User Posts: admin

The ratings you see on a Rating site reviews can be anything from anyone and most of the time if it is really bad review or a really good review it's either a ...

The Base of a hot tub is what it sits on and there are a lot of options from basic vapor barrier to ABS bottom pans and Fiberglass trays. Scare tactics like ...

Circulation pumps also called "Hush Pumps", and "Silent Flow" pumps are sold as an advantage and often as an upgrade on Hot Tubs. The Pitch is that they are ...

Every manufacturer has a miracle system that will make owning a hot tub easier, and healthier and safer. In this Video, we take a quick look at the ...

Great Hot Tubs or great marketing. You can't have them both and you can't relax in a brochure. There are 2 business models for Hot Tub manufacturers and ...

How Regular Hot Tub Sessions Relieve Arthritis Symptoms   Arthritis affects upwards of 350 million people worldwide, around 40 million of which are ...

There does not seem to have been any major modifications to the shell designs in decades including the old pressure filter housings and even floor suctions ...

USA Swimming, the National Governing Body for the sport of swimming in the United States announced the renewal of its partnership with Master Spas as an ...

It's no secret that recently a large number of millennials have been purchasing a lot more hot tubs than thy have in recent history. With this recent trend, ...

A small number of Hot Tub companies have started making parts that just fit their spas. These proprietary parts are cheaper, fail more often, and lock you into ...

Browsing All Comments By: admin
  1. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Sorry Eric,

    This site is getting away from me, it used to be my personal rant space but now it’s something entirely different πŸ™‚

    I need staff to help but I haven’t figured out how to monetize it and not loose the authentic real approach! if I sell my soul for the money (offers every week into the lower mid six digit frame) then the site is nothing but another discussion forum or other bullshit site, sometimes I just need a day or two off πŸ™‚

    Hydropool and arctic I don’t really like for the similar reasons. They both do a few thing good and a bunch of stuff cheaply and spend a scad on the spin marketing, branding and BS. like Hrdropool has a good parts list but insulation and old school filtration systems and floor suctions, reflective insulation systems??? inexpensive solutions that are not good tech.

    Arctic is even worse, the cheapest parts you can buy, one of the cheapest insulation systems out there, no clamps on the plumbing lines and loads and loads of spin pitches and brand marketing.

    let me see what you have out there.

  2. Reply
    admin July 4, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    The Hybrid is a trademark gimmick that has the pumps outside the spa and is bad tech…

    what you are refering to is actually a better definition of “Hybrid” but usually called full foam with the pumps under the spa which is the best.

    The heat reclamation is pretty straight forward.

    The Venturis present on every spa and the ozone system always draw in air and inject that into the water so if the intakes are in the motor area the heat from the pumps gets injected directly into the water. it’s funny because the guys selling the cheap Perimeter insulation systems never talk about this because it really destroys their whole pitch… On one hand they claim that all the “trapped heat” is helping but they ignore the fact that the air is always being circulated when the pump is running which by the laws of physics means it is pumped out of the perimieter and into the tub and then out under the cover. Meanwhile, the outside cold air has to be drawn in to replace the cavity air… it’s why the whole pitch about the air space being an insulator is so non-science… in a thermopane window the intentionally remove the air and or fill it space with nothing or a captive agent with a high R value and then it is sealed so the air can not move… once the air can move beteen the zones it becomes a mover of heat, not an insulator….

  3. Reply
    admin January 18, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

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    admin October 26, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Visitor Rating: 5 Stars

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    admin October 21, 2016 at 2:49 am

    Visitor Rating: 4 Stars

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    admin October 21, 2016 at 1:52 am

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  7. Reply
    admin September 8, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Hi

    I am not aware of the brand Dr. Wellness.

    Ask the questions…

    Are the joints glued and clamped?
    What brand name are the jets, pumps and electronic controls? (you want ideally Balboa and waterways and you want threaded jets)
    Is the shell supported underneath by props and supports? (if there are props and supports it usually indicated a thin shell although they will pitch it as a bonus)

  8. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    the grand Bahama and the phelps would be very close lots of people would put the Phelps higher than the TS they are very close

  9. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 8:19 pm

    Hey Rob

    Yer right it’s a mess how they rate pumps but it’s not master it’s how the industry does it they all quote break Hp cause it sounds good but it does not matter because for comparison purposes that’s how most everyone quotes it.

    I have seen guys put 6 Hp pump heads on 8 amp motors and call them 6 hp…

    You really can’t put anything much bigger than 2 x 12 amp motors… 2 motors are 24 amps the heater is 4-5kw so again 18-22 amps dude all spas run 50 amp supply any more and you blow the breaker and you need a percentage for surge so the most you can reliably run on any hot tub is right around 45 amps… it does not matter if you have 1 motor of 20 you still can’t draw any more power.

    and then it gets even messier because there are different performance curves form different pumps.. they might all draw 12 amps but there will be different flow rates and then the plumbing system will take that number and again effect how it affects the end flow out of the jets πŸ™‚

    I have never found a good solution… the only real way would be to evaluate flow rates and pressure in each finished with diverters and different jets, it would nigh on impossible to get a comparison that’s much better…

    I always find the cheap little jets feel like they are hitting harder because it’s nailing a tiny area and mainly mashing your dermal layer where all the nerves are so they “feel” awesome but for long-term muscle relaxation you need to move the whole muscle mass so the high flow jets which do flow much more water have much more force and move the whole muscle mass… Man sit in front of those seats full of the big therapy jets which a whole pump turned on to just that seat and long-term do way more for muscle tension.

    read this article below the video. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/hi-end-therapy-massage-spas/

  10. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 4:36 pm

    I would say the bullfrog, the shell isn’t my prefered system but the insulation and parts and plumbing are good. Its the best of the options you are mentioning. The Calderas insulation systems is interesting I would think the R value is very close to the foam systems. but the parts are goofy

  11. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Hi Dave.

    Having all this information and experience and its the brand I put out in my little local market where my kids go to school and my wife shops… It’s reliable and easy and gets me good referral business. I don’t endorse it because I sell it I sell it cause I endorse it πŸ™‚

    I literally went through everything out there and I wouldn’t buy any of it. There are a few options outside of your market area and there is a good independent service guy down here I use called Endless Summer Pool and Spa Service

    With this guy local you could go out Of market there is a Master dealer and an Artesian dealer in the 100+ mile rangE.

  12. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    Hey Dave.

    That’s a super weird list dude πŸ™‚

    I like Nordic but it’s entry-level plastic shell durable but a couple grand less to build. The Nordic would compare nicely to Getaway hot tubs. they would be basically the same but the Getaway has better insulation. but both are good tubs.

    the Montclair has only two of the expensive hi flow jets the rest are inexpensive low-performance low flow jets… should be mid-priced and mid-performance at best.

    Twilight is all performance jets… I would expect there to be a massive retail price difference between the 3 spas.

  13. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    My advice would be to stay away from The salt water systems. This is old Technology from the 80s being resold as innovation 10 years after everyone stopped using it. Most guys moved away from this stuff a long time ago. It’s high chemical between 1 to 3 parts per million of chlorine or bromine difficult to manage and unreliable. There’s much better technology on the market that can get you to 4 or 5 x lower chemical levels. read this article

    Ozone is standard on most tubs. and the reality is it doesn’t really do that much. To be effective Ozone systems would need to be a complex expensive system using p[re treated air, high output generators, multi-stage absorption chambers, and off-gas ozone destruct systems costing thousands of dollars… The reality is hot tubs use a cheap $150-$300 system that really has a marginal effect on overall water care and releases off-gas into the tub area which damages covers and pillows and can be a health risk.

    My buddy Griffin Ryan is out that way, I have known this guy personally for 5 or 6 years, he is a solid guy who stands behind what he sells.

  14. Reply
    admin April 17, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    Hi Rob

    They are 6 Hp but that doesn’t mean much πŸ™‚ the hot tub industry uses HP and for water pumps, it really should be GPM or electrical motor amperage. That being said everyone typically uses the BHP rating so at least they are all reasonable comparable. πŸ™‚ They Use a solid 56 frame US motor too which I really like, I find them beefier and longer lasting than the less expensive magnetecks and GE ones. its got good flow, you will not want for power in that tub.

  15. Reply
    admin April 11, 2018 at 8:12 pm

    Jared I didn’t mean to scare anyone off, You got to understand I’m a bit of a fanatic, I want everything to be the best tech available.

    I get a lot of people out in Edmonton, I’m in Halifax!

    I scoured that area end to end, there is just nothing there I would buy but you have two solid independent service guys that are established there because I think they have a few big shows that have been going through there for a while and this has created a good solid service network on the ground, we are seeing this happening in some markets and it’s changing the way things have been.

    I literally sold two tubs there in the last couple weeks.

    you need r-value insulation out there dude. I use a simple rule of thumb. If it would not meet code in a house in a northern US state or Canada then it is simply not good enough. We don’t have silly arguments like this in the building industry… Why??? Because it’s regulated and has to meet scientific scrutiny. Mylar and other radiant barriers were all over the building industry in the 80’s with the same outrageous claims the hot tub industry uses today, no one uses this crap as a primary insulator in that industry anymore and most of the northern US states and the Canadian Mortgage Housing Authority all issued warnings about it back decades ago… This is old recycled technology and there are way-way better options out there.

  16. Reply
    admin April 10, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    That depends so much on what you are looking for…

    if its mainly about you and massage then the TS for sure, if it’s about space w good jetting the clarity 8 footer is roomy as hell but won’t perform like the Twilight.

  17. Reply
    admin April 10, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    The bottom pan is not an issue unless you have a really damp install sight the standard bottom has a heavy poly base.

  18. Reply
    admin April 10, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    Hey Geoff

    Sorry for the delay in answering just so busy on here now!

    I just did a bullfrog review finally, I’m going to get ahold of one soon and dig in deeper but have a boo at this: http://www.hottubuniversity.com/bullfrog/

    Also look at the jetting, the top Bullfrog has a few of the good expensive hi flow jets and a lot fo little ones it is not going to perform like a tub that is full of the high flow therapy jets, Bullfrog does not a build a line like Twilight their top line would be more on par with the next one down health Living.

  19. Reply
    admin April 7, 2018 at 10:56 am

    There wasn’t much real information on the website but haven’t look at the videos with pretty Telltale.

    The obvious red flag is the insulation so if you’re not in the cold area maybe this isn’t such a concern but what they’re doing there is just inexpensive and very very low R-value.

    They didn’t say anything about the shell in the video but you can see the props and supports that they’ve mounted underneath the spa. This is typical of entry-level product they just splash some fiberglass on then just allowed to dry. When “finished” in the tubs not strong enough so they put props and supports under the seats to stop it from cracking. I want a hand-rolled self-supported fiberglass shell with vinyl Ester resin core. This is an expensive part of your purchase and it’s not a part to cut corners on. This spa is what it is… it’s what 80% of the industry is… some good some bad some ugly…

    I looked around the area, You have a lot of good options down there:

    Hot Tub Store – Master-
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.2View in Google Maps

    Allstate Home Leisure Sterling Heights
    Artesian is a good brand but they also carry some goofy brands like Jacuzzi and Sundance
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    44605 Schoenherr Rd, Sterling Heights, MI 48313
    http://www.homeleisure.com
    +1 586-932-5100
    4.7View in Google Maps

    and a good independent service guy:

    The Hot Tub Guy
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4212 Greenfield Rd, Berkley, MI 48072
    +1 248-794-2478
    View in Google Maps

  20. Reply
    admin April 7, 2018 at 10:07 am

    Hi Shawn.

    I have seen the new 2018 and there are two things changed, first, they went to the CMP jet system after trialing it on another line for a couple years and seeing the result from guys like Artesian and many others that went to the system. Traditionally the click-in jets have been a pain in the ass, the problem with the click in Jet Systems was that they had two little springy tabs on the side of the jet that would click and lock into place and after time the chemicals would degrade the plastic and the plastic would no longer be flexible enough so those little tabs would snap off and the jets would Fall out.
    So everyone went to threaded Jets and that was awesome at least the Jets would stay in. The problem was they would stay in so good that after a while you couldn’t unthread them again because they’d be all stuck in place. The new system uses these two blades on either side of the Jet and when the jet goes into the fitting you turn it and the blades slide into two grooves and lock into place. They’re much more substantial tabs and because they’re not forced to flex every time they come in and out they’re going to last. I’ve been watching these for year-and-a-half 2 years now deciding whether I was going to put them on my endorsed list and the reality is these jets are holding up really really well and there have been very few problems with them, I don’t think it’s going to be an issue.

    The other change was the skirt system, nice clean quick click removable and super durable double walled vinyl.

    Performance wise it’s mad, I really believe it’s one of the best performance spas out there, I always have one running at my hose for my busted up and broken body.

  21. Reply
    admin April 7, 2018 at 9:51 am

    Hi Charles

    I’m personally not a fan of the jacuzzi, its one of the brands we won’t service even. I’m fanatical about a good parts list and the argument I have with a lot of these guys that are building a special parts list to just fit their hot tubs is this. They are not doing this for a better part, There are great reliable OEM parts Like Balboa that will simply work better and last they do it for two reasons the first is to save money because the really great parts are expensive, the second reason is to take you off the open market and ensure that all the revenue from these goofy parts goes right back through the manufacturer because they control the Parts… This is a great corporate profit structure but a crap deal for the end user.

    the rest I agree with I don’t like the “space blanket” foils, they are crap and cheap.

    Its no secret I’m a fan of the Master when I went back into retail as soon as I could afford a top brand its what I choose for my local market where my kids go to school and my wife shops. there were literally 4 or 5 brands on the list of possibles and they are the same brands I recommend on here… It’s not even brands that I endorse its a way of making hot tubs that is expensive and sustainable. people accuse me of doing this for nefarious reasons but 1 of the brands I endorse is my local competitors brand! I must be nuts πŸ™‚

  22. Reply
    admin April 4, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    On a 2009 you will be fine the parts I think are Balboa and the shell if it lasted this long will be fine. Look between the pump head and the motor for white buildup which will indicate a failing pump. I would suspect it has had a main pump replacement at least. Not much has changed in 10 years except the parts have gotten cheaper and poorer quality on a lot of things. the key to moving and storing is chlorinate and run a spa clean puck through before you empty then vac the lines and put it on its side or flat. Then just place it fill it and run it

  23. Reply
    admin April 4, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    Pricing varies a lot by region, its really expensive to do business in LA for instance and cheap as chips in rural areas but That’s a good price for that unit anywhere
    .

  24. Reply
    admin April 3, 2018 at 11:40 am

    So the Hot springs use a goofy parts list that you can only get from them, I am fanatical about one thing, get a good reliable easy to source parts list. For me, that makes it a no go brand. When something goes wrong I want an easy to source competitively priced part. You also want a removable skirt system, it’s more expensive to build but if you have any issues it will save you a ton. Building a hot tub with no access to the sides is insane.

    Clarity is a new shell like the open area with loads of room, the jetting is good and the build is right. It also uses a good reliable easy to source parts list.

  25. Reply
    admin April 2, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Hi Russell

    It hasn’t been much of an issue because almost everyone uses the same basic type of PSC (Permanent split capacitor) motors, there are small differences in the longevity and flow curves but they are basically the same machines with variances in the quality of build. The downside to these motors in some applications is that they generate excessive heat but in a hot tub where we reclaim the heat pretty efficiently that’s not such a big downside. While they are no super efficient (around 60% max) most of the inefficiency is lost to generated heat which again is reused so the actual efficiency overall is not bad in this application. And since there are few mechanical components, this design is very simple and reliable and low cost. The other big advantage is interchangeability, we can drop this motor into 90% of the spas out there.

    ECM motors are more efficient (around 80%) in motor current draw because they run cooler but in a hot tub where we are reclaiming the heat generated it’s not significant. They are quieter but in a hot tub we can first employ good anti-vibration pads and where the noise of the motor is drowned by the sound of the water anyway it’s again not that much of an advantage. They are a lot more expensive but most of the advantages would be in flow control systems and in a hot tub it’s not really much advantage, we can already effectively control flow easily and inexpensively.

    All in all, it is a better tech and worth moving to in applications where the heat generation and noise is an issue like an appliance or heating and cooling system but in a hot tub it’s borderline whether it is worth it or not. Just curious… what brand did you see this tech on?

  26. Reply
    admin April 1, 2018 at 11:25 pm

    I’m not really a big fan of the Watkins group. It’s typical of the equity investment companies that spend so much money on brand awareness marketing and advertising but there’s not enough left over to build a great hot tub with. Things like nonremovable sides goofy parts list that you can only get from the manufacturer and old school poly based foams makes this a no-go brand for me.

    go see these guys they do Master, much better build quality and a better price.

    http://www.thegrizzlybearhottubcompany.co.uk/hot-tubs/hot-tubs

  27. Reply
    admin March 28, 2018 at 9:38 am

    From a strictly build standpoint the only two I would have on my radar are the artesian or the Marquis. both are very similar in construction, insulation, and parts list.

    The artesian looks like it eeks it out on performance but hard to say without wet testing.

    The real issue is the shoulder jetting in both tubs, the Artesian has nothing for the big upper shoulder and neck muscles you need a good reverse moulded jet area and you cant have those little piss any jets you need the good hi flow jets to move enough water to really give you long-term upper shoulder and neck improvement.

  28. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    It’s a crazy expensive spa order it without a circ pump and no to the Masterpur $15k is a solid number on that tub

  29. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    Hey Jason sorry man I was so busy this week.

    I would not order the masterpur, go with an aftermarket system like aqua finesse or Spa Marvel.

  30. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    Dude for sure I would go either the Master or the Artesian.

    The parts are better and easier to source and competitively priced, I don’t like these brands that make parts to just fit their spa so they can hammer you forever for overpriced cheap parts. you want a good standard parts list you can get anywhere competitively priced. It’s a big issue.

  31. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Awesome guys Its a great spa and I know Jacqueline and the girls out there.

    if you need anything let me know

  32. Reply
    admin March 27, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Sorry for the delay in responding. This place is going crazy I’m getting so many requests to help and referrals from past customers that we have had to hire staff just to manage it πŸ™

    Add to that the fact that I have been in Georgia chaperoning fifteen 15-year-olds for the past 3 weeks and I’m unraveling just a bit πŸ™‚

    There is not a lot of good options there for you except the Artesian, if it was a warmer climate we could go to something with a good build and parts list and not worry about the insulation but you need R-Value…

    Ill dug through all the locals but ill see if there is anything else.

  33. Reply
    admin March 25, 2018 at 11:22 pm

    Hey Susan. There’s a lot of brands I’m not a fan of, it seems the big built-up metropolises are mostly selling the big brands with the crazy advertising budgets and outrageous retail prices.

    It’s funny it seems like the good brands with, better backup support and better pricing are only in the burbs and beyond πŸ™‚

    For 10k there are loads of good buys especially if the jetting isn’t a big deal for you…

    I don’t really see anything around your post go that I like. but I got a good buddy out there that I know personally that might be able to take care of you.

  34. Reply
    admin March 25, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    It’s a really different area to work in. I looked around at all the shops are there and there’s a lot of Brands but none that are really on my top list especially in a cold climate.

    There’s also an incredible amount of independent service guys there you have five guys in that market that do nothing but fix hot tubs and pools.

    Usually, you find this in an area that is served mainly by Expo events tent sales state fairs or other large hot tub sales events.

    Independent service guys can be a very good resource and give you the option of buying outside of your Market as long as you stick to a standard parts list.

    check out these guys and look at Twilight, they are a bit out of the market

  35. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 6:43 pm

    No wonder your wife does not like hot tubs, commercial tubs are typically really high chemical and low performance it’s not a great environment.

    Generally, I like the Marquis hot tub build quality wise and Parts wise it’s good and insulation Wise It’s good.

    This model, in particular, has a couple issues 1 there’s almost no neck jet system which means upper shoulders and neck were most people carry their tension aren’t really going to be addressed. Those little low-flow Jets they’ve got for neck and shoulder are not going to do anything. You need a high volume of water to deal with those large muscle masses so 4 of the higher flow jets are critical and you need the power to make those bigger jets work.

    I’m also not a big fan of these goofy shapes, right now they’re in style but they’re going to date your purchase and it’s going to make your cover purchase down the road a lot more expensive.

    The Artesian is a good tub as well but again performance-wise it’s lacking a good neck jet system and again no monster Jets.

    If you really want to Performance massage tub in a smaller size you really should look at the Twilight series 67.25 fantastic massage therapy Great Neck and it has those huge for just the just do wonders for lower back and legs and feet. In my opinion, means nothing like that it really touches the Twilight series hot tubs for therapeutic massage.

    When it comes to service support the biggest thing is that you’ve got somebody to call that knows what they are talking about and answers their emails and phone calls because most of the issues with the hot tub can be addressed very simply over the phone. On the ground parts replacement, you have a really good selection of independent service guys out there and you shouldn’t have any problem getting parts replacements.

    I personally wouldn’t have the coast on my final list

  36. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas
    36.83632, -76.09677

  37. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:02 pm

    Hi and sorry for the delay in responding. I’m on “vacation” which is really chaperoning a house full of 14 15-year olds for a month… I need my head examined…

    I spent an hour going through everything out there and there is not a brand I would put into a cold climate like yours.

    as far as salt systems are concerned this is really old technology from the 80s that’s being regurgitated as a new innovation. The reality is all these systems really did was take sodium chloride or sodium bromide and make chlorine or bromine. The days when we were using three to five parts per million of chlorine or bromine in the system this allowed us to go down to1 to 3 parts per million so is this significant decrease. Since then the Technologies evolved a lot and this really is not a system I would recommend. It’s highly corrosive and will damage wood and Concrete and everything else around your area and is hard on your hot tub. It’s not easy to maintain there’s a lot of levels you need to balance like your salt levels as well as the regular stuff and all it does is get you the one to three parts per million chlorine these are not chemical-free systems.I would highly recommend looking at something like a quirkiness mineral salt system or spawn Marvel system that you can use in any tub after purchase. So will I do chlorine or bromine levels down to drinking water levels or around a half a part per million and there is simply nothing out there that is easier to balance?

  38. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:54 am

    dont know the brand but the science is sound, the enzymes work well at controlling biofilm and helping reduce chemical use.

  39. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:53 am

    i would go to the 8 footer for the money and no do not order a circ pump, it has nothing to do with heat and is not a good option.

    the 2017 and 18’s are almost identical only the skirt and the jet had changed

  40. Reply
    admin March 24, 2018 at 12:18 am

    LA is a funny market it is supplied by a regular series for tent sales, expos, and fairs and as a result, there are free dealers and the only ones I can find are the big flash marketing brands.

    The good side is there are loads and load of independent service guys so you can buy almost anything that uses a good easy to source arts list and have a good reliable experience.

  41. Reply
    admin March 23, 2018 at 11:43 am

    solid price great spa good job

    Happy hot tubbing

  42. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 9:19 pm

    the shell the insulation and the filtration all put me off Hydropool.

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6, Canada
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps
    43.41791, -80.4531

  43. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 9:18 pm

    Yep, they make a good spa man. I toured the factory this winter and they are doing a good job.

    With Artesian though you are wholly dependant on the dealer they will not deal with customers directly to make sure its a good dealer or you have a local service guy.

    I would check out Master they have their factory in ft Wayne and I think they sell direct through here:
    Master Spas Indianapolis (by Appointment Only)
    8070 Castleton Road , Indianapolis, IN, 46250
    Phone: 317-999-5922
    indysales@masterspas.com

  44. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    Man, you have so many better options out there.

    Sunrise is a small regional guy the shell is cradle supported and again the insulation is just substandard, the home building code in your area would not let you get away with this low r-value system so just because some hot tub companies spinning it as good in no way changes the fact that it is cheap and substandard.

    The Bullfrog is good except the pods to limit the area that can be reached and typically only goes to up the mid-upper end therapy massage wise, the pitch about the reduced amount of pipe reducing the friction is bullshit, 90% of the pipe is in parallel so the reality is the resistance and the pipe length between the pump and the jets are almost identical. Add to that the plastic ABS shell that’s so weak structurally that they have to prop it up with pedestals to stop it from falling apart makes this one a no go for me…

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends. I know these guys personally and they do a great job. They have a few bad ratings but they are a big target because they are by far the biggest seller of spas in Canada and do a lot of remote sales which makes them a target for fake reviews from local dealers whos markets they go into.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6, Canada
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps
    43.41791, -80.4531

  45. Reply
    admin March 22, 2018 at 12:40 am

    I always answer…

    I’m a one-man show, doing this for nothing, and in the middle of chaperoning 15 15year olds for the month πŸ™‚

    try these guys:

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    The folks at Dixon carry my top brand and they hung out with us at the show this year, we spend a few days together and they have taken great care of a number of my customers.
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.6View in Google Maps

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com
    +1 919-772-7745
    4.4View in Google Maps

  46. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 9:35 pm

    Dan, this is too much for me to figure out…

    So many possibilities.

    but in general look for any of the brands I recommend.

    I’ll do a video about buying used.

    meantime email me if you find anything or post specifics here and ill respond.

  47. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    We are friends πŸ™‚

    and call or email anytime!

  48. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    If you have issues with it you can retrofit it back to a high flow system.

    The reason they offer it as an option is that so many of the brands out there that sell on the strength of their marketing use these systems so most manufacturers offer them as an option to be competitive.

    Email me if you need any help

  49. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 7:16 pm

    Hydropool I am simply not a fan of at all.. this tub is full of old tech that they have rebranded as new… ts wack, IMHO it’s a mid-grade overpriced spa that they spent a ton on marketing…

    Beachcomber is good to build but stay away from the Hybrid line its old tech and don’t expect too much on the performance end, they are hyper-focused on efficiency and they seem to have confused efficient with performance. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/brand-reviews/

    I would go see these guy there is literally not a better dealer in the world than this for the Moncton area, they sell 2-3x more hot tubs other than the local guys and their service levels are insane they have… Not to mention they carry my number one brand!!!!
    e local emergency service and their main service is out there weekly.

    Hot Tub Universe
    Theresa Shea
    theresa@hottubuniverse.ca
    902-576-5115

  50. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    I went through the area you have a few options, there are a couple Artesian Dealers, these are good spas well made but I would go see these guys they do Twilight which is built the same as the Artesian but kick it on performance.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Status HTU All-Star

    I spent 4 days with these guys and talked a lot about tubs, and customer care, these guys have the right attitude and as a HTU All-Star if you by from these guys and Gt Hot Tub University Approved on your original invoice you can always fall back on us if you have any issues that the dealer cant solve for you.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.7View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  51. Reply
    admin March 21, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    all right you’re about the 5th person is bugging me about this hot tub so I finally tried to figure it out something about it. I looked online but there wasn’t much information, basically fluff. I got on the phone to the factory and had a chat with a guy there and it’s exactly what you would expect from a cheap spa. if you look at it performance-wise there are lots of small Jets very few the high-flow therapy massage jets.

    Again typical of this kind of price point product we have a cradle supported shell that is too thin to support their load. We do have a good control and heating system which is great. But again the insulation is substandard with an inch of Styrofoam with some mylar this is simply not going to keep your tub running efficiently in any kind of cold climate. there is very little R-value here. pose.

    There are not a lot of great options in your area but there are 4 independent service guys so you could buy outside of the market.

    try these guys

    David’s Home Entertainment & Recreation
    2566 Asheville Road, Waynesville, NC, 28786
    Phone: 828-452-5534
    david@davidshomeentertainment.com
    davidshomeentertainment.com

  52. Reply
    admin March 19, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    Hi Clint

    My father in law is from Kindersley just south of you πŸ™‚

    I’m not a big fan of hydro pool.

    Mna i have been going over your area and there is just not a lot of options, Arctic and Hydropool, I really do not like either,

    Hydropool for the reasons above and the Arctic because it’s just full of cheap proprietary parts and almost nothing spent on insulation ad they don’t even clamp the plumbing line, these guys need to spend more on the tub and less on the bullshit branding and marketing.

  53. Reply
    admin March 18, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    Hi Patty

    1. Floor model/show model/warehouse model = why not often they have good prices and the stuff done to a demo spa is the same stuff you will do to yours in 6 months.
    2. Hydraulic lift vs. rock it lifts? stay away from hydraulic lifts, they are crap, they destroy your cover and are always lifting the center so you don’t get a good seal on the cover, try and get a simple top mount lift and try and get aluminum brackets, not the plastic ones, they are hard to find, let me know if you cant
    3. Clarity vs. Healthy Living? Clarity- roomy, great for really getting a lot of people in. open barrier-free seating. HL contoured seating good for tall people, smaller footwell better message (more high flow jets) other than that they are the same.
    4. High-end roto mould suggestions? rotomoulds are strong and reliable shells but typically they are lower end performance wise and a lot of them are simply cheap crap. I like Nordic and Getaway, getaway edges it out because they simply spend more on the insulation package.
    5. Recommended dealer(s) in our area?
    Hot Tub & Spa Emporium – Rocklin Store
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I met with these guys personally and have had many conversations with them. They carry Twilight, Healthy Living, Balance, Trainers, Nordic Spas which are brands we like.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    500, 6620, Lonetree Blvd, Rocklin, CA 95765
    http://www.sachottub.com
    +1 916-899-3242
    4.3View in Google Maps
    6. Options after base price? What to add and/or stay away from…..I.e. Ozonator and circulating pump… None, they come with everything you want.
    7. Mostly used by 2 people/lounger… up to you try one wet and see if you like the lounger, first-time buyers often buy loungers second time often don’t.

    Happy Hot Tubbing

  54. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    I haven’t seen the Marquis 3 seater and I’m in the middle of a 4-week stint chaperoning fourteen 15-year-old boys and I’m losing it so you are getting the abridged version πŸ™‚

    Typically I love both brands from a build standpoint but the Twilight is the top therapy massage spa out there. just look at the jets… when it comes to massage bigger is better.. they cost more, flow more water, and move bigger masses of muscle…

  55. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    I’m really not a fan of the Hydro Pools Spas. There is a lot of old technology that they rebranded to try and make it sound like it’s Innovation like those self-cleaning floor suction, and pressure side filtration. I’m also really not a fan of the installation system Mylar is cheap and ineffective in this application. The fact that you cant use these radiant systems in home construction ( highly regulated industry) as a primary insulator really makes you need to reassess whether this is a good system. this is bad tech and just because some hot tub company says its a good insulation system in no way changes that.

    I also really recommend you rethink the Dual lounger unless you’re a previous hot tub owner and you’ve experienced this and you really like loungers I think you’ll find that this isn’t a great option. The reality is second-time buyers rarely buy a lounger, you’re floating you don’t notice whether you’re in a lounge chair or a seat and they just take up a lot of room and you tend to float out of them. Also, that second lounger looks really short in a tub that size I bet you’d be hard-pressed to have two comfortable loungers in there typically when you have a dual Laundry Tub it’s in the 96″ range.

  56. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    hey Allison.

    If you don’t mind spending the money the Phelps swim spa is in a class of its own. the swim number app system lets you turn it into an interval trainer because it will automatically allow you to program variable training where the flow increases and decreases throughout your workout for real interval training. Also the flow rates in that Swim Spa are just phenomenal I can’t swim anywhere near 40% for for for a 20-minute workout. for efficient swimmers that are competing or people that want to work out regularly and have that advantage of the flow control there simply isn’t a swimmer that will do a better job in the world.

    The deal Master Spas it with Michael Phelps was never just a simple endorsement deal it was a program with USA swimming to design Pro swim trainer that professional athletes can use. The extra depth the flow control the contoured sides that smooth of the current everything about this spa is a result of years of work with Michael Phelps and his coach Bob Bowman refining this product to what you see today.

    and I have one of these in my backyard and I use it 365 days in a year I do a swim and then I use all the workout gear and Float against the current. And then I jump over the hot tub side and turn on the main therapy seat, its the same seat as he twilight series and again its miles ahead of anything for a really high-end therapy massage seat.

  57. Reply
    admin March 17, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    Hi, Michelle.

    Nothing against your contractor but I would not take advice on a specialized product like this from a general contractor, and almost always these “recommendations” have a referral fee attached to them, it’s not uncommon in fact it is the norm… I have 8 or 10 contractors that refer me business and I always throw them a referral fee, its an advertising expense… The fact that he is referring a brand like QCA and saying they tweak it for salt environments makes me roll my eyes… any of the top tubs are built to this standard already the fact that a dealer needs to tweak a brand to be able to operate in a salty environment speaks volumes about the original quality of the product.

    I had a look at the brand online and just from the surface there are issues. They are using an ABS plastic shell, these were all the rage 20 years ago they were supposed to be cheaper and reliable, they ended up just being cheaper but they had a lot of issues. they are not gluing and clamping plumbing instead they are using old internally glued fittings and again a less expensive insulation system.

    check out these guys they are the best in the area.

    Hot Tubs Inc
    Status HTU All-Star

    I spent 4 days with these guys and talked a lot about tubs, and customer care, these guys have the right attitude and as a HTU All-Star if you by from these guys and Gt Hot Tub University Approved on your original invoice you can always fall back on us if you have any issues that the dealer cant solve for you.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1925 Norfolk Dr, Owings, MD 20736
    http://www.hottubsinc.com
    +1 410-257-6513
    3.7View in Google Maps
    38.68327, -76.63295

  58. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 10:57 am

    So you really need to look at the jetting and flow control when you are looking for the massage. the big expensive hi flow jets really make a longterm difference to muscle mobility. but when you get more than 5 or 6 of the big jets you really need flow control to be able to steal all the pump for the main seat.

    I’m like you… broken and sore and for me, the monster jets in the floor with the ability to put a big 6 hp pump onto them are my best friend esp for lower back and glutes.

    Both those spas will be reliable and well built but the Upper end of the Masters (twilight, LSX)will outperform the Marquis.

  59. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:17 am

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    Dixon Pools & Spas
    122 Alamance Rd., Burlington, NC, 27215
    Phone: 336-221-0808
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.6View in Google Maps

  60. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:14 am

    I don’t usually do eco pur so I really don’t have a lot of advice email me what you are doing right now and what issues you are having or email yer phone and we can have a chat

  61. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:10 am

    Try these guys for a master and if you really want top neck and shoulder and massage in general look at the twilight.

    as for more pumps being better…not so much read this.

    Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personal met these guys a few times, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps
    40.5017, -88.95481

  62. Reply
    admin March 16, 2018 at 1:04 am

    Hey David

    The hot water is one part and that can be good for the area but remember if you have inflammation in the area the hot water will aggravate it and increase the inflammation, you will want to be cautious to ice the area afterward if it’s inflamed. and definitely, need to consult with the doctor or surgeon with regards to when and for how long and what temp. DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE OF A MEATHEAD HOT TUB SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT (ME)…

    Similarly, the jet action needs to be highly controllable preferably a diverter valve and try and get a lot fo high flow jets.

    hydro pool and lazy boy are both made by hydro pool and Sundance was bought by jacuzzi, I don’t one for the crap parts and the other two for the old tech like self-cleaning nonsense and crap insulation.Backyard Living
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I have personally met these guys a few times, they come highly recommended.
    Phone: 309-433-9047
    backyardliving2011@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    902 IAA Dr, Bloomington, IL 61701
    backyardlivingil.com
    +1 309-433-9047
    View in Google Maps
    40.5017, -88.95481

  63. Reply
    admin March 15, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    Performance wise the little neck jets don’t really do much I like to see some good mid flow jets (4) with the ability to divert a lot of fo water to them, neck, shoulders are a big mass and you need enough flow to really move that muscle mass to get good long-term improvement.

    all in all BF is a good spa but forget all the bullshit about higher flow rates, its a trick…. if all that pipe were in series (one long peice) then yes the reduction in the amount of pipe would make a difference to the efficiency and flow rate but its not… most of the pipe in in parallel (side by side) so the distance of the pipe from the motor to the jet is almost identical. I dislike the fact they are using duplicity and the reality is the jets packs offer zero improvements over the current model, no advantages at all and several disadvantages including a big restriction on where the jets can be located and 10x the price to customize the seats! if you buy a tub with mid and high flow jets you can change the jets for $30 instead of $700 for the stupid pack. I love real technological innovation that offers a real-world tangible benefit but in my opinion, this is fake innovation for a marketing ploy more than anything else. add to that the ABS plastic shell that is so weak they need to put pedestals under it to keep it from falling apart and it’s just not a brand I can get behind.

  64. Reply
    admin March 14, 2018 at 12:56 am

    Hey Jae

    that was USD down in Georgia

  65. Reply
    admin March 13, 2018 at 11:44 am

    try these guys

    Dixon Pool & Spa, Inc.
    Dixon Pools & Spas
    122 Alamance Rd., Burlington, NC, 27215
    Phone: 336-221-0808
    poolnspa@hotmail.com
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    122 Alamance Rd, Burlington, NC 27215
    http://www.dixonpool-spa.com
    +1 336-221-0808
    2.6View in Google Maps

  66. Reply
    admin March 13, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Wow Lou good shopping you have identifir=ed two great spas that are very very close from a performance standpoint and a build standpoint.

    First forget the jet bullshit, they are the same, and for the most part so is everything else.

    But there is one big issue and last your \i would have warned you off both of these spas for it.

    Its the circ pump. its bad tech and I never ever recommend a circ pump system for a ton of reasons. last year both units came with a circ pump so neither brands were on my recommended list. This year you can order the Phelps with the hi-flow filter system and that makes it a no-brainer, the circ pumps are crap, its bad tech that marketing has made it sound like a good option but the failure rate and customer satisfaction levels are way-way better with high flow filter system. read this…

  67. Reply
    admin March 13, 2018 at 11:20 am

    Hi Richard.

    Happy hot tubbing. and if you have any needs ping me we can help

  68. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    Yeah the price is right for that tub and I like the clarity a lot. brand new shell designs with loads of space in them and Clarity is a Master spa line so it’s all the right stuff from a build quality standpoint.

  69. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    That’s pretty funny that you mentioned Atlanta Georgia. I’m in Atlanta Georgia right now πŸ™‚

    I’m not sure if either of those two Brands dude, it wouldn’t be something I would be buying I would really want to look for one of the name brands that you know was doing the right stuff these smaller independent guys sometimes can be building good spas but very rarely are they doing all the right stuff.

    check out these guys they do master and the master factory is not far from you.

    Kasten, Inc.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    210 W Industrial Park Rd, Carbondale, IL 62901
    http://www.kasten.net
    +1 618-457-8721

  70. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 8:29 pm

    you have a couple options in Salt Lake City there is an Artesian dealer down there they make a great hot tub good shells, good Plumbing, good insulation, and good parts. There are also three independent subcontractors that just repair hot tubs in don’t sell anything they just fix hot tubs and that’s always a good resource to have in an area too. It allows you the option of going outside of your local market.

    Soakers
    Status: Unverified

    No idea what is up with the dealer but the brand is solid Artesian is one my goto brands
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6905 State St, Midvale, UT 84047
    soakers.biz
    +1 801-838-7727

  71. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    yeah, so it’s critical to have the thermal mass in these 110v units. you need all the help you can get.

    Marquis Hot Tubs – Clackamas
    Staus – Unrated
    link- are you the owner? click here to be HTU approved-
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    10822 SE 82nd Ave J, Happy Valley, OR 97086
    http://www.marquishottubs.com
    +1 503-210-0077
    4.7View in Google Maps

  72. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Depends, you have a ton of independents there which can make a remote purchase a good thing, talk to the dealer see what they have on the ground for you.

  73. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004

  74. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Hi Lisa

    It’s not practical to raise and lower the temp on a daily basis.

    the costs would be astronimical in the $200+ a month mark and you just cant cool a spa quickly. a dual zone swims spa if your willing to spend the money is your solution.

  75. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:12 pm

    Hey Tim

    I know coast is not in my tier one group, would have to reference why and im on vacation so yer getting the cheap and easy answers πŸ™‚ never heard of Zenith.

    As for the base, dont get too caught up… http://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-base-whats-hot-tub/

    Austin Spas and Pools
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know these guys but the Carry Artesian which is on our good guy list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    13748 Research Blvd, Austin, TX 78750
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com
    +1 512-335-5458

    or if you travel a bit:

    Atlas Spas & Swim Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4801 W Park Blvd Unit 448, Plano, TX 75093
    http://www.atlasspas.com
    +1 469-707-9004

  76. Reply
    admin March 12, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Hydropol is not a band I would go to. def the Marquis is a far better-built tub with much more current technology.

  77. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    yeah so the crazy pricing is everywhere now, hot springs and Beachcomber started quoting these stupidly inflated prices the idea is if the retail is really high it must be super good, and a great deal because wow we have 40% off… bullshit all of it but it does not matter look at the features and compare the price you can buy it for but ignore the bs retail number they throw out.

    The Beachcomber and the HL line should be the same price they both have 7 or 8 of the high flow jets and no diverters or monster foot jets. but beachcomber does not build a spa with all high flow jets and big pumps and the monster jets and the diverter systems, they only build to the mid-performance end the TS tub flows more water out for the corner seat than the whole beachcomber almost.

  78. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    A great dealer is great but HS prices are out to lunch, its a mid-grade spa, nonremovable sides, cheap proprietary parts… the only reason it costs twice what it should is the marketing and branding budget… Crazy.

    of the brands you mention def the Marquis or the Artesian

  79. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 10:28 pm

    depends on the dealer, 3 hours is not much and right around you there are 4 independent service guys, call the dealer and ask what support he has on the ground.

    a dealer with great communication can easily take great care of a customer 500 or even 1000 miles away and half the local guys can’t even take care of their local market.

  80. Reply
    admin March 11, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    Both are good tub unless you are going for high-end therapy massage spas the Marquis only does to the mid-upper end.

    als0 after sales service is dealer not factory although if you call Master direct they will deal with you and Marquis will not.

    The bad press from Master is their expos not local dealers. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-ratings-sites-hot-tub-discussion-forums-sorting-bullshit-bananas/

  81. Reply
    admin March 9, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    GO DEEP!

    I’m telling you the biggest thing is depth I’ve had swimmers for almost 15 years and I never noticed a bigger difference than when I got into the 60″ deep models, it gives you so much more flexibility esp for crosstraining and hacking around with the kids πŸ™‚

    Neither of those brands are in my top list although of the two the Cal would be slightly better esp with the full foam upgrade.

    Seriously no one comes close on the swim spa scene to the guys who started it all. these guys spent so much time and money on the development of their swimmers that there is really not even a real close second.

    See the H2X or if you really want to swim at the competitive level the Michael Phelps line, these are not just paid for endorsements, they spend scads of time with Michael and his coach Bob Bowman developing their swim spa program and they are simply super well built really good hi flow swim spas with lots of great features and 60″ depth.

    Best Buy Pools & Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    731 Beta Dr, Cleveland, OH 44143
    +1 440-623-7554
    3.8View in Google Maps

  82. Reply
    admin March 9, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    Hi Andrew.

    Not heard back from them. Every time I ask them anything they just ignore me πŸ™‚

    Not sure if it is and its a concern. Some guys make the quality a lot lower on the entry level lines.

    My advice in general is if you are going to the mid or lower price point always buy basic… stay away from bells and whistles and spend the money on the build quality

  83. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    East Coast Spas
    Status: HTU All-Star

    I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care and they need to be carrying a line we like. When you buy from an Approved All-Star you can use us if you every have an issues and we will wack them into compliance with our big stick πŸ™‚
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  84. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Hey Tess.

    any of my recommended brands used should still have the right stuff for reliability and ease of getting parts.

    Age wise depends on how much you want to spend. and the condition of the spa. this guy is an independent service guy in your area, you might want to pay him to go look at the spa for you first.

    Pool Guy of Mansfield
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    Mansfield, OH 44902
    http://www.thepoolguypro.com
    +1 419-544-2881
    5.0View in Google Maps

  85. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    Good choice.

    I spent three days at the cal spa factory this winter I was looking at bringing them into our recommended brands, They are ok-ish I really like some stuff like the parts and plumbing and you can order with the full foam upgrade but they went away from Balboa to a waterways pack on all but their top lines which is a big questionable move for me. The shells also I was not overly impressed by, I saw in the advertising this big steel re-enforcing angle iron and all this talk and it turns out the “steel” is a thin strip of metal like drywall edging, there was no strength there worth talking about and the shell is not hand-rolled, it is cradle supported which means it has 2″x3″ pieces of wood to prop it up… They also have a history of lack of back-end support but they really looked like they were making some strides towards fixing that. They also have way-way too many skews…

  86. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    The 240 is a really good performing massage spa, built well. the marquis will be well built but much lower performance and at 11 years old it’s expensive.

  87. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Funny enough I was wondering the same πŸ™‚

    So I flew to Vegas last month and had a look at the factory, they are doing a good job on that line. What I don’t like is the old style foot domes… those little jets are useless for feet you need the big monster jets for foot massage. Also, the domes are a major tripping hazard, and you need ot run plumbing under the floor which means big heat loss through conduction, also the jetting is pretty pedestrian so I would expect in the lower price range.

  88. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    Hot Tub Store
    Status: HTU Approved

    We met with these folks and they are doing a bang-up job in their local market. We approve these guys which means if you buy from them you can call us if you have issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8787 Hall Rd, Utica, MI 48317
    thehottubstoremi.com
    +1 586-739-9111
    4.3View in Google Maps

  89. Reply
    admin March 8, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    Hey Jonathon.

    Both of those are good brands, I just searched the area and those are the two best.

    I also got a hit on google for a big tent sale in Vancouver this weekend, I called the number and they said they do master and have a deal with a local hot tub company for service out there and there are literally 5 independent service guys within 40 km of you so that might be worth a look.

  90. Reply
    admin March 7, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    The likely reason for the better efficiency is BC uses the full foam Icynene insulation, the other guys have partial foam perimiter or mylar or it could be down to usage. With the hybrid option, you lose the ability to reclaim the motor heat and the equipment is at risk in power outages very quickly.

  91. Reply
    admin March 7, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Hi Chris

    Pricing is funny, it does change regionally as the cost of doing business goes up esp in big metro areas. Industry-wise there have been no major price effectors. Last years models are fine if they havent made any big improvements which I doubt they have.

    I hadn’t really looked at the spa from a performance standpoint because the brand is just not a tub I would buy for a lot of reasons not the least of which is proprietary parts. These guys that go get parts made to just fit their spas instead of spending more for the good reliable easy to source parts Like Balboa are not doing you any favors, they are just locking you into having to buy all your parts from them only at whatever price they dictate.. great corporate business model but bad for the end user, you want good proven reliable parts you can get everywhere at competitive prices. On the plus side, their fibercor insulation is on par with an Icynene foam system.

    So I spent some time looking at the Geneva and Cantabria models.

    First off look at the jetting, loads of the inexpensive little low flow jets and only a few of the big expensive Hi flow jets, also the neck jet seat again is all low flow, I want mid flow jets for the neck and shoulder and I want lots of high flow jets with diverters so I can really point the water to the big muscle areas. I also want the big monster jets again with a diverter or their own pump for really big muscle masses and tough bits like glutes, feet, legs. knees etc. These tubs are like most upper-end spas but nothing special there is no serious foot jet system and with low flow jets for the neck and back in a lot of seats its just not kitted out like I feel a good high end therapy massage spa should be kitted out.

    If you want a real high-end massage spa I really think the Twilight series 8.2 is the best tub out there right now and will blow the geneva out of the water from a performance standpoint. (see the video below I shot of mine.)

    If you want a bigger tub look at the LSX 1000 the guys below do them both.

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved!

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. Buy from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!

    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  92. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Tropic seas is not Artesian. I would not consider the tropic seas. and yes they totally are playing bullshit games with you… what dealer is it so I can notate the file?

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved!

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  93. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    jesus that’s 2 from the rock today πŸ™‚

    the beachcomber or marquis, but stay away from the beachcomber Hybrid.. they will try and upsell you but its bad tech stay with leep.

  94. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:54 pm

    Hi Michelle.

    If you get a hot tub with lots of the big high flow jets then you can update it easily and cheaply by just swapping jets for $30 each… and no one ever does this πŸ™‚ most Bullfrog dealers I know say no one ver buys the packs, there too expensive. as for the flow rates, it is negligible, there is a bit of resistance in a pipe. when they say they reduce the amount of pipe by 90% they are fooling you because most of that pipe is in parallel, so while it reduced the total amount of pipe by 90% the line from the pump to the jets is almost identical… both systems run a large 2″ pipe from the pump to the manifold once at the manifold it splits into 12 3/4″ hoses to the jets, well 12 3/4″ hoses is about 9″ of water carrying which is way less resistance than the original 2″ pipe… now if all that pipe was in a line (series) then there would be a big difference but when these pipes are in parallel it actually reduces the total resistance… https://www.augusta.k12.va.us/cms/lib01/VA01000173/Centricity/Domain/396/Resistance_in_the_Fluid_System.pdf

    these guys are a ways away but i think they told me they have a local service guy there…

    East Coast Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  95. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:33 pm

    Marquis or Master, the ABS shell on the Bullfrog makes it a no-go for me.

    The Marquis has twin diverters and about 19 of the high flow jets, but no real neck jet system and no real foot jet system (those little low flow jets do not move anywhere near enough water to really do any good on feet or any big muscle mass). and a lot of the little inexpensive low flow jets.

    The TS series performance wise is by far the winner it has a dozen of the High flow jets and all the rest are the mid flow and there are none of the cheap low flow jets. It has an amazing wrap around neck jet system using 4 mid flow therapy jets and those massive jets in the floor are insane, you can divert an entire 6 hp pump to those jets and for feet, hips, legs and lower back those monster jets are the best.

  96. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    Windsor! me old stomping grounds πŸ™‚ I grew up on the old Windsor Dragway πŸ™‚

    Both tubs are equal from a build standpoint but if you go to beachcomber don’t get the hybrid even though they say its better go tot he Lepp with the pumps inside.

    but… those are 2 very different spas.. the Beachcomber does not do anything near to the performance of the Twilight, it would better be compared to the HL from a ;performance standpoint, the jetting and flow rates are miles apart, that twilight can flow 4x more water through the main captains seat and the foot jets again can flow 4x times more than the BC… they are both solid spas but the BC’s don’t build anything in the super high-end therapy spas like the twilight.

  97. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    ow she cuttin dere by’e

    Marquis or beachcomber but stay away from the Hybrid models… Bad tech…

  98. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    Hi Joanne

    We have had an eye on the CMP jets and are just about to add them tot he recommended list, they have been in the field for a few years now and are performing well. in fact, all three of our top-rated brands have switched over to them over the past couple years. The biggest problem with the click in jets has always been the failure on the tabs that lock in because the older style had these tabs tath would flex and then click in place, over time as the plastic lost its flexibility they would break off. The CMP uses two blades that slot into a groove in the body and the plastic does not need to flex to lock and the plastic is less susceptible to stiffening.

    Warranty is always hard to figure out, lots of times they are pro-rated so you pay a portion. it’s arbitrary and you always pay for every year… If a guy is offering 5 years it does not mean the reliability is better it just means he has worked it into his price… if a guy offers 3 years he worked that into his price… Upgrade all the warranties to the same and look at the cost but don’t think that just because they have a 5-year warranty cost into the tub price that its any indication of quality.

    I like the twilights and all the pricing you have there is good.

    Shell colour… Always buy white (Silver marble) dark colours show all the finger marks and dirt… just look at cars in a parking lot the black cars always look dirty and the white always look clean.. plus the lighting it way better in a light spa and it does not date your purchase…

    A Twilight is a good spa and the price is right.

  99. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    The two other ones are better than the bullfrog for sure, I’m not a fan of the all the gimmicks and its a pedestal supported ABS shell.

    I have literally put 20 or 30 deals through the guys below, they are a little further out but have a boo at them as well.

    East Coast Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

  100. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    Hi Stacey.

    I swear I am going to open a store there.

    I get so many requests for help out there and there are just no good options on the ground in So Cal.

    I think what happened in this:

    The state fair and the expo and the tent sales guys have hammered that area for so long that the local retailers have just dried up.

    There are as a result a ton of independent service guys and these guys are usually really good for on the ground service.

    There are few retailer and the ones that are there carry the Hot springs Caldera (same parent co) lines. In my opinion, they are mid grade spas at best and you get to pay twice what they are worth to cover the millions they spend on Brand awareness, fancy marketing and BS πŸ™‚

    There is one guy who does Marquis

    Pacific Coast Sauna & Spa
    Status: Unverified.

    All we know is they say they carry Marquis which is on the edge of our recommended group. They seem to build a decent product but They refuse to give us access to their manufacturing to verify the build… Everyone else is bugging me to come see what they are doing we have done 3 factory tours already in 2018 and these guys won’t even return calls…
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2176 S El Camino Real, San Mateo, CA 94403
    pcsaunaandspa.com
    +1 650-212-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  101. Reply
    admin March 5, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Hey Anthony

    From a build standpoint, I like all these tubs, they are very similar construction if you order the marquis with the full foam (standard on the other 2). All these spas have moved over to the CMP jets system. I have to say Im being converted, this system is working reliably and while traditionally I would have been all over click in jets being a bad thing and I still am for the ones with the tabs on them these new blades lock in well and I am just finishing up some research and about to start endorsing them.

    performance wise look a the jetting…

    The HL is the entry one here, it has no diverter and about 11 of the high flow therapy jets.

    The next is the Epic which has twin diverters and about 19 of the high flow jets, but no real neck jet system and no real foot jet system (those little low flow jets do not move anywhere near enough water to really do any good on feet). and a lot of the little inexpensive low flow jets.

    The TS series performance wise is by far the winner it has a dozen of the High flow jets and all the rest are the mid flow and there are none of the cheap low flow jets. It has an amazing wrap around neck jet system using 4 mid flow therapy jets and those massive jets in the floor are insane, you can divert an entire 6 hp pump to those jets and for feet, hips, legs and lower back those monster jets are the best.

  102. Reply
    admin March 4, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    in a cold climate, the 100v has some big drawbacks.

    1. on a cold day with the cover off the temp drops quickly with a 110v
    2. 220v is more efficient
    3. very limited performance on 100v

  103. Reply
    admin March 4, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Middle of the road.

    I like the parts list and the insulation but don’t like ABS shells. these shells need to be supported with props and pedestals to keep them from breaking, I want a good hand rolled fibreglass shell.

  104. Reply
    admin March 4, 2018 at 6:38 pm

    the Dynasty and the Twilight have the best neck jets out there, good mid flow jets that are interchangeable and have loads of flow. Unfortunately, I could not with all good conscience recommend the dynasty, the one I reviewed wasn’t exactly stellar.

    The problem with most neck jets is they are the little low flow jets and they just do not move enough water to really work well.

  105. Reply
    admin March 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Hey Jason.

    God, I love what great marketing guys can come up with πŸ™‚ several brands pitch this “every drop filtered” or 100% filtration and its all bullshit.

    This is just using a buzzword to fool you… How all filter systems really work is the water goes through a filter which cleans all the debris out of the water, then that water gets dumped back into the tub so right away it gets mixed into the unfiltered water… over time more and more water is filtered and after a few hours, there is no debris left. The only way to really have 100% filtration is to pump the water through a filter into another container, then once it is all filtered you can put it back into the hot tub… This is simply dishonest and they should not be claiming it is 100% filtration it is marketing Spin all of it…

    So the Artesian is good but 100 miles might as well be 1000. Once you get past the 50-mile mark most dealers shit the bed unless they specialise in these long-distance arrangements. It can be workable but you don’t really have much in the area for independent service guys so I would be leary, some areas like so-cal have so many independents that you can buy anything with a good remote dealer and a standard OEM parts list and have great service.

    Dr wellness should not be on the shortlist.

    These guys have a few issues but they are probably the largest seller of hot tubs in the world. And in all fairness to them when you do remote sales in the volume they do you are going to have issues from time to time. if you were buying remote then we could have that discussion but with them right there where you can walk into their showroom I would think that’s not an issue.

    Master Pool & Spa
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    http://www.masterpoolandspa.com
    +1 952-253-0665
    3.9View in Google Maps

  106. Reply
    admin March 2, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    Hey mark

    No worries dude welcome!

    So let’s reform your list…

    (Sundance, Jacuzzi) (Caldera, Hot Springs) these are the same companies and the problem I have with both companies and all four brands are two things.

    1. These corporate meatheads are so smart that they figured out the most profitable business model for a hot tub company. In fact, if this was a blog about investing in the hot tub industry these guys would be my number one superstar pick! it’s funny what perspective does though because as an end user these are mid grade spas that cost twice as much as they should because of the money spent convincing people that they are great saps!
    2. Part of the profit model is to make goofy parts that just fit their hot tubs instead of spending the money on good readily available top end parts. This does two things for them. It lowers the cost of producing the product, and it lets them fix the price for parts at whatever they want to charge because you cant get the part anywhere but through them, and the parts are nowhere near as reliable as the good OEM stuff.

    I would personally never put myself in a position of having one source for parts. If you stick with the top OEM brands Like Balboa, Waterways, and even CMP then you will have better reliability and if you ever have an issue you will have lots of competitive places to buy the parts.

    Marquis has good parts good construction and is on my good guy list. curious where did you find marquis, I did a search of the area for you and only found a Master dealer and the other ones you mentioned. send me the details so I can update my database chris@hottubuniversity.com

    Nordic only does entry-level roto mould shells but the build a good entry level spa, the only thing keeping them out of my top list is the insulation which is a combo of old school down and dirty poly foam 3/4″ or so on the shell and some weird fibre batton stuff hanging inside the skirt.

    Passion spas. No idea, I have never heard of them but it’s very rare that these little regional guys build to the right standard, they do not do enough turnover to afford to innovate or indeed to implement innovation when it comes down the pipe.

    So that would leave me with the Marquis or there is a Master dealer here:

    Above & Beyond

    Details from Google Maps
    203 Armour Rd, North Kansas City, MO 64116
    http://www.aboveandbeyondkc.com
    +1 816-421-4011
    4.3View in Google Maps

  107. Reply
    admin March 1, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    Hey Ken

    The low R-value cheap batton style insulation on the Maxx would right away make it a no-go for me. This trend of trying to fool people into believing that a big air gap is an insulation is bonkers… insulation is all about cutting the air up into pockets so that the heat transfer is slowed dramatically. the pitch about trapping the heat in there is also bonkers because you do not need that big empty area to reclaim the motor waste heat, you should spend the money to fill the area, get a great r value then reclaim the heat through the ozone system which all spas do anyway…

    these are not much I like you, you have three master dealers about 200 miles away and there are 2 local independent service guys there. In areas like this where you have resources on the ground, you can buy out of the area and if the dealer is good at communication it can be a good scenario.

  108. Reply
    admin March 1, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    Hi Joe

    No man yer OK as long as you have a good dealer that is used to working with the goofy intricacies of that line.

    My argument about buying that line is that it is marketed as a top tub and then has all these goofy proprietary parts. Then the non-removable skirt it just nuts! I had a customer throw out a 5-year-old top of the line Hot Springs spa because of leaks. they cut the hell out of the sides and then spent ages digging out all that cheap poly foam that had turned to a rock and in the end, they literally cut the tub in half to get rid of it. a simple $200 repair on any tub with Icynene foam and removable sides.

    I guess in the end it’s the duplicity that bugs me… these spas should be the middle price but because of the scads of cash spent on branding and marketing it costs 1/3rd more and that’s a 1/3 they could have spent on building a great spa, using better parts, and improving the insane access issues.

  109. Reply
    admin February 28, 2018 at 2:25 pm

    No Bullfrog is definitely above jacuzzi on my scale, they actually build a pretty decent spa line with an upper mid performance on their top end spas and a good parts list but the shell is ABS which I don’t like, too many failures on those types of pedestal supported shells, they came out in the late 80’s and made a big splash but most people went away from them, they just were not that good.

    There is a Marquis spa dealer near the south bend, they are a decent build better than those ones for sure.

    There are also two master dealers but they are a ways away.

    let me see what I can find.

  110. Reply
    admin February 28, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    Def the Artesian or marquis over the coast. model wise comes down to what you want to use the spa for, talk tot he local sales guys. generally more of the big jets means more expensive and better perfromance.

  111. Reply
    admin February 27, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Price seems good. I like the brand did you see that at Coastal Spa and Patio Store?

    look at the Nordic here as well.

    Spa Tek
    Status: Unverified

    We know nothing about these guys but for entry level spas the Nordic brand is on our good guy list.

    Nordic does entry level well made spas.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    21401 Budlong Ave, Torrance, CA 90502
    spatek.com
    +1 310-539-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  112. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 8:31 pm

    Hi Patricia

    try these guys:

    Coastal Spa and Patio Store
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about the dealer and they carry a confusing group of brands… Look at the Marquis, they might try and bait and switch it by “upselling you to a Hot Springs or Caldera but I would only consider the Artesian.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    735 W Orangethorpe Ave, Placentia, CA 92870
    http://www.coastal-spas.com
    +1 714-693-3404
    3.5View in Google Maps

    Or these guys:

    Spa Tek
    Status: Unverified

    We know nothing about these guys but for entry level spas the Nordic brand is on our good guy list.

    Nordic does entry level well made spas.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    21401 Budlong Ave, Torrance, CA 90502
    spatek.com
    +1 310-539-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  113. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    Hi Jim!

    I can see you are angry mate, anything I can do to help let me know…

    I’m in rural Canada dude, yes, of course, I sell one of the 5 brands I recommend… What kind of credibility would I have if I didn’t???

    I also recommend 2 brands that I compete against in my local market so there is that theory out the window πŸ™‚

    I helped thousands of people in the U.S. buy hot tubs last year, literally, for free for no good reason other than to help. And none of that helped me at all I already dominate the local market… I mean really… Can you imagine having me as a competitor???

    Trust me man, This was for fun so I could yell at the injustices of a messed up industry, now 18 months later its the hottest blog site in the world for hot tubs and I’m still doing it for nothing.

    But I am helping dealers too man. Get in touch and let me know what your local market is like and what brands you carry, I can help you make your business unstressful, profitable and with hundreds of happy customers yelling your praises just like my customers do for me.

    Don’t be a hater, be a changer man… Sell good, sustainable spas and take great care of your customers!

    Have a great day dude and I hope you have success!

  114. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    Hi Patricia!

    Good tub but I would not bother with the micro silk.

    for Psoriasis use aqua finesse, i swear they use in right out of the bottle for eczema

  115. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    So first off both these brands deserve your business they build good spas and are comparable performance wise.

    If you want to split hairs I would veer away from the vector 21 only because of the goofy parts which could be an issue to source down the road. they also renamed everything to confuse people but there does not seem to be any real innovation or anything dramatically different than current tech except the look…

  116. Reply
    admin February 26, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    I would still say the Marquis is the better buy than the other two for sure as long as the dealer is good.

    You also have a local independent service guy there so you could buy out of the market from a fair or something.

    Reno Spa Co
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4050 S McCarran Blvd C, Reno, NV 89502
    http://www.renospa.com
    +1 775-826-3636

  117. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    Lounges are funny, you like the idea because in our dryland environment loungers are comfy… But when I put you in a water environment you are floating so a lounger really doesn’t do much and takes up a ton of room… 80% or so of second-time buyers go no lounger.

    Artesian then Marquis, I only put the Marquis back one because where Artesian and master, and Cal Spas, and several others have invited us to see their facilities to prove they are doing, these guys won’t even return my calls πŸ™‚

    ozone is usually standard and no not worth anything. to do ozone right and worthwhile you really need a complicated system for injection, absorption, and off-gas destruct and you just do not get that in hot tubs because it is a $1000 system instead of the $200 ozone system on hot tubs…

  118. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    So from a build standpoint, they are even.

    Performance wise the Grand Bahama is higher than the Healthy living and slightly lower than the Twilight spa which is the next line up from healthy living.

  119. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    i think they are one of the best if not the best all-round roto mould on the market.

    Good Balboa controls, glued and clamped plumbing, full foam, and really nice new colors.

    The only other one I would even consider is the Nordic, which is the same except the insulation is not as good.

  120. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    Hi Sue

    I had a look around the area.

    Hydropool I would not have on my short list, good parts but a thin cradle supported shell and the insulation is the cheapest available. man stay away from radiant insulation systems there is a good reason why this stuff is not used in regulated industries like primary insulation in construction…

    Not thermospas, Endless pool is good but was just bought by Hot Springs Watkins group so that puts a lot of unknowns out there, and the reality is the Phelps 60″ deep swimmer is just so far ahead of anything out there for build quality, water flow, programmability for interval training that if you are going to spend the money its the best out there by a mile. that whole Phelps thing wasn’t just a paid endorsement. It really was in the true sense of the word a collaboration to build a swim spa good enough to be of value to competitive swimmers. they did hours and hours of training and modifying with Phelps and Bob Bowman and that swimmer is truly in a call of its own.

    I get that seeing a dirty spa can put you off but 2 things… 1. if you run a retail store at some point your display spa will be cloudy the water off. I’ve had a group of people come swim in my swimmer and right after they are out its a mess for half a day while it cleans up because they were covered in sunscreen and lotions and wore t-shirts full of soap from the laundry… I know Ryan the owner of Aquahaven and they usually do a great job but they are also busy out fo market with fairs and stuff. Ryan said they are going to have a Phelps set up to swim in in the next week or so.

  121. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    Hi Myles

    Man Edmonton is just been busy as hell this week, you are the third guy I spoke to there.

    I’ll be honest there are just no brands in my top tier there, no Marquis, or Artesian or twilights, or masters. the best bet is beachcomber locally but man those guys are nuts on the price and the performance only goes ot the mid-upper level on my scale.

    I did a bunch of digging and spoke to three local companies and th a big sale comes through and these local independent service companies have sprung up to handle the delivery and on the ground, parts swapping and repairs.

    We are seeing this in some areas where state fairs, big tent sales and expo type events happen a lot and it can be a good thing for you the end user because these independents do one thing only… fix hot tubs and they are usually better than most retailers πŸ™‚

  122. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    Hi Angie

    We don’t really want to choose a manufacturer we support a way of building hot tubs that we know through experience is going to be sustainable for you the end user.

    Several brands fit the bill.

    check these guys out:

    Master Pool & Spa
    Master Pool And Spa
    6415 Wayzata Blvd, St. Louis Park, MN, 55426
    Phone: 952-543-0220
    info@masterpoolandspa.com

  123. Reply
    admin February 24, 2018 at 3:09 pm

    Hey Tracey

    I toured the Artesian factory this January.

    These guys are building right and making a great hot tub.

    That being said they are small and growing quickly in a large part due to this site and they do not have the back end to handle customers. So you are restricted to your local dealer. I have heard this both from existing, and past dealers and experienced it while trying to arrange to see their factory. That says a lot because through my recommendations about 170 people bought Artesian last year and they cant even return my calls πŸ™‚

    But that’s not all bad, just make sure you have a solid source for good information and there is on the ground service support.

    or go see these guys:

    Davids Home Entertainment
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    Details from Google Maps
    2566 Asheville Rd, Waynesville, NC 28785
    http://www.davidshomeentertainment.com
    +1 828-452-5534
    4.0View in Google Maps

  124. Reply
    admin February 21, 2018 at 7:32 pm

    Hi Terri

    That’s a crazy claim. the soft tub does not have an onboard system that can account for this, alot of people use the spa frog with them but you cant use the enzyme or mineral salt system with them because the filtration rate is too low.

    it’s a lot of money for a vinyl liner spa with a control and heating system that is all proprietary with expensive replacement parts.

  125. Reply
    admin February 21, 2018 at 7:29 pm

    Phoenix Hot Tubs and Swim Spas
    Status: HTU Approved!

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799

    Spa World
    Status: Unverified

    These guys carry Artesian spas, good solid well built spas, the retailer is unverified, have them contact us to become a hot tub University approved center and get extra back up from us on your hot tub purchase!
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4357 E McDowell Rd, Phoenix, AZ 85008
    http://www.azspaworld.com
    +1 602-275-3036
    4.3View in Google Maps

  126. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    not sure what is good or bad with cedar tubs. i would assume aquafinesse or spa marvel would work but check with the tub maker.

  127. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Hi Naomi

    jacuzzi belongs to the group of guys that I feel spend too much on branding and marketing and not enough on the tub. These guys have parts made that only fit their hot tub which means you are now in the unfortunate circumstance of having only one source for parts and limited fall back on service. I would never personally buy or sell a brand that does not use the good NA OEM parts that you can buy easily and competitively.

    email me where you live and ill see what I can find out there πŸ™‚

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  128. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    You have loads of good options:

    our number one rec would be:

    Dougs Pool & Spa
    Status: HTU All-Star
    Endorsed Brands: Master Spas

    Met these guys in Fla good bunch with a great brand –
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5121 S Campbell Ave, Springfield, MO 65810
    http://www.dougspoolandspa.com
    +1 417-882-7665
    5.0View in Google

    or these guys

    Le Dipping Parlor Spas
    Unknown dealer – Endorsed Brands: Nordic, Non-endorsed brands: Sunrise
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    2461 S Campbell Ave, Springfield, MO 65807
    http://www.ledippingparlorspas.com
    +1 417-881-0898
    4.8View in Google Maps

    or these guys:

    American Pool & Spa
    Unknown dealer – Endorsed Brand: Marquis
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    3237 E Sunshine St A, Springfield, MO 65804
    http://www.myamericanpool.com
    +1 417-887-0577
    4.4View in Google Maps

  129. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    Hi David

    WiFi – Dogy on tubs sometimes due to signal shielding from the water.
    Stereo – Make sure its blue tooth
    ABS pan – Here nor there, frankly as long as you have a decent base its really not an issue.
    a better cover for sure
    better warranty is your level of comfort, the average will always be lower than the cost fo the extension but its luck really.

    check out the Twilights and MPL’s here as well.

    Suntek Pools & Spas
    Status: HTU ALL_STAR
    Brands: Master

    Met with these folks and had a good couple days together, they have a good operation and a good brand.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1282 Broad Hollow Road (Route 110), (Opposite Home Depot & the Airport Plaza), Farmingdale, NY 11735
    suntekpoolsandspas.com
    +1 631-249-7727
    4.3View in Google Maps

  130. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    Hi

    Caldera is owned by Watkins who owns Hot Springs, endless pool, limelight etc. ^Thesee guys don’t make my list because of the parts. Instead of using the really good reliable proven parts like Balboa heating and controls they get parts made to just fit their spas.. its a good ploy… cheaper parts, and you are locked in forever because you can only get the paRTS FROM THEM πŸ™‚

    I would never buy or sell a brand that does do not use the good OEM parts…

    go see these guys

    Sun Leisure Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified
    Approved Brand: Marquis

    We don’t know jack about the dealer but the brand is solid.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    6323, 960 S McCarran Blvd, Sparks, NV 89431
    http://www.sunleisurepools.net
    +1 775-359-6073
    4.3View in Google Maps

  131. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    Hi David

    Sorry for the delay, My wife was hospitalised Friday and is sick as heck.

    Anyway… yer right if you have to buy out of the market than Costco seems like a safe bet because of the return policy but their spas are crap…

    Your market is a mess, loads of goofy brands and of course the big fancy marketing brands I don’t like the Hot Springs and Sundance Spas, these guys spend too much on the brand name bs and not enough on the hot tub.. goofy proprietary parts and in some cases even no removable skirts! these things are overpriced mid grade spas wrapped in beautiful marketing.

    I went through 15 different retailers and there is nothing on my top list at all.

    go see these guys, a bit out of the way but top brands.

    Hice’s Pool Spa & Patio
    Status: HTU Approved
    Brands: Master, H2x, Clarity, Twilight

    These guys have a great line of spas and good service.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    507 W Lincoln St, Tullahoma, TN 37388
    http://www.facebook.com
    +1 931-455-2500
    5.0View in Google Maps
    35.35733, -86.21697

  132. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:36 pm

    not on my good guy list dude, mid grade.

    see these guys:

    Cedar Works Spa & Sauna
    Status: Unverified
    Brand: Marquis

    We don’t know these guys but they carry marquis wich is a good spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    4065 W 11th Ave #16, Eugene, OR 97402
    http://www.cedarworksspas.com
    +1 541-485-6800
    4.3View in Google Maps

  133. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    Hi Egypt.

    Yeah the US has a lot more options.

    personally, i would not go salt, its old tech from the 90’s being reintroduced as the new thing. IOts ok-ish but highly corrosi9ve to the tub and decking and concrete, and all it does in make chlorine πŸ™‚ the levels are mid around 1-3 PPm but with newer tech, you can get down to half a part per million. see this video:

    go see H2X swim spas, these guys are deeper, flow more water, better built, better insulated and if you use the eco pure system they have with aqua finesse you can get the easiest lowest chemical levels of any hot tub or swim spa out there... 3x lower than the old salt systems.

    call grif...

    griffryan@hotmail.com>
    Griffin Ryan
    416 779 0563

  134. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    Hi Tim

    Sorry for the delay in responding, my wife was hospitalised Friday and I’ve been a little preoccupied.

    Man, I have a few guys in the area but none that do really high-end stuff, they all are entry levels brands. I do have a guy for service there though and we might be able to arrange something through him, Frankly, none of the brands near you I would have on my short list, the nearest marquis, Artesian or Master guy i can find is 56 miles which should be in the ok range for a good dealer

    check these guys out:

    Crocker Sales Co Inc
    These guys have helped a pile of HTU customers and I have had nothing but good feedback from them
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    9 High St, Woburn, MA 01801
    http://www.crocker-sales.com
    +1 781-933-2006
    4.2View in Google Maps

  135. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hi Niel.

    Yeah, they had circ pump. its why you never hear me endorse the LSX line… They now have it available without a circ pump πŸ™‚

    Ill email you with some solutions.

    The eco pure is all about getting rid of chlorine and bromine. breathing in that steam is bad news. I like eco pure, or nature 2 or spa frog with an enzyme like spa marvel or a mineral salt like aquafitness. super easy to manage and reliable and super low chemical.

  136. Reply
    admin February 20, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    You know its funny.

    I always say a great brand with a crap dealer is worse than a mid-grade brand with a good dealer.

    It sounds like all of your issues here were dealer related… no reason any new spa of any brand cant be fixed or replaced in a week.

    what was it that was wrong?

  137. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    Good Tub High price. But NY is pricey.

    Frog is a zinc copper or silver Ion, it works well with aqua finesse or an enzyme system. better cover yes lights are nice and inexpensive

  138. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    HOLY CRAP THATS DAMN NEAR WE OLD STOMPIN GROUNDS πŸ™‚

    go see these guys:

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL-STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

    or

    Niagara Hot Tubs
    Unknown Dealer – Carries Master Spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    227 Bunting Rd, St. Catharines, ON L2M 3Y2
    http://www.niagarahottubs.com
    +1 905-684-0770
    5.0View in Google Maps

  139. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    Neither are great choices, the jacuzzi suffers from an abysmal goofy parts list that they make to just fit their tub so they can own your ass for parts forever, the Hydropppol has great parts but the thin cradle supported shell and the cheap insulation and the old self-cleaning floor systems make it a total no-go for me.

  140. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    Hi Greg.

    both brands are built very similarly.

    the master beast it out at the higher end of the Twilight line but in the mid-end stuff, it’s very similar.

    I toured the Master Factory and they opened their whole operation up so we could verify what they are doing but the Marquis guys won’t let me in which always makes me wonder what they are hiding πŸ™‚

    That is absolutely the most expensive and best insulation method and does not affect the maintenance issues because it is a special expensive foam that does not harden.

  141. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    Hi Ginger

    sorry for the late response, my wife was hospitalised Friday and its all been kind of flat out since then.

    Nothing right in your area but over near Raleigh…

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com
    +1 919-772-7745
    4.4View in Google Maps

  142. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    Hi Lisa.

    a sick wife, busy week here is the short of it πŸ™‚

    the only brand i like there is these guys :

    Splash Pools and Spas
    Status: Unverified

    Artesian is a good brand but we don’t know the dealer and have not reviewed them.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    8030 Philips Hwy, Jacksonville, FL 32256
    splashpoolsandspas.com
    +1 904-737-9999
    3.7View in Google Maps

    But you have 3 local service guys, these independents mean you can buy any tub with a good compliant parts list and likely have a good service level.

  143. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    there are lots of the usual suspects out here.

    sorry for the lack of response, my wife is sick.

    I would check out the Masters here:

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends, personally viewed the operation and met the people.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

    Or I would go see the marquis spas here:\

    AquaPRO Pools & Hot Tubs
    Status: Unverified

    The dealer is unknown to us but the Brand Marquis is well built. They range from entry level to mid upper performance.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    18025 Yonge St #1, Newmarket, ON L3Y 8C9
    http://www.aquapropools.ca
    +1 855-905-7665
    4.2View in Google Maps

  144. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    Yeah, mixed results. I’m not going to endorse it right now. we found the tub’s water felt really oily and we needed to shock it and chlorinate it a bit.

  145. Reply
    admin February 19, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    hi Greg

    Sorry for the delay in responding my wife was checked into the hospital a couple days going so It’s been a bit mad around here.

    Right off the bat, the jacuzzi in the Hot Springs wouldn’t be on my shortlist. The problem with these guys as they spend too much money on The Branding in the marketing and not enough money on building a hot tub. These are your mid-grade Spas wrapped and beautiful branding made to look like a high-end product. Goofy things like proprietary parts that you can’t Source easily, non-removable sides and other cost-cutting measures just take these guys out of my top range.

    The Master Spa range is one of my go-to Brands. Things like hand-rolled self-supporting shells glued and clamped Plumbing lines, good North American parts list and a full foam insulation package make it hard to compete against. If you can find a Marquis or Artesian dealer they’re also a good tub built very similarly.

  146. Reply
    admin February 16, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    Hi Carol

    The Arctics I don’t like for the same reason I don’t like the jacuzzi’s… lots of cheap goofy parts that they have made to just for their spas so they own you for life. I would never consider a brand without Balboa heating and control system. Hydropool has a good parts list but the shell is a thin cradle supported shell and that Mylar insulation is junk… I can’t believe after we finally got rid of that stuff in the home building industry it’s rearing its ugly head 20 years later as some new miracle tech… It’s cheap and low R-value.

    Beachcomber is a good tub but stay away from the goofy Hybrid option get it with the integrated pumps under the hot tub, but man they are so overpriced and the Performance is upper mid at best.

    Beachcomber Hot Tubs London
    Status: Unverified.

    These guys are an unknown to us but the carry Beachcomber which in the non Hybrid Model is in our good guy list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    754 Wharncliffe Rd S, London, ON N6J 2N4
    http://www.bht-london.com
    +1 519-681-0249
    4.9View in Google Maps

    for higher end go to these guys:

    Premium Wholesale Home & Leisure
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys are a big operation with a good service and backup support staff. Carrying Master, Twilight, H2X and MP legends
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    17 Manitou Dr, Kitchener, ON N2C 2J6
    http://www.premiumwholesale.ca
    +1 519-895-0606
    4.5View in Google Maps

  147. Reply
    admin February 16, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    Hey Nate.

    The Twilight or the Marquis for sure out of that lot. the Bullfrog has a thin ABS plastic shell with pedestal supports to keep it together and the other 2 brands have hand-rolled fibreglass self-supported hulls… Miles better and more expensive to build.

    The advantage of the Twilight is there is better jetting, and the twin diverters mean you can divert a whole 6 Hp pump tot he main captains seat and the same with the other pump to the foot monster jets. check out this video I shot of my Twilight.

  148. Reply
    admin February 15, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    Ahhh

    That’s why I’m getting so much action down there this week!

    Man, I searched that area large this week and it explains why the independent service market is so buoyant there are like 4 guys down there doing service.

    It depends on the brand at the expo if it’s a good brand there are lots of resources on the ground for getting service done and you are probably fine if it’s a crap brand then it’s a crap brand.

    Drop me an email on chris@hottubuniversity.com and let me know who is doing it and ill look into it.

  149. Reply
    admin February 15, 2018 at 8:24 pm

    Hey Jay

    man, that area of the country is downright dysfunctional when it comes to hot tubs. not many retailers and the ones that are left are all the big brand names like Hot Springs and Jacuzzi or low-end junk. the problem with the big heavily branded lines is a lot of fo times they are using goofy proprietary parts so they can screw you for life with crazy parts costs because no one can get you parts, I never look at brands that do not carry the top quality parts list. Not only will these parts be a lot more reliable but you will never have issues getting parts and the parts will be competitively priced because you can get them at loads of places online and in retail stores, plus when you stick with a good American made parts list you can get local service guys to fix it reliably.

    there is one gem down there… Nordic spas which do a great priced line that is built well. In cold climates like Canada, I would be hesitant because the insulation is not my number one rated system

  150. Reply
    admin February 15, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    Hi Danielle

    Its a labour of love but its starting to crush me πŸ™‚

    Of your list, I would recommend the Artesian I visited the factory this year and these guys although small are building a good solid hot tub. Again due to the size of the facility their range of products doesn’t get into crazy therapy massage spas where it is all about the massage but they do cover that other 90% really well.

    I saw Cal Spas this year and did the factory tour and they are really working at the quality control and back-end support for their customers which is great to see but it’s not going onto my number one list right now, we will revisit them for 2019 maybe. The shell was a bit of a letdown, it’s not a hand-rolled shell and they support it with 2×3’s to offset it and the metal which looks like angle iron in the marketing really was thin strips of metal similar in strength to the edging you use ion drywall and will make very little difference to the structure of the tub. They also went to Waterways control systems on all but their top stuff and although Waterways makes great plastic parts moving to this electronic control and heating system could be a big risk.

    For install have the finished tub about 18″ to 20″ (chair height) above the deck, then you can walk up to the tub sit on the edge of the spa and swing your legs over. If you mount it down into the deck you have to get on the floor to get in and then up from the floor when you get out…

    The booster seat is a good solution, you will find spas are built for the average size, short people always have an issue with the depth, some spas have one higher seat (cool down seat) but it is usually too shallow.

    In the 6k number try and find a good roto mould, the new ones look good and there are some that are really built well like Getaway Spas, and Nordic Spas. Rebuilds can be good or a freeking nightmare.. make sure you get a 2 year parts and labour even if you have to pay a couple hundred, if i have a great refurb Im willing to guarantee it

    For the water cleansing, you right ignore it all for now and ping me when you get going don’t order any of the upgraded chemical reduction systems, if they are standard then fine but don’t spend more money on this it’s already a solved problem.

    Maintenance is the basic stuff, rinse your filters, balance your water. unless there is an issue there is really not a lot to do. most customer “issues” are really just them not having the information in a timely fashion, the actual on the ground service is both easy and reliably done by any decent handyman with a good back up support staff for troubleshooting and you can always use us for that.

    I had a look around and there are not many good options for you. check out the artesian dealer here:

    Hot Tub Spa Store
    Status Unverified

    We know nothing about the local guy and he carries a weird mix of spas but the Artesian he sells is a good spa the rest are not brands I would buy or sell.

    Details from Google Maps
    10755 Scripps Poway Pkwy Ste 409, San Diego, CA 92131
    http://www.spastore.com
    +1 858-210-8062
    5.0View in Google Maps

  151. Reply
    admin February 14, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    They don’t clamp their plumbing lines and the insulation if you live in a cold area would be a no-go for me.

    I searched the Chesapeake area and there is a guy out a bit from you that does Master which is one of my goto brands.

    Innovative Spas
    Status: HTU ALL STAR

    These guys I have met and spoken to and have a good operation with a great line of spas
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    155 S Rosemont Rd, Virginia Beach, VA 23452
    http://www.innovativespas.com
    +1 757-490-7727

  152. Reply
    admin February 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Hi Tommy

    Man, that’s a busy area this month, you are the fourth person out there and there is just not a lot of good choices unless you go to Cinci.

    There must be a big state fair or a big yearly hot tub sale in the area because there are 4 independent service guys right in your area.

    The only semi-local option I would have on my shortlist is these guys:

    Tim’s Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We do not know the dealer but they carry Artesian which is a good reliable spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1065 Reading Rd, Mason, OH 45040
    http://www.timshottubstoremasonoh.com
    +1 513-777-3833
    4.6View in Google Maps

  153. Reply
    admin February 13, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Nordic builds a good tub. It’s my number 2 on the Rotomould spas and the only reason it is isn’t number one is the insulation and even that’s not terrible, they use a bit of foam and then a blanket inside the skirt.

    It shows you in Manhatten if that right then checks out these two guys below if not email me on chris@hottubuniversity.com

    East Coast Spas
    Status HTU ALL STAR

    I met with these guys several times and they just do a great job they have helped out at least 15 or 20 HTU customers, they carry Getaway very similar to the Nordic with better insulation.

    Details from Google Maps
    1424 Easton Rd #300, Hatboro, PA 19040
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    +1 215-420-7106
    4.1View in Google Maps

    I don’t know these guys but they carry Marquis which is a good all-round hot tub brand.

  154. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    Sonja, I am assuming you mean Premium Leisure. I’m pretty sure these guys got bought by an outfit in Tenn recently.

    Last time I looked they were using gecko heating and control systems, I’m really hardline on having a Balboa system. I also think they use a radiant insulation system.

    for the pumps, I like the Waterways or the Balboa.

    I cant find much in the area to recommend to you I looked at all the dealers there and can’t find any of my goto brands πŸ™

    I also see 3 separate independent service guys, when a market has this many independents it usually means either there are some service issues from the retailers or a lot of people are buying from out of the market at tent sales or state fairs. if you look at those options email me chris@hottubuniversity.com and ill call the local service guys and see if they know what they are doing.

  155. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    Beachcomber hybrid is old tech and I would order it without this “Upgrade” its bad science… pumping all your water outside of the insulation envelope makes zero sense and you lose the ability to reclaim the motor waste heat and you have a higher risk of fast freeze up equipment damage in power outages… All this downside so you can stuff a little more insulation in an area that already has 3-4x more insulation than 80% of the hot tub! and they are out to lunch on pricing. read this review.

    110v means very limited usage in the winter for you there. these 110v heaters cant keep up with the heat loss, on a cold day you only get 10 to 15 mins on the best ones before its not a hot tub anymore.

  156. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    I’m not a fan of Premium in general, Not a brand I would sell or buy.

    go see these guys, they do Marquis spas, a good well built reliable spa with a good easy to source parts list. They also do some really dodgy brands, they might be using the Marquis to get you in and then “upgrade” you to the other stuff…

    https://uniquepsb.com/

  157. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    I Like beachcomber from the build quality standpoint if you stay away from the Hybrid models, but performance wise they really only build up to the mid-upper end for massage.

    For that usage time a plug is fine if you don’t care about the massage end that much, you just can’t flow enough water on a 110v system for the hi flow therapy jets.

    Kingston I know well, I grew up in southern Ontario and have friends there.

    In the are you have Maxx, Hydropool, Sundance all brands I would not have on my floor for one reason or another.

    There are two local pool shops that do service for hot tubs, likely because the expo is there a lot usually this generates a pretty robust independent service industry and that can be a good thing if they are on the ball.

  158. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hey Sonya!

    It’s a jungle out there!

    Definitely the Marquis over the Hot Springs. Marquis is one of my goto brands and HS i would never consider selling or buying, goofy proprietary parts and non-removable sides with old poly based foams are just three huge strikes in my book.

    these guys carry Artesian, they make a great spa.

    https://www.wacopoolstore.com/

    OR

    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com/

    these guys carry Marquis, and Nordic again solid well built spas.

    http://www.premierehottubs.com/Premiere-Hot-Tubs—Austin-v2-207.html

    or

    https://www.lewakins.com/

  159. Reply
    admin February 12, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    Hi Steve.

    Other than regional differences (small rural areas vs massive city’s) prices are fairly similar across the most lines a good retailer can usually sell at the same price as the big tent sales and state fairs and expos.

    Everyone quotes the pie in the sky retail, then the middle price is where you typically sell it. Getting a floor model can be the way to go and $10k for that tub in any market is low.

  160. Reply
    admin February 11, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    Happy birthday to you! Happy… aww crap I’m on vacation and just can’t type the whole thing out on my phone!

    via GIPHY

    There! sorry for the delay… I had to find a girl who would have my baby then make the giff… exhausting…

    Nothing around you I would buy, but there is a guy a little away.

    you also have a pretty good independent service industry there so state fairs or out of area sales events might be a scenario as long as you stay away from the brands with goofy proprietary parts.

    check out these guys…

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com

  161. Reply
    admin February 11, 2018 at 2:01 pm

    Dr Welness is not a brand I would have anywhere near my short list.

    so many gimmicks and no real substance.

    Goofy parts, although I heard they might offer balboa control and heating systems which would at least get them out of the basement but then radiant barrier insulation? man, this stuff was basically banned in the housing industry in the northern states int he 80’s and all of sudden 20 years later its the miracle insulation for hot tubs and it cost 10x less πŸ™‚

    Then those friction heaters LMFAO… that tech is so bass backward it’s not even funny. first electrical immersion heaters are super efficient near to 100% of the energy that goes into those heaters get into the water as heat energy. friction heaters, on the other hand, are horribly inefficient… think about the progression…

    1. we take electricity and convert it to mechanical energy in the electric motor inefficient as hell
    2. We transfer that energy into water pressure with the pump and get big losses in the transfer
    3. then we transfer that energy back into mechanical energy of friction… again huge loss
    4. then we transfer the mechanical energy into heat… Bonkers… this is just bullshit science to try and create a unique selling feature.

    Colorado Custom Spas
    Status: Unverified

    These guys carry a couple brands but Artesian is the only one on my short list.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    5270 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216
    coloradocustomspas.com
    +1 303-468-8827

  162. Reply
    admin February 11, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Hi eric

    San fran has a ton of small local service guys, you should be ok down there.

    I wouldn’t order with any extras, Masterpur is as good or better than most of the chem reduction systems but the lowest chem and easiest to maintain is the standard eco pure system and Aquafinesse… I get to 1/2 a part per million of chlorine. I also hate circ pumps… bad tech with loads of issues and no upside at all and you can only get masterpur with circ pump.

  163. Reply
    admin February 9, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Not big fan.

    dont like pressure side filtration, dont like floor suctions(self cleaning) and definately do not like the radient barrier insualation…

    shell is ok parts are good all in all not somthing I would recomend especially as its sold as a high end spa, for that kid of money you can get somthing built better with way better insuation.

  164. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    The lounge seats are funny first time buyers buy them second time don’t, they take up a lot of room and the reality is you are floating… things like loungers and countoured chairs matter very little in a water environment.

    coast with full foam is a not a nightmare, they are not in my recommended brands but certainly better than a Hot Springs Jacuzzi type set up with all the goofy parts lists.

    There is a dealer for Master about 76 km away im not sure if they service your area but they should have somthing in the price range.

    East Coast Spas Inc.
    1424 Easton Road, Suite 300, Horsham, PA, 19040
    Phone: 732-823-8606
    ben@eastcoastspas.com
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com
    Your local Master Spas dealer is 76.2 miles away.
    Dealer match type: assigned zip
    From Database: masterspas

  165. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Hey Jay

    there are a few good independent service guys around you so you should be fine. Ill call them when i get back in town and make sure they know thier stuff.

    email me wht you want and ill see what I can set up for you.

    chris@hottubuniversity.com

  166. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    Hi Pam

    ground Pep wise simply put down a patio stone base. you basically remove the grass and top soil put in crusher dust, level and tamp and drop on patio stones… 16 24″ stones gives you a good 8′ base.

    Viking is not a brand I would buy sell or endorse, you need at least the 4 main things and they just don’t do them…

    I looked around the area and you have lots of the usual suspects… mid grade spas that are spending too much on branding and bullshit and not enough on building a great hot tub.

    On the other hand you have highly developed independent service network, there are 5 guys there specializing in just service, this is great because these guys are usually a lot better than retailers for the service and it lets you get anything you want as long as you stick with a good parts list.

  167. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    Hey Nick

    I’m on the beach so I’m gonna make this quick, i need some R&R πŸ™‚

    Vita is not a brand i would carry buy or sell :-0 You really want at a minimum the big 4 things and they fall down on two of them. I also hate those old school floor domes! omg we got rid of those in the 90’s because you trip on the damn things all the time, you bleed tons of heat through the floor because you have the hot water running under the foot well and the damn jets are useless for feet anyway… the only way those tough old feet of yours are going to get and real massage is with a dedicated 10″ monster jet with ta diverter system to allow a whole pump to power it up.

    Man i must have gone through 40 stores in your area and beyond and there is very little out there try these guys

    Spa & Pool Outlet
    Status: Unverified
    We know nothing about these guys but the carry Artesian and Marquis spas, 2 of our goto brands they also have some junk lines which always makes me wonder what the hell they are doing…

    7963 Fayetteville Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603
    http://www.spapooloutlet.com
    +1 919-772-7745

  168. Reply
    admin February 8, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    Hey JP

    I’m on the beach for a week of R&R so I’m gonna keep this short the 9 am daily special rum drink is calling from the pool bar :-0

    For you the parts are key, rental units take a bashing, also look at going to a rotomould shell… safer for slip and falls as its textured and always looks clean and its indestructible… for rental its perfect.

    I look around the area and there is not much to cheer about out there, but you do have a good local guy who does service for all brands.

    I’m not over the moon with either brand but the salinas would be the better of the two.

  169. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    Pam, I looked everywhere over to Lexington, down to Elizabeth town and around to Cinci and the only thing I found that I would shortlist is out in Bloomington Which funnily enough is where my lovely Wife was born πŸ™‚ and up near Hamilton north of Cinc πŸ™

    the 110v systems really limit how long you can use them in cold weather and you really need to make sure you get a really well-insulated spa. go 220v if you can.

    Indiana Pools & Spas, Inc.
    Status: Unverified

    We don’t know anything about these guys other than they carry Marquis which for this area is the best its gonna get.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1206 S Walnut St, Bloomington, IN 47401
    http://www.indianapoolsandspas.net
    +1 812-334-3900

    Tim’s Pools & Spas
    Status: Unverified

    We do not know the dealer but they carry Artesian which is a good reliable spa.
    Remove
    Details from Google Maps
    1065 Reading Rd, Mason, OH 45040
    http://www.timshottubstoremasonoh.com
    +1 513-777-3833

  170. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    Hi Richard

    Salt systems are an old technology from the 80’s being regurgitated as new miracle systems. My advice is to stay away from it… it just makes chlorine or bromine out of highly corrosive salts, it’s hard to manage, unreliable, and only gets you to around 1-3ppm of chlorine or bromine!!! You are breathing that into your lungs!!! the aftermarket stuff like Aquafinesse is what you want… gets you to around .5 ppm if used with an ion mineral cartridge like eco pure or spa frog or nature II. See this article

    Not a fan of the fancy brands with all the goofy proprietary parts. Hot Springs are not super high-end spas, they are mid grade spas with goofy parts, beautiful branding and marketing and you can’t even take the sides off when you have a failure… look the through the forums and count the number of people looking for help fixing Hot Springs spas… these things are not reliably working in the field and when you get a failure expect to pay through the nose because there is only one source for the parts!

    Clearwater tropic seas and Maxx are middle of the road, Just the insulation is enough to make me run for the hills. there are no shortcuts or miracles… it’s crazy… we would never have this conversation in a regulated industry like the home building industry because we have codes to adhere to, these radiant barriers and batton type insulation systems used in hot tubs would never, ever, qualify anywhere in the world for home building so why should it be good enough for your hot tub which has a much higher heat loss due to the larger temperature difference? You want R-value!!! full foam Ivcynene if possible.

    And forget the

    Go see these guys they do marquis, it covers all the right things.

    Seattle Hot Tub Company
    Details from Google Maps
    11435 120th Ave NE Suite C, Kirkland, WA 98033
    http://www.seattlehottub.com
    +1 425-869-7727
    5.0View in Google Maps

  171. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Hey Fred.

    Sorry about the crap interface I am not a computer guy and I made this mess myself, I have a guy fixing it and making it a bit more friendly πŸ™‚

    That Hot Springs would have goofy power to the site, it would have had 2 lines a 30 and a 20 (I think)

    The problem is you need a 50 amp for every other tub on the planet… Talk to a sparky and see if they can put the 30 and the 20 back together in a pony panel and then run a 50amp GFI from the pony tot he tub…

    I’m not impressed with the choices If we can get you to a good parts list and away from the goofy proprietary parts it would be good. The ones that do have good parts in that list have other issues like ABS pedestal supported shells or cheap batton style or reflective foil insulation… I always try and at least get the 4 main things in a tub.

    I went through like 30 places from Buffalo to Syracuse and there is just not any brands I would buy or sell. I guess if I had to it would be a Cal Spa from these guys. I toured the Cal Factory this month and while they are not in my tier one group, they really seem to be making strides towards a better customer care and quality control process, we declined to put them in my tier one group but if they can reduce their skews (they have a bizarrely high number of spas for their volume) and clean up the back end they might become a player again.

    Hearth & Homes, USA
    Details from Google Maps
    9844 River Rd, Utica, NY 13502
    hearthandhomeusa.net
    +1 315-798-8887

  172. Reply
    admin February 5, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    The rotomoulded shells are usually pretty durable, but the parts are not great. The style of click in jet they use looks like the ones with the little tabs on them and they are notorious for breaking. Its also looks like they are moving from Balboa control and heating system to Gecko, I won’t buy anything without Balboa on board. I also am not a fan of Batt style insulating, it’s cheap and cheerful, better than reflective radiant barriers but nowhere near as good or as high of an Rvalue as a good full foam Icynene system.

    Go see the new Getaway Hot Tubs, better parts better insulation and similar price,

    These guys have my 5 start recommendation, I just spent 4 days with these the boys from Phoenix and they are doing all the right things. By from these guys and get HTU Approved put on your original invoice and you can use us if you have any issues and we will stand behind you and use our big stick to wack them into compliance πŸ™‚ “HTU APPROVED” must appear on the original invoice!

    Details from Google Maps
    1746 W Ruby Dr Suite 104, Tempe, AZ 85284
    phoenix.swimspas.us
    +1 480-389-9799
    5.0View in Google Maps

  173. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Hi Janette

    Salt systems are an old technology from the 80’s being regurgitated as new miracle systems. My advice is to stay away from it… it just makes chlorine or bromine out of highly corrosive salts, it’s hard to manage, unreliable, and only gets you to around 1-3ppm of chlorine or bromine!!! You are breathing that into your lungs!!! the aftermarket stuff like Aquafinesse is what you want… gets you to around .5 ppm if used with an ion mineral cartridge like eco pure or spa frog or nature II. See this article

  174. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 4:45 pm

    Hey, paul. I haven’t done a review of the area but I spent a week at a conference with the guys from Nationwide Spas, they have a big operation and carry really good brands. I’ll try and look for any other options but these would be my goto guys down there.

    It funny they wanted me to fly down and see their operation, it’s great when we get active dealers letting us have full disclosure.

    1834 Ferguson Drive, Austin , TX, 78754
    Phone: 512-364-1472
    jason@nationwidespas.com
    http://www.nationwidespas.com

  175. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 4:41 pm

    Not sure the only thing i could find was the Coast spa curve…

  176. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    Hi Jacey

    Never heard of Mira so I did some digging. it uses a good parts list but I hate those ABS plastic shells with the polyurethane backings, cheap to build but not strong enough to support its own weight, they usually have to put props and supports under the shell to keep it from breaking. I want a good hand rolled self-supporting shell. And some goofy green tech insulation they allude to… likely radiant or cheap batton insulation.

    funny enough I just looked at the other one and Clearwater is doing the same kind of pedestal supported shell and radiant barrier insulation.

    I cant recommend either of these.

    I looked at at least 20 places around Philly and NJ and i see all the usual suspects but only 2 gems…

    -Click the square on the upper right corner of the map to view larger map
    -zoom in on the map to your area
    -click on the markers I dropped and read the info I put in
    – You can toggle on if you are looking for just service, or just a good brand or a Hot Tub University approved Retailer which means we know these guys and they are doing good work, we stand behind them by offering our help if you ever buy from one of our endorsed dealers and you need help. It’s a new system I’m trying out!

  177. Reply
    admin February 4, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Hi William.

    I’m not a fan of that brand at all, their branding is awesome, their marketing is spot on and the tubs are full of goofy proprietary parts so they can lock you in forever at whatever price they dictate… and some of the models don’t even have removable skirts! it’s insane…

    Man get something with a good reliable easy to source parts list, they last longer, work better and are competitively priced because you have tons of sources to buy the parts.

    I looked around the Santa Cruze area but to be honest I don’t care for any of the brands out there.

    There is a crazy high number of independent service guys though (5 separate companies). Its a really developed market and sometimes we see this where a lot of the tubs in the area are coming form Expos or state fairs.

    It can be a good thing, these little independent guys are usually good, competitively priced, and if there is someone to handle your calls for the information and the back end of the parts end you can have a good level of care.

  178. Reply
    admin February 1, 2018 at 10:09 pm

    Hi Joni

    It really depends on a few things.

    I had a look in your area and not surprisingly there are 4 separate independent guys within 10 minutes of you… crazy, But either way you have a good fallback position.

    And if you need help just call me and ill wack them with my big stick πŸ™‚

    Check out the local service guys out there.

  179. Reply
    admin February 1, 2018 at 4:10 pm

    I had a quick boo and right away the control systems not a Balboa, frankly at that point I did not look any further.

    I had a look around the area and populated the map in your area but man there are not a lot of options… and you have like 3 independent guys who do service in the area which means you can buy from anyone around a likely have a good support network.

    My mom lives just North of you and She bought a swim spa from South East Spas in West Palm and They have taken good care of her with a local service guy.

  180. Reply
    admin February 1, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    Any of the first 3 are good buys. I do really like the new shell design on the Clarity, that’s a brand new mould and the foot room is epic, you can really pack a ton of people in it.

  181. Reply
    admin January 31, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Linda go back to them they also sell Artesian, it is a much better-built spa than the Bullfrog by a mile, better shell, better performance… they will try and sell you the bullfrog as a higher end only because they get a better margin on that line, its over priced and overhyped… too many goofy gimmicks.

  182. Reply
    admin January 31, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    I use it with the eco pure (spa frog, nature 2 are similar) and ozone this further cuts down the needed chlorine. I use tabs and a floating dispenser and dial it down to a trickle and go 9-12 months on a batch of water at .5ppm… (you can buy af with tabs or grans)

    I have hundreds and hundreds of customers on this system and it is the easiest lowest chem combo I have ever found, but it’s pricy…

  183. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Hey Ryan

    This group has bought a few mid-range retailers. Not on my go-to list this is mid to entry level and would not be something I would sell a customer.

    I’ve been goofing on this google map customization thing I found so I did your area.

    Have a boo… None of these pricks are paying me anything yet but they are doing good things πŸ™‚

    The dealer I know there sells Getaway spas, its a good roto with good parts and good efficiency.

  184. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Hi Connie!

    You are making me work πŸ™‚ never heard of them so I called the factory. This will not be on my recommended list, they recently moved to gecko heating and control system, and while at least it has a readily available parts list I won’t buy anything not using Balboa, These guys hold some key patents and have 30 years making heating and control systems for hot tubs and they work well, are reliable and its dead easy to get parts and service.

    They also use eco batt insulation, cheap and cheerful, I want to see a good Icynene full foam system.

    Last they use an old style click in jet, you need to go either waterway threaded or the new CMP blade lock, I don’t know what they call it but there are 2 blades that lock in and the failure rate has been almost non-existent according to the three factories I toured this year so far.

    I had a boo around the area have a look at the ones below.

  185. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 5:26 pm

    Hi Karl.

    I’m really off with the abysmal communication from these guys. I pinged them 8 to 10 times after I put about 200 tubs generating $600k into their tills and I can’t even get a callback… I posed as me, a perspective dealer, and a troubled customer and Natta… and I’m not even trying to sell them anything! I’m just trying to get real hard answers and visibility so I can recommend them with confidence. Its either doggy as hell, underserved like crazy, or simply disorganised as a flea market… no idea…

    I have a lot of questions about the vector 21… it all seems to be buzzwords and spin with nothing other than the look changed, and that change means more proprietary parts which is never a good thing.

    So you can help me πŸ™‚ email me any details you found… chris@hottubuniversity.com

    The cartridges are basically like Spa Frog, Eco Pure, and any of the other silver/zink/copper ion systems, they work ok but you will be nearer the 1+ ppm chlorine level which is better than the salt systems at 1-3 ppm but not as good as the Aquafinesse mineral system at .5 ppm. I would use the frog at ease with the Aquafinesse (or spa marvel if I want to keep costs down).

    I went through your area and man there is not much good news nearby, I even went out further… have a look below.

  186. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    Hi Steve.

    No one want you to have that info… you should see the massive pressure I am getting from brands out there asking me to go away LMFAO!!!

    The pricks want you dazed and confused because when it comes down to sales guys instead of product quality, spin and branding instead of real science, and half-truths and lies instead of reliability.

    Price is a different kettle of fish… it changes dramatically regionally because of distance from the factory, local costs like rent and taxes, the volume of sales and quality of after support…

    That’s what this site was all about… cutting through the bullshit and looking at the real science behind the spin and marketing… I’m so fed up with all the bullshit!!!

  187. Reply
    admin January 30, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Hey BP

    Back 15 years ago everything was built reasonably well, its funny as our tech gets better or bullshit machine gets better too, it seems like we know how to make something last just long enough πŸ™‚ I liked D1 but Jacuzzi is on a bizarre buying binge buying up these goofy brands and D1 is one of them.

    So Jacuzzi and Hot Springs are a no go for me… goofy parts that are nowhere near as reliable as the good OEM stuff and you are held for ransom for ridiculous prices on replacements because they have you by the balls, they are the only guys who can get you parts… It’s the oldest trick in the book, build a mid-grade spa spend scads on branding and marketing and use a goofy proprietary parts list so you own the customer forever. access issues, and just overpriced for what it is… Never buy a hot tub without the Balboa heating and control system on it.

    Coast, the issue I have is pressure side filtration… old tech being reintroduced as innovation, there are a lot of downsides and no upsides… You absolutely want the water filtered on the suction side before it goes through the heater and pump… and crap insulation.

    Maxx the insulation is a joke… This Bluemaxx insulation competes with the best batton / celulose style insulation out there is around R-3.5 per inch or about a quarter less than 1″ of Icynene expanded foam… Now I always go back to the building code… in a house, this insulation type would need to be around 6″ think to meet code, so why is it ok suddenly in a hot tub to have 1.5 to 2″ of it???? It’s not… in fact a hot tub needs better insulation than your house because heat loss is all about tempo difference.. the bigger the difference the higher the heat loss so on a hot tub which is so much hotter than a house you need more than a house…

    Check out these guys:

  188. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    This negative review culture is sickening… Review sites are worse than useless because everyone abuses them…

    These guys carry a bizarre mix of brands which is always a bit worrying esp when they have these goofy parts brands like Hot Springs and Caldera… service nightmare but if they are a big player they might have it dialed in and they do say they carry Marquis which is the only one there I would look at. https://uniquepsb.com/

    that’s all I see…

    There is a Master Dealer in the south and there is an independent guy there doing service called

    http://www.spaserviceandsales.com/ so you might work out something there.

    phil@southeastspas.com
    http://www.southeastspas.com

  189. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:50 pm

    Hey LT

    I get the Island elite and tropical seas mixed up πŸ™‚ no idea why…

    I toured the Artesian factory (Island Elite) but just haven’t had time to write the review… too busy… all in all, it was good and they will remain on my recommended list, they do what they say…

  190. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    That’s a big number… You can go right to the top for that kind of money, and Bullfrog is pretty good but not the top… I hate that ABS plastic pedestal supported shells.

    These guys do Artesian:

    SUMMIT HOT TUBS
    P.O. BOX 906
    Dillon, CO. 80435 US

  191. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    I’m digging in and seeing if I can find anything out there for you.

  192. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    Hey

    I answered this but something must have happened, I might have clicked the next comment before it uploaded, word press is crap at keeping live, as soon as you move away from a window it cancels what you did πŸ™

    I haven’t found much real info on them, lots of fluff but no hard science I spent a good half hour trying to get tech data. They should reach out with shell construction, parts, insulation type, and fabrication points… I don’t endorse brands I endorse a way of building a hot tub. If you can prove you build a hot tub the way I like them built, and demonstrate a commitment to customers on the back end yer in.

    There are so many brands out there, they just do not come up much.

  193. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Hey Pete.

    Coast is a mixed bag, the jetting on that tub is middle of the road, there are only 5 of the expensive hi flow therapy jets and a few mid flow and loads of the inexpensive low flow jets.

    I do not like the pressure side filtration, its old technology being recycled. 90% of the industry abandoned this tech 20 years ago to move over to suction side filtration.

    check out the M{legends or the therappol from these guys.

    Crocker Sales Co. Inc. (nh)
    672 Daniel Webster Highway, Merrimack, NH, 03054
    Phone: 603-423-9777
    hk@crockersales.com
    http://www.crockersales.com

  194. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    Bahama is ok except the control system, stick with Balboa… Def look at the Artesian over these guys.

  195. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    The Marquis is the only one that would make my short list

  196. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    In that mix it would be the Bullfrog I guess, but I really hate that ABS pedistal supported shells… Caldera is part of hot springs and not on my recommended list but sometimes in my old age, I get the name confused with Marquis, none of those brands are my tier one πŸ™‚

    Dude, I met this guy last week, he is opening up all over Texas and he is knocking it out of the park down there.

    He sells master.

    Primo Hot Tub & Swim Spas
    22315 Gosling Road, Spring , TX , 77389
    Phone: 281-466-2618
    vince.primo@yahoo.com
    primohottubsandswimspas.com

  197. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    Good attention to detail πŸ™‚

    You are correct the master pur must have the quiet flow, frankly even if you could get Master pur without it I would not bother… It’s a great system, as good or better than anything out there but none of the onboard systems are as good as the aftermarket stuff like aqua finesse… If you really want easy and clean just use Aqua finesse or Mineralux. Check out this article for a more in-depth look.

    I would not order any upgrades unless it was maybe the bottom pan… if you have a wet area it can be a good upgrade the tub out of the box standard is simply awesome…

  198. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    John helps me out in areas I don’t have anyone in he has been doing this forever and knows lots of people in the industry.

    I’m coming to Georgia for a month in march out at the Kayak training centre where they had the races for the Olympics.

    I have 15 15-year-olds to chaperone! Nightmare… I need my head examined πŸ™‚

    in Atlanta you have these guys doing master:

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    4305 Ne Expressway , Doraville, GA, 30340
    Phone: 770-939-8000
    hottub@bellsouth.net

    And these guys doing Artesian: (looks like they just might be service guys only…

    PREMIUM SPA SERVICE & MAINTENANCE
    3605 SANDY PLAINS RD 240-108
    Marietta, GA. 30066 US

    Telephone: 770-598-0559

  199. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Marquis, I like for now but if they don’t get in touch soon to verify what they are doing they are going to be on hold here. I need to be able to get into their factory and verify what they are doing and I just can’t get them to come to the table… always makes me worry, esp when every other manufacturer is begging me to endorse their lines.

  200. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Fak tough one dude, love the master stuff but a bad dealer can be an issue. but that price is nuts… it should be more than the artesian…

    The other side is why not just replace the whole control system for $800?

  201. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    Of those three the tropical seas by a country mile… but get the full foam upgrade stay away from the radiant barrier systems…

  202. Reply
    admin January 29, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    I have been bugging them to give me visibility of their process and this line and no one there answers any messages… meanwhile, the other brands I like are calling and giving me visibility of their factories and process

    The Vector 21 stuff is a big unknown for me. and frankly, if these meatheads don’t start giving me some visibility into their back end I’m not going to be recommending them for much longer, I can’t stand behind a factory that cant give us a better view of what they are doing.

    The price is certainly up there.

    I would normally not be a fan of the Hot Springs stuff, man I just learned that you cant take the sides off these things! on top of all the issues I already have with this brand this new info just reenforces my position… that’s crazy that alone makes me run away add the goofy parts list on to that and I just can’t even take the brands seriously… too much spent on the branding and not enough on the hot tub… but all that being said, a great dealer that has had the line for a long time will be aware of all the goofy shit and likely be able to make it a good experience. I always say for a lot of customers a great dealer with a mid-grade product is better than a crappy dealer with an awesome product…

    I would look at the Artesian or the master, I know the master dealer was just in Florida for the big master sing-along last week so likely that’s the delay.

    .

  203. Reply
    admin January 28, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    You could do a lot worse.

    Its a good build, good parts, and the price is good.

    I love the big open spaces in that line, they just did those designs a few years ago and it really addressed the idea that big open spaces are great for a water environment.

  204. Reply
    admin January 27, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    Hey Dennis

    Order with no circ pump.

    I’ll see what I can do I have a guy that has a guy that might be able to help you πŸ™‚

    I’ll make some calls to the pool companies down there and see what I can find as well.

  205. Reply
    admin January 27, 2018 at 5:42 pm

    Hi John

    I wish I could dude but they are a great example of a company building a mid-grade spa spending scads on branding and marketing and selling as high end… Like the name should cost you 5k extra πŸ™‚

    They do a Great hand-rolled self-supporting shell and a good base but ignore the pitch about being able to throw it right on the ground without ground prep.

    The parts are all no-name parts I won’t buy a tub that not using a good readily available parts list like Balboa controls.

    The insulation is inexpensive and simply misleading, you want foam in this area… R-value… look at the housing industry, its all about thermal mass to retain heat,

    They don’t even clamp the plumbing lines. These guys are doing 1 of the four things I want to see before I will recommend a spa.

    Let me see what I can find out there, Some brands let me sell into markets they don’t have dealers in because I have a good reputation for customer care.

  206. Reply
    admin January 27, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    Hi Kim

    Both brands are good, the master edges them out on performance when you get up into the Twilight and Legend series but on the mid to mid-upper range they are very comparable spas.

    If Its about massage then definitely look at the Twilight spa, for massage therapy its simply in a class of its own in my opinion. See the video review of mine

    I looked at all the guys in your area and there are just not a lot of great options none of my 3 go to brands are in your area πŸ™

    I’m gonna pass this on to a guy who might be able to find you some options out there.

  207. Reply
    admin January 27, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    Hey Frank.

    It’s not you man, its a nightmare trying to sort out the Bullshit from the Bananas.

    Lots of the big brands with all the fancy marketing but there is a guy sells the garden Leisure from Artesian, I just a factory tour there, they are doing a good job, http://coolwaterspoolandspa.com/hot_tubs

    Also these guys do the whole line TUCKER BACKYARD POOLS & SPAS
    4780 COMMERCIAL DRIVE
    New Hartford, NY. 13413 US

    Telephone: (315) 507-4630
    Categories: Garden Spas, Island Spas, Platinum Elite, Service and Repair, South Seas Spas, TidalFit

  208. Reply
    admin January 27, 2018 at 4:08 pm

    Let me see who I can find out there to help you.

  209. Reply
    admin January 27, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Hey Mame

    I get so many people In the Denver area, I swear I should set up a service centre there… The people who know me would say I’m erratic and ADD as hell, My wife would say “He doesn’t no much but he knows too much about hot tubs” πŸ™‚

    For the Used ones, the order would be… Artesian, either Cal spa, but so much depends on general condition on a used tub, look at the motor where the shaft goes into the back of the pump head for big white deposits that could indicate a bad water chemistry history. check jets remove a couple and give them a squeeze if they break they are brittle… again indicators of trouble down the road. Look at the base, if the wood is rotting or weak it could be indicative of leaks or an installation in a wet area.

    If you go new see the Artesian guys here: Colorado Custom Spas
    5270 BROADWAY
    Denver, CO. 80216 US

    Telephone: 303-468-8827
    Categories: Garden Spas, Island Spas, Platinum Elite, Service and Repair, South Seas Spas, TidalFit

  210. Reply
    admin January 24, 2018 at 8:38 pm

    So Hot springs is one of those guys spending way to much on the branding and marketing and not enough on the build, the use of proprietary parts ensures you are locked into them for life cause you cant get the parts anywhere else, this is a great strategy for profit for them but a bad position for the end user to be in.

    Viking is not a brand I would consider, don’t like the plastic shells and the insulation and they don’t even clamp the plumbing. keep looking…

    I would go see these guys first, they carry Master, they are doing all the right things. they also have broad ranges from rotomolds a the entry level right through mid high and even into the outrageous level.

    Master Spas Of West Michigan
    2055 28th St Se, Grand Central Plaza, Grand Rapids, MI, 49508
    Phone: 616-475-7770
    mrspas01@aol.com

    These guys cary Marquis which is built right nd covers the mid to mid upper in the performance ranges

    Leizure world
    5213 Airline Rd | 5213 Airline Rd | Muskegon MI 49444

    Phone: 231-865-1208

  211. Reply
    admin January 24, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    Hi Matthew

    I’m a big fan of the master stuff in general, and the new Clarity line shell layouts are one of the roomiest spas out there.

  212. Reply
    admin January 24, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    Its a little high for a 4 year old spa, and sundance is a goofy parts list, I would try nd find somthing with balboa controls and make sure the cover is in good shape.

  213. Reply
    admin January 23, 2018 at 6:07 pm

    Hi Jenny!

    Good job. so few people come out of shopping with good info.

    I love the reverse molded neck jets there are a lot of brands that have these but they need to be the mid flow jets the small ones cant do enough for the deep muscle you need t move a ton of water, there are a couple spas out there that have the good mid flow jetting in the shoulder seat and a few even have diverters so you can really hammer the water to that chair. the reality is you need to move a pile of water through the shoulder jets to make any long term difference.

    The fold away steps are cool, but that means there is no insulation in that whole area, and once you open the spa you will never fold them away.

    The tub also has very little insulation… just an inch or two so the=at simply means heat loss, there are no magic bullets out there, every tub reuses motor heat no by the same method, it gets injected into the tub through the air intakes and o=zone system when the pump is running, and when the pump is not running then there is no heat being generated to fill that cavity and now you are loosing heat like mad because there is no insulation… you don’t need that massive air space to reclaim motor waste heat its just a cheap way to insulate a spa…

    I do like the hard top cover but its does not offset the bad, the reality is good cover will go 5 years and with a few tricks you can get out to 7 years, and they are a lot lighter.

    I went through every single retailer in the area and there are not a lot of great choices near you.

    But go 30 or 40 miles out and there are a few good choices.

    Frankly if your goal is therapy and esp shoulder massage you need ot check out the Twilight series spas they are really in a class of their own.

    Master Spa is carried by these guys:
    Pools Unlimited Llc
    534 Enterprise Drive, Jefferson Ctiy , MO, 65109
    Phone: 573-636-7665
    info@poolsunlimitedllc.com

    A little further out these guys carry marquis but they also carry Jacuzzi… weird combo the Marquis are great the Jacuzzi are not on my recommended list

    Columbia Pool & Spa
    1200 Business Loop 70 W.
    Columbia, MO 65202
    (573) 874-6972
    info@columbiapoolandspa.com

  214. Reply
    admin January 23, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    Hi Dara

    I’m not a fan of Jacuzzi, to much money spent on brand awareness marketing and spin… not enough left over to build a great spa and it shows… go to the discussion forums and forget all the advice just start looking for posts from people looking for help fixing their broken hot tubs… Jacuzzi (brands) are the second most problematic spa with over 20% of all requests from Jacuzzi owners asking for help. this is real information from boots on the ground owners and means a lot.

    You have awesome options in your area.

    I would be looking at the following:

    Artesian spas from these guys : http://www.oasispoolsplus.com/hot-tubs-spas-charlotte-nc/

    Marquisspas from these guys. http://www.mymodernbackyard.com/hot-tubs/

  215. Reply
    admin January 23, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    Hey Don

    Its a nightmare out there.

    Ya know I always say a great dealer with a mid grade brand like Hot Springs is better than a great brand with a crap dealer. That being said I don’t usually put much merit in rating and review sites, although the BBB is one of the more reliable… The problem is they can be heavily influenced with no basis in reality. I think from the reviews i read this dealer does a lot of expo shows in remote areas, these things typically generate a lot of grief because they are selling into a remote market, but in the local market they may be fine.

    product wise, Hot Springs is a goofy one, lots of goofy proprietary parts and they are the number one brand on all the discussion forums for people with broken spas looking for help… a whopping 34% of all the requests from owners looking for help fixing broken hot tubs are the Hot springs group of companies… These things are very well branded and marketed but they use a cheap proprietary parts list and the only people who can get the parts or do most service are their dealers… so you really need a great dealer, and the tub will not be as reliable as a brand using Balboa control and heating systems.

    The bullfrog is the opposite, good parts, and they glue and clamp the plumbing but that ABS plastic shell is a deal breaker, and they are under powered and mid performance.

    There is no two ways about it the master is the best spa of the three esp if you want high end therapy massage and are looking at Twilight, the jetting on the spa and the pressure in the main captains seat and the floor jets will absolutely blow those other brands away. The HL line will compare nicely to the other two.

    Last thing, you have the fall back of me, with either the bullfrog or the Master we can help you, because they are industry standard parts and systems, I’m great with communication and can get you info and help if your dealer shits the bed, just drop me a line and I’ll wack them with my big stick and they will step into line.

  216. Reply
    admin January 22, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    Hi Casey

    Not on my top list…

    I tried to look around your area but your IP comes as New Jersey or New Mexico πŸ™‚

    email me your zip Ill see what I can find.

  217. Reply
    admin January 22, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Nordic for sure, they build a good spa with a great parts list, The insulation is not as good as the top but its good.

  218. Reply
    admin January 22, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    You might have to travel a bit.

    These guys Do Artesian, just did a factory visit with them and they build a good tub. https://www.familyleisure.com/Spas-Hot-Tubs Its the only one in the area I would look at.

  219. Reply
    admin January 22, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    Hi Kristin

    The Beachcomber for sure out of those two, I am not a fan of Arctic at all.

    if you go beachcomber go with the non Hybrid model, I know they will tell you the other one is better but it is not…

    These guys carry Marquis spas, one of my top brands. http://southsidepoolsandspas.com/southside_website_049.htm but stay away from their other brands.

  220. Reply
    admin January 22, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Nordic for sure, they build a good spa.

  221. Reply
    admin January 22, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    Hey JJ

    I need to edit that review, its salty as hell πŸ™‚

    There is a big hole in the story omitted on purpose… We went away from full foam because of access to plumbing and issues with finding a leak put that was with older poly based foams, and it was a trade-off we sacrificed R-value for accessibility and reduced the cost to build.

    But using newer water-based foams let us full foam again and not have access or leak detection issues. it cost a lot more but let us get higher R values. You really need to research radiant barriers and their abilities to contain heat in a system, there is tons of information out there showing this is simply not a good insulator. There is a good reason why the only people out there endorsing this as an insulation system to contain heat are the people trying to sell it to you πŸ™‚

    There is not a good case for these inexpensive Radiant barriers being effective in this application.

    All we have to do is look at the building industry back in the 80’s when these radiant barrier systems came on the market, almost every single northern US state ended up issuing warnings against it, you notice you never ever see this shit in the building industry where they have to meet code regulations?

    These systems are good at reflecting heat away from something but they are crap at containing heat in a system because they have no thermal mass.

    We know that the best we can hope for in an ideal final assembly is about R-4.7 per layer… But in a hot tub, we cant get anywhere near ideal assembly parameters and the reality is we are likely looking at about R-2 per layer. the actual Mylar film is only R-1 but again the final assembly which means the way it is installed can in ideal parameters (in an attic or on the bottom of duct work) increase that to a maximum of around R-4.7 which is still way way less than the R-20 we can get with expanded foams.

    What we need for Ideal final assembly of a radiant barrier system for Max R-value :

    1. Horizontal installation: It simply means that we need the reflective surface lying horizontally. The further off horizontal we get the more we start creating convection currents as the heat rises along the surface of the radiant barrier, this dramatically reduces the final assembly R-value… In a hot tub, you have to install them vertically which is the worst case.
    2. They need to maintain a specific gap between the reflective surface and the thing you are trying to insulate. The recommended gap is 1/2β€³ to 2β€³ On a hot tub, the distance between the reflective wrap and the hot tub ranges from 0 to 6β€³ so again nowhere near the requirements for good R-value for the final assembly.
    3. If the reflective barrier touches the heat source (hot tub shell or pipes) it completely stops being an insulator at all and becomes a conductor!!! When they wrap the shell like they do at Hydropool the radiant barrier touches the pipes all around the spa creating tons of places that are not only not insulting at all but actually actively conducting the heat through the radiant barrier!!!
    4. The reflective barrier needs to be sealed along all its edges. so again on a hot tub they would need to seal the radiant barrier to the shell at the top and the floor at the bottom sealing ai9r tight around the shell… this is not even possible and on that spa it’s not sealed at all which means the convection currents just cause the heat to rise and escape around the top of the radiant barrier.

    Nobody uses this in the building industry anymore because it is simply not effective at containing heat in a system and the fact that some Hot Tub companies are now flogging this 3o-year-old tech as the next new hi-tech thing is in no way changing those facts.

    Its cheap.

  222. Reply
    admin January 18, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    dude thats a full foam spa, if you have a good cover (the most important factor) then you are fine, It’s not a low-end spa it better than most from a build standpoint, it does have a circ pump, but unless you are having issues with dry or OH errors then why change it, frankly most of the stuff out there would be a lateral or downward move. Unless you are going to the high high-end yer throwing good money away…

  223. Reply
    admin January 18, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    Hey Janell

    Go a little further afield and you have three guys each carrying one of my top rated spas. I would not have any of those ones on my short list, all of those guys have gotten away from the really good reliable parts like Balboa and gone to no-name parts so you can only get your parts from them… these systems are nowhere near as good as the TOP OEM stuff and you have very limited options for replacements. In my opinion, it’s a big big issue I would never sell or buy a brand that is not using good readily available parts list.

    1. These Guys carry marquis spas, one of our top rated brands.

    Inland Pool & Spa Centre
    80996 N Hwy 395 Hermiston, OR 97838 US
    Phone: 541-567-3222 Website: http://www.inlandpoolspacentre.com

    2. These Guys Carry Tidal Fit Swim spas so they might be able to get you Artesian again one of our go-to brands, they also sell Hot Springs and jacuzzi which I would stay away from…

    Walla Walla Sew, Vac, and Spas
    102 E Main Street
    Walla Walla, WA. 99362 US

    Telephone: 509-529-7755

    3. Cal Spas, these guys are new to my top list after doing a comprehensive factory tour and giving the whole thing a good once over we are confident that they have increased the QC and are putting out a pretty good spa.

    CALLAGHANS SPAS
    16 N. 3RD ST
    YAKIMA WA 98901 USA
    PHONE: (509) 225-7727
    EMAIL: CALLAGHANS@YAHOO.COM

  224. Reply
    admin January 18, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    Wow tough crowd out there, I can’t find any of the 4 brands I really like, The closest is Nordic but they really only to the entry to mid-level.

    You do on the other hand have t a crazy number of service companies out there so you could look at buying out of the market, its that or hot springs, caldera and I would go out of the market before I went that route.

    I’m going to hit up a guy I know that might be able to find a solution out there for you.

  225. Reply
    admin January 18, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Hey Jack

    Sorry for the late response, I swear this is becoming a job!

    My goto guys out there: These Guys carry Master it is one of my tier 1 brands.

    East Coast Spas Inc.
    1424 Easton Road, Suite 300, Horsham, PA, 19040
    Phone: 732-823-8606
    ben@eastcoastspas.com
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com

    These guys carry Cal Spas, which has always been a good build on paper but have suffered a lot of quality control issues, I just toured their factory in LA last week and they have put a lot of time and money into this end of the business so they are getting close to our tier one Brands. Make sure you get the full foam upgrade, don’t buy into that bullshit about radiant barriers this stuff was virtually banned as a primary insulator in the housing industry in the 80’s.

    C & C POOL & SPA LLC
    3001 NOTTINGHAM WAY
    HAMILTON NJ 08619 USA
    PHONE: (609) 245-8714
    EMAIL: CANDCPOOLANDSPA@YAHOO.COM
    82/ CALSPA SERVICE CENTER
    STREET VIEW | GOOGLE VIEW

  226. Reply
    admin January 17, 2018 at 6:10 pm

    Hi Julie

    The hot springs salt system is not chemical free, it uses sodium chloride or sodium bromide to make chlorine or bromine… that’s all… and the levels will be around 1-3 ppm which is pretty high.

    I’m, not a fan of trying to get away with no chemical and really feel that we are splitting hairs because you can get to .5 ppm which is drinking water levels On the HL with either an enzyme or mineral salt esp with the Eco pure filter which uses copper and zinc Ion and the ozone system..

    Go see the guys at the Rocklin store, they are good guys and the tubs solid well built and has a much better quality parts list.

  227. Reply
    admin January 17, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    So we got in touch and went down to Vegas and had a look at the Artesian factory and had a look at how they build the spas, and I have to say they are doing all the right things down there.

  228. Reply
    admin January 16, 2018 at 8:23 pm

    Depends on the year the pre 2018’s had the mount that everyone uses, the 2018+ have the NRS motor mount they basically suspend the pump on a rubber mat, dead quiet.

    I hate circ pumps they are the cause of so much grief on all brands… low flow error??? OH error??? Pump is dry error??? The dealer tells you its your filter maintenance… BS it the low flow hush or circ pump… It is BAD TECH.

    My other argument about circ pumps in general… They are restricted to X number of gallons filtered per day.. the 2 speed systems can filter a weeks worth of water in 24 hrs. so if yo have a heavy bather load like these guys or a big party you can up the filtration and clean the spa in 1/3rd the time! and you are likely not even to have to worry about ever go off in the first place because your filtering more water per day.

  229. Reply
    admin January 16, 2018 at 7:14 pm

    you are looking for a trichlor tablet and get a dispenser and close it almost all the way down, the idea is I try and burn about 2 to 3 tablets a week depending on the usage.

    Happy hottubbing and call the office or email me if you have issues

  230. Reply
    admin January 15, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    The Expos can be good or a nightmare depending on the brand and local back up.

    In your area you have 2 local companies that specialise in service of all brands and the Master is a top brand from a build quality standpoint so if the price was right its not a bad way to go, the reality is a great dealer is all about communication and knowledge, the actual boots on the ground service is the easy part, its all the little bits helping you with information that dealers near or far usually suck at πŸ™‚

    These guys carry Cal Spas, just make sure you order the full foam upgrade.

    WATER WORKS SPA & POOL
    11010 HWY 231-431
    MERIDIANVILLE AL 35759 USA
    PHONE: (256) 746-6387
    EMAIL: DH1949DH@GMAIL.COM

    Ill have a poke around and see if I find anything else.

  231. Reply
    admin January 15, 2018 at 7:48 pm

    Hi Steve.

    If you have any questions ping me

    Enjoy your hot tub!

  232. Reply
    admin January 15, 2018 at 7:33 pm

    Hi Brittany

    The factory tour with Artesian went well, they are a small factory but are doing all the right things and using the same build quality on all the lines. So I am comfortable with keeping them on the A-list.

    Personally I do not like the circ pumps, they are finicky and offer no real advantages over the high flow systems and a lot of disadvantages. read this

  233. Reply
    admin January 15, 2018 at 7:28 pm

    I don’t really use this system, but right away the bather load is a big indicator.

    – I would shock every 4-6 bodies, so that’s a heaping tablespoon of a good non-chlorine shock.
    – Increase your filtration rate up to 2 sets of 4 or 5 hours each
    – I would be adding chlorine every 2-3 days. are you sure the spa plus is chlorine? it might be PH up?

  234. Reply
    admin January 15, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    run a spa clean puck through it then but the aqua finesse kit, and a good floating dispenser, Ph down, alka plus, cal boost test strips and a good non chlorine shock.

    Tips for optimum Aquafinesse use
    Fill tub and heat it to desired temp
    Test the water.
    Balance the hardness to 150 (about Β½ bottle Cal Boost)
    Balance the water alkalinity level to 150.
    When alkalinity is adjusted, test and adjust the ph. to 7.
    Add Aquafinesse at recommended dosage (see bottle side).
    Fill dispenser with chlorine pucks and put in spa.
    Weekly:
    Balance Alkalinity and PH as above
    Add Aquafinesse
    Rinse filters – order this Handy cleaning wand for $32.95
    Shock spa one cap after every 4-5 bodies. Also shock with 6 caps if heavy bather load or if water is cloudy.
    Be sure to replace the chlorine puck when it dissolves. You should be burning 3 tablets a week.
    Periodic:
    Deep clean filters every 2-3 months with Aquafinesse filter cleaner tablets.
    Things to remember:
    The spas pumps should be running when balancing the water.
    Leave at least 5 minutes between all water tests to ensure the added elements have been fully mixed into the spa.

  235. Reply
    admin January 15, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    Hey John

    I am not a fan of the brand at all. Old style pressure filtration, old style floor suction rebranded as “Self-cleaning” and worst of all radiant barrier insulation…

    There is not a good case for these inexpensive Radiant barriers being effective in this application.

    All we have to do is look at the building industry back in the 80’s when these radiant barrier systems came on the market, almost every single northern US state ended up issuing warnings against it, you notice you never ever see this shit in the building industry where they have to meet code regulations?

    These systems are good at reflecting heat away from something but they are crap at containing heat in a system because they have no thermal mass.

    We know that the best we can hope for in an ideal final assembly is about R-4.7 per layer… But in a hot tub, we cant get anywhere near ideal assembly parameters and the reality is we are likely looking at about R-2 per layer. the actual Mylar film is only R-1 but again the final assembly which means the way it is installed can in ideal parameters (in an attic or on the bottom of duct work) can increase that to a maximum of around R-4.7 which is still way way less than the R-20 we can get with expanded foams.

    What we need for Ideal final assembly of a radiant barrier system for Max R-value :

    1. Horizontal installation: It simply means that we need the reflective surface lying horizontally. The further off horizontal we get the more we start creating convection currents as the heat rises along the surface of the radiant barrier, this dramatically reduces the final assembly R-value… In a hot tub, you have to install them vertically which is the worst case.
    2. They need to maintain a specific gap between the reflective surface and the thing you are trying to insulate. The recommended gap is 1/2″ to 2″ On a hot tub, the distance between the reflective wrap and the hot tub ranges from 0 to 6″ so again nowhere near the requirements for good R-value for the final assembly.
    3. If the reflective barrier touches the heat source (hot tub shell or pipes) it completely stops being an insulator at all and becomes a conductor!!! When they wrap the shell like they do at Hydropool the radiant barrier touches the pipes all around the spa creating tons of places that are not only not insulting at all but actually actively conducting the heat through the radiant barrier!!!
    4. The reflective barrier needs to be sealed along all its edges. so again on a hot tub they would need to seal the radiant barrier to the shell at the top and the floor at the bottom sealing ai9r tight around the shell… this is not even possible and on that spa its not sealed at all which means the convection currents just cause the heat to rise and escape around the top of the radiant barrier.

    Nobody uses this in the building industry anymore because it is simply not effective at containing heat in a system and the fact that some Hot Tub companies are now flogging this 3o-year-old tech as the next new hi-tech thing is in no way changing those facts.

    Its cheap.

    Read this for links to the real hard data

  236. Reply
    admin January 12, 2018 at 12:11 pm

    Hi James

    Not a fan, these spas are def not in my go to group. About the only thing i like is the heating and control system.

  237. Reply
    admin January 10, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    Jacuzzi, is middle of the road, the problem with these big corporate guys is they know the most profitable business model is to build a mid grade spa, use lots of goofy proprietary parts so the can own your ass for ever and send lots on spin, branding and marketing… I would not buy a spa that did not use Balboa control and heating system, hand rolled fiberglass shells and glued and clamped plumbing this si the bare minimum for a great hot tub.

  238. Reply
    admin January 10, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    I’m not sure, never come across them but I will have a look at the website and see what they say.

    You email address does not work, don’t worry i don’t spam πŸ™‚ ping me on chris@hottubuniverse.ca and ill give you some more options.

    right off the bat I don’t like some of the things they say on the site.

    the first is telling people that you can drop it right on the ground… there is simply no way unprepared ground will settle evenly.

    Rewind.. I just called and spoke to them because I just didn’t want to give you nothing, a swimmer is a big purchase.

    The shell is hand rolled vinyl ester resin core and self supporting, this is great, and they glue and clamp the plumbing which is great but its all downhill from there.

    You really really want a Balboa control system, there is simply nothing else out there that is better they are using a chepo system, and the insulation is crap. reflective foils are not effective at containing heat in a system, see this article

    Dude this is what it appears to be, cheap and cheerfull with a good dose of bullshit… no chemicals??? really??? lies!!! the enzymes are great and will get you to .5ppm of chlorine which is drinking water levels and safe but they are full of shit when they say 0 chemicals and that makes me distrust everything else.

    Ok i just searched your area to see what other brands are good out there and realized yer in Henderson! I’m in LA right now typing this and am coming to Vegas Friday πŸ™‚

    Dude Artesian is right there, there is a dealer called Creative spas they Sell Artesian, this is one of my goto companies and by far the best bet in your area.

    I tried emailing you some stuff but your email is not right.

  239. Reply
    admin January 9, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    Man that’s awesome, he will love it and help those old battle wounds.

    I like Artesian but they are being super dodgy with information on the tropic seas line.

    I have sent them all kinds of requests for confirmation on if they are built at the site in Vegas and questions about the build procedure, i asked to see the factory and where everyone else is yelling for me to come see them these meat heads who we already endorse and who we sold a couple hundred spas for wont answer their emails…

    I’m dropping in on the factory Friday and shooting a video… it will either be an awkward video of them asking me to leave the premises and the cops dragging me off for trespassing and these guys going off my recommended list or they are going to have a conversation with me and verify what they are doing so i can refer them with confidence.

  240. Reply
    admin January 8, 2018 at 2:30 pm

    So Coyote is Arctic lower end and I’m not even a fan of their upper end πŸ™‚

    The Arctic stuff is a lot of smoke and spin and a lot of cheap Chinese parts, no clamps on he plumbing and hardly any R-value but the good thing is they have a magic fairy that lives under there and makes free heat to offset all the thermal loss through the R8 insulation πŸ™‚

    I checked every single dealer in the area the only brand around you that i would put on my floor would be these guys.

    These guys carry Artesian, well-made spas with good parts. http://soakers.biz/

    You also have 2 good independent service centres out there that fix all brands this opens up so more options for buying out of the market which can be really good for pricing. you can always ping or call us for advice and help πŸ™‚

    Ill have a look around and get in contact if I find anything.

  241. Reply
    admin January 8, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    Hi Chad

    These guys do Master, they are one of my top recommended brands, Hand-rolled shells, full foam, clamped plumbing and good parts go with the high flow filter system. http://www.spasandmorestl.com/

    If you are looking for entry level try Nordic spas from these guys http://www.familyhomeandpatio.com/products/spas.html

    Everything else is Hot Springs and Jacuuzi brands like caldera, Sundance and they all suffer from too much money spent on marketing and not enough on the tub… goofy proprietary parts that are no where near as reliable as the Balboa stuff and you can only get from one source.

    I cant find any Marquis or Artesian dealers near you they would be two other brands that would be good.

    I’ll dig a little deeper and get someone in touch with you.

  242. Reply
    admin January 8, 2018 at 1:11 pm

    Likely that is Platinum Elite bu Artesian if it is it is comparable to the Marquis line.

  243. Reply
    admin January 7, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    Vita is middle of the road, in my opinion, steel frame I do not like, its a gimmick and noisy.

    The biggest problem I have is the reflective insulation system, it’s cheap and not very effective.

    There are a lot of different reflective surfaces but the truth is it does not change the fact that they are reflective insulation only dealing with radiant heat and the backing has minimal thermal mass.

    The problem with radiant insulation is that it is just not that good at containing heat in a system, especially when installed in a hot tub. Radiant barriers work well at bouncing heat away so in Florida they are good in attics to keep the heat out.

    There are enough studies out there to make a good solid scientific case against these radiant systems used to contain heat in a system and the reality is some hot tub company with some marketing spin is in no way changing that scientific data.

    copper, whiteboard, Bi pet foils they are all the same theory.. reflecting infrared spectrum back… Changing the reflective material has almost no effect because it’s not the quality of the reflector that is in question it is the science of reflective insulation systems being applicable to this application that is in question.

    http://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

  244. Reply
    admin January 7, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    Hey Craig

    The Marquis for sure man.

    These are in entirely different leagues, the HS and jacuzzi spend a ton on branding and marketing and are arguably the best guys out there for this end of the business but the build standard and parts list of the Marquis is miles above all three of those brands.

    I’ll see if I can find anything else local and ping you.

  245. Reply
    admin January 7, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    Larry don’t drink the Kool-aid! there is no way on earth that 1 or 2 inches of batt insulation are going to give you anywhere near R-21. Whoever told you this either has no idea what they are talking about or are simply saying anything at all to close the deal.

    The best Batt insulations out there for the building trade is Running around R-20 but that’s if you are using 6″ inches of the stuff. they are using between 1.5″ and 2″ max so the really real world says that’s about R-5 to R-7 Max.

    There is very little around you but I will have a closer look and get back to you.

  246. Reply
    admin January 6, 2018 at 10:04 am

    Caldera is part of the Hot Springs group. a lot of goofy proprietary parts and a lot of people on the forums asking for help to fix them. I always want a balboa heating and control system…

    You have a few good choices out there.

    These guys have Master one of my go to brands. http://www.spasandmorestl.com/

    These guys do Artesian, again one of my goto guys http://www.prestigepoolsandspas.com/hot-tubs/

    these would be the two on my short list.

    happy hot tubbing

  247. Reply
    admin January 5, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    Covers are crazy.

    Problem is most of the options that last are so freeking heavy.

    I would buy a 5″ aluminum core standard tapered cover, make sure it has a centre baffle (long 3″ wide 5″ deep and the length of the covert that gets pinched between the fold when you close the cover.

    Then when you get is home unzip it and take out the cores, go over the edges all around the core with tuck tape then the vinyl will not wear through the vapour barrier… also go over all seams in the vapour barrier… the thing will last 5-7 years.

  248. Reply
    admin January 5, 2018 at 3:17 pm

    get a marquis from these guys.

    8775 SW Cascade Ave # A6, Beaverton, OR 97008, USA

    oregonmarquishottubs.com

  249. Reply
    admin January 3, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    Hi Rock

    The Maxx Blue insulation is just cheap. on all other fronts, the two tubs are similar but the Artesian spends a lot more on the insulation and has 5x the rvalue.

  250. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    Hi Patty.

    The 6k budget is a tight one you need to be super careful because most of the stuff at that price point will be cheap junk.

    I would go to a roto moulded spa, super durable and you save a ton by going to the roto moulds. look for a getaway Hot Tub Bar harbour, you might be able to order one through these guys.

    Hottub Emporium
    6620 Lonetree Blvd. Suite 500, Rocklin, CA, 95765
    Phone: 916-705-7727
    todd@sachottub.com
    http://www.sachottub.com

  251. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    Hands down the Artesian The max insulation system makes it a no-go for me personally. The artesian has 3 or 4 times the R-value and they spent a lot more money getting that insulation value.

  252. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    These guys Carry Artesian, they are a good spa. http://aurorapoolsandspas.com/

  253. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    Hi Viki

    That sucks about your back, I hope it doesn’t cause you too much aggravation.

    Your shopping list is too long for that price point, anything at that price that is the size you want with good therapy jets is going to be closer to 10k.

    I would say try and find a used spa if you find any post up the link and I’ll have a boo for you.

  254. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    Balboa controls and the full foam insulation is good, find out if they clamp the plumbing lines and how the shell is made.

  255. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    Viking has been around forever but never really became a serious player, the problem is unless you get big enough you can’t afford to build everything to the top spec. While the parts are good, I don’t like the plastic shell, I really want a good Hand rolled fibreglass shell. The pipes are not clamped, and the insulation is not my recommended system. all in all its what most spas are, some good, some bad and some ugly…

  256. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Hi Tiere

    Happy New Year! and sorry for the tardy response!

    Either tub will be a good buy. The HL is a very contoured bucket seat seating good for average sized people but a tight fit for plus sizes. Depending on the Marquis you are looking at the performance on the HL will be like the Marquis.

  257. Reply
    admin January 2, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Happy new year!

    Sorry for the delay… You’ll have to excuse me, I’m not at my best. I’ve been gone for a week, I’ve been drunk since I left. These so-called vacations will soon be my death. I’m so sick from the drink, I need home for a rest. ”

    Jacuzzi Is not on my goto list, goofy proprietary parts are deal breakers for me, I want better options for sourcing parts, I want Balboa electronic control and heating systems because it is simply the best.

    Coast I don’t know a ton about but right off I noticed the old pressure side filtration rebranded as Cyclone tech πŸ™‚ It’s not a big deal but I really prefer a suction side filter system.

    You have a beachcomber dealer, better build upper-mid performance. Go with a non hybrid model isf you can, https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Beachcomber+Hot+Tubs/@49.2130186,-122.7597925,10.5z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!1shot+tub!3m4!1s0x0:0xe02000243d8061c1!8m2!3d49.1369681!4d-122.8559017

  258. Reply
    admin December 29, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    Hey man!

    if its lower back then the foot jets in a twilight spa πŸ™‚ sit in the footwell and crank the pump over to the floor jets and away you go!

  259. Reply
    admin December 29, 2017 at 2:33 pm

    Got To say the Beachcomber but get a non Hybrid…

  260. Reply
    admin December 28, 2017 at 2:33 pm

    Only local one there would be the Marquis dealer that I can find.

  261. Reply
    admin December 28, 2017 at 2:24 pm

    Only local one there would be the marquis

  262. Reply
    admin December 27, 2017 at 10:07 pm

    A 40 w old school light bulb in a trouble light cage

    Hang it under the skirt where the motors are being sure it is safe and not touching anything.

  263. Reply
    admin December 27, 2017 at 2:48 pm

    Dude I know the guys down there, I went in and saw them when I went to burning man a few years back and ran into them in Vagas at the show.

    Go see them the cooperage stuff is ok, but the insulation is crap, the Boys in Rocklyn run a great shop and have good solid backup.

  264. Reply
    admin December 27, 2017 at 2:42 pm

    Hi Colby

    I can’t really comment on the performance I have never sat in them but they both look fairly similar I really want to see one of these Vector tubs up close, one issue right off is all the goofy parts, mean you are stuck with them for life for these goofy fittings which are no doubt the reason they did it.

    I am just in the process of trying to get Marquis to sit down and allow us more visibility of their manufacturing process to verify what they are doing but they are crap at returning correspondence πŸ™‚

    Always makes me wonder if they are trying to hide something, I mean wholly hell I have likely sold them around 500 spas you think they would at least return my calls! and I wasn’t even asking them for money, just to let me see their factory to verify they are building what they say they are! next step will be to bypass them and go right to the dealers or the end users…

    Master flew us out to tour the whole operation, doors open, allowed to talk to staff everything, 100% clarity so when we say something about that brand we can say it standing on firm ground. Cal spa is flying us out to California to tour their operation hoping to prove that they are building the right stuff the right way and we are going to Vegas to drop into Artesian in January and these meatheads who are already on our good side cant even answer their emails… Going to have to take them off the recommended list if they do not give us some clarity into their build process and some confirmation of what they claim to do…

  265. Reply
    admin December 27, 2017 at 1:07 pm

    Hi Steve

    Some good insights and I think the reality is the truth is somewhere in between your dire doom and gloom and their gimmicky spin and marketing πŸ™‚

    – In some areas where they have a good independent service guy it can be very reliable, the truth is great dealers are about communication, most of what a customer needs after the sale is reliable information in a timely fashion. The truth is the actual on the ground service for 99% of calls is easy.

    – These can also be great places to buy for people who do not need a lot of back up and support almost any handyman in the trades can do most service their selves and almost every major city now has several independent service guys and the level of service from these independents is often better than retailers… its all they do is fix spas so it is their priority… Frankly, a lot of retailers have crap levels of service… buying local is rarely a guarantee of good support.

    – Yes, there is def a lot of misinformation and half-truths. surrounding who they are and what they are selling, Its the one thing I do not like about these events, there is very little accountability and customers really need to be diligent about getting everything in writing.

    – The reality is the pricing is a better than retail and about the same as a good warehouse direct location, but its a lot less than a lot of the heavily branded mid grade lines being peddled as high-end products.

    – Its great that you have a good family location and it sounds like you really know the industry and that you take great care of your customers, I also know it sucks when these guys come into your local market where your family lives and where you built your business. But you also need to understand that you are an anomaly. There are way more shitty dealers out there than good ones like you, and the reality is buying from a great dealer is awesome, but in a lot of cases buying from the expo or buying from a crappy dealer is about the same.

  266. Reply
    admin December 23, 2017 at 3:33 pm

    Bullfrog http://www.brownspools.com/spas-and-hot-tubs

    Bullfrog: http://www.lakeguntersvillepool.com/

    Coast Spas: http://www.atlantahottubcenter.com/luxuryhottub/

    You don’t have any of my number ones but these guys are good.

  267. Reply
    admin December 21, 2017 at 7:00 pm

    God That’s a tough one.

    Both are very good at marketing and frankly build mid grade spas.

    The Hotsprings are number one on the discussion forums for people asking for help, always raises a red flag. The control they use is goofy, it’s from Invensys and has a history of blowing heater relay boards and they can never seem to keep a spa side controller working, its why they put the main controller is the side of the tub. I got to admit there is not a lot to get excited about, inexpensive plastic shells, goofy proprietary parts and a lot of people looking for help fixing them.

    The there is hydro pool… tons of old tech being rebranded as innovation, and a reflective foil insulation system? Man, that stuff is cheap and if you read up on it it is not effective at containing heat in systems it has no thermal mass, its good at reflecting heat waves away from something but it’s not effective at trying to contain heat. the Canadian mortgage housing authority and most of the northern US states issued warnings about these reflective radiant barriers when it was being pushed in the housing market in the 80’s, no one uses it for building anymore and now it’s making its resurgence in hot tubs… its crap stay away.

    Your Ip comes back as London, old Toronto and area… go see premium in Kitchener or find an Artesian dealer or a Marquis dealer there are loads of better spas for that kind of money.

  268. Reply
    admin December 21, 2017 at 12:10 pm

    Hi Don

    You live right beside my Mom πŸ™‚

    In Florida, if you primarily want hot water and some basic jetting these can be a great item.

    I love the new Getaway hot Tub line, built right by a good manufacturer using good parts and shell, and clamped plumbing. Also, the Nordic spa is a good tub normally I would push the full foam insulation on the getaway but again in Fla, it’s not a big deal..

    These guys sell Artesian a good brand:

    http://www.tricountypoolspa.com/

  269. Reply
    admin December 19, 2017 at 1:13 pm

    Lots of brands and sellers down there but there are three top brands.

    These guys sell master, one of my top brands:

    David’s Home Entertainment & Recreation
    2566 Asheville Road, Waynesville, NC, 28786
    Phone: 828-452-5534
    david@davidshomeentertainment.com

    These guys sell Artesian again one of my goto brands:

    The Great backyard adventure:

    305b Airport Rd.
    Arden, NC 28704
    phone: (828) 676-2764

    https://www.greatbackyard.com/locations-hours/

    These guys sell LSX

    Swim Spa International
    6228 Airpark Dr. Suite B
    Chattanooga, TN 37421
    Phone: 423-355-8930
    Fax: 423-744-8703
    swimspainternational@gmail.com

  270. Reply
    admin December 18, 2017 at 12:39 pm

    Yeah, I use about .5ppm chlorine in my tub with aquafinesse… A lot of my customers like Spa Marvel too.

    For sure this could help, it depends on your sensitivity.

  271. Reply
    admin December 18, 2017 at 12:37 pm

    Funny enough I have one I am testing.

    To soon to say for sure, It might work and is just being suppressed because it would decimate the chemical sales market πŸ™‚

  272. Reply
    admin December 18, 2017 at 12:24 pm

    Hi Lori

    D1 was bought by the group that owns Jacuzzi, of the two brands the Marquis for sure would be a better-built spa. http://www.premierehottubs.com/Premiere-Hot-Tubs—Austin-v2-207.html

    There is also an Artesian dealer here: http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com/AustinHotTubsandSpas.php

    Those would be the only two on my short list in that area.

  273. Reply
    admin December 17, 2017 at 5:59 pm

    Hi James

    Of that group, I would absolutely go with the Marquis, good spa, well built. the only other one on that list that I would consider is more the entry level spa from Nordic.

  274. Reply
    admin December 17, 2017 at 5:48 pm

    Hi Wendy

    Other than the shell which is a cheaper pedestal supported version, I really prefer a good hand rolled self-supporting fibreglass shell. the parts, and insulation and fabrication are good.

    Only the shell construction keeps it from being on my top tier.

    in Breckenridge, you don’t really have any of my number one brands

  275. Reply
    admin December 17, 2017 at 5:34 pm

    That’s great.

    Don’t forget to give me some social media love!

    Tips for optimum Aquafinesse use
    Fill tub and heat it to desired temp
    Test the water.
    Balance the hardness to 150 (about Β½ bottle Cal Boost)
    Balance the water alkalinity level to 150.
    When alkalinity is adjusted, test and adjust the ph. to 7.
    Add Aquafinesse at recommended dosage (see bottle side).
    Fill dispenser with chlorine pucks and put in spa.
    Weekly:
    Balance Alkalinity and PH as above
    Add Aquafinesse
    Rinse filters – order this Handy cleaning wand for $32.95
    Shock spa one cap after every 4-5 bodies. Also shock with 6 caps if heavy bather load or if water is cloudy.
    Be sure to replace the chlorine puck when it dissolves. You should be burning 3 tablets a week.
    Periodic:
    Deep clean filters every 2-3 months with Aquafinesse filter cleaner tablets.

    Things to remember:
    The spas pumps should be running when balancing the water.
    Leave at least 5 minutes between all water tests to ensure the added elements have been fully mixed into the spa.

  276. Reply
    admin December 16, 2017 at 5:14 pm

    man I have not seen one recently but last time i did I shot a video and it went viral for all the wrong reasons πŸ™‚ https://youtu.be/vVpuTxjXq2o

  277. Reply
    admin December 16, 2017 at 5:12 pm

    You have the regular bunch of overpriced mid grade stuff but luckily you have a few good brands too.

    http://www.aquaelite.com/ They sell Nordic which is a good small spa that is well made and uses good parts, the insulation could be a bit better but its a lot better than most. They also carry Bullfrog but the shells are not great and they are way overpriced and a bit gimmicky.

    http://www.countryhomespower.com/products/Spas-and-Hot-Tubs/ these guys carry marquis, it is one of my recommended brands

    http://coloradocustomspas.com/ carry Artesian again one of my go-to brands.

  278. Reply
    admin December 16, 2017 at 2:17 pm

    Hi Chris

    lots of guys selling spas but only 2 I would consider, I went through all 20 odd guys in your area to see these guys.

    http://coloradocustomspas.com/ sell artesian which is a good line.

    http://www.heatwaveboulder.com/ sell Marquis spas and beachcomber.

  279. Reply
    admin December 14, 2017 at 11:25 am

    Hi Allison

    I would look at either the Marquis Napa or the Nordic Impulse.

    Of the two the Marquis is a better spa they insulation is better and the shell is a hand-rolled fibreglass acrylic whereas the Nordic is a roto mould shell which is durable but not nearly as expensive to make and don’t look as high end. also, the Nordic insulation while not horrible is a lot less expensive and lower R-value than the Marquis.

    I would expect to pay $1000 more for the marquis so it comes down to what you want to spend, both are well built and reliable but again the marquis will be more efficient.

    Ther jacuzzi I would not have on my short list.

  280. Reply
    admin December 13, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    Hi Eric

    It is all about performance.

    The HL spas are like most top-end spas, a nice mix of the small jets, the mid-sized jets and the big therapy massage jets. the performance is great and for normal people with normal aches and pains it going to be an awesome spa, It has 2 pumps and one pump controls one side of the spa and the second pump controls the other side.

    Twilight is a bit of an extreme, there are almost no other spas out there that have such a huge number of the big expensive hi flow therapy jets, these jets flow 6 times more water than the smaller jets so it needs bigger pumps and plumbing and crazy flow control systems so we can divert an entire 6 hp pump just into the captains chair. it also has the massive foot jets that again you can divert an entire 6 hp pump to… this thing is a hi-end therapy massage machine.

    Both tubs are great and remember most top brands do not do anything in the crazy end like Twilight so it is a bit over the top.

  281. Reply
    admin December 11, 2017 at 12:41 pm

    Hi Ben

    never heard of them until you asked.

    Had a quick boo and right off two big issues would make it a no go for me.

    1. no idea what that control system is but it is none of the big well made brands, I would simply never have anything but Balboa on my spa they are just so much better than the rest there really is no second…

    2. The insulation is cheap Mylar reflective with a bit of foam, man these radiant barriers are bad tech, they were all the rage in the 80’s and thousands of home owners got duped before the government in the norther n US states basically issued warnings about its cheap and has no thermal mass, and really only works effectively at reflecting radiant heat away from things it is no good at containing heat in a system.

  282. Reply
    admin December 10, 2017 at 9:50 pm

    Hi Tony!

    lol I know Shannon… Im Chris πŸ˜‰ but you can call me rick or you can call me Tony, just don’t call me late to the BBQ!!!

    Tropic |Seas is the entry level line form Artesian, good spas comparable tot he Clarity spas by Master or the Marquis entry levels line, you are doing good, on the right track.

    because you husband and you sacrificed so much for the country i did a bit of digging here are your non nightmare guys and you just let me know if anything goes wrong and ill ring their bell for you πŸ™‚

    here are your good guys:

    The Master from these guys (This is my go to brand)

    Vicki’s Pool And Spa Place
    1134 College Street, Clarksville, TN, 37040
    Phone: 931-645-9786
    pwlpools@aol.com

    the Marquis spa from these guys (stay away from the Hot Springs and their other brands)

    http://www.aqualandfun.com/

    The Artesians from these guys: (again stay away from the other brands)

    https://www.familyleisure.com/Nashville?code=NASH
    621 Muci Dr
    Antioch, TN 37013
    (615) 641-7665
    Email Store

  283. Reply
    admin December 10, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    If I can stop hot tub companies advertising i might consider it but these assholes keep trying to advertise which makes it look like I endorse them…

  284. Reply
    admin December 10, 2017 at 9:26 pm

    Hey Greg

    sorry for the delay I’m on vacation πŸ™‚

    Man if you mean twilight spas by Master then yeah go see them if you mean Twilight by PDC then run the heck away πŸ™‚

    For top build and higher end therapy spas see these guys (not sure why they are appointment only but it might be a back door int the factory for demo models in fort wayne if so you might get a steal…the brand is good:

    indysales@masterspas.com

    For a good well built spa see the Artesians here : https://www.familyleisure.com/Indianapolis?code=INDY

    For well build entry level go see these guys for the Nordic spas but stay away from thier Royal acrylic line… http://dspools-spas.com/products/royal-spa-hot-tubs/

    Middle of the road goto bullfrog, good spas except the cheap ass shell and the gimmicky overpriced pod seats πŸ™‚ :http://www.shroyerpoolsandspas.com/pools-hot-tubs-muncie-in.html

  285. Reply
    admin December 10, 2017 at 9:01 pm

    Hi Traci

    The marquis are good spas but don’t buy into all the miracle on board systems, by the hot tub standard and then use Aqua finesse or spa marvel… lower chems and easy to maintain. The Masters come with eco pure standard which is arguably the best free system out there but don’t buy into the miracle on board systems none of them are as good or cost effective as the aftermarket stuff.

    for the mid ranges they are dead equal, for the high end therapy spas the Master have more lines that really go tot he deep end and I know th boys at East coast rock the service end.

    check out these guys:

    East Coast Spas Inc.
    1424 Easton Road, Suite 300, Horsham, PA, 19040
    Phone: 732-823-8606
    ben@eastcoastspas.com

    and these guys:

    Barto Pool & Spa
    437 Bridge St.
    Phoenixville, PA 19460

    Email: info@bartopool.com

  286. Reply
    admin December 10, 2017 at 12:51 pm

    Hi Ash

    the Clarity or South seas are good spas but man that new layout on the Clarity is awesome, so much usable space, and 2 pump with lots of jets, its hard to beat in that class…

  287. Reply
    admin December 10, 2017 at 12:50 pm

    Good man glad to help you miss the pitfalls!

    Happy hot tubbing

  288. Reply
    admin December 5, 2017 at 12:03 pm

    Wow I dont know what to say.

    there are so few spa retailers around you and all the sites crash when i go to them.

    There are also an insane amount of local independent spa repair centers.

    The good news is you can buy anything from anywhere with that many local service guys you should be able to have great service and back up, these guys are usually better than retailers because all they do is fix hot tubs…

  289. Reply
    admin December 5, 2017 at 11:54 am

    The Max steel frame generally makes them a bit nosier, also the Twilight has the new NRS system which suspends the pump in a rubber hammock and is 150% quieter than most spas, it works really well.

    And from a performance standpoint the Maxx is more like the next line down, the jetting package and performance on the TS 7.2 is miles and miles better than that Maxx.

  290. Reply
    admin December 5, 2017 at 11:51 am

    Hi Rick

    he is correct the same spa same specs smaller shell, it actually has a bit better performance because a few less jets, and less water to move around and the same power plant, you still have that insane captains seat with the ability to put the whole 6 HP pump to it.

  291. Reply
    admin December 5, 2017 at 11:49 am

    Hi frank.

    unsure man its one of those brands that came and went vsry quickly, my gut would say stay away.

  292. Reply
    admin December 5, 2017 at 11:47 am

    Hey Dan

    Congratulations and I hope you enjoy the spa.

    Not up on that model in particular but in general the marquis stuff is well built and reliable.

  293. Reply
    admin December 2, 2017 at 3:22 pm

    Hey Rick

    master is hated int he industry because they do these big expo sales where they come into local markets and sell hundreds of tubs and leave πŸ™‚ drives local dealer nuts so there is a ton of backlash on rating sites, forums etc… read this article

    The artesians are good spas and if you have a local dealer then go with them.

    The Maxx stuff is middle of the road… but being in suny calif where you don’t get real cold weather that shitty blue maxx cheap insulation is not such a factor, the shells are mid grade and steel frames are noisy esp on an elevated deck.

    The weight should not be an issue because you should be restructuring the deck for any tub and to go from 300 gallons to 400 is very little cost difference for that structure work.

    these guys have Marquis and Artesian! both good goto brands http://whiteswanspas.com/

    these guys carry marquis so you can get some competitive prices http://www.californiamarquishottubs.com/

    You also have 4 independent service guys which means you can buy any brand out of market with a standard parts list and be well taken care of, frankly these independent guys usually have better service than the retailers because its all they do…

  294. Reply
    admin December 2, 2017 at 3:04 pm

    there are 2 good brands near you Master and marquis, bothare well made well supported brands.

    email these folks and see if they can help you

    sales@hottubsinc.com,
    kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com,
    ron@sparklepoolsinc.com

  295. Reply
    admin December 2, 2017 at 3:00 pm

    Hey james

    enjoy the slower lower πŸ™‚

    both these guys carry good brands and are absolutely your best choices in the area, there are a lo of big branded brands and little guys but only a coulpe great build brands. happy hot tubbing!

    Master dealer:
    Hot Tubs Inc.
    1925 Norfolk Drive , Owings, MD, 20736
    Phone: 410-474-8171
    sales@hottubsinc.com,kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    http://www.hottubsinc.com

    Marquis spas
    https://sparklepoolsinc.com/spas/

  296. Reply
    admin December 2, 2017 at 2:24 pm

    Hi Caity (kool name πŸ™‚

    You have a lot of great choices in fact you have my fave three:

    If you really want some mad therapy massage spas go look at the Twilights from Master, if you are more good all round hot tubs with a great mix of jetting and features any of the three brands will serve you well.

    -Master spas
    Nationwide Spas
    1834 Ferguson Drive, Austin , TX, 78754
    Phone: 512-364-1472
    jason@nationwidespas.com

    – marquis spas
    http://www.premierehottubs.com/Premiere-Hot-Tubs—Austin-v2-207.html

    – Artesian spas
    http://www.austinhottubsandspas.com/AustinHotTubsandSpas.php

  297. Reply
    admin December 1, 2017 at 1:42 pm

    The marquis are going to be a world better than the mass merchant stuff. The best bang for the buck in that price range would be rotomoulds. Getaway hot tubs,Nordic, Dream maker even hot spot…

  298. Reply
    admin December 1, 2017 at 12:53 pm

    I usually delete sales pitches and discussion comments, these sales pitches/debates are for the FORUMS NOT MY BLOG SITE… and should delete this one but I’m on vacation and feeling feisty so get the gloves on Boyo you don’t have a clue…

    Salt is old tech being regurgitated as some new miracle system stay the fuck away from it…

    Salt just gets you to 1-3 ppm of chlorine or bromine, and the damn anodes need service yearly. you can get 3-5 times lower chemicals with aftermarket stuff… Remember you are breathing that chlorine in… its nasty carcinogenic shit

    And the freaking salt is corrosive as hell say goodbye to the concrete, decking, and everything else around the spa from the over splash…

    Hot tub guys hate the fact that the aftermarket stuff like spa marvel or Aquafinesse get you to half a part per million of chlorine and are easier and way way cheaper… They like salt (and all the other bullshit expensive ad-ons for chemical reduction) because they make a pile of cash off the upsell and servicing the stupid machine… stay away!!!

    RD you are either misinformed or a dupe, or work for the marketing arm of the scum bags selling this snake oil, the science is clear this is not good tech and is riddled with issues and is high chemical and prone to failure, with health and property damage issues… BAD RD!!!

  299. Reply
    admin December 1, 2017 at 12:43 pm

    Those legacy’s are like hens teeth, they were a limited offer that ended in November, great value for the money, the jetting and performance will be better on the legacy but damn the open seating on that new clarity is awesome, if you are partying a lot it is a great roomy spa with good performance.

    so my determining factor would be this… if im entertaining a lot and its all about packing them in then the Clartiy, if its a family spa with the occasional party go Legacy.

    Tell the dealer there is an issue with the speaker on the legacy, the gaskets were missing from the speaker so they need to pop the speaker out and put a thin bead of silicone on the back of the speaker where it meets the shell or put a rubber gasket on then pop the speaker back into the shell.it back in to the shell

    The price is spot on on both.

  300. Reply
    admin December 1, 2017 at 12:35 pm

    lol OK but we don’t usually let guys hide behind private branding πŸ™‚ and they do put thier name on it… says strong right in the costco ad on the owners manual and contact details,,, Ill refer to it as the spa made by strong LMFAO.

    I have seen those covers, made out of the rotomould they are great, tell Strong to send me a spa and we will do a review of it, the review by the way will be what they always are, my honest opinion but if they are building to a better standard then the review will reflect that.

  301. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 9:34 pm

    The best in your area is the Marquis. http://www.rapidspa.com/specialty-brands/ (they also sell caldera, which I would not recommend)

    the second would be the Cal spa… http://www.spearfishfireplacesandspas.com/hot_tubs_spas

  302. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 9:23 pm

    Yes, it does but how the power is allocated to the seat changes.

    on the 8.25 one of the 6 hp pumps can be diverted right to the corner chair or diverted to the chairs to the right and left. On the 8.35 the 6 hp pump runs the main seat and the one to the left at the same time, although you could shut off the jets in that chair and have it all to the corner seat.

    on the 8.25 we can have a whole 6 hp pump to the floor jets, but on the 8.35 we can only have the 3 hp to the floor jets…

    Listen, I’m splitting hairs they are both awesome performance spas, I prefer the jet allocation and pump allocation of the 8.25. The big difference is I’m a greedy self-centred hot tubber… when I’m in a tub its all about me πŸ™‚ the 8.35 is better for multiple people but if its all about you and yer alone then the 8.2 can offer better performance.

  303. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 9:11 pm

    Hi Mike

    Enjoy your purchase, a good dealer is worth its weight in gold…

  304. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 5:40 pm

    Hi Lisa

    Do not take the circ pump! There are lots of issues with these low flow pumps… there is no upside and loads of downside… Your tub will be a lot more reliable without it!.

    Both tubs are great and perform super well, I actually like the 8.25 better because it has the ability to put a whole 6 hp pump to the captain’s seat and you actually move more water with 2 large pumps, but the reality is both are great spas.

  305. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    hey Scott

    most of the Therapy is the hot water πŸ™‚ the massage aspect the nordic retreat is pretty god. the only other one in the range i like is the Getaway Ochos rios… its a copy of the retreat, but with better insualtion…

  306. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    not really up to date on pricing issues, it changes so much depending on regions… sorry πŸ™

    happy hot tubbing!

  307. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 2:11 pm

    Hi Angie.

    Yer in a tough spot there is not a brand i can recommend out there, lots of small regional stuff that just not built right and lots of big equity investment firm brands with goofy cheap parts lists and fancy shmancy marketing and BS but no real gems…

    That being sadi you have no less than three good independent service centers that just fix hot tubs!!! no wonder with all the crap being sold out there πŸ™‚

    The upside is we could likely get you several good brands and partner with one of these local guys and get you a great spa at a great price with great backup… Ill ping you with some options.

  308. Reply
    admin November 28, 2017 at 1:56 pm

    Hi Shaun

    Years ago they would have been in tot ok group but since they got bought out by the company that owns \Jacuzzi its all about profit… mid grade propriatry parts, and plastic shells, not a brand I would sell or buy.

    You have some good options out there. In fact this is the first time i have had a customer in an area with my top three goto brands!

    #1 Master spas… Hated in the industry because they steal loads of cash from dealers markets but the reality is they build a super reliable tub with a great parts list that you can get easily anywhere. check out this article on why they get so much bad press…

    #1 Marquis spas again built right and unless you are looking at the crazy hi end massage spas like the twilights from master then they are going to be as good… both these two brands are built the same way with the same great parts lists.

    #1 Artesian Spas Again same gear and same reliability…

    #2 bullfrog If it wasn’t for the crap plastic sell these guys would be in the running even thought the stupid jet packs are a gimmick…

  309. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 5:20 pm

    Hi Mel

    sorry, wish I could be more help but there are not a lot of great choices out there. lots of great marketing companies and mid-grade build but none of the superstars.

    I would go see how long the dealers have been carrying their lines, go with someone who has not moved lines in long time…

    Brand-wise I would look at:

    1. The Artesian spas from: http://www.thepoolspashoppe.com/index.html good tub if they sell them. (not sure though cause the website is crap and the links are all broken… makes me wonder)
    2. The Bullfrog at https://www.tarsonpools.com/ – good parts and insulation, just not a fan of the shell.
    3. cant decide, there are issues with all the rest

  310. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 3:58 pm

    sounds like the right numbers

  311. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 3:18 pm

    Hi AR

    You answered your own question, the insulation and filtration systems are outdated and cheap, I am consistent in what I endorse… It’s not brands I endorse it is clarity in marketing and building to the right standard…

    I ab 100% against the cheap mylar insulation systems, They have proven to be ineffective and by telling customers that its a good system is simply dishonest… all the studies and most of the Northern US states and the Canadian Mortgage housing authority issued formal warnings against this insulation type when it was hammering the hell out of the Housing industry in the 80’s for a company to now touting it as a good insulation system in a hot tub is simple dishonesty…

    The same goes for the pitch about the self-cleaning floors and pressure filters… the reality is this again is old outdated tech and marketing the spa around half-truths and spin is simply not a good thing, add to that the cradle supported shell and it is simply not a product I would even consider putting on my floor, there are simply better-made spas for the same money.

    I have never approached them to buy their spas, there are about 4 brands I would sell because there are about 4 that do all the right things and the rest simply do not come to the mark.

    I get you are a successful dealer and that’s awesome… the reality is I always say a great dealer with a mid grande brand is better than a great brand with a mid-grade dealer.

  312. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 2:50 pm

    The Nordic is a good solid reliable spa, I’m not nuts on the insulation but it’s not a nightmare just not my top insulation system… all in all a good spa.

  313. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 2:31 pm

    Ok so I don’t even know where to start here, you are all over the map looking at the top Hot Springs against the lowest end of Artesian…

    First, off I prefer Artesian over Hot Springs… reliability wise the Artesian is going to beat it by a mile, and because the Artesian uses top North American parts list you cant be held to ransom for a goofy parts list like on the Hot Springs… I would sell Artesian I would not sell Hot Springs.

    Look at the higher end Artesian or the Higher end Marquis (they sell them at http://memphispool.com/caldera-spas-hot-tubs/) I would go with either of those two brands over the Hot Springs any day…

  314. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    Yes, Marquis are much better than any of those other brands on several fronts…

  315. Reply
    admin November 27, 2017 at 2:19 pm

    Hi Chris

    It’s not a Nightmare spa it’s a bit of the good and a bit of the bad like most spas…

    They use Balboa controls, that’s my number one rated heating and control system and IMHO an absolute must on a hot tub. They also glue and clamp the plumbing, and use the full foam open-celled insulation which is again the most expensive highest R-value system on the market.

    The Shell, on the other hand, is an ABS plastic shell, these were all the rage in the 90’s but had high failure rates. they are nowhere near as good or as expensive to build as a good hand rolled self-supporting fibreglass shell with a vinyl ester resin core… they have tried to overcome the weak shell structure by putting pedestal supports under it to bear the load, but it’s a band-aid solution and takes them out of my recommended brands.

    They have done a great job with the marketing and the pitch is all about scaremongering you into believing that all spas are leaky nightmares… the reality is good full foamed spas with glued and clamped plumbing rarely leak. the whole pod chair things are goofy and really limit where the jets can be, and cost a fortune to replace whereas with a good regularly jetted spa you can swap individual jets out easily and cheaply…

    I love real innovation that offers real tangible advantages but I hate this “create an issue so you can put some gimmick out to solve the issue you created”… this is not innovation its a gimmick and offers no real advantage and some serious drawbacks…

  316. Reply
    admin November 26, 2017 at 6:22 pm

    unaware fo the dealer but Marquis is general is a good spa. the spirit would be a decent therapy spa the other one is a basic hot tub.

    pricing is hard to say but I would expect the 5995 for the entry level and $6995??

  317. Reply
    admin November 26, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    Hi Julie

    I had not seen it but right off the bat the circ pump, the salt system and the radiant insulation make it an absolute no go… I could live with one or two of these techs but the radiant insulation is a kill for me, this stuff is cheap and not suited to purpose… almost all of the northern US states issued warnings about this crap when it was being touted as the next miracle insulation in the 80’s and it was basically banned in as a primary insulator in houses… a hot tub needs better insulation than a house because the temp difference is greater, therefore, the heat transfer rate is higher.. this stuff is cheap junk.

  318. Reply
    admin November 24, 2017 at 1:25 pm

    Beachcomber out fo that group is a good choice.

  319. Reply
    admin November 23, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    yeah that’s not a bad idea. you could also just dump a wheelbarrow of crusher dust down and level it then put the tub on it and then trim out the edge with thin slats or a bead of concrete or silicone to stop the crusher from washing away

  320. Reply
    admin November 23, 2017 at 12:18 pm

    Hi Doug, sorry Typo.

    Caldera is not on my good guy list, just the parts alone would make it a no-go for me Then the shell, I would never buy a shell that was not a hand-rolled self-supporting hull, these Polly and ABS backed shells were all the rage 20 years ago but they just did not hold up as well all the top stuff went back to good old glass with a vinyl ester resin core and hand rolled layers of glass.. expensive but indestructible. Def the Artesian of those two.

  321. Reply
    admin November 21, 2017 at 9:33 pm

    I said a good dealer is critical there are lots of dealers that are great at 200 miles away and lots that suck next door πŸ™‚

    of that group the only ones even on my short list would be the Marquis, then the Beachcomber I would not even consider the others for various reasons.

  322. Reply
    admin November 21, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    Man, I am not a fan of any of those brands, if you are even halfway handi and have a good dealer who knows his stuff you can have a very successful long distance dealer relationship.

    A great dealer is about knowledge and communication, not proximity.

  323. Reply
    admin November 21, 2017 at 9:25 pm

    For sure, the marquis and Artesian use a much better parts list and hand rolled self-supporting shells. they are miles and miles better from a build quality standpoint and ahead or on par from a performance standpoint.

  324. Reply
    admin November 21, 2017 at 9:24 pm

    Wow, that is such a scam.

    the air injection is on every jet housing and the handle and plumbing to control it is peanuts, I can’t believe the scams some people pull…

  325. Reply
    admin November 20, 2017 at 8:46 pm

    Hot Springs and Caldera are the same groups of companies, and Sundance is jacuzzi group, I’m not a fan of this equity investor-owned groups, goofy proprietary parts and mid-grade shell construction. the Bullfrog at least uses a good parts list, better insulation but again it’s those damn poly or ABS backed shells that just not in the same world as a good hand rolled fibreglass shell…

  326. Reply
    admin November 20, 2017 at 8:31 pm

    The vector 21 I have not laid eyes on but I am going to assume its built like the rest and is a good all-around spa.

    There are a lot of goofy things that really don’t seem like they are anything different than any other spa just new words and funny shapes πŸ™‚

    That being said the jetting looks good and I am assuming the big ones are still high flow therapy jets so it looks like it is specced out ok. I am not a fan of the volcano jet in the middle these were all the rage in the 80’s and everyone went away from them because they are a tripping hazard, I guarantee you will curse that jet taking up all the foot room and getting in your way…

  327. Reply
    admin November 20, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    The Marquis is a well-made spa. single pump systems typically are about hot water and have limited massage and the Broadmore is this, a nice reliable simple hot tub with a few jets. The Hollywood has a better jetting package and more jets.

    so really you need to decide what you are looking for, if its mainly hot water and relaxation then don’t spend the extra money, but remember… you can not add power or jets down the road and you will have that spas for a long time.

  328. Reply
    admin November 19, 2017 at 10:32 am

    Hi Bob.

    All spas have the ability to add air to the jets and it makes a massive difference to the velocity of the water stream.

    Use common sense when it comes to insulation, you want the cavity filled with expanding foam but you want an open-celled foam that does not harden and stays soft in case you need repairs down the road.

  329. Reply
    admin November 19, 2017 at 10:30 am

    Hi Max

    I use the Aquafinesse in my swimmer, and I use trichlor. the reason is this…

    Bromine was better when we were dealing with the 2-5 ppm high dosage because it smelled better and was easier on the skin, but trichlor is a better sanitizer. when we get down to this half ppm ranges it’s simply not worth spending the extra money on bromine, the level is so low you don’t smell it, it doesn’t dry your skin and again the trichlor will work better.

  330. Reply
    admin November 18, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    Of that group beachcomber for sure. I have a place in Clarksburg we are neighbours! πŸ™‚

  331. Reply
    admin November 18, 2017 at 7:54 pm

    I would lean towards the marquis, from a build standpoint this is a great tub. the other one might perform better but will not be as reliable.

  332. Reply
    admin November 18, 2017 at 7:52 pm

    IMHO the Watkins line is a mid-grade spa with a lot fo less expensive proprietary parts and the requests for help fixing them is way disproportionate to the sales volume. I would not sell the line, in fact, I turned them down when they came to see me, I am fanatical about not having these cheap proprietary parts, I don’t want myself or my customer having only one source for parts… I think the Watkins, jacuzzi master brands are very close from a market share standpoint so the numbers of people asking for help is wholly disproportionate also Caldera is not thier big line Hot Springs is.

    Caldera is not my second line, Marquis or Artesian or Masters are my tier one brands, then beachcomber, Cal spa.

  333. Reply
    admin November 17, 2017 at 12:39 pm

    Thanks Mark

    If you get a chance throw me some social media love!

  334. Reply
    admin November 15, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    The strong spas are the same as this one in the viral video… I would never buy a mass merchant hot tub…

    dude go see Phil

    South East Spas
    2838 Okeechobee Blvd., West Palm Beach, FL, 33409
    Phone: 561-328-3379
    phil@southeastspas.com

  335. Reply
    admin November 15, 2017 at 7:09 pm

    I had a cruise around the poolandspararating site and the rating criteria and rankings and it seems totally arbitrary and was before all the cheap pats came into being. I would say they are a Hot Springs dealer πŸ™‚

    I can’t find much real info on the Dr wellness a lot of vague references about inexpensive spas being affordable, It’s using some control and heating system I have never seen and I have seen all the top 5. I love the crazy free heat pitch about the friction manifolds πŸ™‚ The laws of physics are clear and they do apply even in the blissful world of your hot tub πŸ™‚ an electric immersion heater is super efficient… Friction heat means we take electrical energy transform it into mechanical energy of the spinning motor (loose a percentage from the transfer), then transfer it to water pressure in the pump (loose a percentage from the transfer) then convert the water motion back to mechanical energy of the friction heater (loose a percentage from the transfer) then make heat ..LMAO… it’s a gimmick… way less efficient than just using the electrical energy and making heat

  336. Reply
    admin November 15, 2017 at 3:14 am

    So for cold climates just focus on the insulation R-value. there is a really good reason why home builders all use R value… they have to… it’s legislated πŸ™‚ if only the hot tub industry was we would not have guys selling Mylar and perimeter systems. cant get you closer recommendations because your IP address is all over the place.

  337. Reply
    admin November 15, 2017 at 3:08 am

    OMG the fact that a sales guy takes this stance on insulation indicates a total disconnect from reality in regards to this field.

    I would take Caldera out of the picture, im just doing a stdy on the number of people looking for help fixing spas on the discussion forums and the Watkins brands (Caldera part of the Watkins hot springs group) account for over 30% off all people asking help to fix their failing spas…

    either the master or Artesian are built well.

    The little regional guy im unaware of but typically these guys cant afford to compete they simply do not make enough money to innovate or even adapt to real innovation.

  338. Reply
    admin November 13, 2017 at 3:30 pm

    yeah Sundance used to be good but they got bought out by big investment equity firm and now its all about margin spin and branding πŸ™

    Cal is the only one of the group that uses the good parts list but they seem to have a lot of issues in the build consistency. almost 5% of the requests for help on the forums from a customer with broken spas in Cal and they are a bit player so it’s really a lot of people trying to get help… always a red flag. I’ve been analysing data from the discussion forums (not what the “experts say” but specifically how many people are asking for help0 with which brands. The data is totally backing up what I have been saying for years. I analysed 20 pages (around 500 posts) and the big branded spas were crazy for breaking down.

    Watkins (Hot Spring Caldera etc) accounted for nearly 35% of the broken spas needing help, The jacuzzi group (Sundance, jacuzzi Dimension 1) were over 20% yet the biased experts will tell you they are the best spas :-), meanwhile Master Spas gets hammered on the forums mainly because they do these expo events in local dealers areas and take millions out of their markets so the experts hate them have 0 requests for help.

    I’m just working on an article about it now…

    go see these guys, the Marquis is a way better-built spa than anything else I found out there, its the only brand in your area I would put on my floor.

    http://www.sunleisurepools.net/hot-tubs.html

  339. Reply
    admin November 13, 2017 at 11:22 am

    Not big fan of this brand, they simply don’t spend enough on the construction and a lot of it is spa and marketing.

    Shell is good hand rolled self-supporting and it has a nice bottom but don’t be fooled you still need to do proper ground prep or the tub will not sit level so really it’s a side track issue and of very limited real value. see this video.

    They used to use Gecko control and heating system but they have gone to a cheap no-name brand likely from China. I hate these proprietary parts, they don’t work as well as the good stuff like Balboa and you can not get parts anywhere except through them which is simply a bad idea, I want a parts list that is competitively priced, readily available and better quality.

    They do not clamp the plumbing lines, they just dip glue them.

    The salt systems is old regurgitated tech, these systems are 1-3ppm chlorine or bromine and you are breathing that in, most guys went away from this tech a decade ago now because no one is using it some guys are re-introducing it as new tech… you can get 6 times lower toxic chem levels with aftermarket systems.

    The spa boy again is all gimmick… they say its automatic but you still need to do weekly tests and adjustments, it only telly you PH (you can buy an electronic ph meter for $20) you still need to dip and test alkalinity and test slat levels.. there are easier healthier and more reliable systems out there for much less money than this gimmicky outdated tech.

    The insulation is about R-8 and that crazy pitch about big air spaces being insulation is silly, these perimeter systems are just cheap simply as that.

    Taker all this into account and then ask why it’s so expensive? it with a cheap parts list, cheap plumbing, and cheap insulation it should be a mid-priced spa but the new business model is to build mid-grade, lock the customer into buying parts from you forever and spend lots on brand awareness and spin and marketing.

  340. Reply
    admin November 13, 2017 at 11:05 am

    goto a simple roto mould spa, good value for the money and if they are using the right parts then they will last.., Nordic is good but the insulation is middle, Getaway is my goto brand for these as they full foam, clamp the plumbing lines and use the right parts.

  341. Reply
    admin November 13, 2017 at 11:03 am

    good parts and plumbing and insulation, I do not like the ABS plastic shells, they are cheap and require supports (they use pieces of pipe under the seats to try and keep it from breaking) and the goofy pods are a gimmick.. they really limit the jet placement. most spas you can customise the jetting by simply changing the individual jets it’s a lot less expensive than buying a whole pack and easier.

    If a manufacturer is glueing and clamping the plumbing lines then the spas don’t leak, really its only ever been cheap spas that don’t clamp the plumbing lines that leak…

    It’s not a nightmare line but the shell is a deal breaker for me, I carried a few lines 20 years ago using these alternative, less expensive shells and they are simply nowhere near as good as a hand-rolled fibreglass self-supporting shell. for that reason it is a brand I would not carry.

  342. Reply
    admin November 13, 2017 at 10:58 am

    Both spas are built very well, they use good vinyl ester resin cored hand rolled self-supporting shells and Balboa controls and heating systems.

    from a performance standpoint, they are in two very different classes, beachcomber 740 compares more the healthy living line of spas from therapy massage standpoint, they do not do any really high-end massage spas. look at the jetting and flow control systems…

    If you want just well-built spas then wither will do for you but if its all about the massage then the Twilight by a huge margin… the best massage chair in the beachcomber has a couple of the good expensive hi flow jets and you can get around 3 hp through the seat, the top twlight seat has 7 hi flow and 4 mid flow and you can put a wqhole 6 hp pump through the seat, they are simply not in the same realm… for a better comparison to the Beachcomber look at a healty living, or legacy spa.

    the 740 should be around the $10-12k range but beachcomber pricing is bonkers… there is no justification for the suggested retails they are totally out of whack, the HL or legacy should be around the same 11k mark the Twilight should be around $13500

  343. Reply
    admin November 7, 2017 at 9:39 pm

    LOL Hydropool in Greece??? πŸ™‚ they cant even sell in the local market here worth a damn what the hell is the small regional guy doing over there??? LMFAO

    You could order something from here and ship it… what kind of pricing are they trying to get over there?

  344. Reply
    admin November 7, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    My list goes:

    1. Master
    2. Marquis
    3. Artesian
    Sundance, D1 Jacuzzi, all the same company, mid-grade shell loads of p[[arts you cant buy anywhere but through them, great marketing and branding
    caldera, Hot springs same group same problem.

  345. Reply
    admin November 7, 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Microsilk is not bad but its nowhere near as good as the aftermarket stuff. I would not buy it, i would use aquafinesse or mineralux

  346. Reply
    admin November 7, 2017 at 1:18 pm

    Hot Springs caldera freeflow all the same group… Funny enough the Freeflow is a decent sp but their “higher end brands” in my opinion are highs “brands” which simply means they have created a beautiful brand and marketing and pitch and wrapped these mid-grade products in the warm brand blanket of love… the reality is some companies spend the money on the build because they are not as good at the branding end which is great for you, the really sharp businesses know that the most profitable business model is to build a mid-grade with lots of parts that you cant buy anywhere else and wrap it in lovely bullshit spin, branding and marketing… Most of the guys in your area are great at the branding and the spin but most of the products there are a bit of good a bit of bad and a bit of ugly.

    If I had to choose one it would be Bullfrog but Im not a big fan of any of those brands. πŸ™

    Sorry!

  347. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:41 pm

    Hey Mark

    The first batch of water is the worst and its not a bad idea to run a urge through it right from the start.

    The aahsome is awesome… works great I think its the best I have come across.

    stay away from the eco pure because you have to have the circ pump option and thats just asking for trouble, stay with the 2 speed hi flow filtration system, but i think you might mean the Eco pure cartridge and yes use it… the reality is Aquafinesse is great but to really get to the low chems the zinc copper ion and ozone with the AF is what make it awesome… wow a lot of awesomeness in this post πŸ™‚

    ill email you a tip sheet for using the AF with that particular spas on board systems, ignore all the other instructions and make sure you use a god non chlorine shock…

  348. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:34 pm

    I like Artesian in general, they build good spas the way they should be built. the Rio is the island line which is the entry level so the jetting is fairly pedestrian, very few of the hi flow therapy jets and loads of the little inexpensive ones so its certianly not a high end therapy massage spa but I would say a good middle of the road performance with great build quality.

  349. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:28 pm

    Artesian for sure out f that lot, the big fancy brands with the big fancy branding and marketing are building mid grade spas and wrapping it in lovely branding and trapping you for life with cheap proprietary parts… Dont drink the Koolaid man they are wither spending the money on the spa or the spin and the bullshit you cant do both.

  350. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:25 pm

    Hi Olivia.

    its all about R value… go with a full foam spa, Master, Artesian, marquis. forget the pitch about these perimiter systems, and reflective foils, this stuff would never fly in the housing industry where its regulated so why would it work in a hot tub where you need even more R value because the temperature difference and therefore heat transfer is higher?

    all these systems are cheap simple as that, nothing out there costs more to make than filling the cavity with insualtion these meatheads are just spinning a pitch around these cheap systems to justify not spending the money to do it right.

    Just ask a builder what he would use in the wall of a house he will tell you that all the stupid cut corner options will not even meet code in a house.

  351. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:17 pm

    Tough to say… the price should be like 50% of new… its definitely a gamble so make sure you are paying for the possibility of that.

  352. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:16 pm

    Hi Sandy.

    The Artesian for sure out of those two, that plastic shell on the Bullfrog I am not a fan of, they have all these stupid pipes under neath to hold the shell together because its too weak to support its own weight with water and bathers.

    you really want to frame the deck out a foot on each side and make removable panels, that way no matter what happens you have access…

  353. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 5:14 pm

    The Artesian out of that lot for sure, but if you can find a master dealer in the area look at the Clarity spa… massive mount fo foot well space and nice open seating… brand new shell and its all about space…

  354. Reply
    admin November 6, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    I sent you a document to help

  355. Reply
    admin November 4, 2017 at 12:15 pm

    never heard of him, but like the Marquis in general.

    performance wise it is like most spas, a good mix of high flow and high pressure jetting.

  356. Reply
    admin November 4, 2017 at 12:08 pm

    Hey Jim

    every hot tub needs to be tested weekly for Ph and Alkalinity right on the Caldera site it says “There’s nothing to measure or pour. Simply dial in your use level on the mineral and bromine cartridges and insert them into the integrated housing. Other than testing your water weekly, that’s all you need to do! ”

    this uses a spa frog system which is a mineral cartridge (very similar to the Eco Pure on the HL) and this cartridge can be used on any spa nature 2 makes a similar system… in other words neither of these technologies should enter into the determination of what hot tub to buy because any tub can use them whether they are built in like the Silina and the HL or simply an aftermarket add on the result will be the same. The second cartiridge is bromine… again any spa can run this old tech… the reason your water is easy to manage is you have a nice toxic soup that nothing can live in but remember what ever you are soaking in you are breathing… so IMHO this system is old outdated high chemical.

    As for ozone… on hot tubs they are not very effective, to make a good ozone system would be very expensive and would have to include a pre-treatment on the air supply or pure oxygen, multiple absorption tanks and an ozone off gas destruct because breathing in ozone is hell bad for you… no hot tubs do this.. its too expensive and there is better tech, the hot tub ozone systems do very little.

    My point is all of the spa manufactures have a miracle system to make it easy and all are decent but none are as good as the aftermarket stuff like aqua finesse the industry gates this reality and will deny it vehemently because they want you on thier program to suck cash out of you for ever. watch this video…

    Now from a performance standpoint they both have similar jetting a mix of high flow and low flow jets but i was surprised to see dual diverters on the Caldera! usually you only need these on a tub with loads of the high flow jets like the TS or dyansty but then i noticed the Caldera only has 2.5hp pumps!!! lol the HL has twin 4’s so on the HL you can have the whole spa running at massage pressure but the caldera you can only have half the tub on high at a time… now this arrangement makes sense on a high end therapy spa where you are maxed out on pump size and have so many high flow jets that you have not other possible option but on this tub its just a cheap alternative… and with he Caldera you are stuck with a goofy proprietary parts list that is no where near as good as the top OEM stuff and forces you to buy from them for ever with no competition…

  357. Reply
    admin November 3, 2017 at 6:26 pm

    Hi Rob

    go roto mould its reliable and hard to break… go minimal bells and whistles and one pump… no one cares at a rental they just wana soak and drink.

    water quality is always an issue… spilled drinks and high usage are a big problem. stay with a hi flow circ system and put the filter rate up high.

    use like spa marvel and a floating dispenser for chlorine.

    try to find a Getaway spa or a Nordic

  358. Reply
    admin November 3, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    No i was on vacation πŸ˜‰

    this is a labour of love not a job although its starting to feel like a job πŸ™‚

  359. Reply
    admin November 3, 2017 at 6:22 pm

    Hi mark

    yer pretty demanding for a free site with one guy πŸ™‚

    it doesnt really matter if he has a new one for sale you can get warranty. but just ping master to find out.

  360. Reply
    admin November 3, 2017 at 6:21 pm

    I like Artesian well built spa with a good insulation package and a great parts list.

    copper ion is ok if it comes free but dont spend extra on it… go to spa marvel or aquafinesse

  361. Reply
    admin November 3, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    Marquis first then beachcomber.

  362. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:59 pm

    I swear Im going to open a store in that area… crazy how much action i get down there…

    im going to email you a tip sheet.

  363. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    congrats! I hope you enjoy the spa.

    Im not aware of wither product but there are loads of good ones.

    spa marvel, Aquafinesse, mineralux to name a few

  364. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    The LSX spas are solid spas and perform well, they are actually a higher end model that the TS normally my argument would be that the TS is better bang for the buck, but the LSX should work well and performs well.

  365. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:53 pm

    Hi and sorry for the crap site, I dont know my arse from a hole in the ground when it comes making a good efficient site πŸ™‚

    I love the TS tubs, and the 8.25 is fantastic, good build, good insulation, and outstanding performance check out this video i shot of mine.

    https://youtu.be/tsFC5S3AYZo

    stay away from the masterpur, you need a circ pump system for it and circ pumps are nothing but trouble.

    depends on the system you use… you can on that tub be around $20-$25 easy

  366. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Yeah for sure, its all balboa, waterways…

  367. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:45 pm

    Cant say i am a fan.

    Viking has been around forever but never really became a serious player, the problem is unless you get big enough you can’t afford to build everything to the top spec. While the parts are good, I don’t like the plastic shell, I really want a good Hand rolled fibreglass shell. The pipes are not clamped, and the insulation is not my recommended system. all in all its what most spas are, some good, some bad and some ugly…

    go see the Artesian spas here:

    Priano’s Billiards & Backyards
    (208) 292-4126
    318 West Haycraft Ave.
    Coeur d’Alene, Idaho 83815

    prianossales@gmail.com

  368. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:35 pm

    IKR? at least the car industry has regulations that keep them in the real world, this is the nightmare industry where spin and marketing rule…

    The bullfrog is like most… some good (parts, insulation) some bad (ABS shells) and loads of gimmicks (those goofy pods lmao)

    but better in my mind than the HS, I always stay away from anything with a goofy proprietary parts list designed to own your ass for ever…

    Go see these guys

    Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    4305 Ne Expressway, Doraville, GA, 30340
    Phone: 770-939-8000
    hottub@bellsouth.net
    http://www.atlantaspa.com

  369. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:30 pm

    Alot of misinformation on the videos turning non-issues into issues to scare you,

    They make a big deal about circ pumps which is a low flow filter system, I don’t like them. The modern 2 speed systems are quiet and efficient and give you the option of being able to filter 5x more water that these circ systems if you have a party or need to clean up the spa. all spas have an option for a circ pump.

    They talk about CD ozone as being a big plus, most tubs have them and they really don’t do that much for long.

    They spew alot of outdated information to justify a less expensive insulation system read this article… http://www.hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-insulation-systems-numbers/

    They use ABS backed acrylic, this was big 10 years ago, and most people went away from it, it’s cheaper to build but does not hold up well. the idea was that you could just vacuum form it and go, which is what they do… because of the issues we started fiberglassing the the ABS sheets and in the end went to Vinal ester resin with glass and acrylic, it’s strong and lasts.

    Its not a tub I would consider selling, a lot of spin and misinformation and really just a mid-grade small regional manufacturer that because of the volume can’t afford to the tech to do it right so he spun all the old tech into a pitch that makes it sound new and innovative.

  370. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:23 pm

    skin issues are tricky, they can have more to do with the acidity levels of the water, contaminants or sensitivities.

    Spa frog is a zinc or copper or silver ion system, similar to eco pure or any number of other systems, by them selves they help reduce chemical use but in my experience they are like all the rest, the enzyme or aqua finesse systems are different tech, the ion systems kill bacteria on contact the other inhibits bio film formation to stop culturing of bio cultures… one treats the symptom one addresses the cause.

    Aquafinesse is much better tech.

  371. Reply
    admin November 2, 2017 at 4:18 pm

    This is a great point and a big issue, rating water pumps in Hp is slippery πŸ™‚

    The Hl spa has two 10 amp pumps.

    Ignore pump power because what really matters is if the pump power is balanced for to match the flow rate of the jetting… which you dont have a hope in hell of figuring out πŸ™‚

    the big thing to be wary of is too many jets or too many big hi flow jets without a diverter system to concentrate the water into the seats.

    both those spas will perform very similarly

  372. Reply
    admin October 26, 2017 at 5:18 pm

    Hi Peter

    I am a busy man but I dont have anything from you that is outstanding.

    My oldest unanswered post is Oct 25th.

    sorry dude something must have gone wrong.

  373. Reply
    admin October 24, 2017 at 3:51 pm

    Maxx is like most brands, not a nightmare but not on my A-list either.

    The insulation is very inexpensive and caps out around R8 or so, they do not clamp the pressure lines.

    Steel frames I am also not a fan of, typically we use heavy frames to support thin shells, I can’t find any info but I bet they are not hand rolled fibreglass shells…

    The price of $5995 seems on par for this type of build construction

  374. Reply
    admin October 24, 2017 at 10:07 am

    So the Evolution was the spa I reviewed in this video :

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVpuTxjXq2o&w=560&h=315]

    The other one I am unaware of but all the jetting is the cheap bullet jets… mass merchants rarely do a good job at these speciality products. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/where-to-buy/mass-merchants/

  375. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 2:05 pm

    Look at the Getaway and Clarity lines

    Master Spas Of West Michigan
    2055 28th St Se, Grand Central Plaza, Grand Rapids, MI, 49508
    Phone: 616-475-7770
    mrspas01@aol.com

  376. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:29 pm

    HL is a good line, i think they went to click in jets but apparently its a new design and they are hoping to avoid the usual problem with these jets of breaking.

    other than that it is well built and well insulated and should be a good spa, price wise I would expect around $10-11kish

  377. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:26 pm

    should do you well enjoy and glad I could help

  378. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:25 pm

    Hi

    it could be a sensitivity to the chemicals, the beachcomber is a realy high chemical level system,

    or it could be contamination in the system.

    first is would try an alternative chemical like spa marvel or aquafinesse, see if that helps… and the reality is their are way to many possibilities to give you good advice.

  379. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:22 pm

    hey Chris

    The best performance spa out there is the Twilight series by master.

    check out this video, its a massage machine and its built as good as they get.

  380. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:19 pm

    Hi Roxanne

    Hotsprings is not a brand I personally would buy r sell… proprietary parts, and welll just too much money for what it really is, the branding and marketing is awesome and if you could soak in the brochure id say go but the reality is their are spas that spend more money on the spa and less on the branding bs…

  381. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:13 pm

    Hi Quinn

    I dont even have to spend a minute on research for this area, i get so much traffic from this area and the reality is you dont have any of my goto brands there.

    Hydropool, has good parts but the insulation and the old pressure filters and floor suctions (re branded as self cleaning) make it a no for me.

    The Arctic has a good shell but the parts and the insulation are inexpensive and again would make them a no go for me.

    Tidal fit uses the right gear and builds well, i would definitely go there unless you are going to buy out f market.

  382. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:04 pm

    Both are well branded spas with loads of proprietary parts, and dont really meet my criteria for a brand I would spend my money on.

    I like to see a good hand rolled fiberglass shell and a good parts list. I want to see money spent on the tub instead of the warm branding blanket.

    either will serve you similarly I would make sure the dealer has been dealing with the brand a long time… the goofy parts list makes the dealer supper important.

  383. Reply
    admin October 23, 2017 at 1:01 pm

    Hi Kate

    first forget the on board miracle chemical systems on all the brands, All of them are pretty good and none of them are anywhere near as good as the aftermarket stuff… spa Marvel, aquafinesse, mineralux… all very good systems and they work in any tub.

    As for brand if you want foot massage you want the big monster jets in the footwell and you need the ability to divert a whole pump to them… feet are tough old dogs and most foot jets are useless.

    The TS 67.25 is a monster, and built right, it has better jetting and more available power tot he therapy jets than most big tubs.

    try these guys

    Crocker Sales Co. Inc. (ma)
    9 High Street, Woburn, MA, 01801
    Phone: 781-933-2006
    hk@crockersales.com
    http://www.crockersales.com

  384. Reply
    admin October 20, 2017 at 8:38 pm

    I swear i get more people in this area of the us trying to find good brand than anywhere else in the US, sorry man resistance is futile, wrapping your product in a solid brand is what makes money and apparently that end of the country is particularly suited to selling.

    Find a dealer that has been carrying the same brand for years and has the solid reputation.

    but if yer reasonably handy or have someone that is buy a good spa with standard parts list and buy oyut fo market.. the spa will be better built last longer be more efficient and keep you out from under the thumb.

  385. Reply
    admin October 20, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    both brands are dealer reliant because of the propitiatory parts so def go with local on those two brands.

  386. Reply
    admin October 20, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    Dude do not get me started on financing…. its a gimmick and the governments are arseholes for letting the financial world make crazy rules….

    So say I can get a customer 7% financing….

    The honest person says “the finance rate is 7% and is clear and open about their dealings.

    The next person says I can get you 5%

    The last person says Ill give you 0% for 3 years…

    Wow one of these people is great…

    the other two are playing you…

    If i pay the interest difference to the finance company you get the 5% deal

    If I pay the finance company the interest for 3 years you get zero interest.

    Its always built into the price man don’t be stupid…No one is giving you zero interest they are simply paying your interest and making sure they have the profit in the deal to cover it…. Haven’t you ever noticed the final cash price is always high in the zero interest deals?

    From a trust standpoint the guy telling you what yer really paying is the honest guy the others are playing the edges…

  387. Reply
    admin October 20, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    Dude do not get me started on financing…. its a gimmick and the governments are arseholes for letting the financial world make crazy rules….

    So say I can get a customer 7% financing….

    The honest person says “the finance rate is 7% and is clear and open about their dealings.

    The next person says I can get you 5%

    The last person says Ill give you 0% for 3 years…

    Wow one of these people is great…

    the other two are playing you…

    If i pay the interest difference to the finance company you get the 5% deal

    If I pay the finance company the interest for 3 years you get zero interest.

    Its always built into the price man don’t be stupid…No one is giving you zero interest they are simply paying your interest and making sure they have the profit in the deal to cover it…. Haven’t you ever noticed the sticker price is high in the zero interest deals?

    From a trust standpoint the guy telling you what yer really paying is the honest guy the others are playing the edges…

  388. Reply
    admin October 20, 2017 at 7:59 pm

    suddenly a voice from above said “ASK YOUR WIFE YOU IDIOT… SHE KNOWS ALL!!!!

  389. Reply
    admin October 20, 2017 at 7:57 pm

    dude go see these guys

    Above & Beyond Pools & Spas
    203 Armour Rd, North Kansas City, MO, 64116
    Phone: 816-421-4011
    michelle@aboveandbeyondkc.com

  390. Reply
    admin October 17, 2017 at 5:35 pm

    we have done a few of gas and solar conversions. the reality is on a full foamed tub the number of years to recover your initial cost is so long it makes it barely worth while…

  391. Reply
    admin October 17, 2017 at 5:34 pm

    unknown… artesian seems to be lending the name out I think… I need to look into it, If it is built by them to the regular standard then ok but if its just a cash grab endorsement then not… it s on my to do list but i do have a job as well πŸ™‚

  392. Reply
    admin October 17, 2017 at 4:40 pm

    it depends on a couple things.

    the first is if you are handy or have a handyperson you can count on and want to do your own parts swaps (on the good brands they are plug and play and easy to replace)

    if you do you can save a pile on buying out of market, remote dealers will view these deals as Bonus deals and typically will go cheap.

  393. Reply
    admin October 14, 2017 at 1:53 pm

    A lot depends on how long the store has been carrying the brands… when you go to the dark side and buy a hot tub with a proprietary parts list then you really need a dealer local with a history of dealing with that goofy parts list or you are in trouble. a lot fo independent service guys won’t touch these brands so the dealer is key.

    With a good OEM parts list, you can always get parts and repairs are plug and play so if you have access to a handy person or are one you can venture further afield.

  394. Reply
    admin October 17, 2017 at 4:29 pm

    Marquis, the best of that bunch for sure.

  395. Reply
    admin October 17, 2017 at 4:28 pm

    it should be easy to get a motor and heater for this unit.

    ill ping you

  396. Reply
    admin October 17, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    Thermo spas is not a brand I would personally sell or recommend.

    The insulation system is a perimeter system they will sell against full foam systems by claiming it is hard to find leaks and to service but with the Icynene foam its not the case, the truth is its just a lot less expensive to do perimeter systems…

    The controls are good but the fact that they still use an air blower is a big warning sign. air blowers are cheap systems that blow cold air into the tub (even the heated ones are too cool), they are noisy and are used because it ups the jet count and adds value when selling but the reality is no one really uses these anymore except usually mass merchants and on-line guys.

    The 10 year warranty is pro-rated which means you pay after the first year 100% coverage for the first (1) year, 75% for the next two (2) years, 50% for the following three (3) years and 25% for the remaining four (4) years

    Also the labour aspect is only one year… You would be better with a 3 year parts and labor

  397. Reply
    admin October 12, 2017 at 1:14 pm

    Hey Shawn

    Those are old stomping grounds used to MTB the Rouge River Valley although I’m sure its developed by now…

    You Have loads of options out there but again if it is higher end therapy massage then the Twilight, in My opinion, is the best tub in the world right now. all around… good parts and build and more high-end therapy jets than almost any tub out there and you can put the whole 6hp pump through the captain’s chair… I’m broken and battered and it is my morning goto place.

    See the video I shot on my spa.

    try Grif, he is 50 miles away but he has good service levels and will take good care of you.

    Premium Wholesale
    , Toronto, ONT, M5A 1N1
    Phone: 519-895-0606
    griffryan@hotmail.com

  398. Reply
    admin October 12, 2017 at 12:59 pm

    Hi there

    Clarity is a brand new shell design this season and is probably the roomiest spa out there.

    The good thing about master is they build all the lines doing the right things. the only thing that changes really is the jetting and performance.

    The price is very good and for a good all round spa thats great for entertaining its a good buy for sure.

  399. Reply
    admin October 12, 2017 at 12:22 pm

    Its funny I get mired in the minutia πŸ™‚

    None of these brands are total nightmares, just none of them are awesome πŸ™‚

    D1 used to at least use a non-proprietary parts list but it was gecko and man iI love a Balboa System, these guys have some key patents that keep them in a class of their own. The Problem i have always had with the Hot Springs, Caldera is the damn Invensys control system.. man they have had sooooo many heater relay board and spa side controller failures it is insane… you look on the discussion forums and go to the thread where people ask for help fixing their spas… This is the only place on those forms that are not all bullshit industry people and guess what… there are a crazy high number of people asking for help on the Watkins spas (Hot Spring, Caldera, Limelight, hot spot)… The only one of the group using the good parts is the Bullfrog but they use that damn plastic shell with pedestal supports… Man I hate these things, they were all the rage 20 years ago and most guys went away from them because they just don’t hold up like a good hand rolled shell…

  400. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    To put the pumps under the skirt you only need to remove a bit of insulation on one side in the bottom corner where the insulation is already 3-4x thicker than 90% of the hot tub, there is almost no real R-value difference and the loss of the motors waste heat more than offsets this. The reason they get good CEC energy ratings has more to do with the fact that the tubs are tested at 60F so it really tells you very little about heat loss and much much more about filtration costs and beachcomber has those goofy circ pumps as standard so they get a good report πŸ™‚

    add to that the fact that you are pumping your hot water outside of that precious insulation envelope into a virtually uninsulated environment through 4′ of plumbing and there is no way on Gods green earth that it is better more efficient.

    And that is not even addressing the risk of equipment freeze up in a power outage…

    I bet the Hybrid has the circ pump standard and the other one is an option… that would account for the lower CEC energy report which as I mentioned really tells you very little about heat loss…

  401. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 4:01 pm

    no clamps on the plumbing and very inexpensive insulation system with low r-value and a story about magick fairies that make free heat…

  402. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 3:59 pm

    assuming the info is correct on the zenith and if the shell is a self-supporting shell its an ok price… the performance is going to be fairly lacklustre… it will feel like its doing a lot but all the jets are the inexpensive small jets and a few of the midsize but none of the hi flow expansive therapy jetting…

  403. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 3:55 pm

    Master Spas Indianapolis (by Appointment Only)
    8070 Castleton Road , Indianapolis, IN, 46250
    Phone: 317-999-5922
    indysales@masterspas.com
    http://www.masterspas.com

  404. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 3:54 pm

    go see these guys:

    Spas Factory Direct
    3919 Grape Road, Mishawaka, IN, 46545
    Phone: 574-272-2160
    spamanone@hotmail.com

  405. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    See I generally like the build quality of the Artesian stuff but I keep getting weird feedback about the sub line they are building. Im not sure about them and have not had time to check them out.

  406. Reply
    admin October 11, 2017 at 3:42 pm

    I have looked in the area before and not found a lot of good choices, all the big brands with their mid-grade spas wrapped in the cosy warm blanket of branding and spin but none of the really solid well built brands. πŸ™

  407. Reply
    admin October 7, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    I love the marquis stuff from a build standpoint but they don’t build anything in the Twilight range.

    You got to appreciate that master is huge… they build like 10 lines of hot tubs and the Twilight line is really built to win all the awards and be a serious therapy monster… The top marquis line is more like the Healthy Living spas from a performance standpoint… most top lines have 4-6 of the expensive hi flow therapy jets and a pile of the inexpensive smaller jets… you never see the kind of jetting like the twilight has and the ability to put massive amounts of water through the Therapy seats.

    Dude if you are all about the Massage then the Twilight is for you.

    I’ll push this along and see if I can nudge them along…

  408. Reply
    admin October 6, 2017 at 11:24 am

    Marquis for sure of that group or master dealer about 70km away worth looking at.

    The Marquis and Master are very similar from a build standpoint the lines stack nicely against the Masters unless you are looking for crazy high-end therapy massage. If you are then go have a look at the Twilights.

    The master dealer is
    Hot Tubs Inc.
    1925 Norfolk Drive , Owings, MD, 20736
    Phone: 410-474-8171
    sales@hottubsinc.com,kgreenwell@hottubsinc.com
    http://www.hottubsinc.com

  409. Reply
    admin October 4, 2017 at 12:24 pm

    Man, I get a lot of fo requests from this area.

    You have the regular stuff down there:

    You have the guys with goofy parts list which is an absolute deal breaker for me, I never would sell or buy a line that did not have the North American top OEM parts so that takes the Sundance, caldera, Arctic, Jacuzzi off my list.

    Then you have the Bullfrog with the good parts but I am not a fan of the ABS shells… any shell that is too weak to support its own weight with water and needs pedestals to carry the weight is a no-no for me.

    The Strong looks good on paper but that was a strong spa in the Costco video that went viral…

    Vita is middle of the road, in my opinion, steel frame I do not like, its a gimmick and noisy.

    The biggest problem I have is the reflective insulation system, it’s cheap and not very effective.

    There are a lot of different reflective surfaces but the truth is it does not change the fact that they are reflective insulation only dealing with radiant heat and the backing has minimal thermal mass.

    The problem with radiant insulation is that it is just not that good at containing heat in a system, especially when installed in a hot tub. Radiant barriers work well at bouncing heat away so in Florida they are good in attics to keep the heat out.

    There are enough studies out there to make a good solid scientific case against these radiant systems used to contain heat in a system and the reality is some hot tub company with some marketing spin is in no way changing that scientific data.

    copper, whiteboard, Bi pet foils they are all the same theory.. reflecting infrared spectrum back… Changing the reflective material has almost no effect because it’s not the quality of the reflector that is in question it is the science of reflective insulation systems being applicable to this application that is in question.

    The only guy I know is 2 hours away which for a good dealer is doable and that’s crocker sales 9 High Street, Woburn, MA, 01801
    Phone: 781-933-2006
    hk@crockersales.com
    http://www.crockersales.com

  410. Reply
    admin October 3, 2017 at 11:58 am

    Man in Vancouver it’s too cold to scrimp on insulation… It always amazes me… I could not use a couple of inches of blue max in my house… it would not come anywhere near to code yet I can put it in a hot tub and claim its awesome πŸ™‚ A tub needs better insulation than a house because it’s hotter so the temp dif is higher so the heat loss is higher.

    funny I don’t get a lot of action in Canada but I do on Vancouver Island… I know you have a couple good guy there that do independent service which means you could buy out of market…

  411. Reply
    admin October 3, 2017 at 11:51 am

    same company for both brands… If the local dealer has carried the line for a good 5 years minimum then you might be ok… The issue with these brands that use these goofy parts is that most service companies won’t fix them so you really need a reliable dedicated local guy…

  412. Reply
    admin October 3, 2017 at 11:49 am

    So from a construction standpoint, these two spas are very similar, both hand roll self-supporting fibreglass shells with vinyl ester cores, both you Balbo heating and control systems, glue and clamp the plumbing and use Icynene foam insulation…

    The 3 differences:

    – Hybrid with the pumps outside on the beachcomber is old tech being regurgitated as new, it is bad technology… you only gain a tiny amount of foam in a location where the foam is already twice as thick as the rest of your hot tub and for that you trade off the ability to reuse the motor heat, this already is a bad trade, the little bit of extra insulation where it is already overinsualted offers nearly nothing while the loss of the motor heat is huge… disconnect the heater on the master and it will stay above 80 from the waste heat it reclaims… add to this the risk of equipment freeze up in a power outage and the fact that you are pumping your nice expensive hot water outside of the insulation envelope into a virtually uninsulated step makes this just bad tech done for a Unique selling feature.

    – Performance. The beachcomber tops out performance wise like Master spas next line down called healthy living. a good mix of high flow therapy jets and regular jets. the twilight is in another world… the jest package alone is worth twice as much and the performance of the main chair on the twilight literally flows twice as much water as the top beachcomber… the Beachcomber is a well-made hot tub the twilight is a well-made therapy massage spa.

    – The pricing is batshit crazy…. I saw beachcomber summer sales pricing and laughed so hard I almost pissed myself, the suggested retails are arbitrary and massively overinflated… and you are not getting the TS for 8k πŸ™‚ that’s a price to get you in the door you should pay around 11k and the BC should be a grand cheaper.

  413. Reply
    admin October 2, 2017 at 4:51 pm

    No worries, I type a lot too πŸ™‚ and my Buddy Elon is going to make internet free and highspeed and everywhere πŸ™‚

    Most of the stuff around you is middle of the road, couldnt find any of my top brands there.

    try and find someone who has had the same brand for 5 yrs +

  414. Reply
    admin October 2, 2017 at 4:17 pm

    I don’t know for sure, I’m trying to find out f they build it our licence the name or if its a separate factory and build standard… no luck so far, I’ll try calling them again,

  415. Reply
    admin October 2, 2017 at 4:16 pm

    It’s a Limited edition built on the healthy living platform with an open seating style… bang for the buck one of the best buys out there right now but they are done… Sept 1st was the last date to order them, they are like hens teeth!!! grab it

  416. Reply
    admin October 2, 2017 at 4:10 pm

    Dude you are in my backyard!

    I never get people from my neck of the woods, everyone is from away πŸ™‚

    Ill ping you

  417. Reply
    admin October 2, 2017 at 3:54 pm

    if they have been selling the line for 5 years or more than even though it’s not my goto brand at least they will know its issues and be able to take care of you.

    On the other hand, a great dealer is key, but a great dealer is not about proximity. It’s about knowledge and communication, there are always local handymen or electricians that can swap parts on a spa using the good OEM parts…

  418. Reply
    admin October 2, 2017 at 3:27 pm

    Hi James

    Yeah, I am not a big fan of the brand, I tore one apart and can see no justification for the high pricing, Rising dragon jets, no-name control systems they are having made in Asia, very little insulation and they don’t even clamp the plumbing.

    dude go see the boys at Krevco, they sell Master, Its one of my goto brands. http://www.krevco.com/

  419. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 8:50 pm

    You have two brands there.

    the guys at Allstar Pool & Spa do Master they are my goto brand and the guys at Family Leisure Birmingham do Artesian a close second, if you are looking for anything other than the crazy hi end therapy massage spas either line will keep you in the good world, if you are after therapy massage spas then the Twilight line at Allstar is way above anything else out there…

    Allstar Pool & Spa
    1821 Tin Valley Circle , Birmingham , AL, 35235
    Phone: 205-655-8870
    pools1821@aol.com
    allstarpool.com
    https://www.familyleisure.com/

    Family Leisure Birmingham
    description
    7701 Ludington Lane
    Birmingham, AL 35210
    (205) 951-0707

  420. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    Me and you are kindred souls! all my major bust-ups were adrenaline-fueled idiocy so I guess its all my own fault πŸ™ My wife’s fam come from Lethbridge maybe yer my fifth cus 6x removed πŸ™‚

    I wasn’t up on them so I did a bit of poking. They don’t say much on their site about the important things, just a lot fo side track and bells and whistles crap.

    looks Like a Geck control and def, not an insulation system I would sell in a cold climate. likely not a nightmare brand just more of the norm…

  421. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    IDK both I have issues i guess the HS if and only if the dealer has been carrying the brand for 5+ years… these things use goofy parts and a lot of service guys will not touch them…

  422. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 5:42 pm

    You see a lot of times manufacturers will keep an outdated system because the cost to update is too high and because a clever marketing guy can put a good spin on it and if it convinces the customer that it is new and good then all of a sudden they have what is called in marketing circles a β€œunique selling Point” Often times things are not really done because they are better, they are done because they are less expensive and they have a good β€œspin” to them which means you can make people believe in it, and if people believe it and you’re one of the only guys doing it then you have a unique selling point and that can close deals!

    The first example of this is the filtration system, It is an old pressure filter systems and the β€œspin” Coat has put on it is great!! People love the sound of a β€œpressure filter” housing, heck it’s filtered under pressure! It must be good! The reality is almost all of the industry has moved away from this filtration system and moved on to β€œsuction side” filtration.

    There is one big difference between the two systems: On older β€œpressure filter” systems the water is filtered on the pressure side of the pump and on suction side filtration it is filtered on the suction side of the pump! That means that on this older pressure filter system the water goes through the pumps and through the equipment before it gets filtered!!! The accumulation of debris in the pumps and in the heater elements can cause damage and it just makes sense to filter that water prior to it going through the equipment! That is exactly why 95% of the industry abandoned these old pressure side filters decades ago and moved to suction side filtration, it filters the exact same amount of water but it does it before the debris goes through the heater and the pump.

    Another pitch they use is that when you remove the filter the debris from the filter won’t fall into your hot tub water. Its silly because the debris falls into the filter housing and when you put the clean filter in and turn it on half of that debris gets blown into the tub anyway πŸ™‚ not that it matters, the little bit of debris that falls into a hot tub or the filter canister when changing the filters gets re-trapped in a few minutes…

    The next bit of misleading craziness is that they say that it is 100% filtration! This is just using a buzzword to fool you… How all filter systems really work is the water goes through a filter which cleans all the debris out of the water, then that water gets dumped back into the tub so right away it gets mixed into the unfiltered water… over time more and more water is filtered and after a few hours there is no debris left. The only way to really have 100% filtration is to pump the water through a filter into another container, then once it is all filtered you can put it back into the hot tub… This is simply dishonesty and they should not be claiming it is 100% filtration it is marketing Spin all of it… It is a cheap outdated filter system with a nice pretty bow on it…

  423. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 5:39 pm

    Coast does not to a great insulation system and although the rest sounds good on paper never been a big fan.

    The Beachcomber is a better spa but Hot Tub Universe sells masters there, they have a couple hundred customers in Moncton and have better spas and better service levels, I hear they are opening a store there in the spring.

    902-576-5115

  424. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 5:37 pm

    go look at the Catalinas at orleys, best in your area, I personally would stay away from the Arctics.

  425. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 5:22 pm

    dude artesian is one of my goto brands built well and doing the right stuff.

  426. Reply
    admin September 28, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    man, there is very little out there, Hotsprings with their Master of Confusion parade and everyone else is miles away.

    unless you are or know a good handyperson and buy out of the market you really don’t have any choices…

  427. Reply
    admin September 27, 2017 at 11:25 am

    any of those tubs will work well, My preference is the marquis from a performance standpoint and they are very similar from a build standpoint, I prefer to stay away from external pump systems.

  428. Reply
    admin September 27, 2017 at 11:24 am

    perfect for a vacation home, lots of room that shell is the roomiest 7′ tub I have ever seen, you can pack people in and it will work well.

  429. Reply
    admin September 27, 2017 at 11:22 am

    either are good tubs. they would be 2 of my goto brands

  430. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    I love the twilights and think bang for the buck it is the best-performing spa on the market.

    It’s not that I dislike LSX, its a well-made spa with top components I’m just not sure if you need to spend the extra cash for a great spa.

  431. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 4:02 pm

    if you want a real high-end therapy triangle spa your choices are very limited.

    the best would be the twilight 240 massive jetting and power in a small tub.

    these guys can help

    East Coast Spas Inc.
    , , , 10606
    Phone: 203-460-0514

    http://www.eastcoastspas.com

  432. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 4:00 pm

    don’t like the parts list on the envoy, these guys having less expensive parts made that just fit their spas instead of sticking to the ultra-reliable OEM parts makes this a no go brand for me.

    cant find an artesian dealer but there is a Master dealer near you.

    East Coast Spas Inc.
    , , , 10606
    Phone: 203-460-0514

    http://www.eastcoastspas.com

  433. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    bought by the jacuzzi group, last i saw they had gecko electronics and built a decent spa but with a perimiter insualtion.

    not on my top list but not a nightmare brand.

  434. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 3:47 pm

    Stay strong Kathy, beat that stuff in yer head and your body will follow!

    if by therapy you specifically mean massage then you can’t beat a Twilight spa, for general hydrotherapy then any of the well build brands.

    try these guys they carry some Master stuff its one of my goto brands.

    http://9d8.6c3.myftpupload.com/

  435. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 3:40 pm

    Beachcomber out of that group would be my choice.

    Not a fan of Arctic at all, good shell and the rest is middle of the road. Pinnacle again would not be on my floor

  436. Reply
    admin September 26, 2017 at 3:38 pm

    I am curious as well, not sure if it is built in the same factory or not, funny I am dealing with another person in your area on the same spa.

    Assuming they are building to the same standard as the Artesian stuff it looks like a good entry level spa. the jetting for the therapy seats is what you would expect on a mid-grade spa and the power again is middle of the road.

    I’m never too excited about the onboard systems not because they are bad but because the aftermarket stuff is better and needs nothing extra on the tub so it costs less and is typically lower chemical than the onboard systems can provide… so far… πŸ™‚

    $16,500 is about where it should be price wise again assuming its using Balboa controls and waterways jets and fittings and its got a good expanded foam package AND THE SHELL IS A HAND ROLLED GLASS SHELL AND THEY GLUE and clamp their plumbing…. I really need to have a chat with these guys and see what they are doing…

  437. Reply
    admin September 25, 2017 at 5:31 pm

    Don’t like Pinnacle guy dumped a load here and went bust, good parts but that’s the best of it. The Beachcomber would be my goto but man are they overpriced.

  438. Reply
    admin September 25, 2017 at 5:30 pm

    Of that lot I like the Marquis, its the best built of them and it uses a good easily sourced parts list.

  439. Reply
    admin September 24, 2017 at 12:29 pm

    Size is the only real difference… if you want bigger and don’t mind paying more then why not…

  440. Reply
    admin September 24, 2017 at 12:28 pm

    The beachcomber out of that lot for sure, You also have a couple independent service guys there so you could look at buying out of the market.

    Great dealers are more about great communication than they are about proximity Its funny most of the requests I get are US but I get a lot from Ottawa.

  441. Reply
    admin September 22, 2017 at 7:33 pm

    Still the marquis is my bet

  442. Reply
    admin September 22, 2017 at 7:33 pm

    The frame in a good hand rolled shell is just to hold the skirt on… When you see a big beefy frame it is because the shell is crap and they need a frame to hold it together πŸ™‚

    2-3 inches of foam in a warm climate is not that big of a deal, but it still costs more…

    Out of that group, the only one I would put on my sales floor would be the Marquis… see the video on the dynasty in the spa review section

  443. Reply
    admin September 21, 2017 at 4:28 pm

    from you IP I would say go see these guys and look at a Twilight or healthy living, top spas, well made.

    Peaceful Pool and Spa, Inc.
    25 College Highway (Rt 10)
    Red Rock Shops
    Southampton, MA 01073

    Phone# (413) 527-1358

  444. Reply
    admin September 21, 2017 at 4:20 pm

    Beachcomber, the only bad thing about that brand is the stupid Hybrid pump outside deal… and I think you can order it without that hybrid option, they are also ridiculously overpriced. but they are built well, use a great parts list and have clamped and glued plumbing.

  445. Reply
    admin September 21, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    That seems like a high price to me but not outrageous, the reality is you need to let a retailer make enough that they can afford to take care of you πŸ™‚ I find a lot of time when the price is too low the dealer is lazy… lmfao

  446. Reply
    admin September 20, 2017 at 6:47 pm

    Artesian for sure

  447. Reply
    admin September 20, 2017 at 1:39 pm

    Hey, Manny! 20 years ago all spas lasted 20 years πŸ™‚ now they are engineered to fail like everything else πŸ™‚

    Dude I looked at like 15 places and none are carrying the brands I would put on my floor, there was a guy selling the garden spas by artesian but I haven’t seen those yet and am not sure if they are built like the regular line.

    This is the closest but he is aways away trying and gauge his service out there, it might be he has a local guy in the area…

    david@davidshomeentertainment.com
    davidshomeentertainment.com
    Your local Master Spas dealer is 126.3 miles away.

  448. Reply
    admin September 20, 2017 at 1:29 pm

    Hey Terry

    Mass merchants suck at this business, it needs specialist knowledge and the reality is they do not sell many tubs. Trust me I suppled Costco and the biggest mass merchants in the world for years.

    One top producing local dealer will sell more hot tubs than all the costco’s across the country combined… and that tub is the one in the viral hot tub video below.

    D1 out of that group the Hot Springs are goofy parts and over priced in my opinion.

  449. Reply
    admin September 19, 2017 at 2:38 pm

    You have some options down there.

    your local guy seems to be mostly a pool guy, can’t even find a brand of hot tubs. best Brands would be master and Marquis, both built right Master will have some higher performance models that Marquis doesn’t offer but in the mid-end they are fine.

    my first goto would be these guys: for a Master

    Crocker Sales Co. Inc. (ma)
    9 High Street, Woburn, MA, 01801
    Phone: 781-933-2006
    hk@crockersales.com
    http://www.crockersales.com

    Then try these guys for Marquis

    APOLLO POOLS AND SPAS
    8 Harding Street
    Lakeville, MA 02347
    GET DIRECTIONS

    CALL US
    Phone: 508-923-7381

  450. Reply
    admin September 18, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    of those two brands the Coast spa but…

    it’s very rare for me to get requests from my local area most of this comes from the US where the site ranks super high. But I guarantee you I have over 200 spas in Moncton with a 5-star service rating on Google and BB A+ and a store opening there in the spring… I literally send a truck a week down there πŸ™‚

  451. Reply
    admin September 18, 2017 at 3:46 pm

    yeah a big difference, in cold climates like yours you can only stay in a plug and play for 10-15 minutes and its getting too cold.. the 240v will have a heater 4 or 5 times bigger…

  452. Reply
    admin September 18, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    This is a strong Pool and spa.. the same one in this video…. https://youtu.be/vVpuTxjXq2o

    need I say more?

  453. Reply
    admin September 18, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    You have nothing out there within an hour, this means you really need a good dealer with strong communication and a good local handy person. which also means you can buy out fo market…

    The reality is a great dealer is not about proximity it’s about knowledge and communication, I have over 100 hot tubs over 3 hours away (some over 5000km away) and all of those people would call me a good dealer because when they call we know the information to give them and the reality is getting a local handyperson to swap parts is not hard to do…

  454. Reply
    admin September 18, 2017 at 3:29 pm

    $6500 is a good price but I just can’t endorse putting yourself in the position of being stuck with a proprietary parts list with no competition for pricing and no options except the manufacturer for parts.

  455. Reply
    admin September 18, 2017 at 3:25 pm

    Man, you are buying all the stuff I do not like… Hydroppol has a good parts list and clamped plumbing but that old self-cleaning nonsense with the old school pressure filter systems!!! run away, also the insulation is pants, these reflective systems are cheap and ineffectual.

    I really do not like this brand, http://www.hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/

    and reflective foils were ousted from the building industry back in the 90’s after tons of government warnings about its ineffectiveness and is now a miracle insulator in the hot tub industry. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

    and finally salt systems are again 20-year-old tech being reintroduced.. it only gets you to 1-3 ppm of chlorine or bromine and its a pain in the ass to manage and to keep running. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/chemical-free-hot-tubs/

    http://www.hottubuniversity.com/salt-systems-on-hot-tubs/

    at 12k you can buy loads of good spas.

  456. Reply
    admin September 16, 2017 at 10:36 am

    Hey Josh

    it depends, frankly a lot of time the older ones were insulated quite well. what did it get in it for insulation?

    also in SF it’s not a big deal like in a cold northern state.

  457. Reply
    admin September 15, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    Yep, it’s an enzyme system that lets you go to low chemical. never used it personally just because I have had great results with spa marvel

  458. Reply
    admin September 15, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Hi Kristine

    I that’s a great idea with the towels πŸ™‚

    for now throw them in the dryer 10 mins before you go out and then throw them in a cooler to take out with you πŸ™‚

  459. Reply
    admin September 13, 2017 at 1:38 pm

    So I had a chat with a nice old guy at Alps spa factory, then a sales guy… You owe me some social media love dude I spent a lot of time on this one πŸ™‚

    They use a 1/2″ open cell foam on the shell and then a 3/4″ foam with mylar on the skirt, I’m not a fan of these systems, they are inexpensive and low r value and reflective foils are not good at retaining heat in a system, they have no thermal mass and when installed vertically create a lot of convection.

    Good electronic and heating systems mid grade jetting.

    The shell is not a hand rolled fiberglass shell its an ABS backed acrylic, these were big 20 years ago and had a lot of issues the good guys all went back to hand laying glass…

    glued and clamped plumbing

    try these guys they carry master David’s Home Entertainment & Recreation
    2566 Asheville Road, Waynesville, NC, 28786
    Phone: 828-452-5534

  460. Reply
    admin September 13, 2017 at 1:23 pm

    Hi Jeff

    Yeah, I’ve looked at the WR stuff and both the shell and the insulation I am not a fan of, Parts wise and they are good and performance wise they are entry level to upper mid.

    I’m not saying it’s a nightmare spa it’s just what most stuff is… a bit of good, a bit of bad, and a side of ugly…

    Look at the Nordic, similar insulation package and the roto mould shells last for ever, also a good parts list and good plumbing system.

    Cal or even D1 would also be a better bet out of that group.

  461. Reply
    admin September 13, 2017 at 1:13 pm

    Nordic is great except the installation is not great.

    Coast I don’t like the old pressure side filter systems.

    Hrdropool I don’t like anything except the parts list

    Bullfrog I don’t like the cradle supported shell.

    its really hard to find brands that really do all the right things.

    Re think the 110v option, in the cold climes like the Sault they get cold really fast on cold days once you take the cover off.

    try and find a Getaway Hot Tub Ochos rios… basically a Retreat with better insualtion.

  462. Reply
    admin September 13, 2017 at 12:53 pm

    $6-9k is a big range, at the 6k mark be careful it’s a dangerous price point. there is a lot of junk in that price range but there are also some real gems.

    If the main goal is r&r then stay away from bells and whistles and big jet counts, keep to something simple, well build and efficient.

    6k-7k go for a Getaway roto mould spa, arguably the best put together entry level spa out there. in the 8-9k then go to the Marquis or a Master

  463. Reply
    admin September 13, 2017 at 12:49 pm

    Coast is a mixed bag, the jetting on that tub is middle of the road, there are only 5 of the expensive hi flow therapy jets and a few mid flow and loads of the inexpensive low flow jets.

    I do not like the pressure side filtration, its old technology being recycled. 90% of the industry abandoned this tech 20 years ago to move over to suction side filtration. Read the fourth paragraph in this article it explains the filtration systems

    Good shell, good parts, do you knpow what they use for insulation?

  464. Reply
    admin September 11, 2017 at 8:19 pm

    It could be worse, you did get the pro sales guy that created urgency and closed the deal but the Artesians are not a nightmare and you ended up a little high in price but not the end of the world… could be worse dude…

    There may be a law in Ontario about a cool down period applicable to truckload or other sales but if it was done on their premise it might not apply.

  465. Reply
    admin September 11, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    No problem, give me some social media love will ya?

  466. Reply
    admin September 11, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    The only thing the Jetsetter has is the back roto monstrosity and that because no one has ever bothered to copy that thing in 20 years, not because it’s hard to duplicate but because it isn’t that good…

    The Jetsetter is going to lock you into a goofy parts list with limited availability and non-competitive pricing where as the Master is equal or better on the build quality and performance but frees you up with a parts list that is NA compliant and easy to source and better and competitively priced…

    This new way of doing business sucks… the most profitable business model for a hot tub manufacturer is to build a mid grade mid cost tub, spend scads on BS marketing, gimmicks, and brand awareness and lock the customer in for life with a goofy parts list that you can control distribution and pricing on….

  467. Reply
    admin September 11, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    Mike, you are singing my song….

    Sometimes the information is not right for a number of different reasons. it varies from nefarious to simple misinformation, misunderstanding, to proper full on deceit and everything in between.
    some times it is just the grey area…

    heat reclaiming systems have always existed, the motor waste heat on almost any tub with an internal pump system is quite efficient. But some companies make a point of putting a $5 pipe on it then spin it like call spa used to do and according to some guy named Mike what Hot springs are now tech regurgitating :-), some put cheap insulation in their spa and make the heat recovery the excuse of why they don’t fill the cavity and most just accept it as a given and don’t talk much about it. hell, he might have read somewhere that it’s not effective and just is not clear on that minuscule fine point for hot tubs… there are not a lot of people that know what I know LMFAO πŸ™‚

    You can remove and replumb a circ pump system and the reality is for some people it works fine but there are really no advantages to it in my opinion so I would be loathe to spend money on it…

  468. Reply
    admin September 11, 2017 at 2:11 pm

    Endless Pools has been bought by the Watkins group that does Hot springs, endless pool etc, not a fan of the company.

    Endless pool was an upper-end swimmer, but the H2X is right up there and that price is awesome.

    Forget Thermo.

    I like the H2X line, it built right, flows terrific current and has a great flow dynamic that helps keep you in the flow stream.

  469. Reply
    admin September 11, 2017 at 2:08 pm

    hmmm it might be that they have changed to a cheaper insulation, I will look into it but if they have they are off my prefered brand… reflective foils are cheap junk…

  470. Reply
    admin September 10, 2017 at 4:28 pm

    The tub is fine i just laugh at how they changed the names and looks of all the jets and controls to make it sound new πŸ™‚

    also on the 94’s they use volcano jets I dont like,m you trip on the damn things all the time, they are better if they are in the side of the footwell..

  471. Reply
    admin September 10, 2017 at 4:26 pm

    So bromine I never recommend and with an Eco Pur esp you need chlorine.

    shock it hard and switch to chlorine.

  472. Reply
    admin September 10, 2017 at 2:48 pm

    Hey Mike

    They are not standard on the masters, they are an add on. the local dealer might just have them in stock that way so they are standard for him…

    There is nothing wrong with the vac formed the bottom, I just don’t know if it’s worth buying I would say there is very little energy difference. The issue I have with these bases is when they try and tell you that you don’t need to prep the ground and can just throw it on the grass…

    All spas with integrated pumps reclaim the motor heat, most companies don’t even talk about it but as soon as the motors come on the heat build very quickly in the motor area and the ozone system (standard) draws the heat in through the ozone and injects the heated air into the water, You disconnect the heater on that Twilight and It will stay above 80 f from the motor heat.

  473. Reply
    admin September 10, 2017 at 2:43 pm

    West Coast there is not any info on, sorry but see if they do the 4 important things at least… Hand rolled self-supporting shell, good north American parts, full foam insulation and glued and clamped plumbing.

    Hot Springs, I would never put on my floor, they are one of the groups that are getting cheap parts made that just fit their spas.. they reliability of the parts is worse and they now have you on a hook for life because you can only get parts from them… good scenario to make big profits… A bad scenario for the owner.

    Master I like, great build quality, top end parts, clamped and glued plumbing, and hand rolled self-supporting shells, plus if you want to they do so many lines you can get anything from entry level right up to insane therapy spas like the twilight series.

  474. Reply
    admin September 10, 2017 at 2:35 pm

    all good easy to replace reliable parts.

  475. Reply
    admin September 8, 2017 at 7:21 pm

    Most of their stuff has the 4 things I like… not familiar with the model but the brand typically is well built.

  476. Reply
    admin September 8, 2017 at 3:47 pm

    There is really not a lot of great brands where you live, lots of stuff just like the Dynasty… big adverting and marketing but not spending the money to build a really great hot tub.

  477. Reply
    admin September 8, 2017 at 3:40 pm

    Hi Gina!

    You dodged a bullet there, we took one in on trade and it was a piece of junk.

    the strong are no better…

    best I could find is far away there is a Marquis dealer 2020 BEAVER AVENUEMONACA, PA, 15061724-728-8888

    and a Master dealer: East Coast Spas Inc.
    1424 Easton Road, Suite 300, Horsham, PA, 19040
    Phone: 732-823-8606
    ben@eastcoastspas.com
    http://www.eastcoastspas.com

  478. Reply
    admin September 7, 2017 at 3:17 pm

    Sundance which is the same group as Jacuzzi is not anywhere near my recommended list. They don’t hand roll the shells, they use proprietary parts, and they don’t fill the cavity with insulation… Typical of these Hot Tub companies that are owned by equity investment corporations… spend very little on the tub, spend lots on brand awareness and marketing and spin, and use inexpensive parts that only fit their tubs so the customer cant competitively shop replacement parts… This brand would never sit on my sales floor…

  479. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    sunrise is ok except the insulation, IPG is a buying group, not a manufacturer I think hydropool or sunrise build their line now. Coast again the cheap insualtion…

    dude in Toronto you have all the good ones, there are master, Marquis, and likely Artesian…

  480. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 4:16 pm

    Caldera Sundance and jacuzzi all suffer from the dreaded proprietary parts… cheap parts that just fit their spas so that they are guaranteed your parts business for ever… I would never ever have a spa that did not have the Balboa/ waterways parts.

    man, they are also charging you a fortune… these things are not rocket science… any handyman on site with a meter and a good dealer on the phone can diagnose and put parts in, esp if they are using the good parts.

    If you have a handyperson, or are one then buy a brand with a good oem parts list and a dealer you can get tech support from…

  481. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 4:12 pm

    Not up on thermos spa but 18 k is insane…. likely more like $12 from the look of it.

    But likely better than a Hot Springs… at least the Thermo has a good parts list that you can get replacements for anywhere.

    Salt water is the same as chlorine or bromine… it just makes the chlorine or bromine on board… its old tech and there are much better options…

  482. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 4:07 pm

    the viral video from Costco is a strong spa… https://youtu.be/vVpuTxjXq2o

    Nuff said

  483. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 4:06 pm

    dynasty I’m not a fan of, see this video of a dynasty we took on trade… https://youtu.be/RWFY5xQE5sg

    Maxx uses the inexpensive insulation systems, and not heard of Mira

  484. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 3:48 pm

    Yeah four winds had a lot of problems with the plastic shells, they were using good insulation and good parts but I would not personally buy anything that did not used a hand rolled self-supporting fiberglass shell we had 15 four winds shell failures in our area and if the shell goes you are screwed.

    buy the floor model.

  485. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 3:46 pm

    mixed Bag, the shell is a cheaper plastic backed shell that needs pedestal support to keep it from breaking, IMHO you just can not beat a good hand rolled fiberglass shell.

    the rest is good but the packs are stupid.

    If you get a spa with lots of the big therapy jets you can totally change the jetting in the whole spa easily and cheaply, the packs just limit the placement and cost a fortune to swap out and there is no real advantage.

    Ask your friend to do me a favor. there have been a lot of issues with bacteria behind the jet packs, you can buy bacteria test strips for $5 you run them on the wall behind the pack and it tells you if there is bacteria. I’m curious to see if they have fixed this issue.

  486. Reply
    admin September 6, 2017 at 2:26 pm

    Hi Rick

    The truth is all the brands you know by name are known because they spend a pile of money on branding and marketing which means they don’t spend enough on the hot tub and charge too much πŸ™‚

    You have a couple good independent service companies out there fixing spas, that means you don’t necessarily have to rely on local retailers.

    The truth is a good dealer is critical but a good dealer is not about how close they are to you. Great dealers are about strong communication and knowledge, the reality is most of what you need from a support standpoint is someone to talk you through teething issues… the actual service is easy on a spa using a good parts list and similarly, diagnosis is easy over the phone, then it’s a day or two to ship a part and any local handyman can put it in… the good spas are plug and play parts.

  487. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 4:13 pm

    Funny enough it’s the Only Watkins product I don’t dislike πŸ™‚ except it’s ugly as sin…

    see if you can find a healthy living its a new line built right and the arguably the nicest roto-mould out there right now.

  488. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    So celebrity is the entry level and I hope Marquis uses the same build quality through the lines.

    Performance it will be lower end with lots of the hi pressure low flow jets.

  489. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 3:41 pm

    Both spas use a proprietary parts list. so instead of spending the money on the top parts that really last, they have their own special little parts that just fit their spas so they can own you for life for replacements.

    There is a master dealer up there

    Alaska Spa & Bath Company
    1657 E. Dowling Road , Anchorage , AK, 99507
    Phone: 907-562-7727
    jrice@akstovespa.com

  490. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    Sure you can.

    The best would be expanded foam but that would cost you $400…

    or you could get industrial garbage bags and lightly wrap batons of fiberglass pink or roxull into batons, fit them around the spa but leave a good open area where the motors are.

  491. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 2:29 pm

    Hi Ed

    depends on the dealer. the reality is what makes a great dealer has nothing to do with proximity it has to do with communication and knowledge… the actual trouble shooting of a part is nothing and getting the part installed is easy for any local handyman, electrician, or independent hot tub service guy. 2 hours is nothing for a good dealer. I have customer hundreds of miles away who rate me 5 stars on google..

  492. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 2:26 pm

    Of the three Bullfrag I guess, at least the parts are compliant, and the insulation is good.

    Vita is middle of the road in my opinion, the steel frame I do not like, its a gimmick and noisy and usually needed if you are making a thin shell that needs supporting.

    The biggest problem I have is the reflective insulation systems, they are cheap and not very effective.

    There are a lot of different reflective surfaces but the truth is it does not change the fact that they are reflective insulation only dealing with radiant heat and the backing has minimal thermal mass.

    The problem with radiant insulation is that it is just not that good at containing heat in a system, especially when installed in a hot tub. Radiant barriers work well at bouncing heat away so in Florida they are good in attics to keep the heat out.

    There are enough studies out there to make a good solid scientific case against these radiant systems used to contain heat in a system and the reality is some hot tub company with some marketing spin is in no way changing that scientific data.

    copper, whiteboard, Bi pet foils they are all the same theory.. reflecting infrared spectrum back… Changing the reflective material has almost no effect because it’s not the quality of the reflector that is in question it is the science of reflective insulation systems being applicable to this application that is in question.

    http://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

  493. Reply
    admin September 5, 2017 at 2:17 pm

    Hi Chris

    Typically Master does not sell direct but there are some big dealers that sell “factory direct” or “warehouse direct” and who knows in their local area they may. The reality is as long as the price and the service are good who cares?

    Twilight and Clarity are vastly different spas, twilight is all about therapy massage, clarity is all about room and entertaining. Both are well built well insulated spas.

  494. Reply
    admin September 4, 2017 at 2:01 pm

    So Sundance and Arctic are both goofy proprietary parts, that takes them off my list right away, Arctic Don’t even clamp the plumbing lines and only uses a few inches of the expensive foam insulation instead of filling the cavity. They charge a ton for these tubs and frankly, I can’t see why…

    What I like about the Marquis and Masters is they spend the money on the hot tub. hand rolled shells, expensive parts list that you can source anywhere, lots of insulation, and glued and clamped plumbing… these four things make a big difference to long term durability.

  495. Reply
    admin September 1, 2017 at 4:00 pm

    Jetting and performance.

    look at the size of the jets, the little jets are inexpensive and put out a small volume of water under high pressure, they feel abrasive and don’t really have the volume of water to penetrate into deep muscle. The big 5″ jets are expensive and flow a lot more water, they really move muscle mass and require bigger pomps and in the case of Twilight they also let you divert entire pumps into one main seat… they are chalk and cheese Healthy living is like most companies top tubs, Twilight is just a massage monster…

  496. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 2:57 pm

    They both look like great tubs, this is getting into what is personally going to be good for you… I am unaware of the dealer standing. sorry!

  497. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 2:55 pm

    The Artesians and the Marquis are very similar and both would be reliable, the rest is personal… keep in mind the more large jets the more expensive the jet package, try and stay with fewer big pumps as oposed to many pumps, diverters that let you control flow the seats are good as well…

  498. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 2:23 pm

    Sorry for the delay been away πŸ™‚

    I quickly looked at Royal, not impressed, looks like they do good shell but old style mechanical packs, circ pumps, and perimeter insulation are all inexpensive ways to build spas, old school pressure side filtration as well… A lot of spin and misinformation to justify an inexpensive build.

    These guys sell artesian, and you are right By Master spa Factory in Fort Wayne…

  499. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 2:12 pm

    Like most brands, they have a couple of good thing like a nice component list and glued, and clamped joints but a few bad things like a cradle supported shell and a questionable insulation package. In the building industry, the Roxul insulation is meant to be 6β€³ thick and then a vapor barrier around it, not 2β€³ stuffed in a bag. The R-value is not great and these perimeter insulation systems, even when done with Expanded foam, are mid grade at best.

    The Artesian spas, in general, are well built but I have not seen a South seas yet.

  500. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 2:09 pm

    Viking has been around forever but never really became a serious player, the problem is unless you get big enough you can’t afford to build everything to the top spec. While the parts are good, I don’t like the plastic shell, I really want a good Hand rolled fibreglass shell. The pipes are not clamped, and the insulation is not my recommended system. all in all its what most spas are, some good, some bad and some ugly…

  501. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    This is really something outside of my expertise, it is more like building a pool than a portable hot tub.

    You could buy a tub, remove equipment and replumb it to a remote equipment site, best to get someone in locally to advise.

  502. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 1:35 pm

    Collingwood!!! spent my misguided youth there and Wassaga πŸ™‚

    thats old stomping grounds for me I can get you a service guy or two.

  503. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 1:31 pm

    Grab it fast, good price on a well-built spa.

  504. Reply
    admin August 30, 2017 at 1:30 pm

    In warm climates, there is still the advantage of the plumbing being supported which cuts down on leaks down the road, and there there is no disadvantage, in fact, the full foam systems usually have better motor cooling than the perimeter systems that trap the motor heat in the insulation envelope.

    South Seas I am unsure of, I haven’t seen he spa yet but I generally like Artesian… forget warranty some guys build it into the price of the hot tub some let you have the option of building it in… Typically an extra year should cost $300

  505. Reply
    admin August 29, 2017 at 5:03 pm

    I would lean towards the Artesian out of that group for sure.

  506. Reply
    admin August 29, 2017 at 4:58 pm

    Hey John Happy hot tubbing and thanks for the ping!

  507. Reply
    admin August 29, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    Chad listen to your doctor… if he says your hot tubbing days are over then I would heed the advice or seek other medical second opinions…

  508. Reply
    admin August 29, 2017 at 3:57 pm

    Hi Tisha

    Bad Timing I was away for a week at races with my boy πŸ™‚

    Get the Master, they are built better and efficient and use good parts.

  509. Reply
    admin August 29, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    Hi DK

    Sorry for the delay in responding, I have been away for a week or so.

    I can’t say I am a big fan of that brand. The older pressure side filtration systems and floor sections (self cleaning) were popular 20 years ago and most guys have stopped using this tech for a lot of good reasons.

    People love the sound of a β€œpressure filter” housing, heck it’s filtered under pressure! It must be good! The reality is almost all of the industry has moved away from this filtration system and moved on to β€œsuction side” filtration.

    There is one big difference between the two systems: On older β€œpressure filter” systems the water is filtered on the pressure side of the pump and on suction side filtration it is filtered on the suction side of the pump! That means that on this older pressure filter system the water goes through the pumps and through the equipment before it gets filtered!!! The accumulation of debris in the pumps and in the heater elements can cause damage and it just makes sense to filter that water prior to it going through the equipment! That is exactly why 95% of the industry abandoned these old pressure side filters decades ago and moved to suction side filtration, it filters the exact same amount of water but it does it before the debris goes through the heater and the pump.

    The massage seats on that model are from a lower end spa very little good jetting.

    The insulation is very inexpensive and all the information out there says these reflective foils are simply not good at Containing heat into a system, read this…

    he reality is those β€œself cleaning” floor suctions really didn’t do much! The truth is any debris small enough to get sucked into the floor suction typically was floating around in the water and caught by the filter system and anything heavy enough to actually sit in the floor is too big to go through the floor suction! Modern system have so many jets and so much water movement and are using floor jets to stir the floor so that the debris never settles in the floor. The other reason why 95% of the industry has abandoned floor suctions is it causes a weakness in the floor both from a structural standpoint and especially from an insulation standpoint!!!

  510. Reply
    admin August 29, 2017 at 3:04 pm

    The brand is well made and they are a good bunch of guys, as for the model Celebrity is a simply jetted entry performance level spa, lots of the small inexpensive low flow jets, it compares nicely with something like Clarity by Master.

  511. Reply
    admin August 26, 2017 at 12:49 pm

    hey Rob.

    on my phone so excuse the poor response.

    in you area there are tons… Master has a couple dealers and so does marquis. both good brands

  512. Reply
    admin August 26, 2017 at 12:47 pm

    the marquis or the master are good the big questiom is performance. both brand’s build good spas but marquis does not build anything that goes to the twilight spa level of performance… so if it’s a just a good hot tub with what every other brand bills as therapy massage then healthy living or vector 21 but if you really want top end performance the twilight

  513. Reply
    admin August 26, 2017 at 12:39 pm

    there are products that inhibit bio film formation that help reduce bacteria.

    dude don’t seconnd guess yet doctor. he says no more then stay away…

  514. Reply
    admin August 26, 2017 at 12:39 pm

    there are products that inhibit bio film formation that help reduce bacteria.

    dude don’t sex9nd guess yet doctor. he says no more then stay away…

  515. Reply
    admin August 26, 2017 at 12:38 pm

    never heard of it. there is some wrong information here

  516. Reply
    admin August 26, 2017 at 12:37 pm

    the best parts are also the most expensive. there is no reason to go to another parts list. the good ones work really well and yes they are far superior. the only reason to do a proprietary parts list is to save mo ey on the build and to guarantee profit down the road because they always have to come back to you for parts. it’s funny if you go to the discussion forums and look in the section where people ask for help you will find a disporortiante number of people look g for help with the brand’s with sub standard parts… what goid for the bottom line is often not what is best for the end user…

  517. Reply
    admin August 22, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    Wow, I searched your area and frankly, there are no super brands. those two are as good as anything around and the differences are primarily personal preference.

    There are however 2 good local service guys that do work on any spa brand, this can open you to buying out of the market and saving some money.

    The reality is a great dealer is more about strong communication and knowledge, the actual repair and is pretty straight forward and can be handled easily by a local repair center.

  518. Reply
    admin August 22, 2017 at 11:21 am

    One of the biggest costs in a hot tub is the shell. and it’s the single most crucial part and there s simply no better or more expensive way to do this than to build a hand rolled fiberglass acrylic shell with a Vinyl ester resin core. The ABS shells and rigidizing polymers like Bullfrog were all the rage 20 years ago and the reality is the failure rate on these shells were way higher. Most guys have gone back to the true path. Im also not a big fan of the jet packs, it makes it super expensive to change out jetting most tubs you can just swap each individual jet and really customise your jetting inexpensively.

  519. Reply
    admin August 22, 2017 at 11:05 am

    Hey Rachel

    It’s not your fault, it is a spinny world out there It does my head in the crazy shit you hear companies saying πŸ™‚

    I always look at the build cost, forget the marketing spin I want a guy that is spending the money on the hot tub!

    If you want great build go to the Beachcomber dealer here: or the Artesian dealer here.

    These are both good solid well build spa lines. The Artesian will have some higher end performance models than beachcomber available.

  520. Reply
    admin August 21, 2017 at 1:44 pm

    have a look at the Getaway hot tubs good build, nice looking and super well insulated.

    Crocker Sales Co. Inc. (ma)
    9 High Street, Woburn, MA, 01801
    Phone: 781-933-2006
    hk@crockersales.com
    http://www.crockersales.com

  521. Reply
    admin August 21, 2017 at 12:22 pm

    So First off Sundance and jacuzzi are part of the same group and both have the parts issue and frankly, they are expensive for what they are. Maxx is good parts but the insulation is inexpensive and low r-value.

    I looked around and there is not any that hit my list of really great hot tubs…

  522. Reply
    admin August 21, 2017 at 11:32 am

    Wow Parry Sound!

    I spent my childhood every summer there, I know tons of people from there πŸ™‚

    I am not a fan at all of the Jacuzzi or the Arctic. The first because of the goofy parts list and even the 470 jetting is mostly inexpensive small jets with only a few of the expensive high flow jets. A lot of the companies owned by big corporations spend so much on branding, marketing, spin that they can’t afford to build great spas.

    Arctic is again one I dislike… They spend the money on a good shell, but the parts are all inexpensive imports, they sure don’t spend the money on the foam insulation, they use like 1/4 of what a really well insulated hot tub uses and claim the big airspace is an insulator πŸ™‚ That’s bonkers… in a thermopane window we either create a vacuum between the panes so there is no air there or we inject the area with a higher r-value gas… no other industry would try and say that big are spaces are great insulators… it’s just inexpensive… hell they don’t even bother to clamp the jet pipes… I just can not see where they justify the price on this tub…

  523. Reply
    admin August 21, 2017 at 11:20 am

    The Celebrity is a Marquis, good solid tub with the right parts list and build method… my choice for sure out of that pile

  524. Reply
    admin August 21, 2017 at 11:17 am

    I always want more insulation, and really once you have a brand you know will stand up and last the rest is personal… if you don’t care about massage get an entry-level unit with good insulation

  525. Reply
    admin August 21, 2017 at 11:12 am

    Hey Ramiro

    Thanks for the nice words!

    Ya know there are really not a lot of tubs that can touch the Twilight for straight out massage value, the only one I have seen that is really on par from a performance standpoint is that dynasty I reviewed and the build quality was pants… The problem is finding the guys who build to the right standard doing the big 4 things than finding a spa that has two big pumps with two diverters and loads and loads of the big hi flow therapy jets… tough combo it is an expensive spa to build.

    The marquis and artesian in your area are built right but look at the jetting, none of them touch the twilight and their high-end starts getting into three and 4 pump systems which is just a gimmick… we know that big pumps are more efficient so we are always better off with 2 big pumps than 3 or 4…

  526. Reply
    admin August 20, 2017 at 3:13 pm

    Hey Robin.

    The Clarity is a newly designed shell and is one of the roomiest shells out there, there is just such good open usable space in that spa. The performance is upper mid and The Master stuff is built to a really high standard.

    The price is good too.

  527. Reply
    admin August 20, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    Hey

    never heard of them but there are lots of these little local guys. first thing… the numbers are B.S. there are not 3x 9hp pumps πŸ™‚ not enough electricity… and 8 layers of fiberglass???…LMFAO…

    When the first thing you hear is bullshit it usually does not get better…

    The artesian is a known quantity and works well.

  528. Reply
    admin August 20, 2017 at 1:40 pm

    The problem with a lot of the big known brands is that they are private equity investor owned and that means they are going to follow the best business model for profit. The best profit model is to build a mid quality hot tub and spend a lot of money on Branding, marketing, spin, gimmicks, bells, and whistles, use less expensive proprietary parts that only fit their spas and now they have you locked in for life because you can only get parts from them…

    Of those brands the Artesian for sure…

  529. Reply
    admin August 18, 2017 at 5:59 pm

    This opens it up a lot. as long as you have a good dealer that answers their phones and knows their stuff you can get a really good deal, buy out of your local market and save a ton… Great dealers are about great communication and knowledge not about proximity…

  530. Reply
    admin August 18, 2017 at 2:57 pm

    I would say the Artesian (south seas) is a better spa by a long shot, Arcticis great at the branding and marketing but the tub uses a lot of i9nexpensive parts, insulation and does not even clamp the plumbing lines.

    I would go with the full foam, they use an opencelled foam so leak detection is not a huge issue and they glue and clamp the plumbing lines so it much less likely to leak.

  531. Reply
    admin August 18, 2017 at 2:55 pm

    Man they each have pros and cons and none are nightmares. The cal uses some goofy old tech like pressure side filtration and questionable insulation system, the Caldera uses a goofy parts list which really locks you into them for life and the Bullfrog has a goofy pedestal supported shell

  532. Reply
    admin August 17, 2017 at 4:09 pm

    I would way rather 2 big pumps with a diverter than 3 pumps, read this article: http://www.hottubuniversity.com/small-pumps-large-pumps/

    The stereos are pretty reliable since they went Bluetooth but you are correct they are not the best value for the money there are better options although it is cool to have it integrated…

  533. Reply
    admin August 17, 2017 at 4:08 pm

    The pricing thing is tricky it’s a very messy product to buy, a lot of spin marketing and bullshit and not a lot of guys really spending the money on the build.

    The salt water systems are old tech that is being re-introduced it lets you get to around 1-3 ppm of chlorine or bromine. The better systems stand alone aftermarket like Spa Marvel or Aquafinesse which can get you to .5ppm (drinking water levels) see this video… http://www.hottubuniversity.com/chemical-free-hot-tubs/

    the older tubs sometimes ran on 40 amp lines check your breaker it likely needs to be 50 amp for modern tubs. I would advise getting an electrician (admin covers ass for future litigation πŸ™‚

  534. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    When you say “therapeutic purposes” do you mean the hot water therapy or specifically massage?

    Two groups near You can get a Marquis from http://www.petealewinepools.com/contact/ Well built upper mid end performance

    Twilight series or Legacy from Atlanta Spa & Leisure
    4305 Ne Expressway, Doraville, GA, 30340
    Phone: 770-939-8000
    hottub@bellsouth.net
    http://www.atlantaspa.com

    The twilight will be the top performer by a mile, the HL or Legacy will be on par with the Marquis. The clarity is great build but more like the entry level marquis.

  535. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 6:01 pm

    Hey Jay. The cal spa is an older pressure side filtration system, the more modern spas use suction side, the only real difference being suction side cleans the water before it goes through the pump! but all spas filter systems work well to remove debris and having suction side protects the equipment better. Both dealers that carried them here dropped them within a season or two.

    Not Impressed with the Arctic. Great shell, Inexpensive foreign sourced parts, No clamps on the plumbing, Inexpensive Insualtion system and man those cedar skirts!!! If you like the look of a cedar skirt in the showroom then dont buy a Cedar skirt… It dates your purchase, a good vynal skirt looks like a new spa forever.

  536. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    nope either are good, comes down to which you prefer.

  537. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    can’t decide, although I think the HS uses the baLboa control… on their 110v lines.. so Hot Springs.. I think… πŸ™‚

  538. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 12:21 pm

    I would go to the Artesian or Marquis. both well-built spas.

    The rest is personal preference so you need to decide what fits you better

  539. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 12:19 pm

    Thats a fairly heavy bather load so set filtration to around 3 or 4

    here is what we use for orientation….

    Tips for aquafinesse use

  540. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 12:13 pm

    Hi Eric.

    really good dealers can operate way outside of their immediate area with success. When I sell far away I have great service levels because it is mostly about intelligent communication, the actual meat and bones of on site parts replacement can be easily handled with a local hot tub guy, general handyperson, electrician etc…

    I would try and gauge the quality of support of the further away guys, a lot depends on your dependency level.. if you can use a meter and turn a wrench then most diagnoses can be done over the phone and parts replacement on the good OEM parts are easy as pie…

  541. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 12:08 pm

    I like:

    Any of the Master spas (Twilight, MP legends, Clarity, Legacy…
    Marquis
    Artesian
    beachcomber non hybrid models

  542. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 12:07 pm

    Not a Big Fan of Arctic. Look at where the money is spent… Shell Great, but everything else is inexpensive non-standard parts, no clamps and very little money spent on the insulation…

  543. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 11:57 am

    These are both well-built tubs, try them out because the reality is its personal preference from here on out…

  544. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 11:56 am

    The marquis or the artesian or the enterprise are all great spas. but bang for the buck that limited edition Enterp[rise spas are hard to beat right now… who has the best service?

  545. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 11:14 am

    Hi William

    it doesn’t matter so much if they have the local showroom, you care if they have the local customer care and support… they are all good spas but bang for the buck that Limited edition Enterprise is very hard to touch…

  546. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 11:12 am

    Sorry for the delay been busy and I’m a one man show :-0

    Expos are like anything good if they are done right, a shit show if they are not. Just like buying from a local dealer really good if it’s a great dealer a shit show if it’s not…

    If you are a handy person and don’t mind doing some of your own stuff If you have a good local Handyperson you can pay if the Expo dealer has a good local service guy then this can be a good option to buy a hot tub…

    But You can likely get as good of a deal from a good hi volume local guy especially if he is a warehouse direct operation where he has low overheads. In my Area, the expo pricing is very similar to my price but I am an Inigma.. after 30 years in this game, i sell a couple hundred spas from my backyard… Low overhead decent volume great service…

    The reality is great dealer support has way less to do with proximity than it does with great communication and knowledge. I am a better dealer at 1000 miles away than probably 80% of the local dealers because I am proactive in communication, organised in response, knowledgeable, and very careful with overheads…

    so to answer your question every purchase has the risk of having poor backup and support, for me I wouldn’t care about a local dealer just a good communicator because I would just get the part shipped to me, and put it in or get a local guy to put it in, if you do this the dealer should pay you the factory warranty portion of around $40-$50 USD.

  547. Reply
    admin August 16, 2017 at 11:03 am

    Stay away from high levels of bromine or chlorine… they are bad… aquafinesse lowers the level of chlorine or bromine from 3-5 ppm to 0.5ppm and you can use chlorine or bromine with it.

  548. Reply
    admin August 15, 2017 at 2:52 pm

    Marquis is a good spa better than the bullfrog IMO

  549. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:26 pm

    Hi Eric.

    They build a good shell but the rest is magic.

    The plumbing is not clamped, they manage to convince people that spending less and using less insulation is better than spending 4x more and filling the cavity it’s about r-10 vs R30 on a full foam spa and all the parts are the inexpensive overseas parts.

    they use a salt water system which runs 1-3 ppm chlorine or bromine which is a lot higher than the newer systems and the machine is $1300! and needs regular anode replacement.

  550. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:17 pm

    Hi, Eric.

    Sorry man, I’m busy with the real world πŸ™‚ this site is killing me!

    I don’t know about Tidal but Hydropool insulation system would make it a no go for me, and the old pressure side filtration systems and the sections in the floor are seriously old tech that 99% of the industry abandoned years ago and is now being rebranded as innovation… Here is a review on it. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/hydropool-hot-tub-review/

    I just shot a video of an Arctic spa, not released it yet but I am really not a fan of the line, they make a good shell but the parts are all inexpensive Chinese brands, the insulation is inexpensive and they don’t clamp the plumbing line… these guys market this spa as high end but I just don’t see the justification except to cover what must be a very expensive branding and marketing cost.

  551. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    Im not sure how good the performance of the Bullfrog warranty is but I have not heard bad things. I think they are over priced for what they are, Im not a fan of the jet packs, its innovation for a unique selling point more than for any real advantage and they have had a lot of problems… they also seem to shed dealers pretty fast , we had two guys carry and drop the line locally. The parts and insulation are good, the Shell I am not a fan of, it’s not strong enough to support its own weight like a good hand rolled fibreglass shell so it has to sit on pedestals. https://youtu.be/_T9DY6am_E0

  552. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:07 pm

    Man way too many variables there… you need a tech to go over it and advise.

  553. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:06 pm

    Man of that group the Marquis… good solid North American OEM parts list and they build them well. The other 2 have a parts list they had made just to fit their spas IMHO it’s done to cut the cost of production and lock you in so you cant source parts from anywhere but through them…

  554. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:04 pm

    πŸ™‚

    evolution is a Costco tub from a different manufacturer and I Don’t know why they call it evolution in Europe and Healthy living here… but yes it is the same great build quality, just done for European power grid and standards.

  555. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 9:02 pm

    The problem is no one talks about the real issues, it’s all the gimmicks and bells and whistles…

    all the brands I recommend have one 4 things in common… well-built shells, good parts list, good insulation and glued and clamped plumbing lines, Marquis is a good solid spa in all these respects.

  556. Reply
    admin August 14, 2017 at 8:52 pm

    That’s a good price, $9600 ($12500 cdn) is super cheap.

    great tub, great price hard to go wrong there

  557. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 3:21 pm

    I looked at the Vector 21 and it’s a goofy tub, nothing new just the same stuff rebranded for the sake of marketing. I hate pseudo innovation but at least it’s built right… Find out what brand of jets and controls the vector 21 uses, I always wondered if it was waterways or some off brand.

    volcanoes are again old tech that most guys have moved away from and it’s common for this old tech to resurface as innovation after a while. most companies got away from any fittings and plumbing under the floor. although i see they made a raised Chanel for the plumbing which is good, the down side is they are tripping hazards and always in the way.

    Performance wise i have no idea… never seen a vector 21 in action but if you can wet test them both send me you feedback!

  558. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    That’s a funny one but not unheard of.

    Big dealers will often have models from previous years or they might have bought off the factory stock list which sometimes had previous year stock and no there is no difference except some of the jets and they could be exchanged but I actually like the old rotors a little better πŸ™‚

    The warranty starts when you took delivery and really it makes little or no difference.

  559. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:18 pm

    if they build a tub how I know it should be built to last they love me there are several brands I recommend and all for the same reasons… they build how I like them built.

    ask your dealer for the line drawing that shows where the electrical should come up.

    wait until you have it installed and ask the installers what will work best for a lifter for your application, try and get an aluminium one.

    Enjoy your purchase!!!

  560. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:16 pm

    I would not expect any problems with a wood frame, and if you have termites then you want to address that anyway πŸ™‚

    A lot of jets is usually a gimmick.. the small jets cost $10 the big hi-flow therapy jets cost $40… so actually, a 40 jet tub with good jets would be much better than 100 little ones…

  561. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:14 pm

    Hi trisha

    be careful of salt systems… they just make chlorine or bromine and are 2-3 times higher chemical than a mineral salt system like Aquafinesse or Mineral Lux watch this video:

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxrbD7P7umA&w=560&h=315]

  562. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:12 pm

    Sooo… Jacuzzi, Sundance and Dimension 1 are all owned by the same group πŸ™‚ they are all okish but I hate the parts list… all goofy parts they have made to just fit their spa so that you can’t cross shop parts πŸ™‚ the D1 uses a more compliant parts list but not the top ones.

    Don’t Know what Master Asia is… unless you mean a Master dealer and an Asia dealer if you have a Master dealer go there…

  563. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:09 pm

    these are the best ones I have found but not sure where you can get them and Imm afraid my shipping might kill you… πŸ™‚

    https://hottubuniverse.myshopify.com/collections/accessories/products/weighted-booster-seat-lounger-pillow

  564. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:08 pm

    The Balance 7 is a new design and I love the layout… loads of open space which is really what you want in a water environment. It’s built well and has all the main things… Hand-rolled self-supporting fibreglass shell with a vinyl ester resin core, Great parts list, glued and clamped plumbing lines and a good full foam insulation system with good waste heat recovery.

  565. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:05 pm

    Yeah, it’s a big old country man and a lot of brands out there. The reality is most retailers don’t know a lot about hot tubs. They know how to regurgitate the pitch for the brand they carry but that does not mean they have a great understanding of what really makes a great sustainable hot tub…

    There are some big dealers down in the US doing these Expo sales and if you have a good local service guy it can be a good option. The problem in your area is there are a lot of the big fancy marketing brands and some small regional stuff but it’s thin on the ground for really well built hot tubs.

  566. Reply
    admin August 9, 2017 at 12:02 pm

    Man, they all suffer from either proprietary parts or bead insulation systems. I looked around the area and there are none that I love.

    You do however have an independent that does service of all brands so buying from a good dealer out of market might be viable. The reality is a great dealer has nothing to do with proximity it has to do with great communication and knowledge. The actual service part can be done through any handyman and parts only take a day or two to ship on the good brands with a compliant parts list.

  567. Reply
    admin August 8, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    Maxx is middle of the road, the insulation is inexpensive and really sub par.

    I like Beachcomber from a build standpoint and a parts list and insulation but the Hybrid is old tech rebranded as innovation… when I sold spas in the 80’s most tubs had external pump systems and 90+% of the industry moved away from it for a lot for very good reasons, and then Beachcomber rebranded it as “hybrid”

    Full Foam systems external pumps (mid grade system)

    Spas that use this system: Beachcomber, Hydrolux, Sansi.

    The oldest system is a full foam system with the motors out side of the spa usually under a step .It is not very widely used anymore because of the loss of reclaimed motor heat and the risk of equipment damage on power outages. It uses the same amount of insulation as a full foam with internal pumps except in the corners where the foam is already the thickest. on the other 90% of the hot tub it is the same amount as a full foam with internal pumps.

    Although marketed as a new “Hybrid technology” it’s actually the opposite. Hybrid means a mixing of two or more technologies to get a the best of both systems. this system simply insulated the hell out of the shell and totally ignore the waste heat from the motors and the fact that it pumps all of its hot water outside the insulation envelope of the hot tub.

    The Pitch
    The sales pitch centres on the amount of foam. It’s a great easy pitch, you simply say it has the most foam so, therefore, the best heat retention and therefore the best system. But it ignores 3 vital flaws…

    You lose all the waste heat from the motors! this is huge, a spa with a good waste heat recovery system can maintain a temperature of between 90 and 905 degrees Fahrenheit with the heater disconnected just of the heat recovered from the motor!
    You pump all you heated water outside of the heat envelope of the hot tub! This is insane… It s akin to running your plumbing through the nearest snow bank in the winter, the heat loss is huge.
    If the power goes out you have an almost immediate risk of equipment freeze up because the equipment is in a virtually uninsulated area.

    The bottom line is these systems only have a tiny amount more of insulation in the bottom corners where the insulation is already thicker than 90% of the rest of the spa. The added value of this tiny bit of extra insulation is negligible while the wasted motor heat and heat loss from the water leaving the insulated area and freeze up risk is huge.

    The Verdict
    Mid Price to manufacture.
    Good r value and insulation on shell but offset with almost no equipment insulation.
    Zero motor waste heat recovery.
    High freeze up risk during power outages.
    Hot water is pumped through almost 3 feet of pipe and equipment that has virtually no insulation.

  568. Reply
    admin August 4, 2017 at 4:01 pm

    So the Bullfrog is good insulation, good parts, but a thin cradle supported shell and the jet packs really limit where the jets can go and where a regular spa can change out every individual jet inexpensively you need to change the whole pack out at 10x the price.

    Maxx is good except the insulation is inexpensive and nowhere near the R value of a good expanded foam system.

    Vita has a good parts list but again not much money spent on the insulation… reflective systems just are not that good at containing heat into a system. http://www.hottubuniversity.com/reflective-mylar-insualtion-systems/

  569. Reply
    admin August 2, 2017 at 2:01 pm

    no there is not it is designed to warn you how long you have been ion the spa.

  570. Reply
    admin August 2, 2017 at 2:01 pm

    I am not a fan of the low flow filter systems.

    The Pitch is that they are small efficient pumps that clean your water 24 hrs. a day and are quiet and efficient to run.

    It’s usually about a $500 upgrade and in my opinion, they are not as good a the alternative which is a high flow circ system.

    Although they use a small amount of power they run 24hrs a day whereas the high flow pump only has to run about 4 hrs a day to clean the same amount of water both systems use similar amount a power per day.
    They wear out more quickly because they run all the time.
    The tiny energy savings against the increased cost of replacement parts make them more expensive over the long run.
    They can only filter so much water a day. if you have a heavy bather load or a party or busy weekend of hot tubbing it can take them a while to recover whereas with a high flow system you can change how many hours the pump runs! So after a party you can throw it on 24 hr mode (or any other amount) and it will filter up to 6 times more water than a circ pump can over the 24hr period.
    Circ pumps are also low flow and this means you need to be very regimented with filter cleaning, if the filter gets too dirty they go into flow error easily, the hi flow systems don’t unless you are truly negligent.
    The new anti vibration mounting systems make the good hi flow 2-speed pumps almost as quiet as the Hush pumps, there is very little difference.
    I’m not a fan I think they are sold to add margin into a deal or added value perception. It’s all marketing spin.

  571. Reply
    admin August 2, 2017 at 1:57 pm

    So Sundance is owned by the group that owns Jacuzzi and suffers from the same proprietary parts issues. That alone would remove any possibility for me, I would never put that on my sales floor because I would not expose myself or my customers to a lesser quality parts list that has very limited availability with only one place to buy the part, the Balbo system is just so much better than the others.

    Performance wise the 2 spas are not even in the same Ballpark, the Chelsea is lots of small inexpensive low flow hi pressure jets (the small ones) and only a couple of the Hi end therapy massage jets whereas the Twilight is all Hi end jets, these spas are chalk and cheese.

    I use Aquafinesse. yep $40 a month but so easy and so reliable and so safe healthy. and trust me over the long term it’s no more expensive than the on board systems. every week I balance alkalinity to the top of ok and the ph to the bottom of ok and add the AF and try and burn 3 chlorine tabs a week. but there are lots of good systems for low chemicals, see your local dealer.

    Its

  572. Reply
    admin August 2, 2017 at 1:46 pm

    Never heard of them, but an air blower? usually, you only see those on the cheap stuff hardly anyone uses them anymore.

  573. Reply
    admin August 1, 2017 at 1:54 pm

    Nordic bang for the buck is a good tub.

  574. Reply
    admin July 29, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    The one In Tampa has nowhere near enough insulation, Neither does that Maxx… that blue max is inexpensive and nowhere near the R value of a good full foam.

    I looked around your area and there is not any great brands but…

    You do have 2 independent guys there that do service on all brands so look further afield…

  575. Reply
    admin July 29, 2017 at 4:48 pm

    Salt systems are old technology that some companies are resurrecting, I’m not a fan, it’s not as easy or as low chemical as the aftermarket systems by a long shot watch this video….

    I’m not really a Big fan of any of those for different reasons. but none would go on my sales floor.

    try these guys: look at the twilight spas

    Leisure Works
    41430 Grand River Ave, Ste A, Novi, MI, 48375
    Phone: 248-348-7727
    leisureworksaa@aol.com

  576. Reply
    admin July 27, 2017 at 3:14 pm

    I do not like the plastic shells with the pedestal supports, I have seen too many fail over the years and most guys have moved away from this tech.