up in January and was not impressed, cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing lines to the jets, dodgy insulation system that would never meet code for a house in Canada so it’s not good enough fro your hot tub.

  157. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    D1 was bought by Jacuzzi and haven’t seen one recently. sorry, when I did see them last they were using a gecko control system, Im not a big fan im pretty die hard on that peiece of equipment.

    Balboa holds some key patents that really set them apart in very real ways.

  158. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 12:04 pm

    Hi Jeff

    The parts are just the tip of the iceberg, these heavily branded lines spend too much on the spin and the brand recognition and the fancy marketing, they are mid grade overpriced as a result, in my opinion, there are much better spas for less. I want brands that spend the money on the tub build instead of the pitch and spin and marketing. D1 is owned by jacuzzi group of co’s

    Check these guys out, they make sell a good line and have good service.

  159. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 11:51 am

    The dealer is a meathead.

    No hot tub should ever be shimmed it will flex the shell and can cause issues down the road, even if it does not damage the shell the spa will flex and the cover will not fit right. He can put it in writing but that does not obligate the manufacturer to warranty it… It’s a bad call and makes me really question the dealer, he either does not know what he is talking about or will say anything to close the deal and either scenario is bad.

  160. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 11:47 am

    The new your area is a funny one there are not any brands on my good guy list.

    They all have issues:

    The Hot Springs, jacuzzi, suffer from way too much money spent on branding and goofy proprietary parts. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    The Max, vita, American whirlpool I opened had cradel supported shells, no clamps on the plumbing and an insulation package that would never meet code in you are for a home so is simply not good enough for your hot tub. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TNjLmPPnkjQvrXoQV3rVEK-CckcPqKAy/view?usp=sharing

    The Bullfrog has three of the right things but the plastic shells I am really not a fan of, these cradle supported shells are just not as strong as a good hand rolled fiberglass hull.

    Coast is not far away, its built and insulated right with good parts, Coast – Blue Wave Pool & Spa, 237 NY-31, Macedon, NY 14502

    There is also a master dealer in Syracuse and I know they sell and service all over the state.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
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    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  161. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 8:40 am

    Hi Erwin

    I like Coast from a build standpoint but I have not swum in one, the layout is a bit cluttered a lot of usable space taken up with the goofy seats at the end.

    The biggest thing is the depth they are shallow and you will only be up to your stomach in water, the 60″ deep swimmers are a massive difference.

  162. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 8:19 am

    Hey dude

    never heard of them but did a bit of poking around and no nightmares, google yelp etc all report 5 stars not that I trust a lot of ratings but they all read reasonably normal, one BBB complaint but it was a guy who put a deposit on a pool table and changed his mind…

  163. Reply
    admin August 23, 2018 at 8:04 am

    Marquis is ok but the silk is silly to forget it. I also have no visibility of the factory unlike master, Artesian, Coast, cal and numerous other ones that have brought me in to verify build… Marquis won’t even return my calls. lol

    I did manage to get ahold of one and I’m going to tear it apart and do a review but for now, it’s in a gray area.

    Both good spas the spirit jetting and performance is nicer it falls right between the HL628 and the TS67.25 have you looked at that? if you really want performance the TS is the bomb.

  164. Reply
    admin August 22, 2018 at 9:59 am

    Not a fan of the vector, too much silliness, and goofy parts, if that line flops you will be screwed for parts. Again I don’t like the HS and jacuzzi for the proprietary parts. https://www.hottubuniversity.com

    The Coast is a well-made spa but you also are right next to the biggest dealer in Canada…

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Remove
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  165. Reply
    admin August 22, 2018 at 9:54 am

    One thing I have learned in the past 2 years of doing this and collecting massive amounts of data is that proximity really does not ensure a good experience.

    There are great dealers and they can do business anywhere and be great because most of what you need is information… lots of people buy spas and never come into my store again, they call email and text to get information when they need it and have me send chemicals to them and when there is a service issue we send our tech or a tech ion the local area to fix their spa. Its a boot of a myth that they need to be near you.

    there is a coast dealer in Edmonton (Koko beach) they make good tubs but I don’t know about the dealer. and I know Jacqueline has access to 2 independent service guys there. so Empress would be a good option.

  166. Reply
    admin August 22, 2018 at 9:49 am

    As a broken guy with 6 major orthopedic operations under his belt, I sympathize.

    Over the decades of sitting long-term in hot tubs, I find the best thing for me for long-term real improvement is lots of big high flow jets with lots of power. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

    I love a good should jet system with 3.5″ jets most shoulder systems have the little low flow jets and they just don’t do it, for the lower back I like to sit in the footwell with a good 10″ to 12″ monster jet with a dedicated 5 or 6 hp pump. I sit in a twilight spa most mornings and it makes a massive long-term difference to my mobility.

    There is an artesian dealer there and they are a near second, but the biggest seller in Fla is the guys down in west palm, they have service guys all over the state and do a great job.

    South East Spas
    I have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com

    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles
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    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  167. Reply
    admin August 22, 2018 at 8:52 am

    Hi Kathy

    The bay area is a mess, retailers dropping like flies, the cost of real estate is just making brick and mortar locations so expensive and therefore the product so expensive that most of the tubs are being bought from out of the market. In an area of this population, I should have 30 or 40 retailers and there are like a dozen top. The worst part is they are all the mid-grade overpriced big branded hot tubs none of the really well-built stuff…

    The good news is all these tubs being bought from away had created a rich resource of independent service companies so if you stick with a brand with good parts you can get great coverage.

    I have a superstar out there that I literally have sent dozens of my customer to and the only thing I ever hear back is rave reviews these guys are the top in your region and carry great brands at great prices and can take great care of you.

    it is worth the trip to see them trust me they are just the other side of Sacremento.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
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    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.6View in Google Maps

  168. Reply
    admin August 21, 2018 at 9:38 am

    Hi Jody

    Get them to take the side off and shoot a little video or some snapshots email it to me chris@hottubuniversity.com I would doubt there is much difference. The parts were not bad on that Costco tub but the build quality and insulation were terrible

  169. Reply
    admin August 21, 2018 at 9:35 am

    The twilight for sure. great spa and easy to get parts for

  170. Reply
    admin August 21, 2018 at 9:34 am

    Coast for sure, good spa well built, good parts list.

  171. Reply
    chris wheatley August 20, 2018 at 5:34 pm

    Is almost 10 tons of water in that you absolutely do not want to use an easy pad.

    We pour redymix concrete 4500 PSI with air 6″ thick with 6 x 6 14 gauge wire mesh.

    You want to excavate the site t
    Till you get the top soil off and have good firm ground then fill 15″ or so with 1 inch clear Stone Tamp, frame, and pour. Get a pro or watch some you tube videos.

  172. Reply
    admin August 20, 2018 at 9:04 am

    yes and no… its super expensive to add foam, Home Depot does a 2 part foam kit for $750 that would fill that spa but the foam is the kind that hardens and could cause issues. to get the foam kits for the Icynene stuff would be $800 or more.

    the other option is Roxull insulation in garbage bags, just put the 6″ battons into heavy dude garbage bags and seal them with tuck tape (basically wrap them like a Christmas present) and fit them all around the spa leaving the front motor area open.

  173. Reply
    admin August 20, 2018 at 9:00 am

    Nothing different on the build just massage performance, the Clarity is like 90% of the tubs out there, good mix of jets and a pump for each side of the spa, the TS series has loads of the big expensive hi flow jets and the ability to divert a whole pump into he one seat and the other whole pump to the monster jets.

  174. Reply
    admin August 20, 2018 at 8:59 am

    Should be fine dude, if its been in place for 4 years and is level they did it right.

  175. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 7:28 pm

    Hey, Ho Mugno’s!

    Sitting in the evening sun sipping a cold IPA so here is my laid back Sunday reply on my phone so ignore the bad language πŸ™‚

    The truth is most of what you need from a dealer is knowledge and timely information πŸ™‚ if you stick to s solid brand with normal parts and a good dealer you should be able to troubleshoot over the phone most issues and get fast turnaround for service.

    I searched the area and there are no independent service co’s or anything around you so line up a local electrician or handyman who can use a voltmeter and have him on your call list for service, basically get him on site and call the service guy or me…lol

    Good shells last virtually forever, all tubs will have a heater and pump go in the 3-6 year mark, the average would be a call every 2-3 years. if they glue and clamp the lines you should not have too many other issues and nothing serious… on shitty spas the exact opposite is true, you will bleed money for heat, failures, parts and everything else forever… it’s like death by a thousand cuts…

    for a high-end therapy, massage try the TS 87.25 or the 7.2 for simple reliable try the Ochos Rios ho these folks up

    Allstar Pool & Spa
    Called Store no one was available at the store, Left my name and number for a sale rep to call me back.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1821 Tin Valley Cir, Birmingham, AL 35235
    http://www.allstarpool.com
    +1 205-655-8870
    4.9View in Google Maps

  176. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 7:06 pm

    Hi Carol

    The element is a well-built spa, performance wise that model has very few of the hi flow therapy massage jets mostly the less expensive smaller jets and the neck jets look like again the low flow jets and there are no big blaster jets for feet and calves and glutes and bigger muscle masses. so performance wise I m going to say it will be the upper middle.

    Silk balance is not that well known to me but it looks similar to sap marvel, there is a lot of these systems out there and I tell you in the enzyme group the Spa Marvel works really well and is not expensive… I can get you early bulk orders at the right price and it helps support the site, now aqua finesse is the next level, its a mineral system like Mineralux they are expensive where you might pay $120 or so a year for an enzyme the mineral systems are closer to $500 but there is no argument the skin therapy aspect and the ease of water care is unparalleled, that being said the Spas marvel is miles above anything else I have tried so its all relative. I know with 2 women in the house both with problem skin I probably saved money during the teenage years on skin care products with AF but for normal people, spa marvel is all you need.

    Hit me up on chris@hottubuniversity.com ill get you solid pricing on your chems and it helps support the site and keep us unbiased πŸ˜‰

  177. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 6:53 pm

    Ok

    You can still put it there esp if its a good hand rolled self-supporting shell. You need to put the filter down at the low end and it will look goofy and lose water when too many people are in.

    one solution would be to frame the area with 2″x2″ and put a thin plastic sheet in and fill it with self-leveling concrete. be care full when you put the tub on, you need to run 2×4’s like train tracks on top of the slab and slide the tub on the 2×4’s then lift one side and remove the 2×4 and then lift the other and remove the other one. if you try sliding the tub on the pad you risk breaking it up.

    Another solution is to put down a couple loads of crusher dust and level it and again make 2×4 tracks to slide the tub on and remove the 2×4’s. then carefully remove the dust around the edges and use a thick concrete mix with lots of plasticiser along the edge to hold the dust in or frame the edge with timber down to the old patio to keep the dust in place…

  178. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    yep thanks!!!

  179. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    Vita is not in the same class, this is made by American whirlpool the one I opened in March had no clamps on the plumbing, a batton insulation with radiant barrier and a cradel supported shell… forget it nowhere near in the class of the other two.

    also, go see these guys for a third esp if you are looking for high-end therapy massage, the three brands are comparable on build and insulation but the Twilight line wins on performance.

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    The folks at Dixon carry my top brand and they hung out with us at the show this year, we spend a few days together and they have taken great care of a number of my customers.
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.8View in Google Maps

  180. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    The Bay area is a mess, overheads are killing retailers but there are tons and tons of independent service guys which is great.

    I got a gem in the area, he is a ways out but worth it, his prices are good, brands are great and with over 20 service companies around you, the service level is superb…

    you got to go see my buddy Todd in Rocklyn, I sent this guy scads of business and every single time I get customers emailing me to rave about their experience, he is a top dealer and an honest straightforward guy.

    Take the time to go see him you will not regret it.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.6View in Google Maps

  181. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Hey Franck

    Sp is not a master dealer anymore, they will have to buy that from me πŸ™‚ they do this then try and upgrade you to a “better line” for free.

    i like the 8,2 better… more pumps don’t make a better performing tub. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/small-pumps-large-pumps/

    email me chris@hottubunioversity.com

    tell me the prices you got quoted

  182. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    hey Brad.

    go see Master of West Michigan man… check out Twilight hot tubs… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/ great lighting, great build, insane performance

    Master Spas of West Michigan
    Master Spas Of West Michigan
    2055 28th St Se, Grand Central Plaza, Grand Rapids, MI, 49508
    Phone: 616-475-7770
    mrspas01@aol.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2055 28th St SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49508
    http://www.masterspasgr.com
    +1 616-475-7770
    4.8View in Google Maps

  183. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    Hi Justin.

    I bet you the dealer is a pool company LMFAO. only pool companies and beachcomber still use bromine man, its old tech, back in the days when we used 3-5ppm of chlorine bromine was a good option because it smelled better but was not as good of a sanitizer as chlorine.

    but now that you can get to such super low levels of chlorine it does not pay to use. bromine is still a halogen-based oxidizer like chlorine so its still carcinogenic and badass to inhale email me on chris@hottubuniversity.com and I’ll get you set up on the right shit drop shipped to you yearly at the best price you can get.

    Stamped concrete can be ok if the texturing is not too bad and its level but it rarely is level… check it and see, any more than an inch of drop over 5 feet is going to look stupid… if it is over 1″ ping me and ill offer some solutions.

    You can switch between bromine and AF or use AF with bromine to reduce the levels of bromine from 3-5 ppm to around 1-2PPM on that tub you could get lower with an ion cartridge.

    Listen master is the same build quality as the Marquis, the only time I would say that it kills the Marquis is a performance on the high-end units on the midlines it’s all the same… if you really want therapy massage then you can’t beat the Twilight, I’m a 51-year-old guy who has had 6 major orthopedic operations and I don’t mean keyhole shit I mean get the screw gun out kind of surgeries and I still train daily and will race sprint series kayaks at the Canadian nationals this year… I sit in a twilight every morning.

    in some areas buying out of the market is dodgy but in some areas where there are good independent service guys on the ground its not an issue… great dealers are about communication and information not proximity, the actual on the ground service is handled pretty easily on brands with the right parts in areas with the right resources.

    I have 2 good service companies in the area that specialize in hot tub service that I have registered with he site.

    hit me up on chris@hottubuniversity.com if you want to explore options.

  184. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    No worries brother enjoy!

  185. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    hit these guys up I’m pretty sure they can help you,

    Swimming Pool Supply Co
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3850 SE Capitol Cir, Grimes, IA 50111
    http://www.spspools-spas.com
    +1 515-986-3931
    4.2View in Google Maps

  186. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    Hi Ed

    I said in some areas where there are a lot of resources on the ground in the form of independant service guys it can be a safe bet to buy from out fo market if its a good brand with good parts πŸ™‚

    I have a couple guys listed there for service so you should be fine…

    hit me up if you ever have problems and we can help you out.

    in the meantime help us and we can help you email me about bulk chemical orders and advice that will make your hot tub easy to manage and save you money we can drop ship you bulk chemical orders at the right price.

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  187. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    So my preference is the TS simply from a performance s=tand point, but are you sure about that price? $7995 is super low, make sure its a 2018 new unit…

    The south seas is a mid-performance model nowhere near the class of the TS, the artesian are great spas but a comparable performer to the tS would be the island elite line, the tropic seas are mid-level more like the Healthy livings.

    Again marquis build right but performance wise if we compare the top ends they are the lowest of the three.

    The 7.25 at that numbe ris a no brainer but i think there is an error there, it shoul dbe around $10k on deal where there is no local dealer and closer to $11 from a brick and mortor retailer.

  188. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 12:28 pm

    The frog system mineral ion cartridge is good, use it together with spa marvel and you can get to super low chem levels.

    Email me and I can drop ship you years supply of the spa marvel at the right price

  189. Reply
    admin August 19, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    Russos does marquise good build but they top out at mid to low high-end performance.

    Go see Kelly and Michelle at The Spa shop… great people the spas are built the same but they the top two lines Twilight and LSX kick the hell out of the top Marquise for performance.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps
    42.25189, -88.81727

  190. Reply
    admin August 18, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    No problem brother. Buy me a coffee though my donation tab πŸ™‚

  191. Reply
    admin August 18, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    Some.of the expo guys have a bad rep. In some areas if there is not good local support it can be risky.

    Build quality they are great but local support is area specific. I dont have a lot of independants there but the factory is one of the largest employers in the area so I imagine you would be ok there

  192. Reply
    admin August 18, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    Hi

    Salt is old tech being regurgitated its unreliable and only gets you to 1-3 om of chlorine. There is cheaper better tech that can get you to below 1ppm. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/chemical-free-hot-tubs/

    Hot up south east spas in west palm. They have service guys there. Look at the getaway hot tubs

  193. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 5:56 pm

    Dude. I’m in halifax πŸ™‚

    I send at least a dozen spas to the rock and have a local guy.

    If yer buying local only the Beachcomber should be on your radar and the problem there is they dont do any real performance massage spas but for a general well built hot tub you cant beat them.

    Hot me up on chris@hottubuniversity.com I’ll sort you out

  194. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    Yeah master gets a bad rap from the expos. Some legit form bad support and some unwarranted from competitors. πŸ™‚

    Good build, good parts, good insulation. It’s a good place to start.

    The real key is on the ground support. Even if the dealer sucks master has a pretty robust back end customer service in some areas with good on the ground service it’s fine, even of the seller fucks up the factory can help.

    Dude yet in Indiana! That’s masters home state.. forget it yer fine. They will take care of you or master will cut thier nuts off lmfao

  195. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    Man I dont know the dealer. They have never reached out. And when yer hitting half the buyers in a market they should all be reaching out but just because they are not net savy doesnt mean they are a bad dealer πŸ™‚

    Like the brands its goo build and mid to upper end performance

  196. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 5:32 pm

    Hi

    Mann thats a tough one.

    We do lots of tricky installs like this bit without seeing the site it’s very hard to evaluate things like gradient, soil conditions, water flow etc.

    Rule of thumb is build a suitable retaining wall, best case is to tie it in to the concrete slab or at minimum build a block nor tiber retaining wall.

    Frankly it sounds like your concrete guy is not used to this kind of job. You need a structural concrete guy he will know what to do.

  197. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 11:00 am

    The Artesian is a much better spa the price is ok not crazy good but relatively good.

  198. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 10:54 am

    Hi

    Yeah, I am not a fan of the Arctic either, they just are not that well built the best thing about that company is the marketing ;-), did you have a lot of leaks or was it a component failure?

    check out the Coast spas here:

    Lumen Homes Inc.
    Details from Google Maps
    2450 Lancaster Rd #31, Ottawa, ON K1B 5N3
    http://www.lumenhomes.ca
    +1 613-738-1790
    View in Google Maps

    check out the artisans here:

    Purewater Total Home Leisure
    Status Unverified: We don’t know anything about the dealer but the Artesian line s on our good guy list

    Sells Artesian
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2070 Robertson Rd, Nepean, ON K2H 5Y8
    http://www.purewaterpool.com
    +1 613-726-0099
    4.5View in Google Maps

  199. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 6:54 am

    Thanks, Joel

    if you feel I helped throw me a , on my donation tab, every little bit helps to keep me clear of the spin monsters money and stay genuine and unbiased.

  200. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 6:53 am

    Thanks, Tom donations help me stay out of the pocket of manufacturers and keep objective, although I will only say what i believe to be fundamentally true regardless of what anyone offers to pay me πŸ™‚

  201. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 6:50 am

    So Ozonators in hot tubs are of very little value. while ozone is a powerful oxidizer the system required to really effectively sanitize the water is complex and expensive they need to be treated air on the intake, multiple absorption chambers, and ozone off gas destruct system… No hot tubs incorporate these high-end systems, the truth is on hot tubs they stop producing much ozone after a year and either need to be replaced at a cost of a couple hundred or unplugged… frankly you can spend the $200 on spa marvel or something similar and have equal results.

    looking at the payment means nothing it depends how long it is amortized over and the rate… what is the actual price to buy it? the $600 for the pad is good if they are digging the topsoil off then putting in crusher dust and leveleing and tamping and then putting a pad on…

  202. Reply
    admin August 17, 2018 at 6:44 am

    Hi Mark

    The problem with a plug and play is that on a cold day when you take the cover off they lose heat so fast and the little heater can’t keep up so 10mins is about the time you have until the water is getting cool and unit need to be covered again.

    There are lots of these that are dual voltage, you can plug them in and if you find you are not getting enough cold weather use you can remove a jumper and hard wire them and the heater goes fro, 1kw to 4.

    Go see these guys and look at the Getaway line, fantastic roto tubs and the LE are dual voltage…

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys and spent a few days with them, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps

  203. Reply
    admin August 16, 2018 at 11:31 am

    Hey Brad.

    yeas absolutely, any brand I recommend has the 4 main things, good shell, good parts, glued and clamped plumbing and full foam Icynene insulation!

  204. Reply
    admin August 16, 2018 at 10:44 am

    Hey Brad.

    it’s critical that you stick with an easy to source OEM parts list. and all 3 of those spas have all the right things the 8.2 would be my choice its literally the tub i sit in every morning πŸ™‚ here is a video i shot of mine, the first part is a performance the second I rip it apart… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

    The boys at Krevco sell them:

    Krevco Swimming Pools & Hot Tubs
    Approved: Master, Twilight, Clarity, MP Legend, Healthy Living, Plug and Play
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    700 Berry St, Winnipeg, MB R3H 0S6
    http://www.krevco.com
    +1 204-786-6957
    3.4View in Google Maps

  205. Reply
    admin August 16, 2018 at 9:59 am

    Hi Yvonne

    Maxx does not turn me on at all…

    Cradle supported shell and an insulation system that would never meet code for your house so why would it be good enough for your hot tub? they didn’t even clamp the plumbing lines on the one I saw…

    I’m going to email you a sneak peek at a video I shot yesterday explaining the insulation thing.

    Im a Beamsville Boy πŸ™‚ born and raised, you need to go see my friends Debbie at Niagara Hot Tubs… they are awesome and will take great care of you and carry solid brands.

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  206. Reply
    admin August 16, 2018 at 9:42 am

    Hi Bob

    You absolutely do not want a separate circulation pump, especially for a rental unit… read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/24-hr-circulation-pumps/

    There is a high-end roto mold line out called getaway hot tubs that can run the heater at the same time as the pumps and is full foam, good parts, and glued and clamped plumbing, perfect for a rental. available is a basic single pump or a high-end double pump system.

  207. Reply
    admin August 16, 2018 at 9:37 am

    Hi Joel

    Tough number, most of the stuff at this price is garbage, used might be the way or you might get lucky on a Getaway or Nordic.

    try these guys

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  208. Reply
    admin August 16, 2018 at 8:59 am

    Hi Darren

    So of your List, it would def be the Artesian way out in front, they do all the right stuff, then the Bullfrog and if they did a nice hand rolled self-supporting shell they would be in my recommended group but that ABS pedestal supported shell is just not nearly as good. The other 2 ore on my watch list mainly due to the proprietary parts, I would never buy or sell a spa without the Balboa heating and control system…

    Here is why I don’t like proprietary parts… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    You also have like 20 independent service guys in and around LA so buying from an event sale or a fair is pretty safe down there as long as you make sure you have a standard OEM parts list.

    running costs are all down to insulation, and usage… I’ll email you a sneak peek at a new video I shot yesterday about insulation.

  209. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    Hey Steve

    you can hit me up by email if you need to chris@hottubuniversity.com

    enjoy your hot tub…

  210. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 8:26 pm

    No worries man if ya need anything hit me up…

    Happy hot tubbing

  211. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    Hi dawn.

    Any of those brands are solid micro silks a gimmicknin my opinion. I would not spend money on it πŸ™‚

  212. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    Good build and upper-end therapy value. but lack of factory support so make sure the dealer is strong.

  213. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 11:42 am

    Of all the brands Hot Springs make the Hot Spot is not the worst. Go see the getaway spas at best buy pools and spas in Cleveland. Hit Dallas or Ted up 440-623-7554

  214. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 9:59 am

    Yeah my main evaluation is for build quality, performance wise the artesian does not match up to something like the Twilight but they still do a pretty good job

  215. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 8:01 am
  216. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 8:00 am

    tell them I said hi and to get you the right price or I’ll break their legs… lol

  217. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 8:00 am

    Hi Steve

    there are some gems at that price and lots of nightmares πŸ™‚ it’s a tricky price point. go see the guys below, and look at the Getaway Hot Tub Ochos Rios… it is the best entry level spa on the market, good solid reliable and well build with top insulation and hand-clamped plumbing, its got all the right stuff.

    Spas and More!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    12957 Gravois Rd, St. Louis, MO 63127
    spasandmorestl.com
    +1 314-843-7727
    2.9View in Google Maps

  218. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 7:56 am

    If you want a good Canadian made spa go to these guys and get a Coast.

    Coast – Piscines Val-Morin Signature
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    175 Rue de la Pointe-Langlois, Laval, QC H7L 3J4
    http://www.valmorin.com
    +1 514-856-7738
    4.2View in Google Maps

  219. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 7:50 am

    Hey Joe,

    East of you is Allstar Pool & Spa @ 1821 Tin Valley Cir, Birmingham, AL 35235

    West of you is Atlanta Spa & Leisure

    I went to these guys and saw thier operation and know the owner, great guys and they know thier shit.

    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000

  220. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 7:46 am

    if you are diligent with your water and filter cleaning you will be ok, hit me up if you have issues.

  221. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 7:44 am

    Don’t like Sundance because of the proprietary parts, frankly, I never looked further because that alone is more than enough to make me run for the hills read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    Sunrise again middle of the road the big issue here is insulation… its crazy 2″ of batton insulation is not enough to meet code for your house so it’s not enough for your hot tub.

    you have a Coast dealer Coast – Valley Pool & Spa – Washington, and an Artesian dealer Artesian – Alpine Pools both would be better options, I also know master has some service guys there so reach out to Dan he might be able to help you… Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com

  222. Reply
    admin August 15, 2018 at 7:11 am

    get back in touch with them, i set them up with 5 local service companies that can make this good for you

  223. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    yeah all in the wording sometimes, typically that’s how it is done, they are all wet tested and the idea is you show the customer the tub while empty so they can see everything, then go through chems sitting at the table then tell them to turn the hose off and turn the power on when its full, sometimes it can take hours to fill and that would cost you $300 in labour for a guy to sit there and turn a hose off and flick a breaker on. πŸ™‚

  224. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    meh, they are all similar, proprietary parts and big marketing and branding budgets so big money and frankly mid-grade build and performance, I guess Sundance… These types of brands are why I started this site, spin marketing and especially proprietary parts make these a total no-go for me… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    you have 2 good service guys there if I were you id pop up to Canada and buy one aaa spa repair in Columbia falls and Brians spa service in Whitefish can handle service and they are on your doorstep…

  225. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    Hi Eric. No idea about the Royal but small regional guys can’t afford to build to a high standard they just don’t do enough volume, but if you can get into the factory shoot me a video πŸ™‚

    Caldera is part of the Hot Springs Group and these big marketing guys spend so much on the branding and BS that there is not enough left over for the hot tub, and they use proprietary parts which are a big no-no in my books read this… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    Tropical seas are Artesian and they are built right, I toured the factory in January also Indiana pools and spas in Bloomington sell marquis.

    But dude the master factory is in Fort Wayne… you can get smoking deals friom the local guys on demos and end of lines and they are in your backyard so you know they will service the hell out of you.

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys and spent a few days with them, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps

    .

  226. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    Hi Lisa

    I’m not a fan of any of them the PDC stuff is just not well made, the Sundance and Hotsprings are better spas but overpriced and full of proprietary parts read this to learn more why I don’t endorse proprietary parts. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    there is a Coast dealer called del Mar pool and spas in Danbury go look at those. there is also an Artesian dealer Factory direct hot tubs in Branford and a factory direct group selling Master these three would be mile better quilty and better parts.

    try these guys and see if they have service in your area.

    Factory Direct sals
    Master
    888-315-7727
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    51 Railroad Ave, Cheshire, CT 06410
    View in Google Maps

  227. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    Hi Scott

    they use a good easily sourced reliable parts list.

    The big issue i have is the Shell, I am not a fan of the ABS plastic shells, they just and nowhere near as strong as a good glass shell, anytime you need to put pedestals under a shell to support it means its not a great shell…

    they also engage in a lot of pseudoscience bs with regards to flow rates and use scaremongering about leaks… good well plumbed spas don’t leak so the pods do nothing but limit where the jets can go but that’s secondary stuff.

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/bullfrog/

  228. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    Sweet. you will love it!

    There are some delays in all the brands I endorse because with half the buyers in North America coming to me for advising the brands that are building great hot tubs are experiencing unparalleled growth…

  229. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    Hi Tracey

    I tried calling them a few times I can’t get anyone to answer I just get a machine and can’t find any hard info…

  230. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:53 am

    Hi John

    the HL line is like most brands top ends, it has a good mix of high flow therapy jets and regular jets but it is not in the class of the Twilights or island elites, that being said for most people it would be more than they need..

    i would not bother with the masterful it already comes standard with eco pure and if you add on spa marvel you can get to drinking water levels of chems and it’s super easy to manage the water.

  231. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:45 am

    If you are going ot go local look at the bullfrog by wet and wild.

    I am dealing with a service guy down there and might be able to help you out. let me look into it.

  232. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:43 am

    Hey Brendon

    man proximity is rarely an assurance of good customer care πŸ™‚

    either a dealer is on the ball and good or not… ping them and see, a lot of dealers have a good pool of independent guys around for service.

  233. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:41 am

    The Nordic is a solid well-built spa but performance wise they don’t do anything in the high-end therapy massage class.

    There is not much around you except loads of independent service guys, I have like 5 around you registered so you should be able to buy any brand with good parts and get good service out there.

  234. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:31 am

    Hi Tracey… Strong makes this spa that I reviewed and the video went viral… I am definitely not a fan of this brand πŸ™‚

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/strong-spas/

  235. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:09 am

    Hi John

    While you could just put insulation in there a vapor barrier will greatly increase the heat retention… its why it is mandatory on a house to wrap it. By making these batons into nice little-sealed units and nestling them together you will greatly reduce airflow and get better performance.

    And yes absolutely leave the motor area open so the motors can breathe. or better yet use good expensive Icynene insulation which does both things better πŸ˜‰

  236. Reply
    admin August 14, 2018 at 7:06 am

    Hi Bill

    The Hot springs can be a good tub with a great dealer that has carried the line for years. They will know the specific idiocracies of the goofy parts and fabrication. My biggest thing here is you pay a lot for marketing, branding and advertising for these brands and the tub, in my opinion, is middle of the road performance, and build and priced super high to cover the massive branding and advertising budget… There are way better spas for less money.

    The other problem is every year more and more spas are bought and sold online or at events, more and more retailers are disappearing and being replaced by service centers, I get the feeling that the market is going to change here pretty quickly, the reality is great dealer customer care is not about proximity its about information, you need someone to call to help you through the little stuff and the actual repairs on the ground if you have a standard parts list is as good or in a lot of cases better with an independent service company that does nothing but fixing hot tubs.

  237. Reply
    admin August 13, 2018 at 7:06 pm

    Hi Nancy

    I should have HotTubgiveup.com where I just buy the tub for you πŸ™‚ Sometimes I wonder how I became a hot tub expert… What a weird life, lol

    Anyway… Vortex is an NZ brand I knew nothing about it until yesterday when strangely enough someone else asked about it… long and short is nope the hell out of there, a goofy control system (poss gecko) no clamps on plumbing and a dodgy insulation system.

    Jacuzzi is on my hit list because of the proprietary parts… Make sure you at least have a balboa heating and control system. https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    Between the Balance, the Hollywood, and the 735L the Hollywood is the winner for performance the Balance 7 for usable space.

    Stay away from the vector stuff, all the parts are goofy and if it fails which it likely will because all it is is different shaped pieces with names designed to confuse you and make it sound special then you are going to be screwed for parts, and the reality is anyone making parts to lock you into them is great for them bad for you… So either the HL or the Antigua and they are very different spas… Performance wise the Antigua in this group.

    Overall you need to make a decision on what buyer you are… If you are broken and looking for therapy like me I have to say the Antigua but you should hit the Master dealer up and try and get them to match the price on a Twilight… it’s the best and they should be able to get close… If it’s about space and entertaining then the Balance 7.

  238. Reply
    admin August 13, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    HI Tracy

    All you have there are Dynasty and Hydropool and neither would I buy or sell… ever… Brands like this are the whole reason I started this site…

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/dynasty-spa/

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/

    You do have a gem there though. Oralia Pool design is an award-winning retailer that does installations and service for hot tubs.

    When you have an asset like this in your market you can literally buy anything that is built well and uses the good OEM parts and be assured of good solid customer care levels.

  239. Reply
    admin August 13, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    I have sent a lot of people to Davids and never had an issue.

    Winterizing is never included in a sale and can be booked through their service department I would assume or through any service company or done yourself its pretty easy.

    Warranties are never free. If someone offers a 5 year or a 3 year or a 2 year you can be assured it is built into the price by either the manufacturer or the retailer. just because it is not an itemised item does not mean you didn’t pay for it and in no way is an indication of quality… frankly a 3 year with the option to purchase more is better than a 5 year that you paid for anyway because in one case the retailer is offering you a choice and in the other they are forcing you to buy it and hiding the price in the price of the tub πŸ™‚

    I think Davids does a good job and again I have sent dozens of customer to them

  240. Reply
    admin August 12, 2018 at 7:26 am

    Hi Steve

    I know the area well, used to boat Georgian bay every summer lovely area.

    neither are on my good guy list, but of the two the Bullfrog is much better built and insulated, I am really not a fan of the Hydropool

    You don’t have a lot of choices out there, but I do have a good service company in that area so if you stick to brands with good parts you can buy from out of the area.

  241. Reply
    admin August 12, 2018 at 7:12 am

    Great I love that spa, I literally just got out of my 8.2 πŸ™‚

  242. Reply
    admin August 11, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    Hi Mike

    Wa is an area mostly supplied by out of state sellers, there is a huge resource of independent service companies there and any well-built brand with a good parts list can be effectively serviced by this rich resource.

    The Artesian spas meet our standards.

  243. Reply
    admin August 11, 2018 at 4:34 pm

    Hi Laura

    I was out to see your factory in January, your production manager was open and honest and I know first hand that you guys do a great job.

    When a company meets my strict guidelines for production I’m happy to work with them, but you should contact me directly and investigate how you can help us help you. I’m already sending people your way because I know your tubs are a good purhase. We are helping to put your brand in front of nearly half the buyers in the US market.

    We should talk about having us do a review video of one of your products, this does not give you any control over what we say but when you are building like I know you are then we can do great things for your brand. We can also help you a lot by having access to your dealers so we can investigate them and see if they meet our criteria for service and support which would then put them in the recommended dealer list.

    We are committed to putting great products from great dealers together with customers!

  244. Reply
    admin August 11, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    def the Bullfrog, the American whirlpools do not clamp the plumbing lines and uses radiant barrier insulation with 2″ of batton insulation, radiant barriers were all the rage int he building industry in the 80’s and 90’s until all the northern US states and the Canadian mortgage housing authority issued warning about it, it is a poor insulator and not effective for containing heat in a system, this stuff was drummed out of the regulated industries now its the “miracle” insulator on hot tubs.. stay away. the shell is also cradle supported which means it’s not robust enough to support the weight of water… this does not meet the minimum criteria for a brand I would endorse.

    The Bullfrog does everything right except the shell, I’m not a fan of the old ABS plastic shells most guys went away from this tech 20 years ago because of failure rates but it certainly beats the American whirlpools on my scale, this keeps them out of my recommended brands, you need to at least build a good shell, clamp the plumbing insulate right and use good parts to be worthy of my endorsement.

    try these guys

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people,
    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379

  245. Reply
    admin August 11, 2018 at 4:19 pm

    Vortex is a mid-grade brand out of Australia, poor foam, goofy resin shell and a mid-grade control and heating system. It would not make the cut for my recommended brands.

  246. Reply
    admin August 9, 2018 at 11:12 am

    Build quality it is fine, good parts, good shell, good plumbing and if you order the full foam good insulation.

    Depth is an issue, it will be belly deep, man I really like a good 60″ deep swimmer but be careful lots of guys just putting the 51″ deep swimmers on a pedestal to call them 60″ deep πŸ™‚

    The layout is goofy.. those seats along the side will make this very unusable for actually swimming against the current, you will be biffing your feet and legs off those seats. it’s really more of a big hot tub that a proper swim spa.

    try these guys and look at the H2X same build quality and parts but much better flow rates and clean open areas and much better jetting in the main seat and deeper…

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.

    Owner: Gerald
    Dealers #1 931-455-2500
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    507 W Lincoln St, Tullahoma, TN 37388
    http://www.hicespool.com
    +1 931-455-2500
    5.0View in Google Maps

  247. Reply
    admin August 9, 2018 at 10:47 am

    Nope perfect that a 94×94 tub and the base is around 91×91 all good…

  248. Reply
    admin August 9, 2018 at 10:46 am

    nice, shoot video of the tub and spend a lot of time in the equipment area get close-ups of pumps esp between the electric motor and the pump head and the heater.. send it to me by email chris@hottubuniversity.com

  249. Reply
    admin August 9, 2018 at 10:45 am

    Yikes! thanks for the info

  250. Reply
    admin August 9, 2018 at 10:44 am

    Thanks! have a great day and happy hot tubbing

  251. Reply
    admin August 8, 2018 at 10:55 am

    Dynasty I would be leery of, check out the video of the one I got ahold of… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/dynasty-spa/

    That cover lifter in the picture we went away from the plastic bracket was snapping in half, we went to a similar one with an aluminum bracket.

    There are no good brands out there and hardly any dealers, they are all going broke… these guys in west palm sell spas all over the state they are by far the biggest seller in Fla and have a ton of independent service guy in Tampa to do service, call them and see if they can help you.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people, by from them and get hot tub university approved on the invoice and then you can always fall back on us if need anything/

    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  252. Reply
    admin August 8, 2018 at 10:46 am

    Hi Jamie

    1. Marquis, for the main reason that they use a good reliable readily available OEM parts list and Hot Springs makes goofy proprietary parts that only fit their spas… read this for an explanation… https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/

    2. spa that spends big money on branding, marketing, spin hype and bullshit don’t just fool joe public they fool dealers too πŸ™‚ most dealers do not know much about the reality of this world they just drank the kool-aid and now regurgitate the info to you and lots of them really believe the spin… they are not being dishonest they are just uninformed.

    3. 2nd-time buyers almost never buy loungers but first-time buyers insist on them so its simple supply and demand – Give the people what they want – its easier than spending the time to educate them πŸ™‚

    4. Used spas can be good or bad, stick to a good brand and take a video of the equipment area and the tub in general, send it to me ill have a look, get good slow moving pans of the motors close up, the heaters everything…

  253. Reply
    admin August 8, 2018 at 10:26 am

    Hi Mary, there is no one right around you but there is a dealer in Pheonix and they might have a service depot there, hit them up and see if they can help you.

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  254. Reply
    admin August 8, 2018 at 10:16 am

    Love Rhode island, great surf ski community I’m coming do through there to race the lighthouse to lighthouse in Maryland next month!

    Lazy boy is not really a brand its a p[rivate label and its been messy spa every time I have seen it, I think its built now by Hydropool or sunrise.

    Call these guys they likely have a service guy down there and they carry good brands…

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  255. Reply
    admin August 8, 2018 at 10:12 am

    Coastal spa and patio in Placentia carry artesian but that market is a mess, all the retailers are going bust because the cost of on the ground brick and mortar showroom are so high that the prices they charge are batshit crazy so most people are buying from out of state or at events, which frankly aren’t much better because they cost a ton to put on…

    The good news is the local independent service market is vibrant and full, I literally have over 20 independent service companies in the area registered with the site so you can buy anything with a good standard parts list and be well taken care of.

    there is a monthly or bi-monthly expo there its an option as well.

  256. Reply
    admin August 8, 2018 at 9:38 am

    Hey, paul.

    Not a lot of good choices right around you, but the biggest seller of hot tubs in Canada is in Kitchener and he has service guys around you… you will save a lot and he does a good job.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  257. Reply
    admin August 7, 2018 at 9:29 am

    Hi Brad.

    Both are good tubs.

    I like the new layout on the clarity, big open spaces are what you want in a water environment and that footwell just has so much room you can actually get 14 sets of legs in it, the BF, unless you have friends with no legs, will be a squeeze.

    the shell on the clarity is a hand-rolled vinyl ester resin cored self-supporting shell the BF is an ABS plastic shell, a lot less expensive to build and it needs pedestal s to support it and keep it from breaking, I’m not a fan of this outdated tech from the 80’s

  258. Reply
    admin August 7, 2018 at 8:50 am

    Hi Bob

    Get a rotomoulded.

    they are hardy and virtually indestructible, the non-slip finish is good for liability issues and there are a few that are built right.

    You want big and open not too much fancy shit, full foam, and good parts.

    If you stick to standard parts list there is a great service guy we have registered there called Olsen’s spa service who can take great care of you.

    Personally the Nordic or Getaway would be good options.

  259. Reply
    admin August 6, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    thanks man!!!

    click here for options πŸ™‚

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/funding/

  260. Reply
    admin August 6, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    thanks man!!!

    click here for options πŸ™‚

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/funding/

  261. Reply
    admin August 6, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    LOL

    the dealer does not know what he is talking about πŸ™‚

    its Balboa control and heating system and CMP jets

  262. Reply
    admin August 6, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    Hi Celeste

    yeah, it’s a wonky world. The hot tub industry with its old-school high-pressure sales tactics and loads of cheap crap with fancy marketing like the brand you just mentioned… You dodged a bullet in my humble opinion the best thing about an arctic spa is the brochure.

    Yeah, 8k Cdn can get you a good spa but its a super dangerous pricepoint, most stuff at that number is crap but there are a few gems.

    Unfortunately, nothing in Edmonton but that’s not the end of the world, there are a lot of tent sales and special events and that has created a rich pool of independent service centers. I have 3 guys listed there so you will have no problem getting good care.

    I would go to a Nordic hot tub, or a getaway Hot Tub both great durable spas with good parts and good manufacturing but because they are roto mold spas you can save a ton. The rotomoulded tubs are durable as hell but most of them are cheap junk., the New getaway line is awesome and the Nordic is a close second, the Getaway beats in on insulation by a lot and has the best color in the new sea salt finish.

  263. Reply
    admin August 5, 2018 at 7:25 am

    Hi Mary

    You know for most people all hot tubs look good, and the reality is seeing one isn’t likely going to help you much, they all look nice πŸ™‚ also you don’t likely have the information to evaluate a hot tub from the site, not many people do.

    In your area, there are very few options. a couple marquis dealers and they are well built but they don’t do anything in the performance range of the twilight, I really think its one of the best tubs out right now. You also have 3 independent service centers out there so you should be ok for support.

    Here is a video I did of mine if that helps.

    https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

  264. Reply
    admin August 5, 2018 at 7:20 am

    Covers are the bain of the hot tub world for sure.

    I do not like the hydraulic ones, they really mangle the cover and have had a lot of failures.

    Go simple, Aluminium and aluminum brackets if possible, the steel just rusts eventually and the plastic brackets break.

    I found a really good one I sell but its a no name and it stands up like a wall.

  265. Reply
    admin August 5, 2018 at 7:14 am

    Both lines are well built, and neither have factory support so in both cases you need a good dealer.

    I like the monster jets in the Island and overall i think it will be a slightly better performing spa, and I have toured the factory and know first hand the build.

  266. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    The coast is a solid tub, I’m going out there this month to see the factory but I anticipate them getting on our approved brand list.

  267. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    Hi Jennifer.

    The H2X is one of the top swimmers out there but go to the deep version you will appreciate the extra room. The depth makes a massive difference.

    The flow rate is great the builds are great the parts are great it really is a top swimmer. I have the trainer 19 D in my backyard which is basically the t15D with a hot tub tacked on. I swim in it 3 times a week at least.

    hit me up if you buy any swimmer ill get you set up on the right chemical program that will save you money and make your life easy.

  268. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    Hi Michael

    The brand is well built and ticks all the right boxes.

    Performance wise it is going to be upper mid to lower high. lots of the small inexpensive jets but a few hi flow therapy jets. there is really no foot jets and the neck jets are the small ones and really don’t put out enough water for real massage.

  269. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Hi James

    The whole filter thing is meaningless all filters do is remove debris from the tub and all tubs filter well. it does not matter if you see the filtration working. the other thing is the Artesian might have had a circulation pump which I never recommend always go with a regular two-speed high flow filtration system.

    There is nowhere in So Cal you can try a master, that whole market is wackadoodle, most of the retailers are gone or dying, the cost of retail brick and mortar is brutal there most spas being supplied to that market are bought at events or from out of State. There are on the other hand tons and tons of independent service companies.

    Read this article: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

  270. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 10:40 am

    Hi Lazo

    Yeah in my mind it is worth it, the Payton is all small low flow inexpensive jets and really should be compared to the Clarity line, the HL is a much higher end tub from a performance and jetting standpoint and the Balboa control and heating systems is just ion a class of its own and easy to source parts for I hate proprietary parts its a scam…

  271. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 10:37 am

    Hi Peter, there is nothing close to you but as a result, there are 5 independent service companies there I have registered, you should not have any issues with customer care there.

    I can send you a list of local service guy but the guys up in Waynesville has these guys listed I’m sure.

    I know the owner there at Davids, Chris Sutton is a solid guy and will take great care of you.

    I prefer the TS 8.25 to the 8.35… read this https://www.hottubuniversity.com/small-pumps-large-pumps/

  272. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 10:24 am

    Hi Sal

    I went to look at the Marquis website to compare them but the site is giving a warning about security πŸ™

    The truth is the vector is a dumb tub all those goofy sharp angles look cool but they will date the purchase, its cool now but will be lame in 2 years, It will also cause problems down the road for replacement parts and once you fill it with water you won’t even see it plus moving around in that tub will be a pain bumping into all the crazy angles, water world is about open spaces, not crazy contouring, I would stay away from that tub

  273. Reply
    admin August 4, 2018 at 9:54 am

    Hi Guy

    Yeah, not going to happen πŸ™‚ this is a pressure side filter, Its the only thing I am not a fan of on that tub but it’s not a major issue.

    The first example of this is the filtration system, It is an old pressure filter systems and the β€œspin” put on it is great!! People love the sound of a β€œpressure filter” housing, heck it’s filtered under pressure! It must be good! The reality is almost all of the industry has moved away from this filtration system and moved on to β€œsuction side” filtration.

    There is one big difference between the two systems: On older β€œpressure filter” systems the water is filtered on the pressure side of the pump and on suction side filtration it is filtered on the suction side of the pump! That means that on this older pressure filter system the water goes through the pumps and through the equipment before it gets filtered!!! The accumulation of debris in the pumps and in the heater elements can cause damage and it just makes sense to filter that water prior to it going through the equipment! That is exactly why 90% of the industry abandoned these old pressure side filters decades ago and moved to suction side filtration, it filters the exact same amount of water but it does it before the debris goes through the heater and the pump.

    Another pitch they use is that when you remove the filter the debris from the filter won’t fall into your hot tub water. Its silly because the debris falls into the filter housing and when you put the clean filter in and turn it on half of that debris gets blown into the tub anyway not that it matters, the little bit of debris that falls into a hot tub or the filter canister when changing the filters gets re-trapped in a few minutes… and debris does not float out of the filter when the pump is off, I hate scare tactic marketing.

    How all filter systems really work is the water goes through a filter which cleans all the debris out of the water, then that water gets dumped back into the tub so right away it gets mixed into the unfiltered water… over time more and more water is filtered and after a few hours, there is no debris left. The only way to really have 100% filtration is to pump the water through a filter into another container, then once it is all filtered you can put it back into the hot tub…

  274. Reply
    admin August 3, 2018 at 11:01 am

    Thanks, man and enjoy! hit me up if you need anything

  275. Reply
    admin August 3, 2018 at 11:00 am

    Hi Lazo

    First off the Sundance is an ok spa but the proprietary parts would make it a no go for me.

    Second, you live in Kitchener the biggest dealer in Canada for any brand is there and they carry much better-built spas and the price should be good, look at the Clarity line very similar performance and design.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  276. Reply
    admin August 3, 2018 at 10:54 am

    Yep both are similar for performance but the clarity is a much better build, and I love that shell design, bog open seating with a massive footwell, that’s a new design last year and it’s a great roomy spa I would expect to pay a bit more for the clarity.

  277. Reply
    admin August 3, 2018 at 10:52 am

    They are both good build quality, parts and insulation, the Artesian is going to outperform it.

    from there on its personal preference.

  278. Reply
    admin August 2, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    Four winds are the middle ground.

    They use a goofy rigidiser on the shell instead of fiberglass, there have been delamination issues previously. I don’t know if they still do it but they also used to use a particle board base and then a 1×1 wood subframe on the bottom, made it easy to pick up with a forklift but the particle board would sag over time and it exposes the base of the spa to the air which means higher heat loss.

  279. Reply
    admin August 2, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    My bad… hit alk to 150 then if needed drop ph to lower end of ok around 7

  280. Reply
    admin August 2, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    Hi Lori

    Coast is a good spa and wet testing really does not tell you much.

    read this. /

  281. Reply
    admin August 2, 2018 at 12:23 pm

    Absolutely the Artesian better build quality by a long shot and no goofy proprietary parts like the other 2 are full of.

    Pricing is always hard to comment on, regional differences in the cost of doing business, distance to the factory, service levels and size of the business are all effectors.

    Most tubs are very similar seat depth, one gimmick is to mount it on a pedistal to put a bigger number in the depth collum πŸ™‚

    The artesian dealer or the Seattle Hot Tub Company sells Marquis.

    There is also another option, the west coast, in general, is a very changing market, retailers are dying like flies and being replaced by independant service comapnies ans more and more people buy from out of market, if you stick to brands with standerd parts lists you can buy from out of state and get great deals and have good service, I literally have 6 independant servicd centers listed there.

  282. Reply
    admin August 1, 2018 at 6:18 am

    Marquis is a funny group, I get calls for factories every week trying to get on our recommended brand and these guys I have been trying to get into seeing their factory for 6 months and they just won’t let us. they are crap at returning calls and I sell them a couple hundred spas a year… makes me wonder what chance a customer has πŸ™‚

    not sure about that model but I got a guy near you who is a superstar, these guys have taken care of dozens of customers for me and never hear a bad word about them.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  283. Reply
    admin August 1, 2018 at 6:12 am

    Hi Sandy

    it’s a regional manufacturer out of Grimsby Ontario. cradle supported shell and an insulation package that would never meet code here for a house so it’s not good enough for your hot tub… Roxul needs to be 6″ think to meet code so why is 2″ enough in a hot tub??? it’s not…

    Email this guy he is a friend and can help you out in that area.

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  284. Reply
    admin August 1, 2018 at 6:08 am

    Hi Nancy

    not heard of them, had a quick look and it looks like a rebrand, buyers groups will get manufacturers to build them a private label or they will bring in a line from China and private label it,

  285. Reply
    admin August 1, 2018 at 6:04 am

    Hi Guy

    the big thing here is that they both do a lot, so if a guy is gluing and clamping and is filling the cavity the two things together make a great combo for a leak free tub. and yes absolutely it makes a big difference, when we say it does not harden we mean it does not turn to a rock it still sets up firm.

  286. Reply
    admin August 1, 2018 at 6:02 am

    the Getaway spas from master area great entry level reliable spa without too much silly stuff, then the Clarity not sure what the entry level is for Marquis.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  287. Reply
    admin August 1, 2018 at 6:00 am

    Absolutely if you want to go local Coast is the one, good build quality, good insulation, good shell and good parts! I like these guys they are on my recommended list and I’m going to be seeing the factory this month if I ever get enough time!

    The only other one I would consider would be the Nordic, but it def a lower end performance tub and the insulation is middle of the road,

    The AW and Vita) I would not take seriously cradle supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing and reflective insulation that was basically banned in home construction 20 years ago and is now the miracle insulation in hot tubs πŸ™‚

    The Jacuzzi suffers from proprietary parts which is more than enough for me to run for the hills.

  288. Reply
    admin July 31, 2018 at 11:43 am

    hey dude

    these guys are awesome, one of my top recommended guys

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  289. Reply
    admin July 31, 2018 at 11:43 am

    hey dude

    these guys are awesome, one of my top recommended guys

  290. Reply
    admin July 31, 2018 at 11:40 am

    The jacuzzi is a decent enough spa from a performance standpoint but I would absolutely never buy or sell one because of the parts.

    The LSX is going to perform well and has the top parts and build quality out there and they use the Icynene foam insulation system.

  291. Reply
    admin July 31, 2018 at 9:04 am

    Hi Andrew

    I’ll send you over the spec of where the wire needs to come up for that model.

    He is right you should not need any re-enforcing if he has good base prep.

  292. Reply
    admin July 31, 2018 at 9:01 am

    So American whirlpool is Vita and Maxx and it’s middle of the road. Cradle supported shell and no clamps on the plumbing and an insulation system that is all hype and bullshit. its funny in this unregulated industry we have bizarre conversations about insulation systems that we would never have in the home building industry. My rule of thumb is simple. If it does not meet code for a house in your area its simply bullshit and not good enough, these reflective foils were all the rage in the 80’s and then all the northern US states and Canada issued warning about it and it was basically banned in the housing industry and now all of a sudden its the miracle insulator for hot tubs πŸ™‚ This shit has virtually no R-value it is crap at containing heat in a system and is only really suited for reflecting radiation away from things, so in Florida put it in your attic and it will bounce heat away but you need thermal mass to contain heat and R-value is king.

    Sundance is definitely a step above but what kills it for me is the proprietary parts, I would never buy or sell a brand that does not use the good parts Esp the heating and control system.

    these guys sell Artesian check them out. You also have 2 local hot tub service companies, that means you can go to any brand using a good parts list.

    Artesian – Xtreme Backyards
    Artesian
    Remove
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    108 Town Center E, Santa Maria, CA 93454
    http://www.xtremebackyard.com
    +1 805-925-5040
    4.7View in Google Maps

  293. Reply
    admin July 30, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    Hi Edward

    They are very close but there is one big difference, the Captiva only has around 10 of the expensive hi flow therapy massage jets. the rest are the inexpensive low flow jets, it also only has one flow control nozzle and I assume that is for the foot jets whereas the twilight has two one on each pump. also, the neck jets on the twilight are 3.5″ therapy jets the Captiva I think are the small ones and they just do not push enough water for a shoulder massage. also, I like 2 big pumps, they are way more efficient

    So while I like both these spas equally from a build standpoint the performance on the twilight is a lot better.

    I have nothing in your area, the guys in West Palm sell all over the state and there are a few service companies they use in your area.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people, buy from them and get hot tub university approved on the invoice and then you can always fall back on us if need anything/

    Steve’s email is sharp@southeast.com
    Steve is more involved in the retail stores.
    Owners Philip Giles and Larry Giles ( they focus more on the shows on the rd.)
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  294. Reply
    admin July 30, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    So Sundance jacuzzi and hydro pool are all owned by the same group. I don’t like the first two because of the proprietary parts

    Hydropool I am even less impressed with

    Strong again not something I can get behind

    Bullfrog is by and far the best built of the list, the only thing I do not like is the ABS plastic shell, I really like a good hand rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell with a vinyl ester resin core. but it has a great parts list, glued and clamped plumbing lines, and full foam Icynene insulation system.

  295. Reply
    admin July 30, 2018 at 11:31 am

    Vita is part of Maxx now, I opened one up the other day in Atlanta and have to say I was not overly impressed. cradel supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing, an insulation package that would never meet code for a house in a northern state.

    Austin carried Artesian and premiere carries marquis both better buys and I got a great guy in Houston and I know he has a service guy locally try them as well

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    4.0View in Google Maps

  296. Reply
    admin July 30, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Hi Tom

    Anything over 45 minutes to an hour away means they will likely use an independent service company Top Hat Stoves & Pools in Wheeling is near you and good.

    The Maxx should be a lot cheaper…

    Twilight Vs Envoy

    twilight has many more of the expensive hi flow jets and it has flow control so you can divert a whole pump into the main seat and a whole pump into the massive monster jets in the footwell, the Evie really compares more closely to the line down from Twilight called healthy Living, Maxx does not do anything in the ultra high-end therapy spas like the Twilight. see this video on how it runs and is built.

    then the build issues…

    Twilight hand rolled self-supporting shell Maxx, thin cradle supported shell
    Twilight glued and clamped plumbing Maxx dip glued
    Twilight and Maxx both use the Balboa heating and control system
    Twilight $450 full foam Icynene around R-20+ Maxx $100 foil with batton around R-8

  297. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:33 am

    Hi Vince!

    glad to help, let me know what chems you are going to use I can drop ship at the right price and know all the secrets to easy eater care πŸ™‚

  298. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:32 am

    Hi, Guys, I don’t know the dealer, they have never reached out to us.

    I’ve seen and reviewed the factory for the H2X and the ATV guys won’t let me see near the place which raises a lot of alarm bells for me, they are also crap at returning calls and do not have end-user support so you really need a great dealer, the H2X guys have full factory assistance if your dealer drops the ball.

  299. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:25 am

    Def the beachcomber out of that group, way better build and much better parts, the Sundance uses proprietary parts, bad idea… watch this…

    Forget the miracle chemical aftermarket UV and salt… just goto spa marvel or aqua finesse… way lower chems and easier and cheaper, never buy any of the miracle chem reduction systems the after market stuff is cheaper and I can drop ship your chemicals there for a great price on yearly loads. hit me up for pricing because not only do I have great prices on chems I have tip sheets and advice that will make water care a breeze…

    Talk to the girls at Empress in Calgary they have a few service install guy up there and carry Twilight and HL…

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  300. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:14 am

    Hi Kyle

    Where are you getting your spa from? I know parry sound really well I was there 3 or 4 times a year for a decade πŸ™‚

    I don’t see any local guys there and I can get you great pricing on several lines down there.

  301. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:10 am

    Hi lyndon

    pes gravel moves around a lot its not typically used for this application.

    do what you said then put crusher dust in and level and tamp then p[ut patio stones down. you can put it right on the crusher but for the extra couple hundred a concrete patio stones make a great base…

  302. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:08 am

    Hey Derek

    I cant really help with the diagrams and parts, I have heard of spa builders but you can likely get parts online for it.

    Unplug the ozone and forget about it.

    Insulation… goto home depot buy roxul or fiberglass pink and hefty industrial garbage bags and tuck tape. Make battons and just fit them around the tub making sure to leave ample airspace around the equipment. if you find pumps shutting off because of overheat then add some closable vents in the equipment area for summer use.

    You can use aquafinesse or for a budget version goto spa marvel… on either one hit me up ill get you dropshipped at the right price for the chems, give you good tip sheets to help you and it helps me keep unbiased πŸ™‚

  303. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 8:01 am

    Hey John and Mary.

    It’s great when I get real people to swim testing all these swimmers and saying exactly what I say πŸ™‚ I was really surprised by the H2X VIP swim jets I had an old H2X and when it came out if figured it was more bullshit but the tech sounded reasonable and when I swapped mine out I was blown away, I race kayaks at the national level and work out 5 days a week and I only use about 60% of the maximum flow on the H2X I have for my 20 minute swim workout.

    I use the standard Eco Pure Ion filter system that comes stock standard on that line and then the Aqua Finesse and run .5 ppm chlorine levels.

    the 18′ and 15′ are very similar a lot fo the 18′ is the sunbed πŸ™‚ actual water surface area is similar.

    cover wise the smart tops have been good we sold a lot fo them, there were some issues but the factory was good at fixing, replacing and they seem to have worked the bugs out. The roll-up covers are awesome and she can likely handle it herself but they are pricy.

    Listen I can drop ship you the chemicals at the right price esp if you buy year lots with filters… I’ll save you a ton, offer good advice (I have some tips and tricks on this product that will make your life easy!) and you help me too πŸ™‚

  304. Reply
    admin July 29, 2018 at 7:46 am

    hey, how are you doing?

    They’re well-built nothing I have against machine insulation system he’s a little bit of foam on the shell and it’s a cheap poly based foam and then they use that fiber material so overall you’re probably looking around 2 or 6 or 7 maybe even R8.

    Other than that it’s good parts, and they glue and clamp the plumbing lines, also, those rotationally molded shells are virtually indestructible.

    Up until this year, I would have said it’s the best Roto mold on the market but then getaway Spas came out and everything on them is identical to the build construction of the Nordic and they have a full foam insulation system which is worth about four hundred bucks more…
    check out these guys.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
    Remove
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.3View in Google Maps

  305. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 7:04 pm

    You know what’s funny for about 10 years the main picture that showed up on the Internet of swim Spas was an overhead shot of a guy and red trunks swimming in a swim spa. That was me shot in the early 2000s in London England πŸ™‚

    Yeah I know swim spas.

    The first thing is depth to make sure you get a good deep swim spa, I’ve been in little ones and big ones and nothing made more difference to my overall enjoyment than a good deep water level.

    And ignore the brochure information you got and measure the actual water depth cuz some guys just put empty space underneath to make it sound like it’s a deep Swim Spa.

    The h2x line from Master is a great swim spa and it’s not stupid money. It really does fluid tunnel water with the new VIP injector plate, and I speak from experience.

    I’ve had an H2X in my backyard for 8 years and rotated it through several models. The added depth is a big game changer but costs the factory a 8 to 10 million dollars to upgrade to vacuum form that deeply.

    When it comes to insulation just look at regulated Industries like the home building industry. You need R-value there’s no substitution for it, full foam Icynene is the way to go for tubs. You only get these cheap substitutes and systems in the unregulated industries.

  306. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 6:59 pm

    See now you’re getting me out of my Realm.

    Where do a lot of personal taste issues here and unless you’re wet test the tub you never really going to know what’s best for you.

    Definitely go to the 7.2 it’s so much more hot tub for the money and the price isn’t that much difference between the 6.2 and 7.2.

    It’s funny I rarely advise wet testing but when it comes to deciding if you want to lounge or not it’s a good idea. The reality is what 85% of second time buyers don’t buy the loungers. You’re floating it’s not that important.

  307. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    Going to be honest man you live in Fort Wayne Indiana that’s right where Master Spas head office and Factory are.

    Like most manufacturers they will have a local Factory Direct blend store where they sell seconds go there there it’s a no brainer try calling the factory tell him you’re a local and looking to buy a spa.

  308. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    Yep you hit it right on the head. Highly secretive high-priced unregulated industry. All the pigs are at the trough.

    Part of the reasons I started this site is because this misinformation is crazy. I mean in any regulated industry we don’t have discussions about whether to inches of insulation or 8 in is better. It’s ridiculous you couldn’t even get a permit to build a house with the installations and systems in most hot tubs. Anyway…

    From a strictly easily repairable build quality standpoint believe it or not the Nordic as good as any of them. All although I got to say the colors are horrible but that in $2 to get you a cup of coffee πŸ™‚

    Of the other ones they’re all brands that are reliant on proprietary parts. So if you got a solid dealer you can be okay. The big advantage to staying away from the proprietary parts is your much more insulated from business failure events because anybody can fix the standard hot tub with standard parts.

    You got to say I like the insulation system on the Caldera as well.

  309. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    Doable but a big project.

    Pumps and control system jets fitting and plumbing would be easy $3500 and a good foam kit would be $400+

    I would not do it myself even with trade pricing on parts… better to buy a good used unit.

  310. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    wow those are some very different spas.

    The twilight is the top in my book esp if therapy massage is your goal, crazy little tub. the Nordic are well made and good easily sourced parts and repair guys. the Caldera is a no go for me because of the proprietary parts. Tropic seas I would not have on my short list

  311. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    Hi Joshua

    Hydropool was bought by jacuzzi it’s an unknown but I’m not a fan of either brand and unless they have done something major I would stay with a good safe line like H2X, Phelps, Tidal fit…

  312. Reply
    admin July 28, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    Hi Vince and sorry for the late response

    The TS is a great tub stock standard.

    – no to the master pur, it’s a good system and easily as good as any of the options out there but the truth is the low flow circ systems are not as good as the standard hi flow systems, and with the standard eco pure filter I use spa marvel or aqua finesse and the water is easy to manage, lower chemical and cheap as chips.

    – Orion lighting – Your call but I find the standard lighting ion this model already better than most companies upgraded packages and the Orion makes it too damn bright.

    – Sound system, the top one ios awesome and sounds great but at the price, there are better options for outdoor stereos but again this is not a bad option, just stereos in spas are expensive.

    – Wi-Fi cool but finicky for connection on all hot tubs because the water is an awesome shield πŸ™‚

    – ABS bottom pan… if you put it in an area that drains well and put a patio stone base down then you tub is sitting on 2″ of concrete so why bother? if its a damp area then its a good option.

    Sundance is part of jacuzzi the problem I have with it is the parts list.

  313. Reply
    admin July 27, 2018 at 9:53 pm

    Man that’s a tough one.

    Out here $12k cdn would be good but it so depends on the area.

  314. Reply
    admin July 26, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    I’m sorry I dont know goofy parts… on most spas you can just put the cap back on but I dont know thier goofy parts well enough to offer good advice πŸ™

  315. Reply
    admin July 26, 2018 at 4:33 pm

    Propritary parts are never a great scenario and simply increase your risk exposure. None of the propritary parts are as good as the top stuff.

    We wont even work on them so you are right… with a great dealer you are ok but the world is changing retail are dropping like flies and the reality is the old established retail in a lot of cases has the highest exposure and has the highest likelyhood of failure.

    It’s a changing world. Guys like me with good communication and real information will dominate the sales at some point…

    For me the risk and the reward… artesian builds better spas… so does bullfrog… in my opinion… simple as that…

  316. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    it’s a good spa I’m not a fan of the plastic ABS shell and the pods are a gimmick and the reduced plumbing does not increase flow rates but all in all its still a good
    (if overpriced) spas…

    read this:

  317. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    Yeah I am with you on Microsilk… even the pitch is goofy…

    Artesian and marquis, master, and even coast are all very similar construction and all good build.

    for therapy massage though the twilight kills them for 2 big reasons… the neck jets are the 3.5″ mudflows and the other ones all use the little jets and they just don’t move enough water for shoulders. and the monster jets with he diverters, man for lower back, legs feet, thighs glutes, those massive jets with a whole 6 hp pump on them just are insane…

  318. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    Hi joe

    the Eco spa I was not aware of so I called the factory, and it’s not great, the reason it is inexpensive is the build and parts list is not great it a second rate control and heating system, no clamps on the plumbing and an inexpensive fiberglass batt insulation system.

    The Tuff is similar

    One of the best roto mold spas out there right now is the Getaway or Nordic, try these guys

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    4.0View in Google Maps

  319. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 9:21 am

    The Arctic Spa should not be expensive, other than the shell everything else is cheaply built, I am not a fan of this spa at all, In my opinion they spend a lot of money on branding and advertising and not enough on the hot tub, see this review, Similarly Hydropool is not on my good guy list…

  320. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 9:17 am

    I like Nordic.

    Its a tad cheaper than the Getaway because the insulation is a lot worse on the Nordic but other than that they are very similar.

  321. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 9:15 am

    Sure, Tony, you can do all those things, the clamps will be hard because they are put on before they glue the fitting so you would have to use hose clamps and that will take ages. The expanding foam pack to do that tub will cost you $400. The Shell will always be cradel supported you can’t do anything about that.

  322. Reply
    admin July 23, 2018 at 9:09 am

    If it’s a small leak like 1/2″ a day or less you can try fix-a-leak sometimes it needs two or three applications but it works well.

    Try these guys:

    AAA Action Spa Services & Repairs
    Remove
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    Princeton, NJ 08540
    +1 609-987-0040
    View in Google Maps

    Hi-Tech Spa Service
    Unknown dealer – Service all Brands
    Remove
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    2 Beacon Hill Dr, East Brunswick, NJ 08816
    http://www.hi-techspaservice.com
    +1 732-718-9590
    3.7View in Google Maps

    Spa Tech
    Unknown dealer – Service all Brands
    Remove
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    Pompton Plains, NJ 07444
    spatechllc.com
    +1 973-616-6531
    5.0View in Google Maps

    Rick’s Hot Tub Service
    Independent service tech, However has poor google reviews
    Remove
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    4430 Crosswicks Hamilton Square Rd, Trenton, NJ 08691
    +1 609-890-8338
    1.0View in Google Maps

  323. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 8:18 am

    bullfrog.

  324. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 8:16 am

    It’s a funny one Maddie, the caldera you need strong dealer support because of the goofy parts list, that parts list is also why I really don’t like it and it is so overpriced because you need to cover the massive marketing costs and branding costs… and performance wise its nothing special, and only 5 of the expensive hi flow therapy jets and the rest are cheap low flow jets, no monster jets and the neck jets are again low flow.. there is nothing expensive or impressive about this spa.

    The Master or Artesian or Marquis would be easier because you dont need a good local dealer because the parts are the good reliable redily available so any local service guy can reliably repair them

    Remember local matters, not at all on a tub with standard parts, what you need is information and that’s easily supplied over distance, the chems can be ordered online and the only thing local you really need is service so if you have a local service guy you should be good to go. Spokane Spas is the service guy everyone uses down there they are a good reliable repair center.

    The twilight spa kills it for massage so if really high-end therapy massage is what you want the twilight, its the spa i sit my broken ass in every day πŸ™‚

  325. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 8:05 am

    Hi Darren

    that area is an interesting market, most of the tubs sold there are bought online, or at event sales and state fairs, the cost of real estate has killed a lot of the retailers and the ones left are carrying the big expensive heavily branded mid grade overpriced lines πŸ™‚

    Can’t find anywhere locally you can wet test a master unless you goto Sacremento…

    you do have an artesian dealer near you they would be my goto if you really need to wet test but to be honest wet tests are not going to tell you much, especially if you are looking for high-end therapy massage spas and here is why..

  326. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 7:59 am

    Hi Louis

    The Hot Springs and Jacuzzi are really one of the reasons I started this site, I got so fed up with these guys who are using proprietary parts to and spend so much on the slick marketing and branding and sell these mid-grade spas at high prices.

    Dr. Welness is the opposite end, in my opinion, they just build a cheap spa at a cheap price, you want right in the middle in that sweet spot where they are using a great OEM parts list and not blowing their brains out on the branding and marketing…

    You have an Artesian, and a marquis dealer north of Washington but I would go see this guy, he’s great and carries good solid lines.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  327. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 7:54 am

    I have the 8.25 same spa without the lounger…

  328. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 7:54 am

    I like Coast, I’m out to see their Factory this month some time to do a walk through but all in all a good spa

  329. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 7:45 am

    Hi Mike.

    Master gets bad reputations for a couple reasons and none of them have to do with the quality of the tub… 1st some of the expos sell hundreds of miles away and have little or no local support and are crap at back up and support while some are great, depending on the area, in your case the dealer is local so that’s awesome I also Know the owner and know these guys do a good job, I refer a lot of business to them and have had no issues.

    The other reason Master gets a bad rap is again Expos, but more to do with fake reviews…

    The ratings you see on a Rating site reviews can be anything from anyone and most of the time if it is really bad review or a really good review it’s either a competitor posing as a customer or a dealer posing as a customer, these fake reviews are not isolated they are rampant some studies suggest that as much of 50% are fraudulent.

    The discussion forums are populated by hot tub sellers, they have a Bias and an agenda it is in their best interest to knock brands that are taking money from their local markets so the Expo guys Like Master Spas are public enemy #1 because they have numerous dealers who travel the country selling at these massive sales.

    When a company comes into a market, does and Expo and sells Half a million dollars worth of hot tubs in a weekend the local retailers go bananas! Especially when they sell at thousands less than the high priced fancy showrooms. Local retailers see this as unfair competition and they vent their anger on the discussion forums and ratings and review sites by posing as customers, and bad mouthing the brand that is stealing millions from their local markets.

    Forbes reported that even Amazon is suffering from a massive increase in fake reviews anyone can create a fake email and an account on Yelp, or any other rating site or discussion forum using a VPN and totally skew the real data concerning the reliability of a product…

  330. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 7:38 am

    So the getaway is a roto mold which means the shell is made differently. they are rotationally molded plastic and used to be just cheap low-end spas. this one is not, they used good modern shell layouts, nice colors (especially sea salt) and the same build quality and insulation as all my recommended brands!

    American has good parts, but on the downside, thin cradle supported shells, no clamps on the plumbing, and cheap reflective foil insulation with a tiny bit of batton… this would never pass code for a house in a northern US state so it’s not good enough for your hot tub…

  331. Reply
    admin July 22, 2018 at 7:34 am

    Its never a good scenario when they make a part to just fit their spa, it is simply a ploy to trap your business forever and the vector 21 while looking innovative is no different in any real sense to any other tub other than changing the look and calling everything different names to confuse the purchaser… I hate this kind of crap. I love innovation for real added value but this is just gimmicky crap to fool people.

    Where you are there are very few retailers and lots of independent service guys including a guy in Battleground so stick with a good OEM parts list and you will be safer.

  332. Reply
    admin July 21, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Catalina seems to be doing the right things but I have not seen one first hand in a while.

    The Samoa looks like mid-end from a performance standpoint like most spas it’s a mix of the good therapy jets and lots of the inexpensive little jets with no flow control and limited foot and neck systems, for the average tub customer not looking for anything too crazy on the massage front it should be a good spa.

    Frankly in the Montreal area its as good as it will get.

  333. Reply
    admin July 21, 2018 at 2:50 pm

    Some of the expos are bad and the pricing is ok but in your case, you have 2 good independent service guys there Tub Tech and fix my tub so you should not have any issues with service.

    You have nothing there I would even consider the nearest is newmarket and that only in the area is in Newmarket selling marquis. They are a good well-built tub but do not do anything in the really high-end therapy massage spas so depending what end of the market you are looking it they might be a decent option.

    frankly, great dealer customer care is about information, not proximity, most people don’t need an expensive retail storefront, you just need someone who is good at communication and a good local service guy esp if you are sticking to a good line with good easily sourced parts.

  334. Reply
    admin July 21, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    Marquis good Caldera mid.

    all the triangle tubs I know are either super expensive (twilight Marquis) or cheap crap.

    The other problem is if you are average or large size there is not enough surface area to displace water and so when you get in water gets out… pain in the ass in the winter to have to top the tub off.

    go for a good 5×7 load’s more choice and much more usable space.

    The Marquis is the only spa around I would consider but the nice thing about the west coast is there are tons of independent service companies. The problem is their retail is too expensive especially with property values out west so no one buys retail, they are all dying out there and being replaced by service depots.

    One of the best small spas out there is the new getaway spas, nice looking new designs, glued and clamped lines, full foam and balboa heating and control system, that is the magic combo… check these guys out.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.6View in Google Maps

  335. Reply
    admin July 21, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    Not really… read this:

  336. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    Hi Andrew.

    Twilight standard lighting package is already enough, its way above most spas standard lighting and better than a lot fo upgraded lighting packages.

    I find the extra lighting upgrade on this line too much, it makes the spa just too damn bright. I actually had a customer insist on ordering it then had us disconnect it for him πŸ™‚

    see one at night with standard lighting… its already great

  337. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Dr. Welness is not a brand I would be seriously considering.

    A lot of gimmicks and an insulation system that would never meet code for a house in your area.

    They use a Goofy parts list, although I heard they might offer balboa control and heating systems, but then radiant barrier insulation systems were basically banned in the housing industry in the northern states int he 80’s and all of sudden 20 years later its the miracle insulation for hot tubs…

    Then those friction heaters, that tech is so ass backward it’s not even funny. first electrical immersion heaters are super efficient near to 100% of the energy that goes into those heaters get into the water as heat energy. friction heaters, on the other hand, are horribly inefficient… think about the progression…

    1. we take electricity and convert it to mechanical energy in the electric motor inefficient as hell
    2. We transfer that energy into water pressure with the pump and get big losses in the transfer
    3. then we transfer that energy back into mechanical energy of friction… again huge loss
    4. then we transfer the mechanical energy into heat… Bonkers… this is just bullshit science to try and create a unique selling feature.

  338. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:32 am

    The biggest end to satisfaction is timely and accurate information, unless these guys specialize in long distance customer care stay away the learning curve is too high…

  339. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:22 am

    Black pine in Edmonds does artesian, and Seattle hot tub company does marquis which are both good brands.

    the west coast is funny, no one is buying from brick and mortar retailers out there, there are dozens of independent service guy there because most of the tubs sold out there are from events, online, and out of state cause you can save a ton…

  340. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Hi Mark

    a dealer that has been selling these for a long time will not have any issues with service because they know the particular nuances of the brand.

    The bullfrog has a better parts list for sure than the other two.

    Typically HS has a lot of service requests, we did an evaluation of the discussion forums and in insanely high number of request for service are for this brand, way more than would be explained by market share for sure.

    We had about 20 hot springs around us from a defunct dealer, it was a nightmare…. the auxiliary control panel failed 100% and the customer just gave up and stopped putting them back in. the heater relay boards failed allot and we had leak issues, we literally had a customer cut one in half because they could not get it out to fix it and the insulation and lack of access made it nearly impossible to service.

    We stopped servicing them because it was a pain in the ass to get parts, had to charge a fortune for parts to the end user and frankly, the brand negatively impacted our customer care reputation so we dissociated ourselves from the brand entirely. Its critical with these goofy parts brands to have a solid long-term dealer or you are going to be in a world of hurt because almost no one will work on these except an HS dealer.

    There is one absolute here… I would never even consider a brand that did not use Balboa heating and control systems… they own some key patents that really set them in a class fo thier own… they are expensive but the failure rate is low and repair easy, reliable, and cheaper then the goofy parts…

    gravel compacted is fine, we typically do patio stone base, cheap cheerful and stable.

    Then there is the area you live in… dude, there are hardly and retailers on the ground there anymore, too high of a coat for brick and mortar locations it adds too much to the price and most of the west coast is not buying from retailers anymore its all from out of state, online and events. the good side of this is there are tons of independent service guys out there I have 14 registered to the site within 50 miles of you. these resources on the ground let you go to any brand using good OEM parts and get great service.

    if you insist on going retail try these guys, but remember man, proximity does nothing to help you… it’s about information… the actual on the ground service is easy and reliable in areas like this with so many service guys around.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.6View in Google Maps

  341. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 11:04 am

    Hi Robert

    I have a limelight arriving here Monday I’m going to rip it apart and have a look but everything I hear is Great marketing, mid-grade tub and it would be a no go for me just on the parts… I like the insulation system. I also do not like the low flow circ systems, they really limit the amount of water you can filter and because they run 24/7 they don’t last long.

    There is a nordic dealer in Elmira but its pretty entry level and I have a Master guy out in Albany that I know has service guys down near you.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  342. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 10:54 am

    Marquis is a good brand, but they can be lacking in dealer support.

    My big issue with Sundance is the proprietary parts.

    Being in Vegas the obvious would be Artesian but there are already 2 locations.

  343. Reply
    admin July 20, 2018 at 10:51 am

    Hi Daniel

    None of the systems are easily hackable, but they are all to some extent but I need to issue the obligatory warning that hotter temperatures are dangerous and you void your warranty on the whole tub and it is not recommended πŸ™‚

    Lights can be too much, I find if you get too much light it’s no longer a nice ambient light but an in your face glaring light.

    While you can fit a transducer to the shell I find with a good sub base box you get lots of shell amplification anyway and you can always fit a transducer tot he shell.

    The factory for Marquis is there though you might get a second factory direct and htey are a good overall spa.

    Marquis Hot Tubs
    Details from Google Maps
    7170, 8775 SW Cascade Ave # A6, Beaverton, OR 97008
    http://www.marquishottubs.com
    +1 503-684-6110
    4.8View in Google Maps

  344. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    the haul away is likely around $500 with dumping charges, price wise the ts stuff anything under $12k would be good, and the LSX should be $2500 more… hard to say for sure in that market west coast is a pricey place to do business.

  345. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    Easy just start using it πŸ™‚

    Ill email you a tip sheet…

  346. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    Hi Marie

    The CSC tub and the Hydropool both suffer some pretty serious issues mainly insulation and shell on the Hydropool and insulation and jets on the CSC. here is a Hydropool review and I have to say I am not a fan of this line at all. the CSC would be a better bet.

    Go swim in the H2X, flow rates are great, depth is almost a foot more water depth. I train daily and will race in the Canadian nationals I swim my 20-minute workout at about 60% of the max flow in my trainer 15 deep and the build, parts, and insulation are better than those other two.

    Try this guy.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  347. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    Hi Elizabeth.

    The Master or the Marquis are good options, if therapy massage is important the Twilight definitely kills the marquis for performance, the 3.5″ neck jets flow crazy water and the diverter system for the big monster jets make it just a monster… I love those massive jets in the footwell, I use them for legs and lower back and float over them for shoulders the thing is just a massage monster.

    CSC is a mixed bag, the jetting is pretty pedestrian its certainly not a high-end therapy massage spa. the build is good and the electronics are good the jets a bad, they are an old style click in with the tabs that are notorious for failure. the insulation is pants.

    check out these guys:

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  348. Reply
    admin July 18, 2018 at 9:53 am

    Of that group, the tidal fit is for sure a better Swim Spa. That being said there’s a massive difference between everything on the marketplace and the Master Spas h2x and Phelps lines. Not only is the jetting a lot better in the massage seating but also the flow rate through the swim area is a lot higher in both of these tubs.

    And again the depth is a big issue. Master deep lines get you up to your shoulders in water with an average of 15″ more water depth, most other brands get you up to your belly button it’s a big difference in the usability of the spa for resistance training, swimming, and general hacking around your pool.

    try these guys I know the have service guys in your area as well…

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  349. Reply
    admin July 17, 2018 at 11:12 am

    No problem and happy hot tubbing!

    hit me up if you have issues or need help

  350. Reply
    admin July 17, 2018 at 11:10 am

    Hi Andrew

    I don’t know the other two dealers, I do like PW I know the guy that runs it and some of the staff, it’s a safe buy. Also if your going hi end the Twilight is untouchable for performance by the other two brands

  351. Reply
    admin July 16, 2018 at 10:59 am

    Hi Mario

    Vap loc is cheap, get full foam or stay away and make sure the full foam is the type that does not harden. I would not spend the money on ozone, just use either spa marvel or aquafinesse.

    hit up this guy and look at the clarity and getaway hot tubs…

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  352. Reply
    admin July 16, 2018 at 10:53 am

    Rome pool and spas sell Marquis which is a decent build, I got a guy in Syracuse that sells tubs all across the state he has service guys in the area and he has been great, no issues and lots of customers he has helped.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  353. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:39 am

    Dude strong is just cheap .. this video is a strong spa…

    go see these guys, you are better off with a getaway hot tub.

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    4.1View in Google Maps

  354. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:36 am

    Hi Laura

    The Marquis for sure, the rest are not anywhere near as good build quality.

    But… you live in Fort Wayne that is the headquarters for master….

    I’ll put you in touch with the factory they might sell you a second direct…

  355. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:34 am

    Freestyle hot tubs are built by sunrise in Grimsby Ontario, run of the mill I would not shortlist it, Roxull insulation is approved for houses in 6″ thick batons in cold climates so why would 2″ be good in a hot tub??? if its not good enough in a highly regulated industry like home building than its simply not good enough for your house… plus steel frames are bad go timber it lasts longer and is as strong or stronger, has a higher thermal coefficient and is quieter…

    dude go see this guy he sells more hot tubs in Canada than anyone and he is right in your backyard…

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6, Canada
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  356. Reply
    admin July 15, 2018 at 9:28 am

    Hi Michael

    Loungers are funny first-time buyers buy them second-time buyers don’t. in dryland they are great but when you are floating not so much…

    try these guys

    Home Innovations Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2001 NE-2, Lincoln, NE 68502
    spasonline.com
    +1 402-421-2922
    4.8View in Google Maps

  357. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 5:25 pm

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

    Rome Pool & Spas
    Approved: Marquis
    Not Approved: Saratoga
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1513 E Dominick St, Rome, NY 13440
    http://www.romepoolandspas.com
    +1 315-336-6900
    3.0View in Google Maps

  358. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    Hey Justin

    Coast is a good brand Im going to see the factory next week hopefully but they do all the right things.

    check these guys out as well they do master, one of my goto brands and i know the dealer…

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.1View in Google Maps

  359. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 5:21 pm

    Coast – CK Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    214 Rue Poirier, Saint-Eustache, QC J7R 6B1, Canada
    http://www.ckspas.com
    +1 514-701-4950
    4.1View in Google Maps

  360. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    Hi Robyn

    Sundance, Arctic, Hot Springs all have goofy proprietary parts that alone would make me run for the hills, watch this video for an explanation. personally I would not touch this spa with a 10-foot pole, esp the Arctic, cheap insulation, and no clamps on the plumbing on top of the goofy parts.

    Hydropool has good parts but a cradle supported shell and the insulation is a joke… this shit was basically banned in house construction in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulation in hot tubs πŸ™‚ read this review…

    The beachcomber is well built but overpriced and low performance, they don’t make anything in the hi-end massage spas so if this is something you want then it might not be a good fit… read this review…

    I have a person I know well personally in Calgary, she has service guys up in Edmonton and I know she sells a lot of spas up there. She carries the twilights they will be around the same price but super good build quality and stupid hi-end therapy massage. Wet test these spas and there is simply no comparison.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9, Canada
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  361. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 4:19 pm

    it’s a big deal… I never would carry a line that does not use a good parts list.

  362. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 4:18 pm

    Hi Holly

    The two pump systems are actually better performers, read this article about pumps.

    I’m not a fan of loungers, second-time buyers almost never buy them. The reason first-time buyers go to them is that we are dry land creatures and in the dry land a lounger is comfy, it supports our weight and is nice but when you are in the water you are floating… You don’t notice the lounger and it takes up a lot of space and yer if you are buoyant then it’s even worse.

    If it fits the 8.25 is the tub I sit in every day and I can have anything I want for free πŸ™‚

  363. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 11:46 am

    Hi Ian

    Hydropool is a mess… read this: It’s not a good deal on a great hot tub its just a cheap hot tub πŸ™‚

    let me see what I can find for you.

  364. Reply
    admin July 13, 2018 at 9:31 am

    Hi Brian.

    I don’t have any dealers that I know there, there is an Artesian dealer and a Marquis dealer which are both solid brands, and there are 3 independent service guys registered there but I can’t speak for the quality of the dealer.

    there is a great dealer in Cleveland and I know they utilize the independents down there to service spas.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    http://www.bestbuypoolsandspas.com
    Owners private info:
    Ted Baily or (Dallas) 440-623-7554
    ted@leisuretimewarehouse.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    2.6View in Google Maps

  365. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm

    Hi Tami

    Neither are on my good guy list for totally different reasons.

    Maxx because they just not well-built spas, cradle supported shells, no clamps on the plumbing and cheap insulation that would never meet code on a house…

    Hot springs because of so many reasons but especially the proprietary parts, you really need to stay away from the brand s that make parts that just fit their spas. especially in places like LA where almost all of the retailers are dead or dying and you will likely have just service centers soon, independent guys won’t fix these goofy brands.

  366. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    look at the H2x Line, well built reasonable money.

    try these guys

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  367. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    No good brands at all but the Calgary dealer have 3 or 4 independent service guys up there to choose from, she can take good care of you try:

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9, Canada
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  368. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:46 am

    cool jet but man I hate floor domes… you trip over the damn things they are a big hazard that’s why everyone ditched them 20 years ago, dangerous and makes the spa an annoyance i swear when i had a foot dome in my tub it drove me nuts and hurt me twice.

  369. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:40 am

    I like the brand in general, but the swimmers while built right are a little goofy. the available swim area is small with those big steps in the way and the water depth is shallow. flow rates are not great you will need a tether to swim in it. you need to wet test these things there are massive differences in performance. and get a deeper one, the water in that swimmer is up to your belly button, get a deep one its a huge difference.

    The upside is I have 10 independent service companies registered out there. so you can easily buy anything that uses good parts and builds standard and be assured good on the ground support.

    let me see if I can find you something…

  370. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Sundance was recently acquired by the jacuzzi group. It’s a total no go for me because it breaks the golden rule of staying with a good parts list and staying away from a proprietary parts list here is why…

  371. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:24 am

    try these guys, they have several lines with good small tubs

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU APPROVED RETAILER

    When you buy from a Hot Tub University approved retailer we will stand behind you if you ever need help.
    Ben and the guys at East Coast spas have helped out a ton of people coming to this site. They do it all, Great Spas, great price, good solid customer care and experience.

    John sales manager
    Owner Dan Henry
    Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    3.9View in Google Maps

  372. Reply
    admin July 12, 2018 at 11:17 am

    Hey Larry.

    Ok so from a quality of build standpoint they are all good but… LSX is master highest of 5 lines, the Epic is marquis highest of 3 lines the South seas is entry level for Arteasian…

    these are not similar tubs, compare the Healthy Living or Clarity spas from Master with the Tropic seas, go to Artesians Platinum elite to compare with the other two.

    Side note of all the spas the LSX is the only one with a great neck and shoulder jet seat the other two use low flow jets they are useless for big muscle masses like shoulders/neck and again only the LSX has the big monster jets for feet… also stay away from foot domes, they are dangerous, most companies got rid of them a decade ago they are a major tripping hazard and are a bad idea.

    Sitting in a dry tub other than for sizing is a waste of time. comfort in dry land is the opposite of comfort in a water environment… you weight like 20lbs in the water you don’t notice any of the comfort things you notice in a dry tub…

  373. Reply
    admin July 11, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    Coast and beachcomber

  374. Reply
    admin July 11, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    Lol that is a company I co founded with a guy named Troy Labelle back in early 2000. Frankly it’s as good or better than half the stuff out there. The insulation is crap but so are most tubs and the jets are an older bad design with the little tabs on the side. But unless your going to coast, artesian, master, marquis then it’s as good as most

  375. Reply
    admin July 11, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    Get a spafrog. Same tech.

  376. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    The only guy I have is David’s, he is great and I’m sure can service you there.

    hit him up.

    Davids Home Entertainment
    Call Monday for Chris Sutton.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.1View in Google Maps

  377. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    we do them in about three hours i can send you a plumbing diagram, should be under $500

  378. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hey Alex

    NY is a mess I have a real hard time there I got a guy a ways from you but he has service guys all over he might be able to help you man…

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
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    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  379. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    that area is wack there is hardly any retailer there but on the plus side, there are literally 20 independent service companies within 50 miles of you πŸ™‚ pretty much guarantees you great service levels as long as you stay away from the brands with all the goofy proprietary parts…

    hit these guys up they rock…

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
    View in Google Maps

  380. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    Hey, Chris, that’s great, information is power man!

    The base is fine especially if you are putting patio stones down… generally you want to remove the topsoil till you hit hard ground then put in crusher duat level it and tamp it and drop on patio stones. typically here we hit clay in 3-4″ so we put in 3-4″ of crusher, make sure the finished height is just above grade you do not want the pad to be the low spot…

  381. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Hi larry.

    its funny because we will in the more is a better world but I prefer the 8.25 here is why:

  382. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:11 pm

    Not really the jetting is a bit wack… sometimes they just throw jets in places to get the jet count up πŸ™‚

  383. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    refurbs depend entirely on the quality of the refurbisher a lot of possible issues but if done right they are fine.

    make sure they have a reputation, experience and a warranty

  384. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    They are adding it and I would order without it I am not a fan of the low flow circ systems.

  385. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    They are adding a circ pump I would order without it, circ pumps suck

  386. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    Hi Christine, check out the Therapool Deep… Built right insulated right great parts and there is a guy I know really well there called Griffin Ryan, he is a superstar, solid reliable and knowledgeable…

    griffryan@hotmail.com

  387. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    Man I got nothing for you up there, sorry

    the closest I have is this guy he might have service assets there ping him and see.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
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    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  388. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    I agree and 16k is batshit crazy, you are paying for their massive advertising and marketing and branding more than for any real quality…

    look at getaway spas Bar Harbour, 87×87″ 2 pump built well priced right…

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  389. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    No mass merchants are what they are, the product is too complex for them they screw it up again and again…

    South Seas is artesian, 3 years is standard, anyone offering you more than that has just built the extended warranty into the price, the guarantee is almost always more an indication of you paying for it than any quality issues Im pretty sure the south seas would sell you additional years for $200-$300 a year if you wanted it.

  390. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    sent a response by email let me know if you need anything else.

  391. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    Sometimes yes and sometimes know, I’m not a big fan of those brands though.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  392. Reply
    admin July 10, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    The New York market is a mess, no good retailer and not a ton of independent service guys. I use these guys they have helped a lot of customers all over the state for me and we have had no issues.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949
    4.5View in Google Maps

  393. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 1:03 pm

    Hey Jim I really like all three of those brands for build quality but there is nothing out there with the 3.5″ neck jet system and diverter for really good neck and shoulder care, On the twilight you keep the jets just above the water line, it splashes a lot but man does it pound your shoulders and neck…

    There are a ton of independent service companies out there, the local dealers are dying on the west coast, most of the tubs are being bought online or through tent sales and expos but that has simply traded local business people retailing with local business people servicing… The net result is you are still dealing with locals…

  394. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    The local dealers I do not know but the brand is solid.

    I have a superstar down in Houston and I know he has serveice there as well hit him up and see what he can do for you, let him know you were talking to me

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
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    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    3.9View in Google Maps

  395. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    Hi Ashlee

    The tub cooling is not down to the brand I would guess it was a plugin model or it was set to low current mode.

    there isa guy down in Miami that I know and they have service guys in your area. there is also an Artesian dealer Splash pools and spas in Jacksonville.

    try these guys

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps

  396. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 11:24 am

    There is a lot of no-go brands around you but only 2 I would shortlist.

    I also have 2 good independent service companies there and could supply you master in that area and provide a good back up and support. we are in Halifax and we sell spas right across Canada because we have a massive database of great service centers we can utilize.

    Purewater Total Home Leisure
    Status Unverified: We don’t know anything about the dealer but the Artesian line s on our good guy list.

    Sells Artesian
    Remove
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    2070 Robertson Rd, Nepean, ON K2H 5Y8
    http://www.purewaterpool.com
    +1 613-726-0099
    4.5View in Google Maps

    Beachcomber Hot Tubs OrlΓ©ans
    Remove
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    1993 St Joseph Blvd, OrlΓ©ans, ON K1C 1E5
    beachcomberorleans.com
    +1 613-837-2929
    4.9View in Google Maps

  397. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 8:30 am

    pretty comparable, mostly a performance and warranty difference

  398. Reply
    admin July 9, 2018 at 8:29 am

    Hi Brian

    Either will be efficient, they both use a full foam system and all spas reclaim motor heat effectively through the venturi or ozone system.

  399. Reply
    admin July 6, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    Hi Will

    Mainly a performance difference, they are built and insulated well they just don’t have the same massage performance.

  400. Reply
    admin July 5, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    20-years is not reasonable for pumps and heater, it is for plumbing if it is glued and clamped and for the shell if it is a hand-rolled self-supporting hull. you will burn a heater and or a pump every 3 to 5 years or so…

    There are kits available to reform the area, it is simple and environmentally safe

    15 vs 18 there is about 10″ of more usable space.

    Easy as hell we can drop ship it in year supplies are 4-month supplies. stay away from the salt and the other upgrades.

    get cover lifters they make cover removal easy.

    here are reviews on all three brands, the arctic is a swimmer, the twilight is the same build as the swimmer and the hydropool as well is the same build.

    Master review

  401. Reply
    admin July 5, 2018 at 11:00 am

    Yep good well built well insulated tubs, good job sorting the bullshit from the Bananas πŸ™‚

  402. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 5:35 pm

    Those guys have tons of bad rep. But in thier local market they are probably ok… you also have to consider they are the biggest seller of hot tubs in the world right now. They do expose all up and down the west coast. Most dealers do 100-300 tubs a year and if they had one complaint you would ignore it. These guys sell like thousands and thousands of hot tubs so I never can figure out how valid it is. Plus they do the expos so you get a lot of fake shit from pussed off dealers in the local markets the pound.

    The nearest other one is like Appleton or Des Moins… same with artesian and marquis… nothing close to you.

    You have to say 1-3ppm its health and safety and I dont recommend you ignore it. But in the real world I run my displays and personal tubs with eco pure, aquafinesse, and .5ppm and go 10-12 months and I’m a daily user.

  403. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    They’re all the same brand. They’re all part of the Watkins group. The biggest issue I have with this brand is the proprietary parts list, it’s never a good scenario. Here is an article and video on it

    Keep looking

  404. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    Not a big fan of Vita at all, thin shells that are cradle supported, an insulation system that would never meet code for a house, no clamps on the plumbing, and a steel frame which is nowhere near as good as a good timber frame. Keep looking

  405. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    To bring it underneath of a deck does definitely increase the longevity of the cover. But most of this is personal taste.

    I like to get under the stars but when the weather is crap I wouldn’t mind having something over top of it. I wish I could help you more on this one but this really is a personal taste issue.

    The only thing to really consider here is if you going to build it into a deck you want to be careful about how you do that. You really want to frame the deck at least 9 inches to a foot bigger on all sides and then make drop-in panels all the way around the hot tub so you do not restrict access.

    Also keep in mind safety, if your tub is sunk all the way into the deck it’s like stepping into a hole and if you’re drinking it is dangerous. I like my tub stick up 18 to 20 in, around deck chair height so you can sit on the edge get in and out easily

  406. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:24 pm

    Hit up Aqua Haven spas in Tulsa they can help you

  407. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    Yep it’s a good tub, it’s well built self-supporting shell with hand rolled fiberglass and a vinyl Ester resin core.

    The parts are good and the insulation is good, it’s all around a solid pick.

  408. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    Possibly call me at 902-576-5115 ask for Bill or Chris

  409. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    For sure go see Sean. at Valley Pool & Spa they are a little bit away from you but they carry the H2X line and there’s just nothing out there is built as well, don’t let him talk you into the Cal Spa line it is nowhere near as good.

  410. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    I would definitely go with the bullfrog before either of those other brands. Absolutely grind a deal. The low-hanging fruit in in negotiations is always the accessories. Hit them up for extended warranties cover lifters that kind of stuff

  411. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:09 pm

    Coast is doing all the right things from build quality standpoint. I would say those two tubs are on par so whatever your preference is. Coast has better engagement with the user though if you need support.

  412. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Bullfrog is a decent tub but even if it is a bit more Marquis a better product, I’ve been too busy to get the exact quotes but you should be able to call the dealer and ask yourself. Good luck on your hunt!

  413. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    I’m not a fan of vector 21 at all. There’s nothing special about it nothing unique and nothing different except for a bunch of words have been changed to fool people. And now all those parts are proprietary and impossible to get from anybody but them. With a small company like this is especially problematic if this line doesn’t pop you’re going to be screwed.

    The second thing is forget the stupid foot Jets. You need to flow so much f****** water through those things that unless you’ve got those monster Jets that can divert the entire pump to your feet you are never going to get anything from them other than a tickle they just don’t flow enough water period. Also, foot domes of the worst thing in the world every one trips on them and falls on them that’s why everyone got rid of them in the 90’s

    I like the Marquis from a build standpoint but there’s no good Neck Jet Systems on any of their tubs and there’s no good foot Jet Systems. The neck it’s got to be at least the three and a half inch mid flows, shoulder muscles are a big muscle mass those little tiny jets don’t do anything. A good foot jet is my best friend in the world, if you get a tub with the real massive jets in the floor I’ll sit down there and get my lower back done while using it for glutes, so using them for all those big muscle masses and feet awesome the rest are ticklers

  414. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Thought that quote was a little bit high at first but so Cal’s a very expensive area to do business in. It’s about right for the area.

  415. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Master Spas in this area are difficult. There’s a group out of Minnesota that does Expos there every month it’s basically decimated the on the ground retail.

    The upside to it is there’s tons of independent service centers on the ground they have grown over years and years of these expose tent sales and state fairs.

    Reality is the game is changing. And the Advent of these on the ground resources make it fairly safe to buy any brand that uses a compliant parts list.

    The problem is the most important thing for a customer care level is communication and information and lot of these guys just suck at that. Email me a Chris@hottubuniversity.com

  416. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    Man I’m totally with you on avoiding the American-made stuff from a patriotic standpoint and a damage to our economy standpoint. But…

    The only Canadian made swimspa I would even look at would be the coast. That being said the Master Spas are just so far above everybody else for flow rates, performance, for the massage jetting in the seats and for tons of other details, a 60 in depth is just such a big difference… It would be great if they were more comparable options but there really isn’t right now.

  417. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    I absolutely do not recommend the dynasty hot tub or Swim Spa. Go to the search bar and search Dynasty on my website. You’ll see the review of the one I tore apart here, then read the comments, you can hear about the nightmare guy who bought a swimmer that just fell apart. I verified everything to do with this, he absolutely does have that tub and he absolutely did get totally screwed with a tub that just fell apart

  418. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:46 pm

    Microsilk in my opinion is a gimmick. But everybody has their gimmicks πŸ™‚

    My biggest problem is that the parts are going to be problematic down the road. They’re not a big enough player to sell enough of these to afford to keep making those parts if that brand doesn’t catch on. It’s a big risk I would never put a brand on my floor that did not have a simple compliant parts list that I know I can get parts for ever. Plus I hate this proprietary Parts idea it’s all about Prophet down the road it’s all about making sure you have no options. Great for corporate profits bad for the guy with a hot tub in his backyard

  419. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    I think that UV sanitation is arguably one of the best solutions out there for an on board system. That being said I never advise buying any of the upgrades because the aftermarket stuff like aquafinesse is better than all of it. I’m running tubs with drinking water levels of chemicals using UV silver zinc ion and mineral salts, you just can’t beat that.

    You know I’ve never found proximity to be a huge factor on customer care. I know guys like me that sell tubs everywhere and have awesome customer care. And I know guys next door that simply don’t take care of customers.

    I have over 2,000 independent hot tub service companies registered with my site. That’s the only local thing that matters. The reality is great customer care is about communicating information and knowledge. You have enough independent guys in your local market that any dealer on the ball will be able to take good care of you. The actual on the ground service is such a small part of customer care the much more important part is all the little finicky things you need to know about on the way.

  420. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:41 pm

    I got to say I’m not a fan.

    Opened one up the other day in Atlanta and it had pet insulation with a couple inches of fiber? That would never pass code for a house in any Northern climate.

    It was a cradle supported shell which means it’s not thick enough to support its own weight, this is a short term Band-Aid and not a good long-term solution. The plumbing was not clamped and steel frames are not a good solution. They’re not as strong as a good wood support system and they rust and deteriorate and fall apart. Wood will last a lot longer, has a higher thermal value is a lot quieter, it is a better solution.

  421. Reply
    admin July 4, 2018 at 2:38 pm

    I rarely find proximity to be an factor for good customer care. There are dealers that do great job taking care of customers and there are dealers that suck.

    Features that I like on the LSX Spa that you can’t get on the Artesian are the monster jets where you can divert the entire pump to them and the neck jet system which uses all mid-flow jetting whereas the Pelican uses low flow. For big muscle masses there’s no two ways about it, flowing that larger volume of water really helps for long-term Mobility.

    I really like the Artesian Spas. I did a factory tour there in the spring. For a small operation is doing a good job. But there is zero factory support for the end-user so you need to make sure you have local support options.

    The long and short of it is the LSX is a better Spa but not by any appreciable margin on the fabrication end just on the performance. But do not order the Circ pump low-flow system on either Spa

  422. Reply
    admin July 3, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    I would go Bullfrog over Sundance. Someone petite is never going to fit well because they are all made for around average πŸ™ a good booster seat is what you want.

  423. Reply
    admin July 3, 2018 at 7:41 pm

    email me your phone number ill call you.

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  424. Reply
    admin July 2, 2018 at 12:17 pm

    Hi David

    It’s funny I want to recommend Marquis more but I have zero transparency from them , they never answer or return calls and I’m a guy who sold them a couple hundred hot tubs πŸ™‚ the rest of the guys I endorse have given me full access to their factories for verification and have given us great transparency, once we have this we can say for sure that what they are doing is sold until then it always a big question how much is spin and bullshit.

    The thing I like about Twilight besides the build is the monster jets and the neck jet system, they are huge for the message. man, I sit in the bottom of mine and do my lower back on those crazy monster jets and they just pound the crap out of you, and most neck jet systems are the low flow jets the TS has four of the pulse 3.5″ jets that flow a pile more water… The Marquis just don’t have those two features and I really do not like the foot domes, they are a pain in the ass you trip over them all the time its why most guys got rid of them 15 years ago πŸ™‚ plus those little low flow jets aren’t gonna do anything for feet.

  425. Reply
    admin July 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    HI

    Yeah, I like how they build spas I also like marquis, Artesian Coast, and beachcomber because they basically build the same way.

    Not a fan of the Wtkins hot springs group, they are better at making corporate profits than hot tubs, the proprietary parts alone makes it a big no go for me.

    The price is right and the TSD series is very very good but make sure it does not have a circ pump (little black plastic pump for filtration) they are a pain in the ass although the system can be replumbed easily for a high flow filter system…

  426. Reply
    admin July 2, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Hi Rob

    lots of time the swim current is not a big issue, loads of people just want a year-round pool and you are right you can save a bunch with normal swim current systems.

    So ATV I would say is above the ones you are looking at but you also have three independent service companies within 50 miles of you so if you stick with any of the good brands you should be fine for service.

    There is an Artesian dealer down by Columbia LMR Pool And Spa LLC cant say anything about them.

    Have a Boo at the residential version of the Phelps as well, the H2X line flows better current is deep, has an awesome therapy massage system for the Twilight series hot tubs and should be competitively priced.

    try these guys:

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure Inc
    Owner Adam

    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6120 GA-400 b, Cumming, GA 30028
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-888-3636
    5.0View in Google Maps

  427. Reply
    admin June 29, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    Hey John

    I’m not up on these guys and I never talk much about pumps because they are not a big effector, most pumps are like everything designed to fail they used to last 10 years now they last 5 like your appliances nowadays.

    The big cost effectors are the shell. if you are splashing a chop of glass and then sticking some 2×4 under it its cheap. if you are hand rolling the glass and doing multiple layers hand rolled its expensive as hell.

    Likewise, plumbing, if you are clamping 100 odd joints its expensive. then if you are filling the cavity with insulation… expensive… then jets… little ones are a tenner big one $35 or more, then plumbing size and fittings, efficient sweep angles are pricy and 2″ or bigger gets really expensive.

    Then there are parts, jets can vary in price by 30% electronic control systems by $300 -$500 and even pump motor combos, look at waterways pumps and you think it all the same? nope, one price for an Emerson motor, one for a GE one for a US motor.

    All together from the bottom end to the top end it can add $1500 -$2k base cost.

    So my angle is always simple, I want the guys spending the money on the spa

  428. Reply
    admin June 29, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    Hi

    Most tubs pressure systems are the same. but what changes is the mix of jetting. now a lot of people think the little jets are awesome because they feel like they are really doing a lot but the big hi flow therapy jets which move a lot more water are actually more effective for long-term muscle therapy because they move the whole muscle mass instead of primarily assaulting the dermal layer where all your nerve endings are.

    I have a great guy near you I know him personally and have seen his operation.

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    4.9View in Google Maps

  429. Reply
    admin June 29, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    Of that group, I would only look seriously at the Marquis.

    Here is my review of the Hydropool, not really a fan at all a lot of old tech being pitched as new tech and mid-grade fabrication in my opinion.

  430. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    PDC looks like they use gecko electronic controls man I won’t sell anything that does not have Balboa control and heating systems, they are the best by a huge margin because of the patents they hold.

    Insulation is very little but I don’t know about shell construction or plumbing.

  431. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    First for a good price point spa look at the getaway hot tubs, for super low chems and something that is good for your skin stay with the standard eco pure system then use either Aqua Finesse mineral system its used in hospitals to treat eczema with the combo of the eco pure, the mineral and the ozone I run about.5ppm chlorine and shock after use. keep’s the water nice and as low chem as it gets.

    Aqua Haven
    11083 South Memorial Drive , Tulsa, OK, 74133
    Phone918-252-7727
    Fax
    Emailryan@aquahavenspas.com
    Websitewww.aquahavenspas.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    11083 S Memorial Dr, Tulsa, OK 74133
    View in Google Maps

  432. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Hey Neal

    I’ve got a guy down there I have sent a pile of people to.

    Never heard anything but good stuff back.

    If you want legs and calf but not a lounger you need to get something with the big monster jets in it then you can sit and hang your legs in front of them and they pound the hell out fo your calves.

    The tub I have is the TS 8.25 it hits all the things you want, for me its all about massage and this is literally the tub I sit in every morning. here is a video review of it

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  433. Reply
    admin June 28, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    Thermo spas I’m, not a big fan of, it’s like most stuff, middle of the road.

    These cheap perimeter insulation systems are just nonsense, they talk about trapping motor heat but you don’t need all that empty spas to reuse the motor heat, the only reason not to fill the cavity is cost.

    The controls are good but the fact that they still use an air blower is a big warning sign. Air blowers are cheap systems that blow cold air into the tub (even the heated ones are too cool), they are noisy and are used because it ups the jet count and adds value when selling but the reality is no one really uses these anymore except usually mass merchants and online guys.

    The 10 year warranty is pro-rated which means you pay after the first year 100% coverage for the first (1) year, 75% for the next two (2) years, 50% for the following three (3) years and 25% for the remaining four (4) years

    Also, the labor aspect is only one year… You would be better with a 3-year parts and labor

  434. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    my goto brands down there are:

    Primo Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    I had the pleasure of spending some time with Vince and his crew recently. These guys are doing a great job in the customer care end and they carry my go to brands.
    Vince.Primo@yahoo.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    22315 Gosling Rd, Spring, TX 77389
    primohottubsandswimspas.com
    +1 281-466-2618
    4.0View in Google Maps

    Premiere Hot Tubs
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the carry marquis which is a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Burnet Ln, Austin, TX 78757
    http://www.premierehottubs.com
    +1 512-458-4772
    4.8View in Google Maps

    Austin Spas and Pools
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the Carry Artesian which is on our good guy list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    13748 US-183, Austin, TX 78750
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com
    +1 512-335-5458
    4.9View in Google Maps

    Ocean Quest Pools by Lew Akins
    Status: Unverified

    Marquis and Nordic.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2606 N Interstate 35 Frontage Rd, Belton, TX 76513
    http://www.lewakins.com
    +1 254-933-8370
    4.8View in Google Maps

  435. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    foam board is cheap crap with about R4 and costs about $100 full Icynene foam is like R20 and cost $450

    The epic or the LSX the rest I would not personally buy.

    Of those two the neck jetting and monster jets make the LSX my favorite, those massive monsters are insane i sit in the footwell and get them hammering my lower back

  436. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    The only ones i would even look at are:

    High-end competitive swimmers:

    Michael Phelps Swim spas, they are the swimmers you would find in the USA Swimming national team training centers across the US
    Endless pool – a decent second but now that Watkins owns them who knows, these guys traditionally are strong on branding and marketing and mid-on build.

    great build and upper mid performance

    H2X, these flow 40% more water than any other swimmer I have seen with the exception of the two above, the official swim trainer of Iron man

    great build but mid-performance

    Artesian – built well but shallow and lackluster flow
    Marquis – built well but shallow and lackluster flow

    Above all else get depth… I have had swimmer for 15 years for personal use, the biggest difference ever for usability and enjoyment was the depth, the 60″ deep models rule

  437. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    There are 2 independent service companies listed in your area with us so service should not be an issue.

    Price wise Expos are the same as any good high volume dealer and in some cases more than a good warehouse direct guy.

    These guys carry artesian which is also a well-made brand.

    Spa & Pool Center
    Status: Unverified

    The dealer is an unknown but the brand Artesian is solid.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8403 W Fairview Ave, Boise, ID 83704
    spaandpoolcenter.com
    +1 208-376-1514
    4.6View in Google Maps

  438. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    So I am really not a fan of Hydropool, smoke and mirrors, old regurgitated tech that the industry moved away from decades ago and an absolutely abysmal insulation system, that reflective stuff was basically banned in home construction as a primary insulator, it is good at reflecting heat but has no thermal mass and is crap at containing Beta into a system. All the northern US states issued a formal warning against using this in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulation system in hot tubs LMFAO. read this: https://www.hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/

    Freestyle is a no in my books, cheap insulation and cradle supported shell, its just like 90% of the stuff out there a bit of bad a bit of good and a bit of ugly πŸ™‚

  439. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:47 am

    The Marquis for sure.

    Caldera is ok but I’m not a fan of proprietary parts. you want a balboa heating and control system. im going to email you a link to a video I just shot 2 minutes ago explaining why. This is not a live video you will be the first to see it πŸ™‚ DO NOT SHARE IT!

  440. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Hi, Todd Whitby Ontario that’s old stomping grounds for me.

    I’m not a real big fan of the jacuzzi group. These large Equity investment companies tend to spend a lot of money on marketing and branding, that’s their Forte, it’s what they’re good at. They also tend to use a lot of proprietary parts and what this means is that they’ve gone over to usually China and had Parts made that just fit their hot tub. This puts you in a bad position. If you really want to build a great hot tub you want to make sure you got a Balbo electronic control and heating system it’s expensive but these guys own a lot of key patents that really make this product the number one position and it is miles above everything else that’s in the industry.

    When guys do this proprietary parts they’re not doing it to make a better hot tub. They’re doing it to cut the costs of production. And the worst part is they’re really doing it to trap you the consumer. If you’re using a good OEM parts list you have tons of options of where to buy it and it’s very competitively priced. When a guy builds a proprietary parts list he controls the pricing and you’ll find that typically you’ll spend 20 to 30% more for these cheaper parts that are failing more often.

    I’m really not a fan of this approach, I want to see a guy spending the money on the hot tub, not on The branding and the marketing and I want a good readily available at OEM parts list.

  441. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:14 am

    if its holding water sure fix it.

    these guys should be able to get you the parts

    Ajax Hot Tub Warehouse
    Marquis
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    322 Fairall St, Ajax, ON L1S 1R6
    http://www.ajaxhottubwarehouse.com
    +1 289-482-1203
    5.0View in Google Maps

  442. Reply
    admin June 27, 2018 at 11:12 am

    Hi Dawn

    The postal code you gave me doesn’t match, it says somewhere near New Mexico.

    I’m not really sure about the Saratoga line I haven’t really had time to look into it. I’ll try and get it on my list.

    Saltwater Systems are old technology. About 20 years ago most companies moved away from this technology for a number of reasons.

    When it first came out it was good because what it did was take us from 3 to 5 parts per million of chlorine down to 1 to 3 parts per million. It was a big advantage. but there were a lot of issues it was difficult to keep your saltwater levels balanced pH was always trouble and the reality was it was still just a chlorine or bromine system. Now in a pool, this wasn’t such a big deal because the chlorine levels of 1 to 3 parts per million we’re only on your dermal layer and your dermal layer can handle that level chemical. But in a hot tub where you are inhaling the steam, these kinds of levels are terrible. The steam is carcinogenic and the medical community is saying that there’s a lot of medical issues within inhalation of chlorine gas and bromine gas. The modern systems can get you down to drinking water levels of chlorine your water stays super stable it’s very easy to manage and it’s less expensive. This is the big secret that the hot tub manufacturers don’t want you to know because they want to sell you the miracle systems. Then they make money on you instead of somebody else.

    This technology is making a comeback right now and is being hailed as the newest thing out there and it’s just not. It’s outdated Tech.

    There’s also a big corrosion issue with salt, everything around your hot tub decking concrete everything starts to deteriorate very quickly.

    In my opinion, there’s nothing better right now than the mineral systems like Aquafinesse I use that in conjunction with a silver zinc ion and ozone and I run my yearly and just have simple easy reliable water this is the best way. read this:

  443. Reply
    admin June 26, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    He does not pay me anything for that and I was only in touch to follow up, never talk pricing with him I just went off what I know they sell for.

    pricing is always very location specific it cost a lot more to do business in some areas and things like factory duration

  444. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:59 pm

    Artesian for sure by a long shot, the goofy proprietary parts on the jacuzzi are lesser quality and you are stuck with them only for parts, the artesian is better in all ways and has a great parts list you can source anywhere.

  445. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    The CSC line is the best mass merchant spa out there but that being said there are some issues.

    If we forget the fact that it is made in China, the insulation is pants, its R-8 ish, and those reflective insulation systems were basically banned in the home building industry 20 years ago, now all of a sudden they are the miracle insulation systems in hot tubs πŸ™‚ the shell is good, the Balboa control is good and the plumbing is glued and clamped but the jets are the old style click-ins with the little tabs on the sides and these are notorious for failing. the stereo sounds like your phone speakers.

    The use air blowers which no one but mass merchants uses anymore they are basically useless and cost almost nothing to put in and it lets you make you jet count go from the 50’s to the 70’s and your pump count go from two to 3 but its all smoke and mirrors, for 10k you can get better for sure.

    go see krevco the can get you into a clarity or Getaway for near the same money and its a much better built spa

    Krevco Swimming Pools & Hot Tubs
    Approved: Master, Twilight, Clarity, MP Legend, Healthy Living, Plug and Play
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    700 Berry St, Winnipeg, MB R3H 0S6
    http://www.krevco.com
    +1 204-786-6957
    3.5View in Google Maps

  446. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:48 pm

    Hi Susan

    american whirlpool is mid-grade in my opinion, cheap insulation that would never meet code in a northern state for a house so it’s not good enough for your hot tub. no clamps on the plumbing and pedestal supported shell.

    Bullfrog is good and the only thing keeping them out of my tier one stuff is the ABS plastic shell, old tech moistly abandoned a decade ago because it just was not strong enough, they have to put props and supports under it to keep it from falling apart.

  447. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:45 pm

    The Master guys should sell the Getaway and Clarity lines, great entry level spas built right.

    as for sales forget it… its all bullshit, its a sales tactic called “creating urgency” the idea is you put it out there that the price is only now because they are “getting a rebate from the factory” or “it’s an overrun” or “an and of the line” its all bullshit, the price you can sell a product for is the price you can sell it for any time anywhere, in fact all the sales and events are even worse, common sense says if you have an event you have big added costs so how does that play out to better pricing??? it doesn’t…

    you can never get a better deal than a high volume dealer that works from a low overhead environment, simple, honest…

  448. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:41 pm

    I looked but just cant find any info on them and never heard of them of Hudson bay.

    as for the others, the Bullfrog is the best of that lot but not in my top tier because of the ABS plastic shell, these shells are old tech that most of the industry abandoned a decade ago, they were supposed to be a cheap reliable way to make shells and they ended up being cheap and high failure rate. they cant support their own weight and need pedestal supports to keep them together.,

  449. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 7:38 pm

    not up on the brand ill look into it

  450. Reply
    admin June 30, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    Good parts list and a good insulation system.

    But the shell… These ABS plastic shells made a splash 20 years ago and most people have moved away from them, they are a less expensive way to build a shell and the failure rate is a lot higher than a hand-rolled fibreglass shell. Most companies have moved away from this tech.

  451. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    Sundance is now owned by the jacuzzi group and the big issue I have is the proprietary parts. If you want to build a great hot tub spend the money on the great parts like Balboa, these guys have been building heating and control systems for hot tubs for 30 years and they own key patents that stand them miles above the other systems. If you want big corporate profits then go to China and get a system built that will just fit your hot tub, then you can lock the customer into buying those crappy parts for life at overinflated prices because they have no other options… if you stick with good reliable OEM parts there is always a good competitive price structure and lots of options and the parts are better and last longer.

  452. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    Sundance is now owned by the jacuzzi group and the big issue I have is the proprietary parts. If you want to build a great hot tub spend the money on the great parts like Balboa, these guys have been building heating and control systems for hot tubs for 30 years and they own key patents that stand them miles above the other systems. If you want big corporate profits then go to China and get a system built that will just fit your hot tub, then you can lock the customer in to buying those crappy parts for life at overinflated prices because they have no other options… if you stick with good reliable OEM parts there is always a good competitive price structure and lots of options and the parts are better and last longer.

  453. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    So they are now part of the jacuzzi group and the big issue I have is the proprietary parts. If you want to build a great hot tub spend the money on the great parts like Balboa, these guys have been building heating and control systems for hot tubs for 30 years and they own key patents that stand them miles above the other systems. If you want big corporate profits then go to China and get a system built that will just fit your hot tub, then you can lock the customer in to buying those crappy parts for life at overinflated prices because they have no other options… if you stick with good reliable OEM parts there is always a good competitive price structure and lots of options and the parts are better and last longer.

  454. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    Seems like a reasonable price, it’s too bad they don’t have monster jets in that tub or a decent neck jet system it’s like the kitted it out as a high-end therapy massage spa but skipped the 2 most important bits…

  455. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hi Steven

    its a good reliable unit but overkill for a rental, but again that depoends on how high end the rental is…

    reheating quickly is not a big issue its only 12 hrs or so…

    you could but a second heater inline or a gas heater on any tub although it might void your warranty.

  456. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    Those are solid pricing.

    its started as just doing it because I had the info and was so annoyed at the marketing misinformation, its a passion for sure, but now we do make money off donations and we will be seeling buyers guides soon, and doing big product review comparisons. so now its still a passion but at least I get paid for some of my time πŸ™‚

    besides someone is going to buy this soon the offers are getting high enough that I won’t be able to hold out for much longer, half the buyers in North America come here now for information before they buy, the big equity investment owned manufacturers are losing millions because of this site and they wont let that go on for long πŸ™‚

  457. Reply
    admin June 25, 2018 at 3:59 pm

    typical bait and switch. the American whirlpools(maxx, vita etc) are cheaper and nowhere near the build quality. if they can sell you the Maxx stuff they make more, disappointing that they are playing that game.

    I opened one up in January and was not impressed.

    Shell was thin and had props under it to keep it together, VS the master which is a hand-rolled self-supporting shell.. much more expensive to build the Master shell and way better.
    Plumbing had no clamps on it vs the Master with glued and Clamped plumbing
    Insulation was $100 worth of Roxul insulation (R-8) with a copper bi pet, dude reflective foils were basically banned in the housing industry in the 80’s and now its the miracle insulation in the totally unregulated hot tub industry:-) whereas the master is putting like $450 of Icynene foam in their which has an R-value of near to 20!!!

    There is not a single thing on the AW spas that is better than the Masters and lots that is a lot cheaper

  458. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    the nordic is a reliable build and easy to get parts for , not a fan of Hot Springs

  459. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    Yeah, Getaway is one of the best rotomoulded out there, reliable durable hand clamped plumbing its great.

    Soft tub is too expensive for a liner tub, no therapy massage and the low flow filtration means you cant use the really low chemical options. and goofy parts that are expensive.

  460. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:35 pm

    So, first of all, do not count on your hot tub being watertight, any tub at some point will leak usually from the pump seals but you never know so build a wet room with a floor drain.

    second the Beachcomber for sure, hand-rolled self-supporting shell and glued and hand clamped plumbing…

  461. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    American whirlpool is part of the Maxx Vita group out of Tennessee. I peeled open one in March and cant say I was overly impressed, thin cradle supported shell, low R-value, and reflective foil, and copper or mylar are all basically the same tech, this stuff was drummed out of the home building industry in the 80’s and now is the “miracle” insulation in hot tubs πŸ™‚ it’s cheap. even the plumbing was just dip glued, no clamps. it’s not a brand I can recommend its frankly what most tubs are… cheap and cheerful.

    Caldera is part of the Watkins group, Hot springs limelight etc and I like the insulation but not the proprietary parts! Man these guys who go and get parts that can only fit their spas don’t do it to help make a great hot tub, if they wanted that they would just spend the money on the good parts but they don’t want you to be able to cross shop the parts, they want to be able to control the parts and dictate the price and while that’s a great model for corporate profits its a crap option for the end user. I would never ever buy a spa that did not have at least a Balboa heating and control system in it, Balboa holds key patents that have kept them in the top position for decades.

    Canadian spa while being made in China is actually the best of the three, hand-rolled self-supporting shells, glued and hand clamped plumbing, and Balboa controls, but the jetting is the old click in style with the little tabs on the sides of the jet and the failure rate is epic on this type of jet and that can cost a fortune down the road and again the insulation is like the American whirlpool.

    These tubs are just like most of the stuff.. A bit of good a bit of bad and a bit of ugly…

  462. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Meh, not really a fan, a lot of really old outdated tech that they try and spin as new, and the insulation is simply the worst. in the 80’s when reflective foils came out, there were warnings issued by most of the northern US states. if you tried to build a house with this as your insulation it would never get a permit… the shell is a cradle supported shell and the only good thing is the Balboa control system, the old style floor suction (self-cleaning) and the old pressure filters are just nowhere near as good as the new tech… Read this:

  463. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    Meh, not really a fan, a lot of really old outdated tech that they try and spin as new, and the insulation is simply the worst. in the 80’s when reflective foils came out, there were warnings issued by most of the northern US states. if you tried to build a house with this as your insulation it would never get a permit… the shell is a cradle supported shell and the only good thing is the Balboa control system, the old style floor suction (self-cleaning) and the old pressure filters are just nowhere near as good as the new tech… Read this:

  464. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 11:27 am

    Hey Dude!

    I live there πŸ™‚

    I never get any local action on this site LMFAO

    The Arctic is all about the advertising, branding, and bullshit, too bad they aren’t about the build quality lol. its companies like this that made me start this site

    There is a Marquis dealer down in Fredericton, and A Beachcomber dealer in Halifax, and then me! all are good options but I dare say, I’m, the best lol

    Hot Tub Universe
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3 Holland Rd, Fletchers Lake, NS B2T 1J3
    wp.hottubuniverse.ca
    +1 902-576-5115
    5.0View in Google Maps

  465. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 11:24 am

    I got nothing for you down there other than the Artesian.

    You do have 2 independent service companies there if you want to call the guys down near Miami they might have an arrangement with these guys for service.

  466. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 10:13 am

    Ony one out there i recommend, they are solid people with good service and great spas

    They have a bunch of smaller spas in different prices starting with the Getaway Hot Hubs. The Healthy Living Spas, and the super high-end Twilight Series therapy massage spas.

    They are all super well-built Hand rolled self-supporting shells, Icynene insulation system (the most expensive system for a hot tub and the only one that would meet code for your house) top parts and hand clamped and glued plumbing system. The meet the Top 5 things you want in a hot tub.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  467. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 10:02 am

    Hi Tim

    Holy jumping man what a range of age for your kids… no flies on you dude πŸ™‚

    Pool guys are often not good choices for hot tubs, they make their money on pools and understand that they usually make bad decisions on hot tubs because its a bolt online they know little about, they also always screw up the chemicals because they think pool and hot tub water chems and priorities are similar and they are not. that’s why the usually carry the big heavily branded crap, they need the marketing and name recognition, these brands are never your best buys, or they carry cheap junk because they have no idea and again need an easy sell.

    Of the list, you provided I would look at the Nordic for entry level but for high-end therapy they really don’t build anything at the top end.
    Master specifically the Twilight is, in my opinion, the best therapeutic massage spa out there.
    The Marquis Signature series but they are seriously lacking and decent neck and shoulder jetting and man, as a 50-year-old broken guy I want monster jets with a diverter awesome for feet knees, glutes lower back etc. expensive option but critical.
    Just squeak through the BullFrog, again nothing in the crazy hi-end therapeutic massage but good all-around build with the exception of the ABS plastic shell, also their pods I think are gimmicky and have little or no advantage over standard well-built systems.

    The rest are either overpriced over marketed mid grade or just simply crapy cheap tubs

  468. Reply
    admin June 22, 2018 at 9:44 am

    Bullfrog for sure.

    Shell – Tie -AW uses a cradle supported fiberglass shell, middle of the road, BF uses an ABS plastic shell, middle of the road
    parts – Tie Both Use balboa heating and control system – Great
    insulation – Bf Wins! full foam icynene, AW uses radiant barrier and 2″ of batt insulation, Fail… It would never come close to meeting code in any regulated industry like the building industry for a northern climate.
    Plumbing- BF Wins! glued and clamped, AW just dip glues.

    You have 3 great choices around you that beat them all.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
    Carry Master
    Details from Google Maps
    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

    Patio Pleasures Pools & Spas
    Marquis
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    634 Struck St, Madison, WI 53719
    http://www.patio-pleasures.com
    +1 608-288-8220
    4.6View in Google Maps

  469. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    The full form is installation isn’t an issue if you’re using Icynene. Girl D1 used to polybase foam in that stuff hardens up like a rocks when you got to leak it was a freaking nightmare.

    The really good expensive phones never heard not been if you ever get leaked all you do is touch the phone find the wet spot pull all the way out form of the middle of the wet spot is the leak fix the leaking refoam.

  470. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    I never thought about that installation issue but you’re totally right. Initially as you added insulation around the piping you
    increase the surface area but you would not yet have enough R-value so you you would lose more heat but that would very quickly stop as you kept increasing the thickness he insulation R-value would far exceed the surface area issue

  471. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Hit up my buddy Dan Henry I sent this guy a pile of business and he takes good care of people and I know him personally.

    Dhenry@eastcoastspas.com

  472. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    What is a Castle Rock do a good job I sent you a few customers and haven’t had anything but good results so far. The Healthy Living wine is good for massaging matched up nicely with the top Nikes and Artisans Twilight series is kind of a unique animal there’s not too many tubs in the marketplace didn’t have the kind of performance this tub has and the reality is for a lot of people it’s Overkill.

    Have a look at the clarity’s or the healthy living on offer from the guys at Castle Rock

  473. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    It’s crazy how everybody else shoots everybody down. The Clearwater Spas are middle of the road, again some of the good some of the bad and they absolutely should be trying to tell you that Marquis line it’s a much better quality tub. A lot of times what happens is guys carry two lines like this and then they play one line off on the other one typically trying to sell you the one that they buy for least which therefore has better profit.

    You can’t go wrong with the clarity line their hand rolled shells self-supporting their full foam icynene foam insulation glued and clamped Plumbing and Balboa Control Systems. that’s all the magic and I’ve never heard any bad things back from that company to that sells them there in fact I have sent several customers there and have had nothing but good responses back

  474. Reply
    admin June 21, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    The biggest problem I have with that brand is that they use an inexpensive Installation System. And I do not think the shells are hand-rolled or self-supporting. I’d have to look into it more.

  475. Reply
    admin June 19, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    one of my top rated tubs, with the flow control system and the neck jets and those monster jets ion the footwell its just a performance machine, and they build right.

  476. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    Hey Lisa!

    Hamilton!!! my old stomping grounds kind of πŸ™‚ went to orchard park secondary!

    try these guys, great people and im sure they can help you there.

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie said in the last 2 years we have sent them a few leads that were 100 percent sold tubs. She mentioned in the last few months maybe 1 or 2. interested in knowing more about the program. Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
    Remove
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  477. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    Yeah the overinflated heavily branded lines… lmfao 19k forget it… you don’t need to spend that much and can get a better tub…

    Bahama I agree, and Strong is the brand from the viral video I shot I like the covers but unfortunately, the rest is a shit show. check this out…

    The Bullfrog is far and away the better of the lot. the issues I have with it are shell construction, it uses an ABS plastic shell. these were all the rage 20 years ago and most guys have gone away from them unless their factory is located in an area with super high environmental laws like CA. they need supports under the shell to keep them together and it’s just not the best way to do it. that being said most guys use cradles to support there is only a handful of guys doing hand-rolled self-supporting shells.

  478. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    Dude Marquis by a mile they are not even in the same universe. here is the review I shot on the strong…

  479. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    very cool I would not have thought there would have been issues at any size. crazy! thanks for the nugget

  480. Reply
    admin June 18, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    very cool I would not have thought there would have been issues at any size. crazy! thanks for the nuggett

  481. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:47 pm

    beachcomber of that group for sure.. they are a whole step above the other two you mention.

    check these guys out they carry getaway and clarity, great entry level spas

    Valley Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Approved brands: Master, H2X, MPL, Twilight, Phelps swim spas

    I spent 3 days with the wonderful folks from valley Pool and spa. These guys are in a class of their own and carry my goto brand Master.

    info@valleypoolandspa.com Sean, Sonya
    Remove
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    1659 Cary Rd, Kelowna, BC V1X 2C1
    http://www.valleypoolandspa.com
    +1 250-860-2266
    3.9View in Google Maps

  482. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:45 pm

    Hi Tom the shells on roto molds are damn near indestructible but you are right… most of the rotomold market is cheap parts and thin shells…

    look for Getaway hot tubs or Nordic spas… good reliable rotomolds.

  483. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:44 pm

    i would build a frame of wood or metal fill it with crusher dust or type one driveway and set the tub on it.

  484. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    its s hit show, everyone has their own song and slags the competition:-)

    My recommendations are consistently specific. – hand rolled self-supporting shell, full foam icynene, Balboa controls, glued and clamped plumbing, this is the most expensive way to build a spa the rest is bullshit marketing.

    Clearwater is middle of the road, Just the insulation is enough to make me run for the hills. there are no shortcuts or miracles… it’s crazy… we would never have this conversation in a regulated industry like the home building industry because we have codes to adhere to, these radiant barriers and batton type insulation systems used in hot tubs would never, ever, qualify anywhere in the northern hemisphere for home building so why should it be good enough for your hot tub which has a much higher heat loss due to the larger temperature difference? You want R-value!!! full foam Ivcynene if possible.

    It also uses a less expensive cradel supported shell

  485. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 7:39 pm

    Balboa is so far out there it’s not even a race, they own key patents that make it a fundamentally better system.

    as a retailer that sells 300+ tubs a year, there is no way I would carry anything without it.

    Il email you a list of the guys I have registered.

  486. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    I don’t have concerns with the parts list on this spa. I might have misspoken… its a good tub

  487. Reply
    admin June 15, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Wow an area I didn’t have data on πŸ™‚

    So I went through the local guys and you have the usual run of the mill stuff, and the big branded mid-range stuff, and one goofy operation that carries such a bizarre juxpostiton of brands that it makes me wonder… But they do carry the Artesian and the Nordic brands. Artesian is a great mid to upper end and the Nordics are great entry level. I’m not sure about the dealer Aurora Pools & Spas, they seem to be all over the place and sell tons of different products, sometimes these catch-all guys are not as good on the back end as a dedicated hot tub professional, and pool guys are often pool-centric as it is their main business and hot tubs and pools have nothing at all in common, even the water chemistry between pools and hot water are vastly different.

    There are 2 local service companies that just fix hot tubs, and a ton in Louisville, I assume you must have some big event sales out there we usually see these independents popping up in markets where these sales hor state fairs are selling a lot of tubs. Likely a lot fo the tubs there are being bought from out of the market.

  488. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    There is an artesian dealer near you Purewater Total Home Leisure and you have an awesome independent service guy 20k away called Sonshine, I’ve used him down there and he knows his stuff.

  489. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 8:09 pm

    I like the Artesian over the Marquis and if its all about the Hi-performance massage then the master kicks ass with the Twilight line, esp if you like the shoulder and neck jets, they splash a lot but man to they loosen up the neck area and the massive foot monster jets are great for glutes knees, feet, and the big tough muscle masses, I sit in the footwell and do my lower back and my hip after war canoe practice and it just mashes the hell out of you.

    There is also a gem on your doorstep, the guy at Sonshine hot tub service delivers and does good repair work so if you stick to good standard brand you should be ok.

  490. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:55 pm

    So I called and spoke to Mark the owner and here is the scoop.

    Gecko heating and control System, not my number one (Balboa) but better than the proprietary crap out there.

    Cavity insulation with Roxull R-22, Clear poly tubing on the entry level and nylon would flex on the higher end models not just glued not clamped, hand-rolled shells self-supporting.

    So it’s a mixed bag…

  491. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:30 pm

    Coast is good on paper but is dogged by a lot of bad PR, I spoke to 3 dealers here who used to sell Coast and dumped them one In Pei, one in Moncton and one in Halifax they all said the same, good spas but quality control issues, lots of stuff coming out with lots of little issues. The other side is I will not get 100% behind a line until I have visibility of the factory, if they are not willing to let me walk the production line then that is a big red flag for me. Its one of the reasons Marquis is only on my fringe and Master and Artesian are on my highly recommended list, both those guys were open and clear and gave me access to the factory and their people to talk to… Once I’ve done this then I can say with confidence what the reality is and what is spin and marketing BS. Its funny I toured Cal Spa factory this year they also do the steel angle iron in the shell the picture shows this massive thick chunk of metal the reality is it was tin and so thin that I doubt there was any real advantage and it was nothing more than spin… an excuse not to spend the money on a hand-rolled self-supporting shell… haven’t seen the coast shell production first hand but I wouldn’t be surprised if its the same…

    Coast I just can’t get behind them, I’m not saying they are bad I’m just saying there is not enough visibility and there are concerns with QC.

  492. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:08 pm

    Hey Jessie

    I have been to Golden when we skied kicking horse.

    The Beachcomber is the only one I would touch out there, I don’t even have any service guys there.

    get a leep (not hybrid) version. they are built well but unfortunately, BC does not do any real high-performance models but at least you have a good build and good parts list.

    If you had a local handyman we can deal with you could buy from out of market but its always tricky if there are not independent guys ont he ground for service.

  493. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 7:04 pm

    That area is a mess, just not any brands I like and hardly any dealers.

    These areas are primarily servic3ed by Expo sales, tent sales, state fairs and out of state purchases, it’s just too damn expensive for brick and mortar establishments so only the heavily branded overpriced crap has big enough margins to survive.

    In some markets buying local is key but in this market buying local is a mess and there are literally like 20 independent service companies that just deliver and fix spas registered with us right now. if you stick with a brand that is using the good standard reliable parts and the guys that sells it to you is solid and knows his shit you can have an excellent purchase and service experience.

    I just finished developing an application for the service industry and its just clearing beta testing, we have been using it here for a month and its solid as a rock, we are getting the local service guys onto it and it helps us control the back end of their business by giving us parts tracking and scheduling information and tracks all your history.

    Man Hot Springs and Jacuzzi are the 2 of the reasons I started this site, I was so tired of these mid-grade spas using all these crap proprietary parts and through branding and marketing selling them as high-end spas… I had the VP of Sales from the California office of both of these corps visit my tiny little store in rural NS this winter trying to get me on board cause our real information is costing them millions in sales right now. I would never get into bed with these big equity investment owned guys just too much smoke and mirrors bullshit, these guys are gurus at marketing and branding but pants at making spas.

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store down near Anaheim carry Artesian its the only brand I would consider locally.

  494. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    Doing this in situ is expensive and awkward and you would need to strip the shell to the base and put all new fittings and plumbing in… Man if you’re a project DIY guy it might be viable but if not this could very well turn into a nightmare… getting a good shell to housing seal is really tricky and you need a specialist and some luck… I would not recommend this as a viable option unless you can get a job price paid when its running and not leaking for a week.

    The other side is there is a great brand new shell that’s open and just has tons of room and it’s not an expensive line… have a look at the Clarity precision 8

    you can email me directly if you need help chris@hottubuniversity.com

  495. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    Hi Stephen

    Most spas have a lot of jets now so you will likely have more jets than you need.

    Hot Tubs Of Rockville sells artesian the Garden Spa Wisteria from Artesian is ok if you want a lounger and it’s only a 7 footer and I’m not sure of the dealer there and with artesian dealer support is even more important because the factory will not take your calls.

    if you want really simple and reliable and inexpensive the Getaway bar Harbour is going to be the best-priced unit and if you want a little bigger and higher end and massive space nothing out there has more usable space than the Clarity Precision 8, brand new shell design and its roomy and open.

    check out these guys Iknow them and send them tons of business and they are on the ball…

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood
    340-417-8728 kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands. because these guys are a registered HTU Allstar if you buy any of our approved brands from them you get the added security of contacting us directly if you ever have an issue!
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    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.5View in Google Maps

  496. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 5:14 pm

    My buddy Christian at Premium wholesale has a brother Griffin who does GTA hit them up.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606

  497. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    That Grand cayman at 6k is a solid deal i would push for 5k but its not a bad option for you.

  498. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    Hi

    I ignored the heat recovery because we were just talking about heat retention R-value.

    The motor heat recovery is another conversation entirely. My argument here is simple… both insulation types recover heat effectively. The gimmick is this… the guys not spending the money on insulation say its so they can trap motor heat and it does to an extent but there are 2 other factors in play… one there is not much r value so we are bleeding more heat, no arguing this r value is directly related to heat loss. Second, they are inferring that you need all this open space to effectively trap motor heat and that’s just wrong… you should fill the back three sides and all you need is the little area in front. the heat from the motor will get pulled into the water through the ozone and venturis. In fact, one of the calls we get a lot is my tub will not heat above 85F or 90F this is almost always a burnt out heater that is not tripping the breaker and the tub stays at 85-90 just poff the waste heat from the pump and this is on a full foamed Master…

    The other one is wrong I believe, although the surface area increases the heat loss decreases… so basically it works like this… every R-10 basically traps about 70% of the heat loss, so you lose 30% adding another R-10 would take care of 70% of the loss from the first R-10 so now we are loosing about 10% of the heat, adding another R-10 means we are losing 3%… so the laws of diminishing returns say that much more than R-20-30 and we are wasting our time… but these meatheads putting 2″ of roxul with a radient barrier ??? foregt it thats like R-7 or 8… def not enough… perimiter systems with 2″ of expanding foam??? same… r-6 or 7

  499. Reply
    admin June 14, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    Wow, great analysis.

    I don’t know the H20 im going to call them today!

    Coast is good on paper but is dogged by a lot of bad PR, I spoke to 3 dealers here who used to sell it one In Pei, one in Moncton and one in Halifax they all said the same, good spas but quality control issues, lots of stuff coming out with lots of little issues. The other side is I will not get 100% behind a line until I have visibility fo the factory, if they are not willing to let me walk the line then that is a big red flag for me. Its one of the reasons Marquis is only on my fringe and master and Artesian are on my highly recommended list, both those guys were open and clear and gave me access to the factory and their people to talk to… Once I’ve done this then I can say with confidence what the reality is and what is spin and marketing BS. Its funny I toured Cal Spa factory this year they also do the steel angle iron in the shell the picture shows this massive thick chunk of metal the reality is it was tin and so thin that I doubt there was any real advantage and it was nothing more than spin… an excuse not to spend the money on a hand-rolled self-supporting shell… haven’t seen the coast shell production first hand but I wouldn’t be surprised if its the same…

    so… H20 unknown I cant say but will call them and see what I can find.

    Beachcomber, nonhybrid great option but limited performance, they should do a high-performance model to add to their lines, and they are pricy.

    Coast I just can’t get behind them, I’m not saying they are bad I’m just saying there is not enough visibility and there are concerns with QC.

    – But I literally have 6 independent service guys within 30Km of you so you could go to any of the other brands and have a good reliable service level and if you have a good person to buy from it should be a no-brainer. I sell a fair bit direct into the west coast and maintain a 5 start google rating… Most of what you need form a dealer is information, knowledge, and advice, the actual on the ground service is pretty easy esp if you have the number of independents around like you do.

  500. Reply
    admin June 13, 2018 at 9:55 am

    Hi

    I have seen the Maxx and the Vita that they build (all the same factory) and was not overly impressed, cradle supported shell, batton type insulation, no clamps on the plumbing, steel frame… it’s middle of the road at best.

    You have a local marquis dealer and that the only one out there I would give a second look at.

    Marquis Hot Tubs – Beaverton
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    7170, 8775 SW Cascade Ave # A6, Beaverton, OR 97008
    http://www.marquishottubs.com
    +1 503-684-6110

  501. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:59 pm

    Yeah you have an artesian dealer and a Marquis dealer I would rate the Artesian slightly higher and I have visibility of them I toured the factory in January, small outfit but doing good things.

    Austin Spas and Pools
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the Carry Artesian which is on our good guy list.
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    13748 US-183, Austin, TX 78750
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com
    +1 512-335-5458
    4.9View in Google Maps
    30.45985, -97.79438

    Premiere Hot Tubs
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the carry marquis which is a good brand.
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    6415 Burnet Ln, Austin, TX 78757
    http://www.premierehottubs.com
    +1 512-458-4772
    4.8View in Google Maps

  502. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    Yep I like Nordic.

    They are roto molds and I’m going to be doing a series on roto molds.

    like the control systems the design, The build quality of the glued and clamped plumbing and the insulation while not my top is better than most.

    The Getaway line is basically a copy of their spa with everything except it has full foam, both are good buys.

  503. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    Buying from a non-local can be great or a nightmare depending on the area and the brand. stick to a good brand using good easily sourced parts and you should be fine.

    You got a guy in Fort Collins that service spas called All Spa Services & Repair I talked to the guy today he knows what he is doing.

    call these guys and see if they can help, they are a bit far away but likely have a service guy there or talk to the guy i mentioned.

    Aqua Spas
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    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google Maps

  504. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    Great Input Jeff Thanks

  505. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Of that group Cal is likely the best, I reviewed their factory this winter but the shell and the control system are not up to par. and you need to pay to have the full foam upgrade.

    Try these guys

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.

    Owner: Gerald
    Dealers #1 931-455-2500
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    507 W Lincoln St, Tullahoma, TN 37388
    http://www.hicespool.com
    +1 931-455-2500
    5.0View in Google Maps

  506. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    man your area is a wreck, nothing there at all that I can recommend.

    You do have a solid guy that does refurbs and service and delivery. I have a deal with him there because there is no one around.

    let me send you some info.

  507. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    Hot Tub Store
    They were super rude and was not willing to let me chat to a sales rep.
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    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.2View in Google Maps

  508. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:43 pm

    man if I was in the US and near the border, id go to Canada and buy the dollar is so strong right now you will make a killing. plus there is SFA around you there that I would touch try these guys… but do it quick before Trump builds a wall around us LMFAO

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie said in the last 2 years we have sent them a few leads that were 100 percent sold tubs. She mentioned in the last few months maybe 1 or 2. interested in knowing more about the program. Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  509. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    A bit but we took into account volume of sales but the numbers are still wack, and its on par with what have here, we had a bunch of hot springs and Jacuzzi and Sundance spas here then the dealers all dumped the lines and we serviced a bunch of them and eventually stopped altogether even offering service on the goof train brands because it was affecting our reputation, its hard to service these things because of the parts lists and the failure rates on the Hot springs here were epic… heater relay board frying all the time, the spa side controller failed so regularly that every one of the customers we had just given up replcing them even under warranty… its why they put the spa controller in the skirt, it cant take the hot tub environment πŸ™‚

  510. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    Yep that’s your nearest and I don’t even see any other good brands around you.

  511. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    OMG I need to set up a store there πŸ™‚ I have 10 independent service guys within 30 miles of Anaheim but only one brand I would recommend.

    There is a marquis dealer but the also carry Hot springs and caldera… lots of times when I guy lists a brand I recommend its just to get you in they try and sell you the other crap so be wary. With almost half the buyers in the US spending nearly a billion dollars coming to my site this year and around 5000 of you people spending around $50 million dollars asking me directly for advice we are seeing this more and more. I do not know this dealer they have never contacted us so I can’t speak for their service levels.

    if you want performance don’t look at the number of jets look at the size of the jets and the flow control systems.

    On small spas don’t go much below a 4 person there are loads of options but for the high-end therapy massage spas it gets pretty narrow.

    – If you want great neck and shoulder massage get a tub that has 4 of the middle sized jets shoulders need a good pounding and you need to flow a lot of water to get any kind of long-term improvement, most spas have 2 or 3 of the little jets. and be really careful because a lot of fo companies are putting big faces on the jets to make them look like hi flow jets but they are really just low flow with a big head… Ask them to take the jet out a low flow will be a hole the size of a big finger or small thumb the next one should be big enough o fit 3 fingers in.

    – For feet and glutes, hips and other big muscle masses you really need the big monster jets these are 10″ or bigger and typically have 14 or more nozzles in them and usually a diverter valve to allow you to put a whole pump on them…

    I just went through the lines from Artesian and they don’t do any high-end small spas, they only do them in their lower two lines and its all small jets, no neck system, and no monsters πŸ™

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Artesian, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling” you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.

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    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.3View in Google Maps

  512. Reply
    admin June 12, 2018 at 11:55 am

    Hi Danny

    Pricing is funny when we are talking about brick and mortar establishments the cost of doing business can vary dramatically from place to place. Things like taxes, rent and shipping can be big effectors.

    Those two tubs come from Fort Wayne and Las Vegas so shipping would much more on the south seas.

    I am assuming you are comparing to an HL 7.5 that would be very comparable performance and jetting wise these two tubs should be virtually the same price.

  513. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 7:17 pm

    Hi Michael.

    The Master is a bit ahead only on the shell. on all other fronts the tubs are dead equal, and yes the jetpacks are gimmicky AF, no advantage at all.

    The master uses a hand-rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell, its built like a boat hull and is robust enough to hold the weight of water and people with no support. very expensive to do this but it is the best. the BF is a plastic shell that requires pedestal supports.

  514. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 7:04 pm

    Both well built spas, But I know from your line of questioning that you have not wet tested them… performance wise fewer pumps are always better for a lot of reasons. first off basic pump efficiency says that a pug pump is 20%-30% more efficient than 2 smaller pumps and you need to understand that both of those tubs are using every amp of electrical current available so while we can do goofy marketing things like putting a 5hp pump head on a little 8 amp motor and then saying its a 5hp pump does not change the math… fewer big pumps is always more efficient and therefore more water flow read this article for more info:

    Diverters while a pain in the ass and noisy let you put more water to the jets. not only do you have more available power from the efficiency difference of fewer pumps with a diverter system but also the pumps are larger so now you can put significantly more water to the big monster jets and the main massage seats.

    But even if these two things were equal the jetting on the Pelican Bay is sporadic and kind of goofy… the only Hi flow therapy jets in the whole tub are all in the same position near your lower back… none in the upper back area and the neck jets are low flow.. the mid flow jets on the LSX neck jets seat blow them away and the way they set up the jetting with one seat having all hi-flow and one having all low flow Hi pressure is a way better arrangement.

    Then there are the foot jets… first off who the hell does foot domes anymore? these are throwbacks tot he 80’s and they were taken out of most spas years ago… they are a pain in the ass you will hate them, you are always tripping on the damn dome and it’s a big liability issue, The other reason why 95% of the industry has abandoned floor suctions is it causes a weakness in the floor both from a structural standpoint and especially from an insulation standpoint!!! Underneath the floor of a hot tub is very little room so we’ve only got a couple of inches of insulation under there, with a floor dome you need to put a fitting in the floor and then put a pipe running under the floor. There is no insulation now where that pipes running which means you are flowing all that hot water right across the cold ground and bleeding tons of heat through conduction. Most manufacturers have gotten away from putting any plumbing under the floor of the tub for that reason, also it’s the number one source of leaks because everyone is always stepping on the dome and it gets loose and starts to leak. The LSX has the monster jets and the ability to put a whole pump to them.. this is a $500 option and it is next level, I love the monster jets and use them for feet, thighs by kneeling in the footwell and even lower back.. you can put so much water through them its crazy.

    As much as I like the Artesians build and they really compete well in the mid and entry they do not perform like the really hi-end stuff.

    for me the LSX hands down.

  515. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Hi Mike

    My recommendations for swimmers are the same as hot tubs, they are the exact same build issues, same parts, and same concerns. The only thing that changes is the flow rates. now in the pro trainer section, the Phelps is the one for sure, this was not an endorsement deal this was a design and testing deal. I know Master worked with Michael and Bob Bowman his coach or years designing and perfecting the Phelps swim line to come up with a swim trainer able to be used by the competitive swimmers. The only other one anywhere near it would be Endless pools, but again its part of the Watkins group now and traditionally I have not been a fan of their business model from an end user standpoint, now from an investment standpoint they are likely one of the best but you’re buying a product, not shares πŸ™‚

    For the normal market again the H2X model is just in a class of its own, the flow rates are like 40% better than most swimmers out there and a lot fo the design features implemented in the Phelps trickled down to his line as well.

    The other big thing is the water depth. the shell height is 60″ but the big thing is it’s not a goofy scenario where they just raised the shell on a frame to make it look deep, the shell is the deepest out there by a lot, I get over 4′ of actual water depth and for resistance training and swimming that extra depth and hi flow rate is critical.

    There are literally 7 brands around you and none of them would make my recommended list with the exception of Pioneer with the Endless line.

    I have a personal friend not far from you and he is also the biggest seller of swim spas in the country.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    (519) 895-0606

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. cryan005@sympatico.ca

    Called twice left message.
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    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.4View in Google Maps

  516. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 12:01 pm

    Hey Tami

    That west coast is a wacky market.

    Hardly any dealers on the ground, I suspect the property costs have driven their prices so high that most people buy from out of state and event sales.

    I got a service guy registered in Los Gatos about 12 miles from you but no good brands in the area.

    There is an Artesian dealer in Santa Cruze but I don’t know him Artesian is a good line if and only if you have a good dealer because the factory will not deal directly with end users.

    I also have a great guy up in Sacremento and I know he does a lot in the Bay area but not sure if you are too far away from him or not, he won’t swell into a market unless he has coverage but it’s worth asking him the question.

    I’ll poke him and see if this is an area he can help in.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Sacramento
    Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas

    todd@sachottub.com
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    5640 Roseville Rd, Sacramento, CA 95842
    sacramentoswimspa.com
    +1 916-705-7727
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  517. Reply
    admin June 11, 2018 at 11:49 am

    Hey Arthur

    man you got like 8 local dealers but the only brand I would short list would be the Marquis from B & M Pool, Spa & Patio in Rincon, I cant speak for the dealer though I dont know him and with marquis im always a little iffy because the factory support end is pretty much non existant from my experience, we have left a load of messages both as customers wanting care and as me saying I have a custyomer for them and they never ever returned even a single call so you really need to have a good dealer. I got a great Guy In Atlanta but I’m not sure if he has a service guy down there or not, I know he will not sell into an area he does not have good backup in but it’s worth giving him a ring, I was down there in March and went to both hios locations, spent hours with his service teams, his parts guys and his staff. they have a great operation and really care.

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    the last 3 months we have sent them 7 to 8 leads and all but one were sold tubs.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    5.0View in Google Maps

  518. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 8:01 pm

    Hi Mike

    It’s a screwy market down there.

    One trend we are seeing is where these big shows have been running for years and years there are hardly any dealers left and tons of independent service companies.

    I literally have 7 independent service guys listed with the site in the area, the whole west coast is a very different market.

    It seems like most of the tubs sold around there are from out of state.

    The good news is you can buy any of the good brands and as long as you stay away from the brands with the screwy parts yer fine.

  519. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 7:56 pm

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys and spent a few days with them, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps

  520. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 7:56 pm

    Yeah thats about the right price, its a crazy tub.

  521. Reply
    admin June 8, 2018 at 7:55 pm

    ok so my goto guy is in Sacramento you also have a coast dealer near you not quite as good but a close second.

    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620 Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    http://www.sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.7View in Google Maps

  522. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    Hi Sam and thanks.

    I never hide the brand I carry in my local market, obviously, it would be one of the 5 I recommend πŸ™‚ for Me I would sell Marquis, Artesian, or Master, from a factory standpoint I use master because they have the infrastructure and range of lines and their swimmers.

    In fact 2 of the other brands I like and publically endorse are in my local market which kind of sucks…

    I am not a big fan of some expos, tent sales, and state fairs but that does not change the fact that 20-30% of the spas sold are from these venues and in some markets it’s way higher, so cal is like 50%-60%.

    The reality is the pricing at these events is similar to a good high volume retailer and better than the average retailer.

    My argument was with the false reports, and I agree that consumer affairs are questionable but so are all the others… You also can’t say a guy has more complaints than a local retailer (I know some local guys that have worse records) when a local guy is doing 200 spas and those guys in Minnesota are doing like 5000… I’m not commenting on them, in particular, I don’t really know them but if a local retailer doing 200 tubs had one complaint every 5 years that would equate to five complaints a year for a guy doing 5000 spas.

    The truth is in some markets (west coast esp) there are hundreds of independent service guys now that have been created by these sales and events, in So Cal, for instance, I would say that with real estate values there the out for town sales are better value, and with all the service guys around the service levels are pretty good I literally have 20 service companies in LA listed with us.

    I also have an issue with the idea that local means good, I know tons of shitty local businesses. The reality is 90% of what a customer needs is timely information and knowledge and that has nothing to do with proximity. If we have an area where there are lots of independent service guys from years of these out of market sales then the reality is there are a lot of people having good experiences buying from out of the market.

    I get it, man, I’m a small retailer and there are 3 events here a year, Hydropool does one and Dynasty and Master. I take these guys on and service them and get referral business from the customers and you are right, the price I see coming through my door is about the same as they could buy directly from me for but I’m low overhead warehouse direct and fairly high volume. because I take on the service for these events the truth is buying from the event (on the good brands) is as good as buying from me, but don’t tell anyone πŸ™‚

  523. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    Hi Matthew

    all the lines from top to bottom have the fundamental 5 things so yes. what really changes is the jetting and features.

  524. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    Hi Mike

    The guys at precision are primarily a service company, that’s where you saw the Arctics, the service all brands, its too bad they carry the Arctic. The Arctic and Hot Springs and brands like this are why I started this whole site. here is an arctic review

    I really think that guys using these proprietary parts and spending so much on marketing are just often not building great tubs, You really cheaper balboas heating and control system, way easier and cheaper to get parts for and much much better quality than the Invensys and no name systems.

    if you were going to go local go hot springs I guess.

  525. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    forget the garden leisure stuff its nowhere near the same quality.

    check out these guys.

    Aqua Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google

  526. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    Hi Sean

    good dealers in the right area can very successfully handle this distance. The truth is if you live somewhere that has a lot fo independent service guys then its nothing. The reality is most of what you need from a dealer is timely information and knowledge, only for the actual boots on the ground service do you care about proximity and frankly local does not guarantee you anything at all.

    Now this is critical because you need to have a brand that has a good standard parts list or you do need a really strong local dealer so any of the brand doing proprietary parts (which I don’t recommend anyway) would be a nightmare on a long distance deal.

    I like any brand that builds the way I know is the most expensive and reliable way to build. so master artesian marquis beachcomber are all good choices, I use master just because they have so much more choice than the other ones.

    you got nothing around you man I have a lot of if issues down there finding good choices, the guys in Syracuse I threw a few customers to and they seem to be on the ball. we even did some test calls asking for service far anyway and both times they were like no problem can get someone out.

    Concord Pools & Spas
    jeffk@concordpools.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    136 S Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
    concordpools.com
    +1 518-587-4949

  527. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    Hi Nir.

    More jets means nothing, size matters the big hi flow jets are the expensive ones and if you have a lot fo them you need flow control to divert the water to the main seats. full foam for sure… but it has to be Icynene or something similar so you can get access to the spa if needed.

    if it’s about massage, as it is for me the twilight from Master, is the tub hands down. its the best build, parts, shell, and plumbing system and the performance is insane… check out the video of mine that i crawl into almost every day πŸ™‚

  528. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    Hi Sheila

    I know these guys and met them a few times. they are one of the most awarded pool guys in the world, these guys are literally in a class of their own.

    I literally have 8 independent service guys in Vancouver. I think there is a big expo that goes there every year so there are lots of independents. you should be fine there.

  529. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    Hey Bruce.

    The cal would have been good because it used the Balboa control system and the right parts list… it’s critical I would not even consider spas using proprietary parts like the Hot Springs and jacuzzi, pain to find service guys who will work on them if your local dealer shits the bed and you just can’t beat the reliability of the Balboa system. Viking and Thermo, on the other hand, are not in my top group because of the build and the insulation.

    I like to stay with the reliable proven tech… hand rolled shells, the right parts clamps on the plumbing and a good icynene insulation system, its the most expensive way to build and the best. so master, marquis, beachcomber, artesian.

    try these guys

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4305 Northeast Expy, Doraville, GA 30340
    http://www.atlantaspa.com
    +1 770-939-8000
    5.0View in Google Maps

  530. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hi Tom.

    So the unit shuts the pumps off after 20 mins or so to remind you that you have been in for that long.

    At that time you should be able to turn them back on.

    now if you run a few cycles and its warm out it is possible that the motor is overheating and shutting down internally, its a protection system to stop the motor from overheating. It doesn’t come up much because most people use the high speed for a session then soak.

    so if this is happening on the first go through it might be an issue with the pump, but if we are talking about 2 or 3 sessions then its just the reality almost any tub will do this after a long session.

  531. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:43 pm

    Yeah, the UV tech is arguably the best onboard system but I don’t normally buy any of the upgrades for that because the truth is the standalone stuff is great, that tubs standard ozone and eco pure is good then just use an enzyme like spa marvel or a mineral system, like aqua finesse or Mineraluxe

  532. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    BF is not a nightmare brand, the only thing keeping them out of my tier one group is the shell. These ABS plastic shells need pedestal supports and are not nearly as expensive or as reliable as a hand-rolled shell. I do like the parts, insulation and plumbing system. I find it a little gimmicky, it’s very questionable whether the flow system is any more efficient, they do this thing where they say there is less pipe so therefore less restricting but they don’t mention that almost all the pipe they have reduced is in parallel so it really has zero difference there.

    Not much around you dude.

    You do have Marquis and master in Dallas. ping them and see if they have service in your area.

    Try these guys

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    tim@atlasspas.com
    Remove
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    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004
    4.8View in Google Maps

  533. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    So that’s part of the Fonteyn group I think my buddy Dolf is part of it. cant see much except that they have mylar insulation, cheap and not used in any regulated industries as a primary insulator, you could not use it in a house where you live because you would never get a building permit. Michigan requires R-20 I think and this stuff is like R 2 or3

    try these guys

    Master Spas of West Michigan
    Master Spas Of West Michigan
    2055 28th St Se, Grand Central Plaza, Grand Rapids, MI, 49508
    Phone: 616-475-7770
    mrspas01@aol.com
    Remove
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    2055 28th St SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49508
    http://www.masterspasgr.com
    +1 616-475-7770
    4.8View in Google Maps

  534. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    Hi Jane

    Go used and simple.

    if you find something open it and look at the equipment area, shoot a video of the interior and email me the video, shoot in between the pump and the motor and generally pan around inside and in the interior.

  535. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    hey jeff

    I do know it well only because I got a friend I have known for a long time there.

    It’s a funny Market Calgary, loads of retailers but only 2 brands I like. there is SML who do beachcomber and if you stay away from the hybrid option and if you are looking for middle fo the road performance its a good option but they don’t do any of the really high-end therapy massage spas, their top tub has 4-5 of the good jets, and mostly the little cheap pones and no flow control because you don’t need it when you don’t have a pile of the expensive therapy jets.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
    I know Jacqueline well and we work closely together, she has helped out a lot of people for me.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  536. Reply
    admin June 7, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    usually, there is no warranty on a used spa, some manufacturers will let you transfer it but most won’t.

    Now used guys will often offer their own warranty but unless they are well established and have 5 years of trading history or more then that’s very questionable.

  537. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    Hi Rowan

    so first off the Cal spa is by far the better of those two I inspected the factory there this year and the only things keeping them out of our good guy list is the cradle supported shell and now on the spas, they are not using Balboa and the full foam is an upgrade.

    so… if you buy cal say you want the better control (Balboa) and the full foam upgrade. Jacuzzi I do not like at all.

    I also have 7 independent service guys registered there, most of the spas in So Cal are bought from out of the market, the retail costs are just too high, you pay a couple grand more from local retailers and with all the service guys there you can get better service buying from us.

    Here is an article on all the magick like ozone and UV. They are all ok but the aftermarket stuff beats them all so don’t buy and chemical reduction bullshit.

  538. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    Hey Kendal.

    Hard to say, man, they are a nightmare to work on from what I hear but man if its running go with it and see.

  539. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    this is an easy one πŸ™‚

    Sunteck down there has literally taken care of 20-30 customers for me this season and they do a great job.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master
    sales@suntekonline.com
    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
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    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.2View in Google Maps

  540. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    Hi Christopher

    So most tubs are pretty smart in so much as they will run themselves and the easiest systems are usually aftermarket stuff anyway πŸ™‚

    try these guys, its the best stuff around you by far.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle thespashopil@gmail.com
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    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

  541. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Of that group, the Nordic is the best.

    There is an Artesian dealer not too far away fox hot tubs in Edwards.

    About 100 miles away there is a good Master dealer. and there are three independent service guys out there so if you stick with a good spa with standard parts you should be fine.

    I can hook you up with service guys down there as well.

    Aqua Spas
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    5050 Factory Shops Blvd #1010, Castle Rock, CO 80108
    http://www.aquaspasinc.com
    +1 303-663-9922
    4.4View in Google Maps

  542. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    Hey dude

    Yeah I know sunrise well, they are from my hometown of Grimsby Ontario πŸ™‚ and jack the owner I know well.

    the shell is cradle supported and they use 2″ of batton insulation… house building code in your area say 6″ of that batton insulation is good if it’s not good enough for local building code it’s not good enough for your hot tub. … so no I cant get behind it.

    dude pop over the border πŸ™‚ your yankee bucks are worth a lot more.. hit these people up

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2 Niagara Hot Tubs
    227 Bunting Road Unit F, St. Catharines, ONT, L2M 3Y2
    Phone: 905-684-0770
    info@niagarahottubs.com
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com

    Debbie said in the last 2 years we have sent them a few leads that were 100 percent sold tubs. She mentioned in the last few months maybe 1 or 2. interested in knowing more about the program. Debbie is the owner and her email is info@niagarahottubs.com
    Remove
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    227 Bunting Rd Unit F, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    View in Google Maps

  543. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    you can flip the spa on the side to go through the doorway πŸ™‚

    The problem with the little spas is if you put two people in them the water goes over the side… Get something wider (4 person) then just flip it on its side to get it in.

    Of the ones you mention only the Artesian garden, Azalia would I even consider.

    go look at the getaway spas, they have a lovely 4 person and you could look at the HL’s as well for comparison.

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    http://www.crockersales.com
    Rick Wright Customer retailor specialists
    rw@crockersales.com
    Dealers # +1 781-933-2006
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    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.4View in Google Maps

  544. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:31 pm

    Hey John

    When I toured the factory this winter my big concern was they were building the entry level lines to a lower spec. they seem to have a good build quality right across the board.

    I would have a look at the Clarity or getaway lines from these guys it will compare nicely.

    Leisure Works, LLC
    leisureworksaa@aol.com
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    5204 Jackson Rd b, Ann Arbor, MI 48103
    http://www.poolandspasale.com
    +1 734-668-7665
    4.2View in Google Maps

  545. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:25 pm

    naw it will be the same spec the only difference will be the electrical will be for European.

  546. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:23 pm

    often not, some guys let you transfer the warranty most don’t. what kind of spa and how much?

    email me

  547. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    LOl no problem Bob!

    πŸ™‚

    have a great day and happy hot tubbing!

  548. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    depends on the area, if I have good service there I will sell direct.

    ill email you the details.

  549. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:20 pm

    Sure man il email you my number.

    depends where you are but at 8k the big mistake is tot ry and get to much… you need to stay simple and reliable at that price most of the stuff at that price is flashy crap.

  550. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    Hi Amanda

    Watkins is a big equity investment company, lot of goofy proprietary parts. Not a fan of the company at all. the Master, on the other hand, is in my tier, one group.

    the insulation is important but the bigger issue I would have with the Watkins stuff is the parts they use, they make them to just fit their tub instead of buying the good reliable parts in the market. good for corporate profits because they own your ass for ever for parts but bad for you… you want a spa with good reliable easy to source parts.

  551. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:15 pm

    yeah, that should be fine. it really does not matter when you set it up to run. typically the idea is 2-4 hrs a day spaced 12 hours apart.

  552. Reply
    admin May 31, 2018 at 5:13 pm

    Hey Sheri

    So the rule of thumb is to ignore the sales bullshit and look at the code for a home in your area, for NL the code is Minimum R-20. the beachcomber would be there and the Masters but the Arctic would be around R-8 and the Candian spa co around R-6… just because some marketing meathead at a hot tub company says the insulation is revolutionary or new tech means squat.

  553. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:25 am

    Hi Calvin.

    You are so right, the marketing and branding is crazy good, even with the knowledge I have I still look at the really great marketing and feel all warm and fuzzy… these bastards prey on people by tricking, and taking little nuggets of truth and spinning them into monster messes…

    The Ladies down at Empress spa are my gogto down in Calgary.

    Empress Hot Tubs & Swim Spas
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    1502 Meridian Rd NE, Calgary, AB T2A 2N9
    empresshottubs.com
    +1 403-457-5774
    4.4View in Google Maps

  554. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:19 am

    HI Elizabeth.

    I have a super guy down there! YAY all morning I have had people in areas I didn’t have much help for but these guys have helped a lot fo, my customers, out and never have we had any issues.

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    tim@atlasspas.com
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    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004
    4.8View in Google Maps

  555. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:14 am

    Hi Warren.

    Pool guys don’t usually know much about hot tubs, their main business is pools and the fact that have good pool business doesn’t mean they are good at hot tubs. its funny pools and hot tubs are not even in the same galaxy, the parts, chemistry everything is vastly different. Vits is American whirlpool, who makes cal cooperage and Maxx. I opened up one recently and there is no way this brand will ever be on my recommended list, steel frame, cradle supported shell, no clamps on the plumbing, and cheap insulation make this an absolute no go for me. Jacuzzi, on the other hand, is the parts… never get your self into a position where you have only one source for parts, you really want a Balboa system its much much better quality and super competitive for parts.

    South East Spas
    Have met these people several times and they are good solid reliable people, by from them and get hot tub university approved on the invoice and then you can always fall back on us if need anything.

    Steve is the operation sales manager,

    Details from Google Maps
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33409
    southeastspas.com
    +1 561-328-3379
    4.6View in Google Maps
    26.70634, -80.09953

  556. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 11:01 am

    Hi Tracy

    so first lets look at the brand then the performance of the models. all of these spas are built well in theory but where guys like Master (TS and LSX) and Artesian have opened their whole operation to our inspection we have seen the factory end to end and had 100% visibility Marquis doesn’t even return calls and there is no visibility of the manufacturing so I cant say for sure.

    Performance. First of all more pumps does not mean better performance, in fact, the science says the opposite is true. Big motors and pumps have much higher efficiency and a 2 pump spa will outperform a 3 pump spa in most casesgetall those models I actually prefer the TS 8.2 and so does consumer diget the 8.2 wins the best buy award over the 8.3 every time.

    next look at jets… the little jets are cheap and flow low volumes of water, the big ones are expensive and flow high volumes and are the better massage jets for long-term therapy value. I want at least one seat with al high flow jets and the ability to put a whole big pump to just that seat. the Show only has 7 of these good therapy jets and the rest are the cheap low flows… the TS and the LSX have one main seat all with Hi flows and in the case of the TS almost all the jets are the high flow therapy jets, these jets don’t feel as harsh and because of the higher volume of water it moves the whole muscle mass and give better long-term effects. Then there are the big monster jets in the TS and LSX these are awesome! you can put a whole pump on them and for lower back feet legs etc they are insane..So in my yard, i have a TS 8.2 and in my opinion, its one of the best therapy massage spas out there.

    Expo pricing is on par with any good high volume dealer.

  557. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 10:47 am

    The only brand they carry that i can endorse is the Nordic and thats only in my tier 2 entry level class.

  558. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 10:39 am

    Hi Andy

    I had the chance to have a quick look at the inside of a Vita and I was not impressed thin metal frame, no clamps on the plumbing, a cradle supported shell and a goofy low-cost insulation system that would never meet code for a home. You know its madness, we would never be having this conversation about insulation in the housing industry because you simply would get a permit, and just because some meathead marketing group is selling this crap in hot tubs as the newest tech in no way changes the fact that in the 80’s and 90’s your state issued warnings about reflective foils.

    Hot Springs is overpriced, their marketing budget takes this tub from where it should be in the middle range to the high end, the control system alone makes it a no-go for me, thats invensys system has had massive heater relay board failures, ton sof spa side controller failures (its why they put the control on the outside its the only way they can get it to work reliably as it cant survive the harsh conditions inside πŸ™‚ I really really am adamant that in no way ia it a good idea for the end user to have a product that has gone and made parts to only fit thier hot tub instead of using the really good repliable redily available and competitvely priced top oEM parts. I want parts I can get anywhere are going to be reliable and competitively priced.

    Man, I can’t find anything close to you down there at all I got a guy 150 miles away and he does do a lot of business in and around the area ping him and see if he has service down there.

  559. Reply
    admin May 28, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Hey Doug

    The Bullfrog is not a bad tub and a lot better than some, and that price is good. the insulation is good parts good, just the ABS shell I really am not a fan of, honestly the biggest issue I have with it is all the BS marketing about the efficiency of the plumbing and the goofy pads which add zero value and restrict where jets can go.

    Russos pools and spas do Marquis which is just in my top brand list but I don’t know anything about them, you also have Kelly and Michele down at the spa shop, they carry the Masters same insulation and parts as the BF but a much better shell.

    Spa Shop
    Kelly and Michelle
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9013, 6276 Logan Ave, Belvidere, IL 61008
    http://www.thespashop1.com
    +1 815-547-1004
    5.0View in Google Maps

  560. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 6:24 pm

    Hi Guys.

    That’s the old stomping grounds I got a good friend down there that can help you, his name is Griffin Ryan and he and his brother are the biggest dealers in Canada. Grif is a great guy and has great customer care.

    u also have AquaPRO Pools & Hot Tubs, in Newmarket that carry Artesian another good brand although I don’t know the dealer, the only thing with Artesian is there is zero factory support so it’s critical to get a great dealer. Ajax Hoit Tub warehouse also carries Marquis which is not quite as good as the master and Artesian.

  561. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    Hey Jon

    Tidal fit from a build standpoint is good. That 12-foot model is a funny layout, they wasted so much space with eh filters and the goofy little seat at the end then they put two full seats and steps… There is just no room in the damn thing. they should keep the smaller spas open more.

    So Cal is a very unique market, very few retailers on the ground for the population size, and literally dozens and dozens of independent service guys. let me have a look and see what I can find.

  562. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    Good advice and you are right a good dealer goes a long way.

    there is 0 difference in the water quality, all spas filter water very well and all it does is removes debris, I just don’t like the old pressure filter systems because they filter after the equipment and that just means all the debris goes through the pumps and heater before being cleaned.

  563. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    plus taxes.

  564. Reply
    admin May 27, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Hi Mike

    Good selection the Wish is a nice spa, I have a Hot Springs coming here gonna do a video on it… Thinking I might cut it up with a chainsaw πŸ™‚

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Kevin Greenwood kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    Master spa Micheal Phelps. Sam Greenwell daughter. I have spent me than a few days with Kevin the owner over the years and these guys run a great program and carry one of my favorite brands. because these guys are a registered HTU Allstar if you buy any of our approved brands from them you get the added security of contacting us directly if you ever have an issues!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.6View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  565. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    OK

    So R-value is a measurement of heat loss (or resistance to heat loss), it’s a scientific standard which means it is real and not just marketing speak.

    The higher the R-value the better and its the only thing that really matters, the rest of the talk is marketing words, they talk about radiant heat, or thermopane, or any of the other stupid pseudoscience things. In the house building world, we don’t have these conversations because there are standards and if you do not have a high enough R-Value (R15-20 in northern states) you simply can’t get a building permit.

    It easy to figure out the R-value but for the layperson simply put you want as much insulation in the hot tub as possible, when they start talking about windows, and thermopane and radiant heat and trapping motor heat its all bullshit, you can effectively trap and reuse the motor heat with just the front area open, the rest of the spa should be full of insulation.

    By the way, the cheapest insulation to make is radiant foils, the second cheapest to make is perimeter insulation the most expensive by about 200-300% is full foam like Icynene.

  566. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    Hey Andy

    Sorry for the delay (and the delay for the next 4 posts) I had to research your area, just could not find anything I really liked down there. then I found these guys below, they carry artesian. I can’t speak to the reliability of the dealer and in this case dealer is important, I have almost no independent service guys down there.

    I tried calling these guys to gauge their knowledge and got a machine, the close Sat at 2 pm…

    And they don’t have their email posted on the website πŸ™‚ a form you have to fill out! OMG, they should hire me to fix their shop, maybe I should do a ho tub rescue show LMFAO.

    Parkway Pools & Spas
    http://parkwaypoolsspas.com/spas/
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1708 Vestal Pkwy E, Vestal, NY 13850
    parkwaypoolsspas.com
    +1 607-754-2500
    3.2View in Google Map

  567. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 11:44 am

    both are well-made spas, both are very small factories and both have really bad communication, it was 4-5 calls to actually get someone and no one returned calls. I stand behind the Artesian more so because of their openness. I went to Vegas and toured their factory and they were open and honest, Marquis won’t let me near the place, always a red flag for me when a guy that sells you 200+ spas a year doesn’t even get his calls returned πŸ™‚

    You also have 3 independent service guys around you that I have registered on the site, we see this a lot on the west coast, most of the spas out there are not bought from local shops they are bought from out of state and this has created a rich resource of independent service guys. as long as you stay away from the goofy brands like hot springs and Jacuzzi, arctic etc.. the guys using goofy parts that only for their spas, you can buy anything.

  568. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 11:29 am

    Tropic seas for sure, Artesian builds a good hot tub.

  569. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 10:49 am

    TS 7 in Canada anything under $12500 is good.
    8 footers add a grand.
    that should be delivered with a step a cover and a lifter

    don’t do concrete it’s overkill do a patio stone base, $800

    No by it stock standard and use aquafinesse or spa marvel.

    No generally the pricing at the shows is the same as a good high volume dealer.

  570. Reply
    admin May 26, 2018 at 10:44 am

    ok so there is very little info available from a constructions standpoint but right off they have a goofy proprietary control and heating system and that’s a big issue, I want a Balboa system, they are expensive but super reliable and easy to source parts for.

    the insulation is 2 cm… that would never meet code where you live its like R4 you want like R-10 at least for your climate.

    Performance wise it looks ok, nice jetting and twin pumps but the two things above would be enpugh for me to take it off my possible list.

  571. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    I’m not a huge fan of either one of those two brands. In my head they’re kind of the reason I started this whole site, to point out where marketing trumps over reality. The truth is these companies are spending a lot of money on building brand awareness or marketing and the tub in my opinion is kind of middle of the road in quality and highly overpriced because of the added cost of all this marketing and advertising.

    I also am adamant about the parts list, the guys that are building parts to fit just their hot tubs are not doing it to give you a better tub or a better deal, the best built parts are things like Balboa and waterways CMP. When guys put proprietary parts on a hot tub it is so that they can capture you forever, so that you can never go anywhere else for parts and they can charge whatever they want. It’s a great corporate strategy for profit it’s a terrible situation for the end user.

    There is a company near you called Atlanta Spa and Leisure, they’re my first hot tub University approved All Star and these guys have literally taken care of 30 or 40 of our customers. They carry a couple of different brands, the Masters that they carry are absolutely their top-line and what I recommend.

  572. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Used tubs can be great or they can be a nightmare.

    The best thing to do if you’re looking at a used tub get the front taken off of it where the electronics in the pumps are. Set your phone for video and shoot a video of the whole area slowly pan look between the motors look at all the unions look at all that stuff and send us a copy of the video.

  573. Reply
    admin May 25, 2018 at 11:49 am

    Hi Rick.

    It’s a bit of a desert out there πŸ™‚ pun intended…

    Sorry for the delay yer my first from the area and it takes a bit to have my team scrape all the info πŸ™‚

    You got the regular stuff like American whirlpools, CalSpa, Bullfrog, Hot Springs etc but you also have a few gems.

    You have an Artesian dealer Tucson Hot Tubs, and Marquis dealer Patio Pools and Spas, I don’t know anything about the dealers though they have not registered with us.

    You also have 3 independent service companies that specialize in hot tub service so if you have a brand with a readily available parts list you can buy anything.

    I got a super good guy up in Pheonix, reach out, 100 miles is not a lot for a good dealer if they have a service guy out near you.

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved! dustin@swimspas.us

    These guys have my 5 star recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. Buy from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and make sure you get taken care of πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!

    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799